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Buy the Italian car. Do it! Whats the worst that happens?
davecrazy fucked around with this message at 00:03 on Sep 19, 2023 |
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Sep 18, 2023 23:51
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davecrazy posted:But the Italian car. Do it! Whats the worst that happens? He spends another 20K trying to keep the 20K Maserati running and eventually gets so tired of it he pays a scrap yard to pick it up for him.
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Sep 18, 2023 23:55
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I did own a '78 MG for a while, so the universal discouragement brought back memories of that period in my life.
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Sep 19, 2023 00:08
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Lucid Nonsense posted:I did own a '78 MG for a while, so the universal discouragement brought back memories of that period in my life. Everyone already knows that's an unreliable but fun piece of....british engineering. It can be repaired with duct tape and bailing wire. A 2016 Maserati is full of wiring and modules that require more in software licensing and interfaces than they are now worth, and that's before you even get into parts costs and how often you will need them......and if you can even get them.
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Sep 19, 2023 00:11
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Lucid Nonsense posted:So I've seen Maserati's on FB that are 6-8 years old going for less than $20k. Is that a scam, or does the value drop that much that quickly? I mean, I would not mind getting a 6 figure car for low 5 figures, would I just be flushing that money down the toilet? My brother in Christ have you met our Lord and Savior the BMW 7 series. Depending on year and options (ours will self park, which is a neat party trick) that's like a $70-115k car new, but can be bought with factory warranty and 35k mi 3 years old, off lease for like $40k +/- We bought ours in Jan 2021 with like 38k on the clock, about to roll over 80k miles (so like, 14k mi per year? Pretty good considering it's the primary car for two adults) I think we have $6200 in maintenance and $1600 of that is in tires. Probably would have been way less had we not taken it to SF BMW for the 50k service. The only abnormal issues so far have been 1. Wheel tilt sometimes stops early. Same with the seat leg extender thing. Hitting the memory button enough times will eventually get it in the right spot. Weirdly works perfectly when it's either very hot or very cold out, probably a bad ground somewhere 2. Needed to add about a gallon of coolant ($35 for the BMW specific stuff at Autozone) to the reservoir around 65k miles. Apparently not totally uncommon 3. Leather dash has started to peel up at the windshield, adhesive sticking it to the foam pulled back about 1" in some areas. In our defense we did street park it with the windshield facing west for an entire year in The South Car has the same general inline 6 and transmission as most other full size BMW so parts aren't too crazy to find, and every major population center has a garage or nine that specializes in German cars, vs Maserati which you'll be lucky if there's more than two garages outside of the largest cities Big downside is that if you live in Boston it can be difficult to street park, apparently
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Sep 19, 2023 07:06
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I guess it's about time for cars with worn out carbon-ceramic brakes to be hitting the market, huh. That's going to be the source of many, many "this cheap exotic car ruined my life" stories.
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Sep 19, 2023 07:09
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Tricky Ed posted:I guess it's about time for cars with worn out carbon-ceramic brakes to be hitting the market, huh. That's going to be the source of many, many "this cheap exotic car ruined my life" stories. A single ceramic disc for a 911 is 8k so yeah going to get expensive. People just swap steelies in there for 1/10th the cost though.
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Sep 19, 2023 10:51
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I love the quattroporte and a dude down the street from me has one so Ive bothered him about it. Its a beautiful car, great sounding V8, handles decently. It also is always broken. Ive seen it getting towed twice in two years and dude says its a fairly regular occurrence for the gauge cluster to light up like a Christmas tree when he starts the car. 95% of the time this is solved by the classic fix of turn it off and turn it back on again and the other 5% of the time this happens it costs between 3 and 10 thousand dollars. This is a car that became more reliable when it started using Fiat and Mopar components.
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Sep 19, 2023 11:52
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my 99 jeep dash would like up like a christmas tree. a solid fist bang on the dash would fix it. no kidding.
