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(I've never ridden barber, but I'll give it a shot)lokigoesrawr posted:T1-T2, around 0:12- Probably just a bit of headshake before he rolls off, maybe setting down a wheelie, maybe an awkward transition from gas to brakes. It looks like he trailbrakes pretty deep into the corner. quote:T13-T14-T14a, starting 1:24- It looks like he brakes for 13, sweeps in to the apex, and then stands the bike up, brakes into 14, drifts wide, and then once he's slowed enough, he's at the proper entry speed for 14a, and dips back in for the second apex. Split 13 and 14/14a into 2 corners, 13 is a traditional corner, except that on exit you'll be rolling out, leaned over slightly to the right, while braking for 14a. quote:All this downshifting while leaned over business is slightly unnerving. Also, the 'once the throttle is cracked open, it is rolled on evenly, smoothly, and constantly throughout the remainder of the turn' rule is confusing when you start connecting some of these chicanes. Honestly, you're not going to gain too much from watching videos of fast riders at the track. You're going to be 20-30 seconds off this pace, so if you try and match their lines exactly, you're going to end up turning in way too early and drifting way too wide. I'd instead play videogames that let you have some idea of where the track goes, and spend a few sessions going slow, trying to figure out your reference points for the track. The track looks very different in person than it does on video. There isn't an exception to the keith code throttle rule on this track, you just need to break up the corners a little more.
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Feb 25, 2010 18:54
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lokigoesrawr posted:Sorry I don't have any tips, but the layout reminded me of this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kn32IgQGrOQ I can't believe I played that with a keyboard in EGA graphics without vomiting profusely.
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Feb 25, 2010 18:57
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lokigoesrawr posted:Why does the California Superbike school at Barber have to be the same weekend as the Chump Car challenge at BIR... 
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Feb 25, 2010 19:06
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Z3n posted:It looks like he brakes for 13, sweeps in to the apex, and then stands the bike up, brakes into 14, drifts wide, and then once he's slowed enough, he's at the proper entry speed for 14a, and dips back in for the second apex. Split 13 and 14/14a into 2 corners, 13 is a traditional corner, except that on exit you'll be rolling out, leaned over slightly to the right, while braking for 14a. Cool, that helps a lot, thanks. I think lazy steering was one of the things that contributed to my Jennings crash. At Atlanta, I think I compensated for my very slow lean rate by pulling back turn-in points as the sessions progressed (back from the points I saw CRs initially turn-in on sighting laps). I really want to be able to flick the bike faster--should I gradually try to turn-in later from what seems early and comfortable?
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Feb 25, 2010 19:18
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lokigoesrawr posted:Cool, that helps a lot, thanks. Take the pace down about 10-15%, and practice setting your body position securely before you turn in. Once you're locked into place before you give steering input, relax your outside arm and aggressively push the inside bar to get the bike to flip on it's side. From there, you can adjust your turn in point later to compensate for the more aggressive turn in and ramp up the pace, or just up the pace to carry more speed and compensate for the more aggressive turn in.
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Feb 25, 2010 19:28
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Z3n posted:Take the pace down about 10-15%, and practice setting your body position securely before you turn in. Once you're locked into place before you give steering input, relax your outside arm and aggressively push the inside bar to get the bike to flip on it's side. From there, you can adjust your turn in point later to compensate for the more aggressive turn in and ramp up the pace, or just up the pace to carry more speed and compensate for the more aggressive turn in. I'll try that and report back sometime next week with video. Borrowing a friend's GoProHD so hopefully I'll get some more diagnostic angles on the side.  So as I understand it, if your tires are warm and you're not on the brakes, it's incredibly unlikely that you can overspend the front traction just from fast steering, right? Short of scraping and over-riding the tires, or falling off the bike or something stupid, that is.
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Feb 25, 2010 19:50
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lokigoesrawr posted:So as I understand it, if your tires are warm and you're not on the brakes, it's incredibly unlikely that you can overspend the front traction just from fast steering, right? Short of scraping and over-riding the tires, or falling off the bike or something stupid, that is. It is physically impossible to do unless there is some extenuating circumstance. Something on the track, braking, wheelies, etc. You could theoretically lean it off the edge of the tires, but you'd have to turn it until you were scraping pegs and then keep turning it past that. You should try and work up to the point where you can flick it to your knee...that is, apply a steering input that takes the bike to enough lean angle that you get your knee down. Once you get comfortable with flicking it to your knee, you can start working on flicking it to your toe. With a good line, and good body position plus a fast turn in, and rearsets + flicking it to your toe you can carry absolutely monster corner speed. But that's the sort of control that takes a lot of track time to achieve. Z3n fucked around with this message at 20:10 on Feb 25, 2010 |
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Feb 25, 2010 20:07
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Anyone planning a Socal track day in the near future? I want to get out on the track again
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Feb 25, 2010 23:02
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Not me. Need to get this endurance race at miller out of the way before I can consider a trackday too seriously, plus I don't have a bike that's track worthy at the moment. Unless I want to take dimple butt out and add some scrapes to the saddlebags.
