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I've been thinking of Saabs recently. I dunno why. I live in Finland and Saabs are common here, we used to build them! The OG 900 is the quintessential SAAB to me. I always thought it looked kinda ugly, I associate it with old men and women driving 70kph on 100kph roads despite it's turbo associations. I've been hankering for some kind of late 80s or early 90s car to have as a project car. I was pretty set on some kind of japanese pickup or car but it's difficult, they all go for €€€€€ nowadays. Maybe that's why I am looking at Saabs. I'm looking for something quirky or odd, but something that's also well made and preferably easy to work on and with plenty of spare parts. I think Saab parts should be easy here in the world but I dunno if they are reliable or easy to work on. I get the impression they are a good example of an engineer's car. But not sure if that's in a good way or bad way. Here's a finnish dealer selling a 900, they had a video ad out for this car on facebook, which is.. odd? Looks nice but I would prefer a black saab, ideally a convertible. I have been reading forums too and I get the impression the 2.1 liters are better than the 2.0s engines, even in fuel economy. Then there's the talk about 8 and 16 valves, it's all a bit confusing which car comes with what but I would want a 16 valve turbo engine. A huge point of a Saab is the turbo. https://www.rinta-jouppi.com/ajoneuvohaku/Saab/900/387287/ Edit, managed to get the video from FB. I thought it was neat: https://i.imgur.com/OZv0sjy.mp4 His Divine Shadow fucked around with this message at 07:47 on Jun 2, 2023 |
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Jun 2, 2023 07:06
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I'm aware yeah it's still an 80s car and all that entails, when I speak of reliability I mean, after the work has been put into it servicing it, can it be considered reliable, or is like an Italian sports car, inherently fickle? Some saab movies: I get the impression Saab always liked to draw parallels between the cars and it's air plane division. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yyphhq47gC4 A longer saab video, though I am not a fan of the Tesla comparisons: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BY-xA2w7JHQ
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Jun 3, 2023 07:20
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I gotta say. Saab 90s look real pretty as well.  These older style fronts really have... style?  And I think the black saabs look the nicest, just a good color on them, though I've seen some nice green ones.
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Jun 3, 2023 16:38
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I've been doing research and the Saab 90 is actually a very finnish car and was only made in the valmet plant in Finland. I also read that the Saabs made at the valmet plant had better paint jobs and better rust protection. The Saab 90 however seems like it only ever was made with carbureted engines and no Turbo what I can tell. It also only ever came in a three door configuration. Here's a video on the finnishness of the saab 90 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JMclS5S3UT4 I do like the looks of the 99, the 90 and the 900s. I kinda prefer the look of the older variants but what will dictate is likely what I will find first at a suitable price and condition. Another thing I am unsure about is what kind of project am I looking for... -A cheap project car requiring a good deal of work that I can put a lot of effort into restoring -Or something that's already in decent enough shape to start driving at once, but still something I can put effort into making better. And do I want to go for authenticity and get an older Saab and restore it so I can register it as a museum car, or do I want to do something more hilarious like getting an earlier 80s model and putting a more modern 16V fuel injected turbo engine in it and do other mods to the car? Or maybe I just wanna save myself the effort and instead look for a 16V 900 turbo Saab from the start. One thing that discourages me about the older 80s cars is they're from what I can tell very thirsty and I don't enjoy paying for fuel. The later engines seem to be more fuel economical despite being higher performance. Wonders of fuel injection and double the valves I guess.
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Jun 4, 2023 07:07
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That's a nice looking car. I'm all about the OG Saabs though. One thing I am wondering, do all Saabs after 1978 come with turbos, or are all turbo equipped Saabs branded with the turbo decal? How do you know if it has a turbo without looking under the hood? Also which cars have the low pressure turbos and which have the high pressure ones, or rather how can you tell?
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Jun 4, 2023 16:27
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Is there any way to know aside from asking the seller or seeing inside the engine compartment? Or do all the Turbos proclaim it?
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Jun 4, 2023 19:26
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I'm learning... There are two types of turbos too. There's low pressure turbos and high pressure turbos.  The low pressure turbo is called by some here a "gubb-turbo" or "old man turbo", it's more to improve engine performance across the range from what I gather, without sacrificing fuel economy. While a high pressure turbo maybe does the same, but also gives higher performance at the upper end of the spectrum. If I understand things correctly. High pressure ones have stuff like APC and intercoolers I believe too.
