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Zool
Mar 21, 2005

The motard rap
for all my riders
at the track
Dirt hardpacked
corner workers better
step back
Talk about riding at the track, and post up some photos.

Lots of supermotards out at the track today...


Spiffness and his KTM, looking cool as ever.


Me getting a little knee down...



And doing a little dance to celebrate.



That's more like it.

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FlerpNerpin
Apr 17, 2006


A couple more off the roll because, why not...

Learned a few more things out there on my 3rd track day with the Katoom, especially around braking. I also learned that the textile pants I wear too restrictive and I can't position my knee's the way I want to around this track. Gotta get new pants to solve this little annoyance.


Turn 11


There, I fixed it


Mentally, I'm just repeating the theme song from On Any Sunday




Zool got better at the knee down thing as the day went on


I need to get pants with sliders.


Click here for the full 768x1024 image.

The astute reader will notice a few things in this picture, 1) freshly used knee sliders are cool, 2) Marks on the buckles from the boot sliding are even cooler, and 3) a Husky 450 SMR WILL burn the ever loving poo poo out of your inner right boot.

Some information about our local haunt:

http://www.pacificgp.com/

FlerpNerpin fucked around with this message at 03:08 on Oct 5, 2009

Zool
Mar 21, 2005

The motard rap
for all my riders
at the track
Dirt hardpacked
corner workers better
step back
The weather was great, but because it rained the day before the dirt section was a mud pit (and closed).

I finished breaking a bark buster that I twisted last week. I'm going to rig up a heat shield to protect my boot from the pipe, and figure out some way to repair my boot. I have three days of riding on these boots, so I'm not ready to throw them away just yet.

Z3n
Jul 21, 2007

I think the point is Z3n is a space cowboy on the edge of a frontier unknown to man, he's out there pushing the limits, trail braking into the abyss. Finding out where the edge of the razor is, turning to face the darkness and revving his 690 into it's vast gaze. You gotta live this to learn it bro.
And I though I abused the poo poo out of my boots, drat.

Looks like you guys had quite a bit of fun out there. :)

lokigoesrawr
Nov 18, 2004

roar.
Rode the poo poo out of my EX250, leaning off on turns, occasionally scraping odd parts at speed getting the poo poo scared out of me at my first trackday, NESBA @ VIR-Full, 10/19/2009.

Spent the entire day drenched in adrenaline. Had the most amazing time. Also, tried not to freak out when people pass you with 90mph speed differentials 3 feet away on straights (or "straights" as the case may be).


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xEUDoZREqh8
I'm the guy 2 positions ahead of camera (white upper suit and helmet), when he catches up to the traffic. I think I scraped crap a few times in those last two laps, following the control rider. Camera guy's apexing way early seems to have led to a wheel off the ground. Video starts at the back straight after T11a, crash at T4.



lokigoesrawr fucked around with this message at 08:44 on Oct 20, 2009

T-Square
May 14, 2009

I just got back from(an 18 hour drive back to Wisconsin)Daytona International Speedway, where I finished 4th overall in the Amateur Lightweight Grand Prix class. I was running 4th in my next race, Lightweight Superbike, but the bike started stuttering and hesitating when rolling on power, so I pulled off with about a lap to go :(. I'm extremely happy with my 4th place finish, that's the best I've ever done so far in my 2 years of racing.

If you're in the Florida area (or willing to drive from all the way across the country) you need to ride this track. The bankings are so god-drat rediculous, and the outright speeds you can achieve are awesome.

A lot of riders were a little bit too eager, as they were going all out on the first laps of their races, and the unusually cold weather made for a cold track-lots of high-sides on first laps coming out of the International Horseshoe.

Unfortunately, as I went to put my GoPro camera on the bike, I opened it up and realized my only memory card was 18 hours north :(

I too, melted the poo poo out of my boot on the Sv650's exhaust. Theres actually a small hole on the inside heel.

Later in the week, I'll upload some (hopefully) awesome pictures, once all the camera guys put their stuff on their websites.

