AI meets BFC: Car Buying Thread: No Rentals and No Salvage Titles

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Ask/Tell > AI meets BFC: Car Buying Thread: No Rentals and No Salvage Titles

«‹›18 »

skipdogg: Nov 29, 2004; Resident SRT-4 Expert

GhostOfTomNook posted:

Yeah, I�m not going to insist on a *checks notes* Chrysler Pacifica, so it seems like we�ll end up with a Sienna Hybrid. I get the sense that Toyota dealers are being lovely with regard to markups and delays. Any general advice for getting ripped off as little as possible buying a new car in 2023?

Shop around. There are some Toyota dealers near me that are lovely with the markups and dealer installed accessories, and there are others that aren't. I'm in a fairly major metro area (San Antonio) and I can easily shop Austin and Houston area dealers as well. If you can get one at MSRP with very little bullshit added to it, I would go for it.

# ¿ Jun 27, 2023 17:27

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# ¿ May 21, 2024 04:40

skipdogg: Nov 29, 2004; Resident SRT-4 Expert

euphronius posted:

Good luck getting a new sienna hybrid

All Toyota Siennas are hybrid now. There is no other powertrain option.

There are 2 according to Toyota's website within 50 miles of me actually on the lot. It shouldn't be hard to get on the list for an in transit one though

# ¿ Jun 27, 2023 17:35

skipdogg: Nov 29, 2004; Resident SRT-4 Expert

GhostOfTomNook posted:

Awesome. Found the Sienna one.

Love to see $10,000 markup on base models. I'm extremely ready for a car-dealershipless future.

A little secret: Most Auto Manufacturers want the dealer model. You think Ford is going to setup a nationwide network of service centers? They're in the auto manufacturing business, not the auto service business.

It's pretty easy to avoid the dealerships with those sort of markups. Worst case you're an 89 dollar Southwest flight away from zero markup.

# ¿ Jun 27, 2023 18:30

skipdogg: Nov 29, 2004; Resident SRT-4 Expert

Scionix posted:

Dad wants to shop for a truck, never shopped a truck in my life, could use some help

Proposed Budget: 40-60k

New or Used: Either

Body Style: Truck. MUST HAVE: 6.5ft bed, skid plates, back seats, 4 wheel drive

How will you be using the car?: Light towing, moving dirt bikes/polaris ranger around, light offroading on bad/dirt roads and fields around a hunting lodge.

What aspects are most important to you?Aforementioned features above: 6.5 foot bed, back seats, 4 wheel drive, and skid plates. My dad will not be working on this thing himself, so a non-atrocious dealer experience and/or a good warranty would be a plus.

The 3 domestic full size trucks can all be configured the way he wants. Just need to check the right boxes on the order form.

A Silverado 1500 configured with CREW CAB, STANDARD BED, CUSTOM TRAIL BOSS, 4WD, is around 50K before you add any options. 79.4" box, crew cab, and the trail boss package includes the Z71 suspension with factory 2" body lift, and skid plates. Depending on options and engine choice it can get pretty close to your max budget. The LT trail boss starts at 60K and will be over budget.

You can also configure a Ford F150 in the way you want. A F150 XLT can be had with the SuperCrew cab and 6.5 ft bed. 4WD and the FX-4 package can be added. The FX-4 package includes the skid plates he wants. This is also going to be 50 to 60K depending on options

RAM has a 395 dollar option called "protection group" available that provides tow hooks and skid plates. You can also get a RAM 1500 configured the way he wants for under 60K depending on options.

They are wheeling and dealing on trucks these days though. We're back to the days of 10K off F150 XLT's with the 302A package again. Prices above are MSRP, and you should easily beat MSRP without even trying.

# ¿ Jul 7, 2023 06:47

skipdogg: Nov 29, 2004; Resident SRT-4 Expert

dupersaurus posted:

Setting aside any discussion of whether leasing is a good idea, if you are going to lease should you still make as big of a down payment as you can or are you better off just getting to a reasonable monthly payment and pocketing the rest?

Never put anything down on a lease. First months payment, that�s it.

# ¿ Jul 16, 2023 20:42

skipdogg: Nov 29, 2004; Resident SRT-4 Expert

GD_American posted:

I was doing due diligence on all the cars I hadn't considered but figured I'd check out, and somebody tell me- how in the gently caress is the same base model SXT Charger that Fred Flinstone bought new starting at 34 grand

Someone probably did the math on exactly the max amount car a military grade E-3 can afford at 15% apr, and priced the car accordingly.