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Jun 5, 2023 08:12
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Been looking a few days, seems turbos are rare and command a premium even here. I found one cheap turbo and it had 541,000 km on the odometer and generally not in nice shape. You find plenty of nice looking 900s with 16V injected engines but no turbos, 2.1l engines are not that uncommon on the later 900s either. Also 90s and 99s. All in the €1500 - 3400 range. The moment it mentions turbo, 9500 - 20,000 €. I saw cheap examples with the grille on the side of the hood, but from engine photos I did not think they where turbo variants. Also found some nice looking 900s, but with automatic transmissions and that's a big no for me. So I guess I need to consider how much I want a turbo.... Or how difficult adding one is...
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Jun 6, 2023 06:50
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So adding a turbo to a non turbo engine is on the level of total engine swap is easier. Based on what I am reading. Better give that up. I'm thinking what do I want. Do I really need to be that focused on performance? It's weird that it should be so hard to figure out what you want, it's my own mind for fucks sake. So anyway after mulling this over and I think my desires are in the line of a retro summer car, something I can drive in the summer months only along finnish country roads and that I can service and work on in winter. I'm really liking the looks of Saab 99s the more I see them and they can be had in good shape, low mileages for OK money (sub 4000€). So at the moment I am thinking a decent low mileage 99 might be a good fit for me. And if I find something better, well these cars only seem to be appreciating in value. This 1982 99 has only 140,000km on it, asking price 3990€. I love the color, I love the look. Only thing I miss is a sun roof.    e: Not married to that 99 either, just an example, it's actually museum registered so that means no car tax, but you may only drive it 30 days per year and no modifications ever. I don't like that much. I also found a nice 1986 900i for €2800 and only 160,000km on the odometer, 2 door coupe with spoiler. And it has a sun roof! Only thing I dislike is the color, metallic blue gray. My other two cars are metallic blue gray. I am so tired of metallic. His Divine Shadow fucked around with this message at 10:38 on Jun 6, 2023 |
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Jun 6, 2023 08:32
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Inside looks OK and it should be 4 geared manual. Still, the museum thing really bugs me about it. Like that makes it too nice a car for me, it's obviously not gonna be usable as I thought, a daily summer driver. https://www.nettiauto.com/en/saab/99/11912301 But just keep cool, something will show up. Now for fun, here's a 99 Turbo https://www.nettiauto.com/en/saab/99/13604230 Also we used to have 99s and 900s as police cars:   
His Divine Shadow fucked around with this message at 13:56 on Jun 6, 2023 |
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Jun 6, 2023 13:50
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I found a pretty neat site, someone restoring a 1978 Saab Turbo. Old fashioned blog for an old fashioned car. http://saabisti.fi/saab-99-turbo-1978/ TBH it's a project like this I would like to take on some day too. But not now... Some day. His Divine Shadow fucked around with this message at 06:49 on Jun 7, 2023 |
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Jun 7, 2023 06:47
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There's a reason I'm posting on foreign forums, can't loving register on the forums I want to. Wanted to register on the swedish forum saab turbo club sweden, it's the biggest swedish speaking forum for saabs, seems like ground zero for saab stuff. And since swedish is my main language and my finnish kinda sucks. But been trying now for a week, didn't get a confirmation mail, sent multiple notices to the mods about my problems. So I finally just said gently caress it, move further out. I'm so incredibly frustrated right now at that community and their mdoerators non responsiveness. That's the kind of info I am looking for, I don't know what it entails in terms of effort, most people seem to be doing entire engine swaps instead of just the fuel system so there must be a reason. I feel I could probably take on such a project eventually, I got the tools and I got experience welding rust and making my own spares. What I am doing right now on my daily driver. But ideally I'd get a car I can run first and evaluate and won't have to directly go into project mode. There are so called museum registered cars in Finland, that means an official has had to inspect them and make sure they are in a good enough standard inside and outside. They are also tax free. Downside is they are a museum car which means no modifications or engine swaps for a newer model or some such and you are allowed to drive it 30 days a year. Big cons in my view, but I have seen several at decent prices and it feels like a safer bet to buy one of those and then forego the museum registration stuff so I have free hands. I might have read parts of your thread, again a person doing an engine swap I thought, I wonder why I don't see nobody attempting a carb -> efi on the same engine... e: I can also see myself happy with a carbed engine if it gets good enough mileage. His Divine Shadow fucked around with this message at 05:14 on Jun 11, 2023 |
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Jun 11, 2023 04:36
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Yeah I'm not that interested in doing that anymore if it's gonna be expensive as heck. I might get a carbed engine as you say and just drive it. See what I think. Does seem easier to swap in an entirely new 16v engine otherwise. Or I dunno, speeduino conversion maybe. I know nothing about that either. Those earlier motors are the B engines right? I was looking at post '82 models to get at least an H motor.
