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zedprime
Jun 9, 2007

yospos

Evil Robot posted:

What's the insurance cost like in used luxury EVs?
E-tron GT tempting till I quoted the insurance and it's like $150 more an month than a Mach E, which is almost but not quite double.

Not bad for something they are advertising as Porsche adjacent but not what I'm looking for.

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zedprime
Jun 9, 2007

yospos
The indicator will probably be if they ever hit sub-10k because unless Tesla makes some very big pivots on what they consider an acceptable supply chain, they are going to hit a price floor where junkyards are chopping them for profits as insurance companies desperately try not to total Teslas for small whoopsie doodles because the part is 6+ months back ordered.

Anyway with Tesla's track record on user self service or even independent garage service, even if the parts are out there I'd still be ready to call a $10k model 3 purely disposable in case of mechanical issues.

zedprime
Jun 9, 2007

yospos
Also there are ground rules if you don't feel like trading cars in every 6 months because you tried shopping purely on features and numbers:

Don't buy a model you've never test driven
Don't buy a used car you haven't test driven and gotten mechanically inspected.

A full service agent will negotiate coupons but except for specific make, models, and finance structuring, will tend to cost you more than what they save you. In case of used shopping they can also manage getting a mechanics inspection. All this stuff costs money on money so :shrug:

A partial service agent (ex. Costco car buying) saves you some running around looking for the right package or avoiding dealerships with crap service and should theoretically skip the negotiation step. But they aren't fully executing a transaction, you just go into their partner dealership and reference your quote and they are free to jerk you around or sell you extra junk.

zedprime
Jun 9, 2007

yospos
Not having a touch screen is the correct UIX but you're going to have your own personal taste. No contest, you can't use a touchscreen without putting yourself in danger while a knob and hard buttons are usable with your eyes on the road to do routine UI stuff.

I've been in a few different rentals since infotainment screens became standard and Mazda's is my favorite because of the no-touchscreen and the relative size of screen to dash and physical controls.

They've added capacitive touch back in to some of the later Mazda models but it behooves you to use the dial and buttons which were forged in the UIX fires of not having a touchscreen fallback and work well.

zedprime
Jun 9, 2007

yospos
CX-50 is mostly positives and overall more car from the width and length and you also pay for it. They are pushing hard to get it to replace the CX-5 in popularity probably so they can focus on manufacturing only the Mazda 3 platform while still reaping market differentiation.

I got a CX-5 also in 21. Looking at just the specs, I'd probably get a CX-50 now unless the piggier dimensions removed all the zoom zoom. While you're on the lot its worth trying both if only cause it's like $5k less for a signature CX-5.

zedprime
Jun 9, 2007

yospos

Travic posted:

What is the forum's opinion on CarMax? I'm thinking about getting a Civic Type R in the future, but dealerships wont let me test drive one. Everyone tells me to go to CarMax because I can test drive theirs. And the one near me seems to have a good one. Should I just wait until a dealership has one and skip the test drive? I know very little about CarMax and their quality.
You drive the car at CarMax and then if you like it but don't want to buy the one at CarMax because you want a new one or a blue one then you go order/buy the car where you get that option.

zedprime
Jun 9, 2007

yospos
There's 2 types of people selling a 1 year old Type R. The first is if the OP wasn't here getting advice and buy it sight unseen after just testing a Civic and realize they can't live with the Type R-isms as a daily driver and get rid of it. The second is someone who keeps breaking it doing stupid stuff and doesn't want to keep paying for repairs in time or money.

If I know anything at all about statistics that means a 50% chance the car is going to be annoying.

zedprime
Jun 9, 2007

yospos

Pixelante posted:

Testing driving a Honda HR-V tomorrow. What should I keep in mind while driving it? I've never test driven something before.
Universal:
Do you like driving it?
Do you understand how the infotainment works and like it?
Will the USB ports work for your family and friend charger situation?
Can you work with the storage set up? Extremely important for a HR-V because it sucks at this. If you carry around anything weird and or important bring it with to try and load it.