Z3n
Jul 21, 2007

I think the point is Z3n is a space cowboy on the edge of a frontier unknown to man, he's out there pushing the limits, trail braking into the abyss. Finding out where the edge of the razor is, turning to face the darkness and revving his 690 into it's vast gaze. You gotta live this to learn it bro.
Congrats on 4th place! How big was the field?


It looks like I'm going to sell my SV and pick up a supermoto...I can't afford to roadrace next year :(

Net Boners
Mar 2, 2002

did you go to town with hot wheel tracks, Joan Quinn?

lokigoesrawr posted:

Rode the poo poo out of my EX250, leaning off on turns, occasionally scraping odd parts at speed getting the poo poo scared out of me at my first trackday, NESBA @ VIR-Full, 10/19/2009.

Spent the entire day drenched in adrenaline. Had the most amazing time. Also, tried not to freak out when people pass you with 90mph speed differentials 3 feet away on straights (or "straights" as the case may be).


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xEUDoZREqh8
I'm the guy 2 positions ahead of camera (white upper suit and helmet), when he catches up to the traffic. I think I scraped crap a few times in those last two laps, following the control rider. Camera guy's apexing way early seems to have led to a wheel off the ground. Video starts at the back straight after T11a, crash at T4.





What were you doing in I group?

lokigoesrawr
Nov 18, 2004

roar.

Blakeem bin Bustin posted:

What were you doing in I group?

hahahah whoooops, not sure why I thought that was me :v:

FuzzyWuzzyBear
Sep 8, 2003

I've done trackdays in cars before and was wondering how different it is on a bike. I know that you don't have an instructor showing you the line, so are there more doofuses around in the novice class that are just going wherever they want?

Z3n
Jul 21, 2007

I think the point is Z3n is a space cowboy on the edge of a frontier unknown to man, he's out there pushing the limits, trail braking into the abyss. Finding out where the edge of the razor is, turning to face the darkness and revving his 690 into it's vast gaze. You gotta live this to learn it bro.

FuzzyWuzzyBear posted:

I've done trackdays in cars before and was wondering how different it is on a bike. I know that you don't have an instructor showing you the line, so are there more doofuses around in the novice class that are just going wherever they want?

It's a bit different. You'll still get some sighting laps in the first session in the morning with an instructor playing follow the leader, showing you where to get on and off the track, etc. Most trackday providers don't allow inside passing on motorcycles in the novice group. Some will specify that you can only pass on straights.

Either way, you don't really have much to worry about...most people in the novice group is too concerned about being rude/impolite/getting in an accident to do anything stupid. And if you do find someone who's passing like a douche, make a note of their bike and it's colors and their leathers/helmet and tell a control rider. They're there to keep you safe and if you politely point out that someone was passing like a jerk they'll go and talk to him to make sure the track stays safe for everyone. Idiot passing in the C group is really looked down on.

Also, there's not really "one good line" on a motorcycle. Depending on your speed, your bike, and your riding style, the ideal line for your bike is going to change. So while an instructor can offer you some pointers, you've got to take matters into your own hands a bit and experiment with it to get on a line that works for you. And then it'll change when you get faster.


C group tends to turn into a train of riders who are afraid to pass, so if you get caught up in a group and can't comfortably get around them, pit for 30-45 seconds and find a hole in the groups of riders.

T-Square
May 14, 2009

Z3n posted:

Congrats on 4th place! How big was the field?


It looks like I'm going to sell my SV and pick up a supermoto...I can't afford to roadrace next year :(

I believe it was about 9 or 10 or something. No where near the grid sizes you get to play with. I was honestly expecting more with it being in Florida. I understand not a lot of people racing in Wisconsin, but I guess it's just the CCS club. The original grid was like 13-14 but one too many people crashed that morning.

And too bad about not being able to race next year :(

Z3n
Jul 21, 2007

I think the point is Z3n is a space cowboy on the edge of a frontier unknown to man, he's out there pushing the limits, trail braking into the abyss. Finding out where the edge of the razor is, turning to face the darkness and revving his 690 into it's vast gaze. You gotta live this to learn it bro.

T-Square posted:

I believe it was about 9 or 10 or something. No where near the grid sizes you get to play with. I was honestly expecting more with it being in Florida. I understand not a lot of people racing in Wisconsin, but I guess it's just the CCS club. The original grid was like 13-14 but one too many people crashed that morning.