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Jun 13, 2023 05:20
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Oh my, a 1990 TURBO for 4000€ (might get it down still)      Interior is hideous, it's a 4-door instead of 4-door, but it's a real turbo and a sedan, I like those more than the hatchbacks. Exterior paint is kinda ugly too but I've been getting better at repainting cars. Might be a good candidate. His Divine Shadow fucked around with this message at 08:49 on Jun 15, 2023 |
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Jun 15, 2023 08:40
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I'm personally conflicted. I really don't like the 4 door style or the interior. I realized after mulling it over for a few hours that I actually dislike most things on this car except it being a turbo. And on the other side there is this car, which is half the price, and driven 110,000 km less. It personally everything I want except it's not a turbo just a regular injected model.       I'm actually leaning towards this one personally, on the reasoning you can put a turbo engine in a regular Saab, but you can't turn a 4 door into a 2 door. But I am getting the feeling most people would choose the turbo.
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Jun 15, 2023 19:20
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trouser chili posted:One thing about that two-door is that it's not just non-turbo engine, it's also got the older SOHC head. I've always understood the later DOHC engines were the ones to have. Personally I think the red interior of the four-door turbo car is kinda bitchin and belies the boring grey exterior. I am aware of this, but it's still an H engine even if just an 8 valve. It's not the engine but from what I can tell it's still a fine engine. It's basically only the engine in the other car that I like, and only the engine in this car I think is the detriment. It's just in nicer shape and cleaner all around too. I looked closer at the other and found rust holes in the bottom of the doors too. I'm not going to like that red interior ever...
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Jun 16, 2023 04:18
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Some rust doesn't scare me, I've welded enough of it. Mostly the color and interior that puts me off, might be clapped out at 281,000 km too. I guess I could see myself with the car. If I could: -Repaint it to another color entirely -Get rid of the interior and replace it with something else -Fit a sun roof hatch (dunno how involved that would be) I offered €3800 for it just now anyway... If it was black it would be much nicer looking, here's a 4 door sedan for instance in black, instantly way nicer... 
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Jun 16, 2023 08:11
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I like the rears on the sedan models actually. It's not 99 pretty but close enough. I just think the two door I posted is so drat nice looking... And cheap!
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Jun 16, 2023 11:29
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Turbo-owner accepted my offer of 3800€ will send more photos tomorrow. I'm still unsure though, the other car is just so much nicer looking. God damnit am I the only one who thinks that?
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Jun 16, 2023 12:45
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Tomarse posted:Yeah, the 8v H engine is a solid engine. It looses the horrible jackshaft waterpump/dissy arrangement of the earlier B engine. Well it's a complete system in working condition so keeping it running might not be too bad? There's also the upgrade route, I've seen more than one cheap 900 turbo donor, basically rusted heaps or broken cars that could serve as a donor. But I am not sure about such a project either. Regardless of what car I get I would like to drive it for a few years before deciding on anything major. Probably gonna be more a matter of doing maintenance and service at first. Maybe complete engine disassembly and servicing. I have never done anything like that but how hard can it be?  Srsly tho doing stuff like that is kinda why I want an older car, I want to learn to do stuff like that.
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Jun 17, 2023 07:25
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So got more photos from seller, he also says the locks have "cosmetic damage" from a burglary attempt, but are fully functional. I'm actually arrangin a time to look at the car. Am I buying this???    It strikes me, it would be very fitting for me to get a Saab soon. I will be attending my uncles funeral and am a pallbearer there, my uncle was a life long saab enthusiast. I think he had a 900 once. And all the latter saab models. He might've enjoyed me taking a Saab there.
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Jun 17, 2023 11:40
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Train ticket booked for next monday! Until then I guess I will be just looking at other peoples photos. I need to find louvres for a sedan! I love louvres... I am really liking the two tone look, makes the saloon style sportier   I never cared for those tri tip rims however. The ones on the car I am going to look at are much nicer. Though the best rims where on the green metallic saab. 
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Jun 19, 2023 10:01
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Too spicy for me! I like the ones on this car quite a lot though. No rims are low priority anyway. I am more interested in finding stuff like -Factory original cassette player -Factory sound system -Saab louvres for sedan The last one seems a rarity.
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Jun 20, 2023 11:58
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Sweet book, now flip to the pages about the 99 and 900 
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Jun 21, 2023 08:24
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I hope they are more common over here yes. Those are nope prices. The seller told me the car had been broken into once, or attempted at least    Seller said the locks are fully functional but marred, he recommended swapping them entirely from another car. But is it not possible to swap just the damaged metal covers? I'm getting an impression that 900s are a car that often gets broken into. I wonder why. I am lucky enough that I live in a place where we generally never lock our cars, but I am still getting worried, have to visit the city from time to time. Should I install an alarm system... I do think I would like to install an after market remote.