New car:
Figure out what options or packages are in your budget and plan to cross shop them to understand what it means to live with or without them

Used car:
If this is your first time test driving you aren't going to be diagnosing mechanical problems, the pre purchase inspection is for that. But you still have a very important job of figuring out the used car foibles and making sure you can live with them before you waste time on mechanical stuff. Do the doors shut weird? Do the windows work? Do the USB ports have dodge contacts ?Does it make a weird sound getting on the highway? If yes, can you live with it?

zedprime
Jun 9, 2007

yospos
As a renter I can first handed tell you not to buy the cars I rent.

zedprime
Jun 9, 2007

yospos
You are on the right track looking at Corrolas, Camrys, Civics, and Accords if you need a car right now or else. You can also rent until a Prius shows up.

If you're just sticker and feature shopping what's on the lot right now for immediate purchase and are ok with crossovers I'd also look at Rav 4s and CR-Vs.

You could also consider a Mazda 3. It's straying a little from some of the important aspects but gaining in comfort if you jive with Mazda interiors (which I do).

zedprime
Jun 9, 2007

yospos

Edward Mass posted:

My 2016 Volkswagen Golf is worth more dead than alive, so I am in the market for a car.

Proposed Budget: 10k up front, 20k financed (30k total)
New or Used: Will accept used
Body Style: 4-door sedan, hatchback preferred
How will you be using the car?: Point A to point B, mainly
What aspects are most important to you?: Would prefer an EV with NACS
You should buy a Prius but if you're married to NACS and don't want a used 3 or Y you need to navigate the thorny adapter market because in built NACS isn't coming till MY 2025.

GM and Ford have announced OEM programs for adapters this year but the Ford adapters at least are already backordered to summer. Third party adapters varyingly exist but I need someone smarter than me to explain how it won't set my battery on fire because there are secret sauce communication protocols that are preventing simple rewiring to a different form factor.

zedprime
Jun 9, 2007

yospos
You can tell we are in the dark future because pick ups and SUVs have finished their transformations into full-size-vans-but-worse yet are the popular options filling the used market.

But also, while any random full size van sold as a cargo variant can have any number of seats in any configuration you want installed (depending like the article says on your local regulations and insurance), if talking about seats you want to put your kid into you're probably not going to beat the safety ratings of trucks or minivans. Passenger vans at least will come closer.

If you can fit your gear in a minivan with the third row removed I'd absolutely go with that. Bed toppers loving blow as previously noted. If you need to deal with a bit of second row fuckery I would still deal because the market after that for having a work vehicle for the nature of your gear and transporting your kid safely is a combo full size van and a Prius.

zedprime
Jun 9, 2007

yospos
The chicken tax had the result somewhat relevant to the difficulty of OP finding a Goldilocks passenger van because it meant on paper the US was importing eleventy billion Transit Connects but due to value added services they all got chopped into cargo vans.

Twerk from Home posted:

Ford sold the transit in a two-row "crew van" configuration from the factory for a couple model years here. Looks like they closed orders Feb last year and it's gone for '24: https://www.fordtransitusaforum.com/threads/2023-ford-transit-crewvan-faces-last-order-date-2-16.92945/
Yeah, I imagine it's really hard to compete with truck fever if your use case is work crew plus cargo or tools.

Europe gets to keep these style cargo vans on the lot because the default work vehicle is a van instead of a pickup, for reference.

zedprime
Jun 9, 2007

yospos
In other words the "when" of financing is after you have agreed on price and trade in value. They'll want a payment method in mind when drafting the bill of sale.

It's hard to gotcha on price negotiations because anyone can change their mind at any time up till invoices or bills of sale are signed so if you get a sweet discount for being a bumbling bad loan taker earlier in the conversation they're just going to sigh and gently caress with the invoice when you whip out a credit union pre-approval.

Reiterating you need to come with outside financing even if you want to use the dealers unless you have an advertised (by dealer or manufacturer) rate you are planning to use. Dealers have an incentive to increase your rate in a non-transparent way because they basically get all that extra interest as a commission.

zedprime
Jun 9, 2007

yospos
Have you heard the good news? The Prius died for our sins.