And too bad about not being able to race next year :(

Honestly, this has been kind of a poo poo year for grid sizes period. The grids shrank from 50+ down to mid 20s by the end of the season as people dropped out as they ran out of money. Hopefully in the next few years things will pick up again.

I'm hoping that I can go out and do some supermoto racing, it's a lot cheaper and tracktime is a lot cheaper, so it's not the end of the world :)

NitroSpazzz
Dec 9, 2006

You don't need style when you've got strength!


I'm looking at signing up for the January cornerspin school (http://www.cornerspeed.net/spin.html) and possibly talking my Dad into joining me. Until that time I am just enjoying the twisties in the area and making weekly trips to Deals Gap to work on body position and smooth inputs.

I've been making use of the photographers along the route to see where I can improve. Looking at the shots my position is better than before but I'm sure there is more room for improvement. Below are a few links from killboy from this past weekend, use the next arrow and each link has a couple shots per pass.
http://tinyurl.com/yg5jzo5
http://tinyurl.com/ykuhmty
http://tinyurl.com/ykkqo6n
http://tinyurl.com/yl78lzc
The main thing that looks a bit off is it looks like I'm kind of twisted on the bike, think I need to get my upper body over a bit more. Also not sure about the foot position. Hoping to do a road course track day sometime in the spring and would like to have body position somewhat figured out by then.

Z3n
Jul 21, 2007

I think the point is Z3n is a space cowboy on the edge of a frontier unknown to man, he's out there pushing the limits, trail braking into the abyss. Finding out where the edge of the razor is, turning to face the darkness and revving his 690 into it's vast gaze. You gotta live this to learn it bro.

NitroSpazzz posted:

I'm looking at signing up for the January cornerspin school (http://www.cornerspeed.net/spin.html) and possibly talking my Dad into joining me. Until that time I am just enjoying the twisties in the area and making weekly trips to Deals Gap to work on body position and smooth inputs.

I've been making use of the photographers along the route to see where I can improve. Looking at the shots my position is better than before but I'm sure there is more room for improvement. Below are a few links from killboy from this past weekend, use the next arrow and each link has a couple shots per pass.
http://tinyurl.com/yg5jzo5
http://tinyurl.com/ykuhmty
http://tinyurl.com/ykkqo6n
http://tinyurl.com/yl78lzc
The main thing that looks a bit off is it looks like I'm kind of twisted on the bike, think I need to get my upper body over a bit more. Also not sure about the foot position. Hoping to do a road course track day sometime in the spring and would like to have body position somewhat figured out by then.

Body positioning is something that everyone focuses on but isn't really that important. You'll see a lot more gains from working on proper throttle control, entry speed, and consistency in your braking markers, turn in, and apexes.

If you've got your balls of your feet on the pegs and your upper body is on the inside of the motorcycle, you're doing fine and should be focusing instead on lines and throttle application. At the moment, you're all rear end and no shoulders, so if you want to work on hanging off, shift one rear end cheek to the inside and focus instead on moving your upper body off the bike. Your rear end isn't that heavy, your shoulders and head are.

You look fine in those pictures, though, besides the silliness of hanging off like crazy when you're just not going that fast. Body positioning is pretty irrelevant unless you're dragging hard parts, so find a position to the inside of the bike where you can comfortable lock your body into the bike, keep your weight off the bars, and be happy with that. Once you start dragging hard parts, then it's time to look at your lines, and once you get your lines up to par and you start dragging hard parts again, it's time to start addressing body positioning.

Z3n fucked around with this message at 22:29 on Oct 21, 2009

TheUltimateCool
Dec 2, 2008
Well, I did my first trackday at Nashville Superspeedway two weeks ago, and as I posted in a different thread, it was the most fun I've had since I learned to ride. Nashville has an infield road course including a couple different low-speed, 180 degree turns, a short straight, a complex called the "bus stop", and a long sweeper leading onto the front NASCAR banking. I really enjoyed it - the front banking was long enough to get the SV nearly topped out.