They also don't sell for MSRP, one of my local dealers has a bunch of SXT's on the lot listed at almost 5K off MSRP and I bet there's still room to move on them.

Look at this beauty waiting for an enlisted person from one of the bases down I-35 to come snap it up. https://www.bluebonnetchryslerdodge.net/inventory/new-2023-dodge-charger-sxt-rwd-sedan-2c3cdxbg4ph536190/

# ¿ Jul 22, 2023 21:40

skipdogg: Nov 29, 2004; Resident SRT-4 Expert

Democratic Pirate posted:

We�ve been leasing a VW Atlas and the lease expires at the end of the year. I don�t like leasing and would prefer to purchase - are there any resources on calculating my options?

Our <30k miles SUV should be a dealer�s dream given the used car market. I�m wondering if there�s a path to buy the car and immediately trade in or sell it elsewhere and put the gains towards a new car.

The car had 14 miles on it when we leased, so we know it�s entire history and it�s been great for our needs. I�d be comfortable keeping it, but want to explore all the options. My in-laws have only leased, so my spouse�s experience is a new car every 3-4 years.

So depending on where you live, anytime the title changes hands it generates a taxable event. I'm in Texas and leasing is more expensive here because we pay tax on the value of the vehicle when we first lease it, and then pay tax again if we buy it. That sorts sucks compared to places where you just pay sales tax on the lease payment. There's a bunch of different scenarios where you live and what kind of deal you can negotiate.

Generally you have 3 options

1) Turn the lease in, pay the disposition fee and walk away. This is the ideal choice if the car is worth less than the lease buyout.
2) Pay the purchase price of the vehicle at the end of the lease and keep the car. I did this once on one of my leases. We liked the car, decided to keep it another year and a half.
3) YMMV on this, you can trade the car in early. I did this once as well, but it was like 6 years ago. The dealer gave me the difference between current value and the payoff, and I used it as equity towards my next car. I did not buy the car first in this scenario as that would have been a taxable transaction here in TX. This gets really location specific, I think California if you don't keep the car 14 days you can avoid the sales tax. I read that online somewhere, don't know for sure, don't live there. This may be moot if you live somewhere with no sales tax on vehicles.

Some automakers changed the rules on ending leases early in the last couple of years. I've only leased Ford's so I'm unfamiliar with the VW contract. There should be a section in the lease on buying it early, purchase price, lease end restrictions, etc. I think Ford doesn't allow you to buy the lease out/transfer equity the last 6 months of the lease now.

VW may have lease buyout restrictions in place (These are designed to get traffic back to their dealers and maintain an inventory of used vehicles). Carvana's website says they can't buy out VW Credit leases right now.

This what I would do:
Gather info about lease end purchase price and current "good" trade in value.
Check your lease paperwork, online account, etc for lease end processes, procedures, etc. Figure out what your options are.
If you want to buy the car, take into account Tax, Title, License fees, because those will be charged (This could quickly wipe out the difference between current value and purchase price depending), but when you trade it in you should pay less sales tax on the next car, so this could be close to a wash.

I would lean keeping the car at this point. Depending on what you want to buy next, the car market is still a bit rough. You've got a low mileage vehicle that you know 100% of the history on that should last for a long time if properly maintained.

If you do buy the car at lease end, go in prepared like you would any other car purchase. Get your financing arranged in advance from your credit union or bank. Decline all the extras they're going to offer you. They can't change the price of the car, but they still can take you to the cleaners in the finance office. I've heard of bullshit fees to make the car certified preowned plus all the usual extended warranty, tire protection, buying up the interest rate on the loan bullshit.

# ¿ Jul 24, 2023 16:27

skipdogg: Nov 29, 2004; Resident SRT-4 Expert

Porfiriato posted:

Help me AI, it's been literally 15 years since I last bought a new car and I feel like I am totally out of the loop for current best practices as far as shopping for a new car and not getting ripped off at a dealer (or elsewhere).