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Jun 22, 2023 17:19
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Tomarse posted:Swapping the whole locks over is pretty easy. I have never managed to get the barrel and metal bit out of a door lock. I was thinking of the Magnavolt car alarm His Divine Shadow fucked around with this message at 07:42 on Jun 23, 2023 |
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Jun 23, 2023 07:40
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Midsummers eve today, which is 2nd largest holiday after christmas here. Extended family met at the summer cottage for a big dinner and during the evening as the talk somehow steered into cars for a bit I joked I'd rather buy an old Volvo 740 than most new cars today and my mom saids "well better a Volvo than a bloody Saab! I hope you don't buy one of those, ugliest cars ever. You come home in one of those and I'll lock the door." Of course then she said "you know I see what you write on facebook right?". I've been writing on a saab group there. lol, welp.
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Jun 23, 2023 21:22
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Oh it sucks my mom hates Saabs, though she was kinda trolling me, I think? But can't let your mom rule your life either when you are 40+ and have two kids of your own.
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Jun 24, 2023 11:40
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Tomorrow I have to get up at an obscene time to catch my 5:44 AM train. I wonder if the ride home will be like this? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UkT3M5gb2d0&t=1s
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Jun 25, 2023 13:38
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Jun 26, 2023 10:56
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Aand home! https://i.imgur.com/PEH1MZH.mp4 So the car is fun to drive, but does have it's issues but I think nothing too major? -Key retention unless reverse no longer works -Various rust issues (photos) -Probably needs a bunch of new various vacuum hoses -Seller says it ought to need a new rotor and pointed out two belts he thought I should replace -I tried looking at the drive shaft tunnels but they didn't look or feel rusty. -Some ground and connection issues with the rear lights -The indicator lever doesn't want to reset on it's own in one direction, seller says a piece is missing but replacements can be bought. -The drivers seat sags at the rear where you sit so you sink down, he passenger seat doesn't do that. I need to fix this because it wasn't good for my back after driving 400km. -I love cruise control! I got a mileage of around 8-8.5l/100km or 27-29 mpg. I think I could get it to do better with some engine service. -Seller has only ever used fully synthetic 5W-40 motor oil and I believe the papers showed it being used back for a very long time. I got another set of rims with studded winter tires, the tires look new and the rims are the saab aeros, looking to be in fine shape too. But I prefer the rims on the car now.  Also gave me some speakers and I dunno what they're called, splitters? For hooking up tweeters I believe.  Some of the rust, also old rust protection that's starting to let go. I want to wet sand blast the bottom of the car to get it clean and rust free, then perhaps epoxy coat the bottom, followed by Dinitrol ML and then a thicker product. I mean it will become a summer car only but I think I want to do that anyway.    Worst I found so far:  Getting up at 4 and taking the train for so long was pure hell. I haven't taken a train in 20 years and I was nervous the whole way about how to go about it and super afraid of getting at the wrong place, but VR and their app made everything very easy actually. Same with the net services and transferring ownership of the car. It's now mine in the papers. Seller was a nice guy I felt too. Had 5 saabs but was getting rid of them all, this was the last one.Family reasons, focus on the kids when young and such. Also had bees!
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Jun 26, 2023 16:02
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He even called me up now to say: -Check I got back alright -Don't change the oil, keep using a good quality full synthetic. -Buy a new rotor and put it in the glove box, this is a part that can fail suddenly and it's cheap and easy to replace so keep one in the car at all times. More photos    More rust, homemade trim  Some rustyness going on near the drive tunnels, it will need corrective action eventually. I just put Dinitrol ML on everything after I tried getting most of the crud off.   Homemade anti theft system, remove the red key and the car won't start. Says he puts it in the cigarette tray between the seats. 
His Divine Shadow fucked around with this message at 18:23 on Jun 26, 2023 |
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Jun 26, 2023 18:20
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I am lucky that "Svenska Saabklubben" has a spare parts store with just about everything in the way of Saabs, they even had the exact repair kit for the drivers seat, about 25 euros. This is the audio related equipment I got with:    I don't know what this is supposed to be, amplifier / bass perhaps, the seller was an audio guy and played the drums.  Not hooked up, a lot of the audio stuff wasn't really working properly.  Don't like this method of attaching the front bumper on the passenger side, seller did point it out himself though, not sure how to fix it, but surely a nicer solution can be found. 