After a few sessions, I did scrape my inside peg on the first of the low speed "u-turns", so I tried to hang off more. Looks okay to me (I'd appreciate criticism, though) and definitely felt fun. Here's the first corner after the front straight:



I actually did not get my knee down at all during the day, but per instructions from the control riders, I wasn't focusing on that.

Here's a lap under caution, note the 1098S behind me:



And that same Ducati, one session later:

Zool
Mar 21, 2005

The motard rap
for all my riders
at the track
Dirt hardpacked
corner workers better
step back

Z3n posted:

I'm hoping that I can go out and do some supermoto racing, it's a lot cheaper and tracktime is a lot cheaper, so it's not the end of the world :)

:woop: Maybe we can meet up for a race in Oregon next summer.

Z3n
Jul 21, 2007

I think the point is Z3n is a space cowboy on the edge of a frontier unknown to man, he's out there pushing the limits, trail braking into the abyss. Finding out where the edge of the razor is, turning to face the darkness and revving his 690 into it's vast gaze. You gotta live this to learn it bro.

Zool posted:

:woop: Maybe we can meet up for a race in Oregon next summer.

That's the hope. Maybe I'll even trek all the way to Seattle to race. I went to miller just to ride, after all :)

UltimateCool, try tucking your inside elbow in tighter to your body and more downwards. It'll drop your upper body down more and allow you to rest your outside elbow/arm on the tank for more support.

Zenaida
Nov 13, 2004

TheUltimateCool posted:

Here's a lap under caution, note the 1098S behind me:


Love the angry eyebrows.

TheUltimateCool
Dec 2, 2008
Thanks! None of my friends who saw those pictures caught that.

Z3n - I'll give that a shot. It sucks that the track bug hit me right at the beginning of winter here in TN.

Saga
Aug 17, 2009

FuzzyWuzzyBear posted:

I've done trackdays in cars before and was wondering how different it is on a bike. I know that you don't have an instructor showing you the line, so are there more doofuses around in the novice class that are just going wherever they want?

A lot more fun. I've done 4 car track days (2 in road cars, 2 in a Lotus 7 kit), and the cars are basically pretty boring. Slow, limited selection of lines, and (being cars) pretty one-dimensional. In my experience, car people are also almost uniformly unfriendly - there's no shared "biker" thing going on.

The only benefit is that, where I am at least, they're actually cheaper to do, and of course if it's raining or snowing you can still go out (providing they don't close the track) without risking your collar bone and bike (I don't bother doing bike days if it rains - I figure I can crash on the street with those grip levels and save driving to the track to do it). Plus, if you have a thing about lurid oversteer, it's a lot easier in the car.

You do actually typically have sighting laps with the riding marshalls at the start of the day. Real problem is that people don't keep up with the marshall, so only about 3 people are actually following them! And most organisers will put cones up for braking, apex and corner out.

You are more likely to get Mr or Mrs 10-different-lines-in-one-corner in the novice group, but there's usually only one or two of those people who are _really_ scary. Then again in the fast group you will sometimes get people who think they're in a race and will do anything, including running into you, to prove their personal riding superiority (haven't experienced it, but I've watched it and seen the smashed fairings/scuffed paint/clouds of smoke from the kitty litter).

In practice, the biggest issue as Z3N said is probably that people are often too polite and won't put in a fair pass on clearly slower riders. You can easily end up with dangerous 10-bike tailbacks of people on different lines, at different speeds.

2ndclasscitizen
Jan 2, 2009

by Y Kant Ozma Post
I had my CBR400 trackbike out for the first time on Wednesday at Oran Park. Once I drained the tank, got some fresh juice into it and gave it a good rev to clear the plugs it ran really well. On the hot track the Diablos stuck like poo poo to a blanket, and it handles really well. drat small though, and I was finding it really hard to shift. It was 35 degrees on the day, I came in after 3 sessions at around 1pm, got out of my leathers and had to sit down because I felt really light headed and thought I was going to pass out. No photogs on the day unfortunately, but a guy in my group had his camera going and was behind me for a little bit. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aZRmt-i_DL0#t=3m50s I was going quite a bit slower than I thought, but my body positioning looks alright.