Proposed Budget: $40-45k as a ceiling but less is definitely fine
New or Used: New, unless there's a recent used model that would be a standout bargain
Body Style: small to midsize SUV/crossover
How will you be using the car?: mostly city driving with 0-3 passengers, hauling stuff around that would usually fit in the back of an SUV (ie don't need an open truck bed), occasional and possibly unscheduled roadtrips
What aspects are most important to you? Reliability, cost of fuel/maintenance, environmental responsibility

I have been eyeing PHEV models in particular. Ford has the Escape which can run all-electric for short distances and qualifies for the EV tax credit, so I've been looking at that, but I don't know if it's a good model or if the tax credit is worth it vs just buying a cheaper vehicle. I would consider all-electric except for the "unscheduled roadtrips" part since they would be work-related and not going on them would not be an option.

Hyundai and Kia have some reasonably priced options but I gather that their recent (pre-2022) cars are trivial to break into and currently account for a ridiculously high percentage of stolen cars, and I'm a little worried that even if they've fixed the problem your average thief is not going to be smart enough to realize my car isn't one of the stealable ones until after they've already smashed my window and cracked my steering column.

I would buy a RAV4 Hybrid. I'm a huge Ford homer and I wouldn't buy an Escape. I'm sure they're a fine car but there is no reason not to buy the Toyota.

# ¿ Jul 24, 2023 19:29

skipdogg: Nov 29, 2004; Resident SRT-4 Expert

smackfu posted:

I mean, not being able to actually buy one is a pretty good reason.

What�s wrong with the Escape hybrid?

There's nothing wrong with the Escape Hybrid to my current knowledge. I just think there is no compelling reason to buy one when the Rav4 Hybrid exists. MSRP on them is going to be pretty close on comparably equipped vehicles so it's not a situation where the Escape is way less expensive. I'm sure the Escape is a fine vehicle. I've owned 11 Ford's and counting so far in my life, and I've been happy with all of them. Now if the Escape was 5K less than the Toyota, definitely go with the Escape. Ford's hybrid powertrain from what I know is pretty solid. The RAV4 is just the gold standard in the segment and if you're paying the same money you might as well buy the Toyota.

RAV4 Hybrids are getting easier to find. One of my local dealers has 3 on the lot at MSRP, and 15 more in transit or being built. Maybe you wait a month or two for a color or trim you really want, but they're out there and obtainable (unlike the Rav4 prime)

# ¿ Jul 25, 2023 16:17

skipdogg: Nov 29, 2004; Resident SRT-4 Expert

davecrazy posted:

Navigator vs Escalade vs Grand Wagonner

Fight!

Budget is 115 or so. The Escalade with the supercharged V8 is probably off the table.

I really liked the interior of the III Grand Wagonner.

Only Navigator I�ve been in recently was a car service taking me to the airport.

How long are you planning on keeping these vehicles? Leasing?

If leasing, go with whoever has the best lease program.

My personal pick if buying would be the Escalade. The V is definitely off the table. I think they're 160 MSRP and in my area they're going for 200K from the flippers.

The Navigator is nice, but I can't bring myself to drop almost 6 figures on one. I don't trust the Grand Wagoneer long term. I don't trust FCA in general very much. The Grand Wagoneer doesn't seem to be holding its value very well either, all these cars are going to depreciate pretty quickly the first few years, but the Jeep is the worst of the 3.

My unsolicited advice though, unless one of those vehicles has some killer feature you can't live without, like the 30 way perfect position seats on the Navigator, or the 3+ foot screen of the Escalade is to skip the luxury models and instead look at a highly optioned Tahoe, Yukon or Expedition. They'll be almost as nice, and you could probably save 20 grand or more. If I was going to drop over 100K on a family car it'd be a BMX X7 M60i

For instance I currently have a 2020 Expedition Limited with the Stealth 303A package. (22" rims, blacked out trim, etc). MSRP on it was 73K. I rather pocket the 20K difference between the Navigator and the Expedition. I'm eyeballing the 2024 Expedition Limited with the 304A Stealth Performance package next year when my lease is up on this one. (450 HP, performance suspension, etc). I also don't feel like I'm old enough for a Lincoln... maybe once I'm in my 50's.