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Feb 25, 2010 23:54
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I did my first trackdays this weekend and it was way cooler than I thought it was going to be, and I can't wait to do another! It was at Thunder Hill through Zoom Zoom Trackdays. There was also a ton of photography which I purchased, but this one is my favorite, even though I'm not going through the turn as fast as others, cause of the color vibrancy: Also, there was a guy on another forum who was able to bring me up after my original ride couldn't come, and he had an interesting trackday photo taken of himself. Slightly  :http://4theriders.com/viewpics.php?loc=/pics/trackdays/2010/02.27.10-thill/SATURDAY/NOT_8/
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Mar 2, 2010 19:02
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Well I've signed up for two track days in April...nothing like jumping in. Cornerspin (http://www.cornerspeed.net/spin.html) on the 17th and 18th. Talladega Gran Prix private track day on the 26th. Most likely on the DRZ but may consider the SV. Good news is I already have all the gear, bad news is waiting until April.
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Mar 2, 2010 19:34
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Oh, dear. I just realized that the local track (HPR) has 3 open lapping days/month, all summer long. $150 for a full day. That could be bad.
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Mar 2, 2010 20:49
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Speaking of photography, what is the deal with most tracks? I'm going to the STT even in Joliet, IL on Apr 24-25, and they say they'll have photographers there. Do you have to pay for the prints/images of you? What's to stop my girlfriend from borrowing my some of my long glass and shooting photos of me and any other goons that show up?
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Mar 2, 2010 21:03
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Tsaven Nava posted:Speaking of photography, what is the deal with most tracks? I'm going to the STT even in Joliet, IL on Apr 24-25, and they say they'll have photographers there. Do you have to pay for the prints/images of you? The photographers on the track are allowed to go all over the track and take photos. Your girl is most likely limited to the pit area and now allowed on the track itself. It cost me $40 for the entire days worth of photos, however they usually put online free photos that are much smaller with tons of watermarks.
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Mar 2, 2010 21:50
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Thought I'd finally stop being lazy and post up some pictures of me from the CCS Race of Champions at Daytona last October. I think most, if not all, are from the Hammerhead Trackday the Thursday before the weekend. Pretty sure most of the photographers left before my practice/races late Sunday afternoon.   This picture was taken from ground level looking straight at the track. A.K.A. bankings are sweet.  My dad took this picture with his old film camera and I just think it's cool. 
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Mar 2, 2010 22:13
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T-Square posted:Not that I really know jack poo poo about anything race-related, but aren't your shoulders supposed to be farther off the bike then your butt?
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Mar 3, 2010 06:45
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Are those Michelin Power One 2CT's? How do you like them?
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Mar 3, 2010 09:35
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Tsaven Nava posted:Not that I really know jack poo poo about anything race-related, but aren't your shoulders supposed to be farther off the bike then your butt? Yeah, probably, but I've gotten multiple comments from control riders in track days that my body position is great, and it works fine for me so it's just another thing to work on. I've only been racing for 2 years, this year will be my 3rd season aventari posted:Are those Michelin Power One 2CT's? How do you like them? Yes sir. They work out great for me, I've never had a problem with them this past season. Although I've heard from one other guy that he didn't like them because he felt that they lost front end grip without warning, but I've never had that problem.
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Mar 3, 2010 18:54
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T-Square posted:Yeah, probably, but I've gotten multiple comments from control riders in track days that my body position is great, and it works fine for me so it's just another thing to work on. I've only been racing for 2 years, this year will be my 3rd season  This guy seemed to do alright riding crossed up. BP's more a theorycraft for most, if you're not dragging hard parts, your BP's not gonna do much for you. quote:Yes sir. They work out great for me, I've never had a problem with them this past season. Although I've heard from one other guy that he didn't like them because he felt that they lost front end grip without warning, but I've never had that problem. The P1s never quite worked right for me, could never get the feedback I was looking for with them. Thanks for sharing the pics, I'd love to race Daytona one day.
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Mar 3, 2010 19:55
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It's right up there at top for me. I know I personally give NASCAR a ton of poo poo for it, but there really is nothing like haulin' rear end around those bankings.