Saga
Aug 17, 2009

2ndclasscitizen posted:

I had my CBR400 trackbike out for the first time on Wednesday at Oran Park. Once I drained the tank, got some fresh juice into it and gave it a good rev to clear the plugs it ran really well. On the hot track the Diablos stuck like poo poo to a blanket, and it handles really well. drat small though, and I was finding it really hard to shift. It was 35 degrees on the day, I came in after 3 sessions at around 1pm, got out of my leathers and had to sit down because I felt really light headed and thought I was going to pass out. No photogs on the day unfortunately, but a guy in my group had his camera going and was behind me for a little bit. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aZRmt-i_DL0#t=3m50s I was going quite a bit slower than I thought, but my body positioning looks alright.

I run one of those too... someone's old race bike with a CBR6 shock on it and lots of dodgy home-made fairing brackets.

Don't have problems with the shifting myself, but I think they take a little bit of time to get used to if you're coming off something big and more modern. My first time out was pretty painful (including running out of petrol - mine's v. thirsty on track...), but the second time out was really funny - unintentional knee/toe down everywhere funny.

It can really deliver on corner speed, but you definitely feel the 1989 geometry on mine - like it doesn't turn in as well as it should given how much speed you can carry through the corner. I borrowed my mate's '929 for a session and actually found it easier to turn in accurately - but so comparatively huge it was like I was doing a trackday on horseback. It felt a foot wider at the frame spars and a foot higher off the ground, although I'm sure it's nothing like that much.

Saga fucked around with this message at 14:24 on Oct 23, 2009

2ndclasscitizen
Jan 2, 2009

by Y Kant Ozma Post

Saga posted:

Don't have problems with the shifting myself, but I think they take a little bit of time to get used to if you're coming off something big and more modern.

I was finding hard to shift because it's so small. My leg was getting locked right into position with my feet back on the pegs.

Saga posted:

including running out of petrol - mine's v. thirsty on track

Yeah, so's mine. Worse than my GSXR1000. Though it's probably because I'm actually giving it full throttle a lot more than I was on the Thou.

Z3n
Jul 21, 2007

I think the point is Z3n is a space cowboy on the edge of a frontier unknown to man, he's out there pushing the limits, trail braking into the abyss. Finding out where the edge of the razor is, turning to face the darkness and revving his 690 into it's vast gaze. You gotta live this to learn it bro.

2ndclasscitizen posted:

I had my CBR400 trackbike out for the first time on Wednesday at Oran Park. Once I drained the tank, got some fresh juice into it and gave it a good rev to clear the plugs it ran really well. On the hot track the Diablos stuck like poo poo to a blanket, and it handles really well. drat small though, and I was finding it really hard to shift. It was 35 degrees on the day, I came in after 3 sessions at around 1pm, got out of my leathers and had to sit down because I felt really light headed and thought I was going to pass out. No photogs on the day unfortunately, but a guy in my group had his camera going and was behind me for a little bit. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aZRmt-i_DL0#t=3m50s I was going quite a bit slower than I thought, but my body positioning looks alright.

I'll just chime in here again...you're riding kinda crossed up. When you move into the corners you shift your rear end off the seat but your shoulders don't move at all. As far as hanging off is concerned, your rear end is almost irrelevant, one cheek off the seat or even half a cheek off the seat is all that's needed. What's really important is getting your upper body off to the inside of the bike. You can hang your rear end completely off the seat but all that'll end up doing is forcing your shoulders to the outside of the corner, and it's not moving a significant amount of weight to the inside of the corner.

If you instead lock your lower body into the bike as best you can, and then lean your upper body so that your chin is over the inside clipon, you'll really help improve cornering clearance, especially when riding an older bike. This picture of me on the CB200 is an exaggeration of the technique because of how little cornering clearance that bike has, I'm off the bike as absolutely far as I can be. Shoulders off, chin over the inside grip, rear end off as far as it can go.



Here's how the technique translates out on a modern bike...I've got a little more than one rear end cheek off the seat (I've got too much rear end off the seat, honestly) and my chin is essentially right over the inside clipon with my inside elbow tucked in to my chest and pointing straight down, rather than out. My shoulders could use to be off the bike more, with my rear end on the seat more, but it's fairly decent. I know that I'm low on the bike because my outer arm is resting on the tank to help me keep my weight off the bars. Sorry about the watermark, this picture is from about 2 years ago.