Your requirements sum up to a mainstream car or crossover you fit in. Mazda 3, Toyota Prius, Corolla or Camry, Honda Civic or Accord.

I'd rather be in one of those than the small crossovers if you're talking about nice to drive but if you dislike sitting in any of those it may be worth also investigating a Mazda CX-30, Toyota Corolla Cross, Honda HR-V. These are technically bad cars but might be right when your requirements are a car you like.

You can just barely get into base "real" crossovers: CX-5, Rav 4 or CR-V which you may more seriously consider depending on your fit into the above. Nothing you ask for justifies the price of these but they are out there when the hardest thing in your list is "will I fit."

zedprime
Jun 9, 2007

yospos
You'll get better recommendations filling out the template but you're probably looking for the most Rav 4 or CR-V you can afford.

In the used space there's some more or less options depending on your budget and personal preferences ex. The Scion Xb isn't as high as a crossover but it's boxy nature makes it easier to get in and out which has made it popular with the grandpa faction.

There's the HR-V and C-HR (or Corolla Cross if you've got a bit more to spend) which is the least car you can buy on a lifted platform but these are relatively more recent, lower volume, and having the least car possible raised is usually annoying to live with. But it can help open the net when you want to find something cheap and in good shape.

zedprime
Jun 9, 2007

yospos
Yeah, you basically get the instant hit on drivability that comes with raising the car. But also to fit it in the crossover body profile while also matching or increasing storage cubes, there's usually dumb trunk area compromises like annoying wheel wells, seat back placement, seat back operation etc. compared to the equivalent sedan or even hatchback.

"But it's just a grocery getter" is also the killing blow as the trunk areas can require you to stack bags or pull down a seat to get a weeks grocery's in some of those trunk plans.

Again it's maybe not worth excluding for a cheap crossover dragnet but it's worth being aware to check it out and think if you can deal with it.

zedprime
Jun 9, 2007

yospos
I think you're already confirmed in the Rav 4 and Highlander zone but Mazda chat: a CX-5 is challenging with 2 car seats. Doable if the front seaters know what you're getting into but the driver is probably not getting their preferred position unless they are 5'5". CX-50 is needed to compete with the RAV4 layout on car seats.

CX-50 is just a Mazda 3 and the history of the CX30 and CX-50 to date haven't given any reason to believe they'll age different. CX-90 is probably ok to avoid it as the first model Mazda has ever trucked with a hybrid.

If you're balking at the RAV4 and Highlander Toyota tax you owe yourself looking a little harder at CR-V or a Pilot/Passport.

zedprime
Jun 9, 2007

yospos
Should be clear that a third row is only extra seating in very specific marketer dream lands like carpooling kids to soccer practice 10 minutes away. If any adults are involved or you're going further with more or bigger kids or have substantial gear that comes with the passengers you're probably still caravaning or else you should consider a minivan.

What third row really means is the second row can be in a spot that lets you avoid car seat interference and keep bigger kids knees from knocking the front seats. You don't need to avoid car seat interference or keeping kids knees out of the seat in front of them but it might be nice enough to make it into your money and space budget.

zedprime
Jun 9, 2007

yospos
How do I return a 7 year old car in a way it shows on their public sales figures? I want to be the -1 Chrysler 200s.

zedprime
Jun 9, 2007

yospos
I for one am glad mass market generic cars' higher trims either come with or have non-optional optional Fancy Rims because it indulges the secret 13 year old inside me.

zedprime
Jun 9, 2007

yospos
6250 mi/yr
Rav 4 hybrid 41 city mpg, which gives 152 gal per year or
RAV 4 27 mpg, which gives 231 gal per year
Let's say charitably gas jumps back to $4.50
Rav 4 hybrid fuel cost per year is 684
Rav 4 fuel cost is 1039
So about $356 benefit per year

The hybrid tax is about $3k so you start making money around year 8. Not bad if you're going long but it wouldn't be a decider for me when the hybrids are still having trouble not flying off the lot which means you may be paying more in time or dealer markup than the above.

zedprime
Jun 9, 2007

yospos
I somehow bumbled into a brand new Mazda 3 in the Hertz loyalty lot and I think I need to start harassing the dealer about coupons on the top trim.