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Mar 3, 2010 21:24
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T-Square posted:It's right up there at top for me. I know I personally give NASCAR a ton of poo poo for it, but there really is nothing like haulin' rear end around those bankings. Yeah, the most banking I've ever been on is streets of willow, which is a comparatively tame 20 degrees. Nothing like a shitload of positive camber to help you out 
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Mar 3, 2010 22:19
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Z3n posted:Yeah, the most banking I've ever been on is streets of willow, which is a comparatively tame 20 degrees. Nothing like a shitload of positive camber to help you out That banked bowl is where I get the bike leaned over the most by far. My kickstand is worn half-through and the muffler can and pipe are worn pretty bad from that one turn
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Mar 4, 2010 08:26
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Another fun one is Grattan Raceway in Grattan, Michigan. The thing might as well be a drat roller coaster, there's more off-camber turns and elevation changes than you can shake a stick at 
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Mar 4, 2010 18:40
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If all goes as planned the 250 should be taking a weekend trip down to tally in 3 weeks. Oh god, its gonna be so ridiculously fun. BT016's 110-17F/150-17R, haha.
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Mar 5, 2010 05:04
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uMseWXoFVOo Looks like I'm unconsciously pulling my knee in before it actually touches. Is my hip still pointed towards the outside? Regardless, getting the rearsets moved up and back will do wonders for lean confidence (hope I can get these in before Friday), as well as having the techspecs moved properly so I can carry my weight on the tank instead of the inside footpeg. Had this mental block of leaning the bike over all weekend, especially after a long hiatus. Oh and crashed last session Saturday on the outing lap. Just passed a guy after T4, braked, completely off the brakes, leaned in lazily T5 skeptical of entry speed, front tucks out at max lean a half-second after cracking open the gas. Completely my fault not respecting cold tires. Spent all of Sunday trying to work back to Saturday's pace. I knew why it happened and why I shouldn't be afraid of it happening again, but jesus christ it fucks with your head so much. Question: I know you're supposed to lock in BP before entry (before you start braking and downshifting?), but when exactly should that be ideally? I find it incredibly difficult hard braking (as well as awkward shifting) with a knee dangling out instead of bracing the tank. Is this just something you have to get used to, or can you just finish slowing down, assume corner BP, wait, then turn in?
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Mar 8, 2010 09:16
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Your video looks fine there. The main thing is that your foot stayed on the ball with the heel up. Everything else tends to follow that. Also, don't be afraid to stay off the bike a bit longer after the apex and instead focus on getting it upright and using the throttle more. While I'm sometimes guilty of making my move off the seat during my turn in as well, ideally you do it somewhere down the straight before. You can still grip the tank with both legs if you need to, though it then becomes easier to stay crossed up through the entire corner. I think you'll find that moving your knees closer to the tank with the pegs is going to make one-legged bracing a lot easier.
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Mar 8, 2010 15:42
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lokigoesrawr posted:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uMseWXoFVOo Hard to see but you look ok. quote:Oh and crashed last session Saturday on the outing lap. Just passed a guy after T4, braked, completely off the brakes, leaned in lazily T5 skeptical of entry speed, front tucks out at max lean a half-second after cracking open the gas. Completely my fault not respecting cold tires. Spent all of Sunday trying to work back to Saturday's pace. I knew why it happened and why I shouldn't be afraid of it happening again, but jesus christ it fucks with your head so much. The problem with turning in lazily is that it means you'll need to carry more lean angle to make the corner...doubly tough when you're on cold tires. Either way, just in case you don't already know this: The best way to heat up tires is a lot of throttle and brake. My first 2 laps of the day, and my first lap of every session following, I'm doing my best to imitate a squid: Crawl through the corners, hard on the gas, hard on the brakes, crawl through the next corner. quote:Question: I'll still lock my inside leg to the tank, even with my rear end shifted off the seat so I'm prepped for turn in. Also, you're downshifting really late in your braking zone, get your shifting done as early in the braking zone as possible. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vO5z_aWdhEY#t=0m13s Watch lorenzo. You can see him snap his rear end off the seat to the side, right as he pops up and begins to brake. You can't brake properly when you're trying to move around on the bike, you need to be locked in place and secure on the bike. The same is true of turn in, it's difficult to impossible to get consistent on turn in when you're also scooting your rear end around on the seat. It may not seem that important now, but it's key to build up a good base of techniques so that when you start going faster you've got both good habits and the consistency and precision that's needed to go fast. The problem with waiting to set your body position after braking is you'll be coasting while you wait for yourself to get into position. After braking but before turn in is really the worst place to be. Plus, it's going to make it impossible to trail brake, which is a very useful technique. Z3n fucked around with this message at 18:08 on Mar 8, 2010 |
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Mar 8, 2010 18:03