2ndclasscitizen
Jan 2, 2009

by Y Kant Ozma Post
Ta for the feedback!

4/20 NEVER FORGET
Dec 2, 2002

NEVER FORGET OK
Fun Shoe

Zool posted:

:woop: Maybe we can meet up for a race in Oregon next summer.

If you guys ever hit up Portland International or ORP for a race or trackday you gotta let me know. I can't race but if it's for a trackday I am there.

Arcteryx Anarchist
Sep 15, 2007

Fun Shoe
This guy had the best tape job at the track today



Zool
Mar 21, 2005

The motard rap
for all my riders
at the track
Dirt hardpacked
corner workers better
step back
I was just digging through some photos from my last track day, and found a sequence of me tripling the whoop section!





I can't even do a double

Zool
Mar 21, 2005

The motard rap
for all my riders
at the track
Dirt hardpacked
corner workers better
step back
I went to the track this morning for a one hour SM practice session. It was wet, and started raining pretty good a 1/2 hour in.

I thought I was pretty cool power sliding out of turn 3. It wasn't as cool the next lap when as I straightened out and got on the throttle, and the front wheel started to lift; the rear spun up, then the weight transfer to the front broke it loose too. I managed to tuck the front, on the throttle, halfway down the back straight.

I did the same thing on the front straight a few laps later.

Oh yeah, my new leathers held up great.

lokigoesrawr
Nov 18, 2004

roar.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GwcPC6AX0tA

Did a trackday at Jennings, FL on my new F4i and ended up in an off-road excursion. I was being a dumbass with disregard for the apex or some sort of line. :v:

Video has 3 laps, then a crash. Sync'd and overlayed dashcam & asscam. Any sort of input or ridicule welcome.

MrKatharsis
Nov 29, 2003

feel the bern
I'd love to come tailgate and cheer you on at Jennings. I've been there a couple times and I love it.

Z3n
Jul 21, 2007

I think the point is Z3n is a space cowboy on the edge of a frontier unknown to man, he's out there pushing the limits, trail braking into the abyss. Finding out where the edge of the razor is, turning to face the darkness and revving his 690 into it's vast gaze. You gotta live this to learn it bro.

lokigoesrawr posted:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GwcPC6AX0tA

Did a trackday at Jennings, FL on my new F4i and ended up in an off-road excursion. I was being a dumbass with disregard for the apex or some sort of line. :v:

Video has 3 laps, then a crash. Sync'd and overlayed dashcam & asscam. Any sort of input or ridicule welcome.

God that sync'd overlay makes my head hurt sometimes. Lotta :words: on this one.

Comments, with the understanding that I haven't ridden this track before.

You rarely apex up against the inside of the track. You're spending most of your time in the no mans land about 5-8 feet away from the inside curbing. Your crash wouldn't have happened if you'd committed more, turned the bike in harder, and actually made it to the inside of the track. If you had actually apexed the corner up against the curbing, then you would have a bunch of buffer room so when you got in hot you wouldn't have run off the track, just used up that buffer zone that you had.

In the same vein, you shouldn't be running out to the curbing if you don't absolutely have to. Use as much track as you need to use, but don't use it just because it's there. Having more track means you can carry more speed or have more of a safety buffer.

Here's a video showing exactly what I'm talking about. I managed a decent corner at about :26. I'm on the bike directly in front of the camera bike at that point.

http://www.vimeo.com/4892630 Tight up against the corner at the apex, and then drifting as wide as I needed to finish the corner, which didn't happen to be out to the curbing.


You spend a lot of time holding even on the throttle, just holding speed and RPM. When you're upright, you should always be either pinned or on the brakes. There's no reason to be holding the bike at 8k RPM down a straight. Even if you find yourself overbraking and crawling through a corner, it's ok. You need to get used to being pinned. At every point you're on the throttle, you should be thinking about if you could be pinned. Start with making sure you're pinning it down every straight section.