I still really want an electric car so I don't have to go to the gas station but I am increasingly having trouble justifying that for $10k besides the models I'm most interested in having occasional warranty gremlins still.

Meanwhile still the best interior trim and infotainment on any car I've been in for under $40k.

zedprime
Jun 9, 2007

yospos
RAV4s and working at whorehouses are both reasonable choices that work for certain intersections of people's lives.

zedprime
Jun 9, 2007

yospos
Your goal/trigger point for getting a cashier check is signing a purchase agreement or invoice. Sometimes dealerships let you do this remotely but it's not super popular yet. You may be asked to do a partial down payment by debit or credit card as part of finalizing the agreement before they agree you can have the car while you go back to the bank. You will want to plan like 4 hours of your day to deal with all this poo poo.

It's not a bad idea to just traipse in dum de dumb and take another test drive of the car you're actually going to purchase. There's sometimes small defects that can be warranty repaired while you work on paperwork and they do the old new car out the door detailing.

Normally I'd agree paying cash for a car is pants on head stupid but interest rates right now, hoo boy. I'd hedge and put half down if I had no interest in financing and plan to close out in a couple months assuming my situation still made cash make sense. Besides the sales process consider all angles of what that money can do for you compared to investment and retirement accounts, healthcare funds, home improvement etc. and even the current rates can melt away into free positive liquidity.

zedprime fucked around with this message at 17:38 on Apr 26, 2024

zedprime
Jun 9, 2007

yospos
I was $10k in the hole (needed some interstate ACH/Zelle from my dinosaur savings to my local bank) and didn't have my trade in title with me on a Saturday. They said see you back here on Tuesday or Wednesday and I drove off in the new car.

There's no telling what the local laws or accountants' level of risk avoidance or fee avoidance is so it's hard to be anything more than aware that you're going to have to do business.

zedprime
Jun 9, 2007

yospos
People are not often smart about car reliability. The Koreans are not gonna match Toyota but that means you may get some post warranty SNAFUs on some probabilistic basis. Any given mass market car is gonna be affordable to maintain through 200kmi if you follow preventative schedules though. You're mostly dealing with annoyances these days instead of early totalling, dangerous things breaking etc.

Among other things you need to filter completely incomparable things people are silly about, like managing to drive a Prius to death by ignoring all preventative maintenance and then balking at actually needing to do routine timing or transmission work at 100k on a Korean.

zedprime
Jun 9, 2007

yospos
Well there's a lot of them so if you can only learn how to steal 1 type of cat you're going to pick Prius no matter the safeguards.

zedprime
Jun 9, 2007

yospos
A defensive driving practical course is like 50% how not to die during changing lanes. You should definitely take one if that's your anxiety.

You can call or visit the website of any insurance agency at any time and walk away with a quote in 20-30 minutes knowing as little as a year, make, and model because they are sales businesses built on quoting you as fast as possible to try and set the hook on using their insurance.

Not to turn you away from the thread because we are here to answer questions like this but do you have any friends with a car to talk to? The Internet is all well and good but you seem to be operating on an extreme amount of lack of awareness of cars for an American and to reiterate again a lot of the practical advice is time and region specific. If you have a car friend they can at least get you speaking the language and knowing base expectations and you can come back to the internet when you're ready for the full refinement of the process.

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zedprime
Jun 9, 2007

yospos
Negotation in 2024 is usually you find a car forum, subreddit, or lease hacker forum where people are saying what they bought your car and trim for recently and you need to match it somewhat to your local geography. Then when you go in you have two choices where you can either lead the salesperson on a grand adventure of feints, counter feints, counter counter feints, grand charismatic maneuvres and verbal melees etc. until you hit the price you researched. Or you feign complete and total apathy until you tell them with flat affect you will buy it for the price you researched and to give you a call if they can reach that price and start walking toward the door till they wave you down or call you later that month/quarter.

If you aren't going after certain trucks or models they can't keep on the lot and if you aren't in a hosed up local market they will usually have MSRP on the sticker and will gladly sell it to you with only a little tomfoolery and that's ok too.

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