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Sep 19, 2023 14:39
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ethanol posted:my 99 jeep dash would like up like a christmas tree. a solid fist bang on the dash would fix it. no kidding. I had a rattle in a rental car which I fixed by opening the passenger side door and slamming it a couple of times. Never underestimate hitting things real hard as a solution.
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Sep 19, 2023 15:09
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:I had a rattle in a rental car which I fixed by opening the passenger side door and slamming it a couple of times. Never underestimate hitting things real hard as a solution. Percussive maintenance
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Sep 19, 2023 15:12
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Hadlock posted:My brother in Christ have you met our Lord and Savior the BMW 7 series. Depending on year and options (ours will self park, which is a neat party trick) that's like a $70-115k car new, but can be bought with factory warranty and 35k mi 3 years old, off lease for like $40k +/- Consider yourself lucky. This guy bought a 750 from Carmax, and has already had 22K of repairs done to it, and is on pace to have almost 50K of repairs by the time the Carmax warranty expires. https://www.tiktok.com/embed/7275071215641840939
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Sep 19, 2023 15:54
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:I had a rattle in a rental car which I fixed by opening the passenger side door and slamming it a couple of times. Never underestimate hitting things real hard as a solution. Inevitably one day it just stops fixing it.
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Sep 19, 2023 17:40
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smackfu posted:Inevitably one day it just stops fixing it. rental car, not my problem. see thread title.
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Sep 19, 2023 18:04
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skipdogg posted:Consider yourself lucky. This guy bought a 750 from Carmax, and has already had 22K of repairs done to it, and is on pace to have almost 50K of repairs by the time the Carmax warranty expires. The number of negative search results/overall sentiment about the "hot V8" N63 is largely why we decided to get the 740 with the inline six vs it's more powerful V8 sibling. 330hp is enough for a family car
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Sep 19, 2023 18:25
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It is funny GM killed their hot v8 after making a few hundred after spending a few hundred million developing it to beat the german hot vs before deciding the sbc did everything it did better.
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Sep 19, 2023 19:03
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Hadlock posted:The number of negative search results/overall sentiment about the "hot V8" N63 is largely why we decided to get the 740 with the inline six vs it's more powerful V8 sibling. 330hp is enough for a family car I have 508 and it's still not enough.
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Sep 19, 2023 19:12
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^ edit: if I had 500hp I'd probably wrap it around a tree. I was already chirping the tires running errands in downtown yesterday Ford has the Barra I6 and GM briefly made the Vortec 4200 I6 which apparently have stellar reputations and take boost Kind of curious if I6 have overall cooler under hood temps due to both the shape of the block and the size of engine bay needed to hold one
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Sep 19, 2023 19:15
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I think a big part of it is the inherent balance to the design of an I6. They are naturally very smooth running engines. This isn't really something that an accountant could gently caress with either by telling production to cheap out on parts. An engineer would literally have to go out of their way to design an I6 that was unbalanced and it would probably shake itself apart before the test engines even had time to break in. If you've noticed a lot of the engines that have a rep for being indestructible were I6s. Chrysler Slant 6, Ford 300, AMC/Jeep 4.2 and 4.0L. Lack of (or way way way less) vibrations is very good for longevity of an engine. Sure I guess they could put weak internals in them I guess, but its still a good design regardless. Most heavy truck engines are I6s too. Same reason. Those engines are also dinosaurs that were conceived before there were tons of fuel economy and emissions regs, so they weren't taxed as much in stock form, and had heavier duty components and these days there are a lot fewer I6s than there were in years past due to packaging reasons too.
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Sep 19, 2023 23:04
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Lease question for this group. I am trying to lease an Ioniq 5 and have been going through a broker to work through my options. It seems like a one pay lease would save quite a bit of money compared to a traditional lease, and I'm trying to figure out what the risks are, and google is an SEO sesspool for this type of thing. Seems like this is the one time that gap insurance actually makes sense?