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-Inu- posted:If all goes as planned the 250 should be taking a weekend trip down to tally in 3 weeks. Oh god, its gonna be so ridiculously fun. BT016's 110-17F/150-17R, haha. 150s on a 3.5in rim are not going to handle right. The tire will be pinched in, reducing the size of the contact patch when leaned over. And you don't have enough power to take advantage of the larger contact patch (while upright) anyway. I wouldn't go over 140. My track bike has a 4.25in rim, and 150/60 tires fit nicely. A 160/60 tire looks like an over inflated balloon on the same wheel. Zool fucked around with this message at 02:39 on Mar 9, 2010 |
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Mar 9, 2010 02:37
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Zool posted:150s on a 3.5in rim are not going to handle right. The tire will be pinched in, reducing the size of the contact patch when leaned over. And you don't have enough power to take advantage of the larger contact patch (while upright) anyway. I wouldn't go over 140. Just echoing this...the general idea should be a 130 on a 3.5in rim, 150 on a 4.25in, 160 on a 4.5in, and 180+ on 5in or wider. It's not the absolute end of the world, I've seen and ridden on tires that are pinched beyond belief, but it's going to cause you to flatspot faster and will reduce contact patch at lean. However, tires vary in width, even within the confines of the 1x0 system...sometimes you'll have a narrow 150 that'll fit just fine on a 3.5 inch rim, it just depends. Look at the tire maker's recommended rim size, and you should be able to figure out if it'll be alright or not from there.
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Mar 9, 2010 04:20
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The problem is finding a decently sticky tire that small. I said the same thing as you, but I was talking to a few WERA guys who run the 016 150s on their 250's and they haven't had any issues. It's going to change the feel of the bike for sure, but 150 seems to be the standard for 250 trackdays/racing so I think it will be alright. At least I hope so.
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Mar 9, 2010 04:22
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Thanks for the advice guys. Inu: at least you're on 17" and not 16" rims (-07) 
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Mar 9, 2010 05:30
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What's the closest & best place near Vancouver, BC for track days/lessons? Seattle?
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Mar 9, 2010 05:33
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I went to the track today and crashed 0 times. A personal best! 
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Mar 15, 2010 05:00
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Zool posted:I went to the track today and crashed 0 times. A personal best! No poo poo, haha, same here. 
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Mar 15, 2010 09:13
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A bit of helmet cam from said zero crash track day.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lhXm1J_xnv8
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Mar 16, 2010 08:48
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I think I want to ride a motorcycle on the track. I've only put just over 1k miles on my beat up old 250. Do I need to spend more time just riding around? What should I look for in a track bike? What else can I do to prepare myself to ride on a track. Also, any suggestions for schools or other good newbie track experience near Austin, TX? I don't really know where to start.
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Mar 24, 2010 06:45
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Resource posted:I think I want to ride a motorcycle on the track. Figure out what tracks are within the distance you're willing to travel. You can probably find a decent sample of them here: http://www.roadracingworld.com/resources/tracks/ Figure out what organizations are running events at those tracks. Again, many of them might be listed here: http://www.roadracingworld.com/calendar/glance/ You'll need a 1-piece or full circumference zippered 2-piece (leather) suit, full boots, and gauntlet gloves. That'll run you anywhere from 300 to a grand. Figure out how you're going to haul your bike to and from the track. Make sure you have good tires, and that all wear items are excellent--cosmetics/plastics are a non-issue; go through the org's tech list, rules, etc. Also, pick up a copy of Twist of the Wrist 2. When you go through all that and become addicted (it's honestly beyond my comprehension as how one would avoid obsessive addiction), start looking for track mods or track bikes.
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Mar 24, 2010 07:06
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Piggy-backing on Resource's post, is there an expectation as far as rider experience is concerned when you show up for a track school? I don't plan on attending one for another year or so due to finances, but even then, I wouldn't want to get eaten alive by all others in attendance.
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Mar 24, 2010 07:13
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AncientTV posted:Piggy-backing on Resource's post, is there an expectation as far as rider experience is concerned when you show up for a track school? I don't plan on attending one for another year or so due to finances, but even then, I wouldn't want to get eaten alive by all others in attendance. I don't think I'm really qualified to answer these questions, but I get the general impression that most track schools have programs geared toward riders who have never been on the track. Track schools often seem to have different levels of classes. You're generally expected to be comfortable riding a motorcycle. Ask the individual schools.
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Mar 24, 2010 07:29
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I haven't done my first track day yet, but I'm signed up and ready to go for it. I'd like to point out that usually for the Novice classes, the requirements for gear are slightly less strict. I checked ahead with the organizer of mine (STT), and they allow textile suits and flip-face helmets in the novice category.
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Mar 24, 2010 07:32
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