Check out a Yukon Denali Ultimate, a Tahoe High Country, or even an Expedition Limited/King Ranch/Platinum and see if the Escalade, or Navigator is worth the extra 15 to 30K. If you really want one of those 3 though, I'm going Escalade. The Yukon Denali though has always subtly let people know "I have Escalade money, but don't need to flash it"

skipdogg fucked around with this message at 03:15 on Jul 27, 2023

# ¿ Jul 27, 2023 03:11

skipdogg: Nov 29, 2004; Resident SRT-4 Expert

Motronic posted:

But what she wants. You can afford it and it will make her happy. The. End.

This is the way.

# ¿ Jul 28, 2023 00:58

skipdogg: Nov 29, 2004; Resident SRT-4 Expert

davecrazy posted:

I had to go to a 3rd dealer to find one (they had 3 total). The first two only had a used 22 Wagoneer (with the 5.7 Hemi) between them.

Acres of Grand Chrokee Larados though. Big change from �22 when we bought my wife�s JGC and two other people showed up on the lot to make an offer on the car when we were still signing the paperwork.

Thanks for that detailed write up and sharing your experience.

# ¿ Jul 29, 2023 15:37

skipdogg: Nov 29, 2004; Resident SRT-4 Expert

Explosionface posted:

But if the car goes inside, where does all the junk go?

Someone is paying rent at all those self storage places you drive past. I live in TX where we don't have basements and there are more self storage places near me than gas stations and grocery stores combined. I'm guessing basement havers store their junk in the basement.

# ¿ Aug 30, 2023 17:48

skipdogg: Nov 29, 2004; Resident SRT-4 Expert

Democratic Pirate posted:

The dealership vibe has definitely changed since 2020. It�s obvious why, just interesting to witness first hand. Back then they were quick to offer avenues to make a deal, now they were fine with us walking out to think things over.

I posted about this a few weeks ago - our lease on a 2021 VW Atlas is up at year end. Residual is $25k and they quoted $4k of equity. Lease for newer models start at $150 more per month with that equity factored in. Main test drive difference was the updated infotainment system, which is now all one touch screen instead of the dials in the 2021. We prefer the old style.

Any other models we should consider? We need an around town kid hauler with the occasional long trip thrown in. Priority is safety. The size of the Atlas works well with the strollers and car seats so we want a similar sized vehicle.

Our leased car has 24k miles on it in 3 years, so we�re leaning towards just buying it out with help from our long term funds and hoping interest rates are lower in another few years.

I would buy it out. Leasing sucks right now with the higher interest rates. My expedition lease is up in 5 months and right now it�s better to take the promo financing from Ford on a purchase than it is to lease right now.

I wouldn�t count on interest rates changing much in the next 2-3 years.

# ¿ Aug 31, 2023 01:23

skipdogg: Nov 29, 2004; Resident SRT-4 Expert

KillHour posted:

While we're on the subject of impractical luxury purchases, I need a taste check on this config because I can't tell if it works or not

https://configurator.porsche.com/porsche-code/PRMVSIS6

Uhh... Those are some decisions for sure. I'm not qualified to answer because I despise tan interior materials.

# ¿ Aug 31, 2023 18:38

skipdogg: Nov 29, 2004; Resident SRT-4 Expert

You would be better off, and have a more enjoyable time literally lighting 20,000 dollars on fire than buying a used Maserati.

On the scale of luxury cars you don't want to own out of warranty, I'm pretty sure Maserati is number 1.

I wouldn't even recommend it if you were a weekend mechanic with a lift, a full set of tools, and intimate knowledge on how to fix vehicles.

There's a reason they've depreciated like that. If you're looking for a used luxury car almost any option is better than a used Maserati. I wouldn't take one for free from someone.

# ¿ Sep 18, 2023 22:29

skipdogg: Nov 29, 2004; Resident SRT-4 Expert

davecrazy posted:

But the Italian car. Do it! What�s the worst that happens?

He spends another 20K trying to keep the 20K Maserati running and eventually gets so tired of it he pays a scrap yard to pick it up for him.