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Sep 19, 2023 23:28
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On the topic of Italian cars: my girlfriend has her eyes on a few 2013-2015 Fiat 500s. (Her Suzuki SX4 is rusting to death.) Any opinions here about these? I know they're tiny (a plus) and slow (not a concern). Surprisingly, we're seeing more manuals than automatics for sale -- seems like the better choice anyway, and she can learn on my car. We know all the old jokes, but what's Fiat reliability like these days? Alternatively, any fun or at least fun-looking hatchbacks that can be had in reasonable shape around/under $10k she should be looking at? I know she should find a used Prius, she knows too, but she's resisting. Every time I've bought a car, I've had a very specific thing in mind, so this kind of broad shopping is new to me.
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Sep 20, 2023 03:25
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Handsome Rob posted:On the topic of Italian cars: my girlfriend has her eyes on a few 2013-2015 Fiat 500s. (Her Suzuki SX4 is rusting to death.) Any opinions here about these? I know they're tiny (a plus) and slow (not a concern). Surprisingly, we're seeing more manuals than automatics for sale -- seems like the better choice anyway, and she can learn on my car. We know all the old jokes, but what's Fiat reliability like these days? Fix It Again, Tony Kia or Hyundai probably has something shed like. There arent that many fun hatchback models sold in USA especially for 10k used. Flavors of VW Golf are an excellent car generally.
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Sep 20, 2023 03:43
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Handsome Rob posted:On the topic of Italian cars: my girlfriend has her eyes on a few 2013-2015 Fiat 500s. (Her Suzuki SX4 is rusting to death.) Any opinions here about these? I know they're tiny (a plus) and slow (not a concern). Surprisingly, we're seeing more manuals than automatics for sale -- seems like the better choice anyway, and she can learn on my car. We know all the old jokes, but what's Fiat reliability like these days? It being a 10-year-old car is going to be a bigger issue than it being a FIAT. 500s are fun little cars. They inspire a lot of passion, both pro- and anti-. They are not good on the highway, so if she is planning on a lot of long hauls in it you may want to consider something else. For city driving and grocery-getting and such it's great. Its reliability is kind of average, probably better than a Suzuki. A VW GTI is worth a look as an alternative.
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Sep 20, 2023 03:56
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I think the Fiat 500 is a great choice if you love it. Its not well built and its not the most reliable thing in the world, but its fun to drive (especially with a manual transmission) and its fun. If you dont love it and youre just looking for a small car there are better choices.
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Sep 20, 2023 13:20
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I got a freaking FIAT Panda from Naples to Venice without any major issues. It was slow and tiny but it got me there. Only issue was that it threw a check engine light at me when I missed a downshift going 80 kmph but it drove fine and the code cleared on its own. FIATs are fine!
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Sep 20, 2023 13:29
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There are some higher mileage Focus ST's available for ~$10k, and while they are turbocharged I've heard (anecdotally) that they hold up pretty well. It's not really a small car, but it's also incredibly fun to drive.
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Sep 20, 2023 13:43
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ScooterMcTiny posted:Lease question for this group. I am trying to lease an Ioniq 5 and have been going through a broker to work through my options. It seems like a one pay lease would save quite a bit of money compared to a traditional lease, and I'm trying to figure out what the risks are, and google is an SEO sesspool for this type of thing. Seems like this is the one time that gap insurance actually makes sense? Gap insurance for a lease? First I've heard of that. The problem with a "one pay" lease is the same, but even worse, than a down payment on a lease: if you drive it off that lot and total it that's it, all money paid is forfeit. If there is a gap product for this it's going to have to be quite interestingly structured, as it's going to have to pay out the lease company first and then the rest of what you put in? This sounds like something that needs to be part of the lease contract and supplied with it. Why are you trying to lease a commodity car? If the answer isn't "it's being paid for by my business and I need to turn capex into opex for accounting reasons" you probably shouldn't be leasing.