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Jun 27, 2023 11:13
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Continuing my investigation into this car and basically knowing nothing about engines yet being willing to life the motor out and disassemble it anyway. 1st thing is that there are a bunch of cables here not connected to anything. There also seems to be a missing connection where the coolant hose mounts. PO said he wasn't sure what they did, but wondered if it had AC and got it deleted. I can see the brackets for mounting an AC compressor that's empty. But I assume they might all have had the same standardized parts so you could add that on later, so it doesn't tell me anything.  Also mystery connection here  Forgot to take a photo but on the other side there seems to be a large gold colored resistor mounted. Also two mystery connections inside the car on the passenger side. Think they have to do with the POs audio stuff, I'm contemplating yanking all that audio stuff out.
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Jun 27, 2023 15:57
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Oh yeah that's exactly what that is. Just wondering about the loose connections then.
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Jun 27, 2023 17:35
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I removed the back shelf today because it was sagging a lot in the center. I was thinking maybe I could repair it, stiffen it up maybe. But removing it was such a PITA that I broke it further. Couldn't even find any guides on how to do it in the manuals linked earlier, not for the sedan model anyway. Problem was the rear shelf is screwed in on each side and the screws are not easily accessible either, and it's a 7mm hex bolt screw which is even fussier to remove. It was entirely hidden inside the pillar trim and I did not see a good way to remove it either so i just pushed it in to access the screws. Last one wouldn't budge and I tore it out, it was kinda flimsy hardboard. I am leaning towards building an entirely new shelf from thin plywood and wood as support, perhaps I can reuse the red trim. I guess a new shelf could be bought but I thought it was a really dumb way to attach it so I don't plan on getting another one. There are other more easily accessible fastening points I think will suffice.  Bass thingy removed and there's another connector there not hooked up at all, but I know what it is now and I also know what one of the mystery connectors up front are for. It's all connected to this. Realized what it was when I noticed it said Nokia on it. It's the small antenna on the roof. This car had a mobile phone back when it was new, the old net then was called NMT or Nordic Mobile Telephone standard.  Says "NOKIA-MOBIRA OY VK 59", googling that shows me these old phones that look like suitcases. I guess there's no real use for that old antenna anymore.
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Jun 27, 2023 20:36
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Thanks! Well it just passed an inspection so I don't have to worry about that until May 2024 at least. I want to have a better look after summer at what's behind the wheels I do think there will be welding required there some time. I also noticed the part around the trunk release handle is all rusted as well, it's a hidden place so you cannot see it, but I want to get that fixed later as well. The shelf, well at this stage I would prefer to manufacture a new one, I have been thinking about it and 18mm MDF might be better choice for it as well. I could not see a good way to remove the trim on the rear "pillars" to get at the side attachment points, I don't think they just pop out and back in. e: Also I really enjoyed my kids reactions when they saw the car, they thought it was a really cool car. Daniel said something like "Dad I thought an old car would be crap, but this one's real cool!"  And even my wife commented last night that the car looks real nice actually. It's nice to hear that.
His Divine Shadow fucked around with this message at 06:29 on Jun 28, 2023 |
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Jun 28, 2023 06:15
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Here's some more shots. I wonder if I should make a thread for this car, or just keep posting here? Anyway I am no expert but it looks to me like there's a bracket there that should take something, also two mount holes nearby. Looks to me like something could've been mounted there before and based on the location it would be the AC compressor.  Also changed the oil today. Rear gearbox looking a mite wettish, hmm. PO said the exhaust was replaced last year.  Tried getting a shot of the drive shaft tunnel and such while I was under there, but eh best I got for now. 
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Jun 28, 2023 13:50
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The tires are the right size for my 2005 Mazda 6 so it will get them, so that saves me having to buy new winter tires for that car for a few years. All my cars ('07 Yaris and aforementioned Mazda) that I drive in winter get studded tires put on in november and taken off in april. But yeah this car will only be driven around late April to sometime in October. They salt the roads here so none of that for this car. This is My Summer Car.
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Jun 29, 2023 12:15
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I'm working on a new rear shelf at the moment. Considering if I should use all four speakers, or just the two larger ones. I am not much of an audio guy, but since I got them I don't know what else to do with them. And maybe this speaker layout isn't the best either, I need to do some research  Lower frame not attached yet, I wanted to position the plywood as well as I could before attaching it. It will be glued into place when done. Should be very overkill strong.   Still got parts to make and fit however. Now I wonder where I can buy fabric of the right color to match the original? When it's done I want it to look like it could have come with the car.
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Jun 30, 2023 15:08
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