# ¿ Sep 18, 2023 23:55

skipdogg: Nov 29, 2004; Resident SRT-4 Expert

Hadlock posted:

My brother in Christ have you met our Lord and Savior the BMW 7 series. Depending on year and options (ours will self park, which is a neat party trick) that's like a $70-115k car new, but can be bought with factory warranty and 35k mi 3 years old, off lease for like $40k +/-

We bought ours in Jan 2021 with like 38k on the clock, about to roll over 80k miles (so like, 14k mi per year? Pretty good considering it's the primary car for two adults) I think we have $6200 in maintenance and $1600 of that is in tires. Probably would have been way less had we not taken it to SF BMW for the 50k service. The only abnormal issues so far have been

1. Wheel tilt sometimes stops early. Same with the seat leg extender thing. Hitting the memory button enough times will eventually get it in the right spot. Weirdly works perfectly when it's either very hot or very cold out, probably a bad ground somewhere

2. Needed to add about a gallon of coolant ($35 for the BMW specific stuff at Autozone) to the reservoir around 65k miles. Apparently not totally uncommon

3. Leather dash has started to peel up at the windshield, adhesive sticking it to the foam pulled back about 1" in some areas. In our defense we did street park it with the windshield facing west for an entire year in The South

Car has the same general inline 6 and transmission as most other full size BMW so parts aren't too crazy to find, and every major population center has a garage or nine that specializes in German cars, vs Maserati which you'll be lucky if there's more than two garages outside of the largest cities

Big downside is that if you live in Boston it can be difficult to street park, apparently

Consider yourself lucky. This guy bought a 750 from Carmax, and has already had 22K of repairs done to it, and is on pace to have almost 50K of repairs by the time the Carmax warranty expires.

https://www.tiktok.com/embed/7275071215641840939

# ¿ Sep 19, 2023 15:54

skipdogg: Nov 29, 2004; Resident SRT-4 Expert

KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:

As far as I can tell the one payment lease only makes sense if you plan to pay off the lease AND buy the car outright at its residual value, de-facto buying the car outright with the credit.

Pretty much this. It's not unheard of to get an insane deal in some cases on one pay leases as well, but it's not common. People who are trying to capture the EV credit are doing this a lot, but those folks want to own the vehicle and not complete the lease.

KillHour posted:

Wouldn't totaling a leased car be like totaling a financed car? The insurance company would pay what the car was worth at the time of the accident, and if that is more than the residual + remaining lease payments, you would keep the difference. If you paid your lease off at the start, it would just be the residual, so you'd keep more.

Nope. In a lease you don't own the car. My car is owned by CABT LLC which is who Ford uses to hold the leases. Insurance pays them. Ford leases include a GAP Waiver clause.

Here's the legalese from my lease contract, looks like in the event of a total loss on a single pay lease they will credit you back some funds. YMMV, this is Ford specific.

code:

THEFT OR DESTRUCTION OF VEHICLE If the Vehicle is stolen or
destroyed, the amount You owe will depend upon whether You had
the required insurance in effect and the claim for the Vehicle is fully
honored. If Finance Company does not receive the full insurance
proceeds, You will pay to Finance Company the following: (a) the
Unpaid Adjusted Capitalized Cost, plus (b) all other amounts then due
under the lease (except charges for excess wear and use and
mileage), less (c) any insurance proceeds received by Finance
Company.
GAP Waiver If You had in effect the insurance required under this
lease and Finance Company receives the full insurance proceeds,
You will not be required to pay the difference (GAP) between the
Unpaid Adjusted Capitalized Cost and the insurance proceeds. You
will only be required to pay: (a) any past due Monthly Payments, plus
(b) the amount of the applicable insurance deductible, plus (c) all
other amounts then due under this lease (except charges for excess
wear and use and mileage).
Even if the Vehicle is insured, if You have a Monthly Payment Lease,
until Finance Company receives payment of the insurance proceeds,
You agree to continue to make Your Monthly Payments. If You have
an Advance Payment Lease, after any insurance proceeds are paid,
You will receive a credit equal to the Base Monthly Payment multiplied
by the number of remaining months in the Lease Term in Months,
beginning with the month immediately following the date of theft or
destruction.

# ¿ Sep 20, 2023 16:09

skipdogg: Nov 29, 2004; Resident SRT-4 Expert

Yeah you're right about them not keeping the overage. It's something I didn't really consider to be a likely scenario. Probably more likely in the last 2 years with used car prices being nuts. My Expedition would probably be a wash right now. I'm wrong about that, learned something new today. I just assumed the leasing company got to keep the upside as well.

Maybe it varies by state, but in Texas, if I traditionally finance the car, I'm the registered owner of the vehicle. The title to the vehicle has my name on it, and listed as the owner on the registration paperwork with the state. The bank is a lienholder against the title. Similar to my house. I'm on the deed to my house, but the bank holds the lien against it until I pay the mortgage off.