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Sep 20, 2023 13:56
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There's a lot of fucky poo poo with EV incentives now. Many EVs, including the Ioniq 5 don't qualify for the federal tax credits if the vehicle is purchased due to low NA sourced content. But if you lease the vehicle, you qualify for the tax credit, which now reduces the cap cost of the lease by $7,500. At that point, it makes a lot more sense to lease because even if money factors are lousy (my dad just got a lease on an Ioniq 5 with excellent credit for an APR equivalent of 10.2%  ), it takes a whole hell of a lot to make up for what's essentially a 15% cut to cap cost. Tax credit fuckery aside, I think it's generally a good idea to lease EVs as an exception to the general wisdom that you should not lease. Tech is moving very fast and these are not yet "buy and keep for 10 years" cars - keeping a non-NACS car, for instance, is a pain, and the resale values will be lower on those cars. But there's no way you could have foretold that a year ago.
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Sep 20, 2023 14:11
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Motronic posted:Gap insurance for a lease? First I've heard of that. Thanks this is really helpful. I havent seen the full lease paperwork yet so there very well may be a gap product in there. And yes Kyoon answered the other parts of this. If I lease I get a $7500 cost reduction that I dont get if I buy. And Im doing a 24 month lease that lines up with when our second car is paid off then we can do a bigger assessment as to where we are as a family with our car needs, where the market is, etc. The one pay lease ends up being ~$3,000 cheaper than a traditional lease with a couple grand down, so the economics of it make sense.
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Sep 20, 2023 14:38
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ScooterMcTiny posted:And yes Kyoon answered the other parts of this. If I lease I get a $7500 cost reduction that I dont get if I buy. And Im doing a 24 month lease that lines up with when our second car is paid off then we can do a bigger assessment as to where we are as a family with our car needs, where the market is, etc. Yikes, those are some perverse incentives (thanks Kyoon). Without understanding what happens if the car is totaled during the lease term I'd say it's a pretty unacceptable risk for $3k. Surely this is/can be mitigated in the contract.
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Sep 20, 2023 14:41
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Wouldn't totaling a leased car be like totaling a financed car? The insurance company would pay what the car was worth at the time of the accident, and if that is more than the residual + remaining lease payments, you would keep the difference. If you paid your lease off at the start, it would just be the residual, so you'd keep more. I'm not understanding the issue. If anything, a one payment lease would be better because you wouldn't owe money factor on payments for a car that no longer exists.
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Sep 20, 2023 14:52
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Motronic posted:Yikes, those are some perverse incentives (thanks Kyoon). Yea it basically does not make sense for families above the AGI threshold for the EV incentives to purchase EVs. Far better to lease and then do a buy out or whatever else to get the $7,500 reduction (that almost all dealers/manufacturers are passing along I dont think Ive seen any that arent). Ill take a look at the contract to see about gap coverage when I get it. Thanks again
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Sep 20, 2023 14:54
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Motronic posted:Yikes, those are some perverse incentives (thanks Kyoon). The history behind it is interesting, Congress only wanted to subsidize American-built EVs but Congress doesn't enforce the law, so: https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a44131850/leasing-an-ev-tax-credit/ quote:In December, the U.S. Treasury Department issued its guidance on interpreting the new rules specified in the Inflation Reduction Act. Under law, Congress exempted "commercial" vehicles, a definition most often applied to medium- and heavy-duty trucks, from the domestic-content rules. Anyway, the law of the land now is that any leased vehicle of any kind is now a "commercial vehicle", which can open the door to other sorts of preferential tax and other treatment and may push more people towards leases in general even though interest rates are sky high now.
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Sep 20, 2023 15:01
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KillHour posted:Wouldn't totaling a leased car be like totaling a financed car? The insurance company would pay what the car was worth at the time of the accident, and if that is more than the residual + remaining lease payments, you would keep the difference. If you paid your lease off at the start, it would just be the residual, so you'd keep more. As far as I can tell the one payment lease only makes sense if you plan to pay off the lease AND buy the car outright at its residual value, de-facto buying the car outright with the credit.