This goes hand in hand with getting pinned more...you need to rev the bike out. You're a gear high through most of the corners, an inline 4 should only drop below 9k if you're in a very slow, first gear corner. You want to wring it's neck. The engine will take it, you need to start getting into the upper rev ranges.

At 5:06 a rider comes up the inside of you, and you kind of jerk wide. It's an easy impulse to have, but it's a very bad habit that can get you in trouble if someone's coming around the outside. You want to be predictable. It's something that comes with more time and comfort on the track, but it's worth mentioning. Also, jerking upright like that will throw you off your line and cause you to need more lean angle to stay on line. If you're already committed to a corner and you don't have some space in reserve, then that could cause you to crash or run off.

Finally, you should have stood it up once you were going off the track. It's hard to make these decisions on the fly, I've definitely done it before, but going off the track isn't an instant crash. Once you realize there's no saving it, stand it up, use the rear brake, and try and keep it upright. If you go off while leaned over, you will crash. If you go off while upright, you'll be fine.

Besides that though, good job for a second trackday! Did some passing, got passed, you did well. Work on your lines and getting pinned (remember, getting out of a corner fast is far more important than getting into them fast), and you'll improve in leaps and bounds :)

Z3n fucked around with this message at 20:40 on Dec 9, 2009

lokigoesrawr
Nov 18, 2004

roar.

Z3n posted:

very helpful :words:

Many thanks as always.

[hitting the apexes, but not artificially drifting wide]
I think my biggest mistake all weekend was line selection. Watching the footage before the crash, I realized I could really lean the bike down at speed, which now gives me a ton of heart-felt confidence in the tires. When you say commit to the turn, do you mean I should be at max lean shortly/crisply after turn-in?

[upright: pinned or on the brakes; revs]
I'll keep this in mind. My poor brain is still trying to process what it considers to be insane acceleration and speed. I need to stop being a pussy and adapt. The 600i4 is often overwhelming and so much more fun compared to a Ninja 250.

[traffic]
I seem to get really paranoid about taking someone else out. I get anxious whenever there's traffic around. Like you say, I guess it's something you just get used to. At 5:06 I got really scared I was going to hit his rear.



I know line and inputs are much more important than body position, but any critiques there? I feel like my head and shoulders are often staying planted.

On chicane-like transitions, should you be moving upper and lower body for each turn? By how much?

My toes seem to consistently touch before my knees, which have yet to touch down while on the bike :v: Not sure if it's foot position (where the balls rest on the peg), legs being too conservative (I think most likely), or hip position/orientation. I'm never at ease with leaning the bike over while hanging off because I think I'll somehow hit my toes and fall off the bike. :downs:




lokigoesrawr fucked around with this message at 02:39 on Dec 10, 2009

lokigoesrawr
Nov 18, 2004

roar.

MrKatharsis posted:

I'd love to come tailgate and cheer you on at Jennings. I've been there a couple times and I love it.

I'd love to ride with you. Jennings was indeed a lot of fun to ride on. And the pits were really nice--I loved how it was designed for motorcycles. Might make the 9 hour drive down from NC again in January.


Off to prep for Road Atlanta this weekend. If anyone's been there before, any tips?

Zenaida
Nov 13, 2004
Hey Tilt-suit-crashing-in buddy. How'd yours hold up? Looks like it did pretty well from your pics. Yours is a two piece?

Z3n
Jul 21, 2007

I think the point is Z3n is a space cowboy on the edge of a frontier unknown to man, he's out there pushing the limits, trail braking into the abyss. Finding out where the edge of the razor is, turning to face the darkness and revving his 690 into it's vast gaze. You gotta live this to learn it bro.

lokigoesrawr posted:

Many thanks as always.

[hitting the apexes, but not artificially drifting wide]
I think my biggest mistake all weekend was line selection. Watching the footage before the crash, I realized I could really lean the bike down at speed, which now gives me a ton of heart-felt confidence in the tires. When you say commit to the turn, do you mean I should be at max lean shortly/crisply after turn-in?