My leased vehicle is owned by CABT LLC, their name is on the vehicle registration as the owner, and their name is on the title.

When I bought out a Ford lease previously, the title was held by CABT LLC, and since ownership is changing hands, it generates a taxable sale here in Texas. A new title was generated in my name for the vehicle. One of the many reasons leasing here in Texas sucks compared to most states. You get to pay full sales tax on the lease, and then pay sales tax again if you buy the lease out since the title changes hands.

skipdogg fucked around with this message at 18:07 on Sep 20, 2023

# ¿ Sep 20, 2023 17:54

skipdogg: Nov 29, 2004; Resident SRT-4 Expert

What a neat site. Sienna vs. Navigator (they don't have the current Expedition on there, but they're the same size)

# ¿ Nov 6, 2023 21:52

skipdogg: Nov 29, 2004; Resident SRT-4 Expert

Dec of last year the MSRP on a Model Y LR AWD was 65,990 before taxes/incentives ect. Today Elon is selling the same vehicle for 48,990.

Personally I think it's hilarious that this happened and folks are super pissed about it. I mean I'm glad I'm not the one holding the bag.

# ¿ Nov 7, 2023 20:54

skipdogg: Nov 29, 2004; Resident SRT-4 Expert

Kaiser Schnitzel posted:

Is this kind of '$6000 worth of worthless dealer add-ons that I'm sure 'can't be removed'' generally a sign of a sleazy dealer or is it fairly normal?

Sleazy dealer.

# ¿ May 10, 2024 20:39

skipdogg: Nov 29, 2004; Resident SRT-4 Expert

Motronic posted:

Absolute sleazeball dealer who makes a practice of this. Just go to a different one.

Why does a new car need/have "painteless dent repair"? Why do I need "identrity theft protection" with my car? Are you going to lose my persoinal information if I do business with you?

If I had to guess dealers do this for bank financing limitations. Say an auto lender will loan 115% of the cars MSRP (lets you roll in taxes, fees, maybe some neg equity), but if you add warranties, products etc, they might loan 130% of MSRP.

Just a guess I have no idea.

# ¿ May 10, 2024 22:38

skipdogg: Nov 29, 2004; Resident SRT-4 Expert

IOwnCalculus posted:

Destination and doc fees, in my experience, have been treated as completely non-negotiable, and somehow the doc fee always ends up within $5 of the state-mandated maximum for work that they have to do to be able to sell you the loving car.

It's all horseshit which is why the only number you should truly care about is the out the door price.

Even if that's true you're still giving dealerships too much credit; it's entirely "these things are almost pure profit".

Well yeah the add ons are pure profit. They're also a way to get the bank to loan more money on the car. The bank won't finance a 6500 markup on a 25K car because it blows the LTV out of of the water. Hide the markup in bullshit addons that the bank will loan on, and you get your extra profit financed. If a bank will only loan 115% LTV on the car itself, but will go to 130% or even 140%LTV with addons like warranties and stuff, gotta sell those hide the markup in them.

# ¿ May 10, 2024 23:17

skipdogg: Nov 29, 2004; Resident SRT-4 Expert

Nodelphi posted:

Oh I totally agree. Fun, can seat 5 and mildly capable, that�s all I�m looking for.

Get the Lexus you want. That�s what I would do.

I�m going to get flamed for this but I love full size truck based SUV�s. I have an Expedition with the stealth package and 4wd and it�s crazy comfortable and capable. Gas mileage is poo poo though. There�s a reason they sell so many Yukons, Tahoes and Expeditions though.

# ¿ May 13, 2024 01:37

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# ¿ May 21, 2024 04:40

skipdogg: Nov 29, 2004; Resident SRT-4 Expert

Steve French posted:

Averaged 27mpg driving round trip to Mammoth from Tahoe last weekend, with a huge roof box on top, in a diesel Yukon. poo poo mileage, but can be a lost less poo poo

Oh wow the 3 liter diesel does that well on the highway? That�s drat nice.

The �ecoboost� in the Expedition I have gets like 14.5 city and may kiss 20 hwy.

# ¿ May 13, 2024 05:14

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Ask/Tell > AI meets BFC: Car Buying Thread: No Rentals and No Salvage Titles

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