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Sep 20, 2023 15:24
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:As far as I can tell the one payment lease only makes sense if you plan to pay off the lease AND buy the car outright at its residual value, de-facto buying the car outright with the credit. Pretty much this. It's not unheard of to get an insane deal in some cases on one pay leases as well, but it's not common. People who are trying to capture the EV credit are doing this a lot, but those folks want to own the vehicle and not complete the lease. KillHour posted:Wouldn't totaling a leased car be like totaling a financed car? The insurance company would pay what the car was worth at the time of the accident, and if that is more than the residual + remaining lease payments, you would keep the difference. If you paid your lease off at the start, it would just be the residual, so you'd keep more. Nope. In a lease you don't own the car. My car is owned by CABT LLC which is who Ford uses to hold the leases. Insurance pays them. Ford leases include a GAP Waiver clause. Here's the legalese from my lease contract, looks like in the event of a total loss on a single pay lease they will credit you back some funds. YMMV, this is Ford specific. code:
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Sep 20, 2023 16:09
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skipdogg posted:Pretty much this. It's not unheard of to get an insane deal in some cases on one pay leases as well, but it's not common. People who are trying to capture the EV credit are doing this a lot, but those folks want to own the vehicle and not complete the lease. Reading this, it says exactly what I said. If you finance a car, the bank owns the car. If your insurance doesn't pay off the car, you owe what's left. That's what GAP is. The only difference is that you also owe the interest on any remaining payments because leases don't have early payoff like financing does. If the insurance company pays out more than the remaining lease payments + residual, Ford can't just keep that difference.
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Sep 20, 2023 16:24
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Yeah you're right about them not keeping the overage. It's something I didn't really consider to be a likely scenario. Probably more likely in the last 2 years with used car prices being nuts. My Expedition would probably be a wash right now. I'm wrong about that, learned something new today. I just assumed the leasing company got to keep the upside as well. Maybe it varies by state, but in Texas, if I traditionally finance the car, I'm the registered owner of the vehicle. The title to the vehicle has my name on it, and listed as the owner on the registration paperwork with the state. The bank is a lienholder against the title. Similar to my house. I'm on the deed to my house, but the bank holds the lien against it until I pay the mortgage off. My leased vehicle is owned by CABT LLC, their name is on the vehicle registration as the owner, and their name is on the title. When I bought out a Ford lease previously, the title was held by CABT LLC, and since ownership is changing hands, it generates a taxable sale here in Texas. A new title was generated in my name for the vehicle. One of the many reasons leasing here in Texas sucks compared to most states. You get to pay full sales tax on the lease, and then pay sales tax again if you buy the lease out since the title changes hands. skipdogg fucked around with this message at 18:07 on Sep 20, 2023 |
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Sep 20, 2023 17:54
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skipdogg posted:Yeah you're right about them not keeping the overage. It's something I didn't really consider to be a likely scenario. Probably more likely in the last 2 years with used car prices being nuts. My Expedition would probably be a wash right now. I'm wrong about that, learned something new today. I just assumed the leasing company got to keep the upside as well. You're right that it does change what name is on the vehicle, but it doesn't really change how much money you owe and to who. It's just more likely to be under water on a lease than on a purchase because the lease is designed for you to end up with exactly 0 equity at the end. Leases basically exist for weird tax loophole reasons and so most of the impact is on that side. KillHour fucked around with this message at 18:19 on Sep 20, 2023 |
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Sep 20, 2023 18:16
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KillHour posted:You're right that it does change what name is on the vehicle, but it doesn't really change how much money you owe and to who. It's just more likely to be under water on a lease than on a purchase because the lease is designed for you to end up with exactly 0 equity at the end. What about in a "smart-buy" program? For a V-6 Altima perhaps?
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Sep 20, 2023 21:30
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DildenAnders posted:a "smart-buy" program? For a V-6 Altima perhaps? This seems like an oxymoron or maybe 
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Sep 21, 2023 00:13
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