Pretty much. Twist of the Wrist 2 explains a lot about quick turning and why it's good. But you're also not actually making it to the apex...you should be focusing on turn in and apex and making sure that you're consistent with where you turn in and consistent with making it to the apex.

quote:

[upright: pinned or on the brakes; revs]
I'll keep this in mind. My poor brain is still trying to process what it considers to be insane acceleration and speed. I need to stop being a pussy and adapt. The 600i4 is often overwhelming and so much more fun compared to a Ninja 250.

The more you pin it, the faster your brain gets used to it ;)

quote:

[traffic]
I seem to get really paranoid about taking someone else out. I get anxious whenever there's traffic around. Like you say, I guess it's something you just get used to. At 5:06 I got really scared I was going to hit his rear.

Really just a comfort thing. But also something to keep in mind, that you need to mentally start to train yourself out of that habit.



quote:

I know line and inputs are much more important than body position, but any critiques there? I feel like my head and shoulders are often staying planted.

Don't hang more than one rear end cheek off the seat. There's a lot more weight in your upper body, so focus on getting that off to the inside of the bike. Too much hanging off doesn't do any good. You can fine tune your body positioning when you start to run into cornering clearance issues.


quote:

On chicane-like transitions, should you be moving upper and lower body for each turn? By how much?

You should be straight lining fast chicanes, staying upright and pinned. On slower ones, where you could get a knee down on the transitions, you should be transfering your body from side to side as needed.

quote:

My toes seem to consistently touch before my knees, which have yet to touch down while on the bike :v: Not sure if it's foot position (where the balls rest on the peg), legs being too conservative (I think most likely), or hip position/orientation. I'm never at ease with leaning the bike over while hanging off because I think I'll somehow hit my toes and fall off the bike. :downs:






You're having difficulty getting your knee down because you are rotating your hips so your knee is going towards the front tire. If you square your hips so that they are perpendicular to the lines of the bikes, when you put your leg out it will go towards the ground, not towards the front tire. You've got the lean angle to get your knee down (especially in pic 2), but you don't have the lower body locked in and perpendicular to the bike.

Also, now is a good time to train yourself to hold on with your outside leg. You can't have your inside leg be tense when you hit the ground or it'll bounce off and upset the bike. That'll help you square your hips up too.

Any questions/anything unclear?

Tsaven Nava
Dec 31, 2008

by elpintogrande
MAN this thread makes me want to go to the track. Stupid winter.

lokigoesrawr
Nov 18, 2004

roar.

Z3n posted:

You're having difficulty getting your knee down because you are rotating your hips so your knee is going towards the front tire. If you square your hips so that they are perpendicular to the lines of the bikes, when you put your leg out it will go towards the ground, not towards the front tire. You've got the lean angle to get your knee down (especially in pic 2), but you don't have the lower body locked in and perpendicular to the bike.

Also, now is a good time to train yourself to hold on with your outside leg. You can't have your inside leg be tense when you hit the ground or it'll bounce off and upset the bike. That'll help you square your hips up too.

Any questions/anything unclear?

Ohhhhhhhhhhh, I don't know why I didn't see that before. That makes a lot of sense. I'll work on squaring up and locking in after focusing on lines/inputs/consistency.

I think I need to remount my techspecs higher. I stuck them on there about in the middle of the tank. I almost feel like my outside leg would slip, but I'm not sure if that's just in my head.

Anyway, I've got my list of things to work on at Road Atlanta Fri/Sat/Sun. Might get some rain. I might request more of your seemingly infinite wisdom after the weekend if you're willing. Thanks again! :)

Zenaida posted:

Hey Tilt-suit-crashing-in buddy. How'd yours hold up? Looks like it did pretty well from your pics. Yours is a two piece?

Yup, it's a 2-piece, cheaper non-perf'd option A. Held up pretty well, wore down in a bunch of spots, minor seam separation on the left butt after being ground down. Did its job really well. Clean fall--wasn't even sore anywhere. :)

You?

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AncientTV
Jun 1, 2006

for sale custom bike over a billion invested

College Slice
Found this on the ex500 forums, it's a shame the quality is so terrible.

http://www.ebike-ridingtips.co.uk/video/mediaplayer.swf?file=rossi.flv
The bit on lines whole thing is pretty neat.

AncientTV fucked around with this message at 08:47 on Dec 10, 2009

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