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The thread on Russian literature has been going for a while so I thought I'd try to make a thread to talk about another section of literature that I think is pretty underappreciated in countries outside Japan. This is kind of odd considering they've produced two Nobel Literature prize winners (Yasunari Kawabata and Oe Kenzaburo) and a couple more authors who could have won it but didn't for various reasons (ritual suicide being one). Sure a lot of people on this forum have read some Haruki Murakami, and as cool as he is, and as much as I like him, I thought I'd try to spark some discussion about some other authors. I'm not incredibly well-read in Japanese literature, which is kind of sad since that's what I plan to go to grad school to study, but I've read some great novels and have an extensive reading list waiting for me. I also am working through translating some stuff. There's something that just seems different about Japanese literature. Now, obviously it's a very different culture, and part of it might simply be translation issues, but I think it's more than that. Japanese novels have an austerity to them; Japanese authors often are able to distill a scene down to its bare necessities and make it all the more meaningful and jarring because of that. I think maybe a lot of it has to do with having things like haiku in their literary past. Anyway, I thought I'd try to list a few big names and some of the stuff they've written. These will all be modern novelists/short story writers because that's what I'm most interested in. Oe Kenzaburo is one of Japan's Nobel Prize winners, as well as a winner of just about ever major Japanese literary award available. Quite prolific, he's also considered extremely non-Japanese in his opinions and politics. I've only read one of his works, sadly, A Personal Matter. It's the story of a man, called Bird, who feels trapped in his life and dreams of going on safari to Africa, but his wife gives birth to a deformed, possibly braindead child. Bird is an anti-hero, and more than a little pathetic. But he remains sympathetic, probably because, although we might revile his thoughts about the baby, most of us would admit to thinking the same things in that situation. Yasunari Kawabata The other Japanese Nobel Prize winner. This guy is amazing. I read Snow Country a while ago and, at the time, didn't care for it. I thought it was dull. Right now, though, I'm working through translating a version of the novel that he wrote as a very short story. He distills it down to its bare essence and creates essentially a series of short vignettes, each showing a scene that, together, tell the story of a wealthy guy from Tokyo coming to the mountains and getting involved in a country geisha. It's like reading a series of haikus. After this I plan to re-read the full novel. I think if you want to get a sense of Japanese prose, this is the guy to try. Natsume Soseki Just about everyone knows the name. He's incredibly popular in Japan still, and one of, if not the most famous Japanese author. Of his works, the most famous is probably Kokoro. It's a story that shows the disconnect and growing gap between generations as Japan modernizes. In it, the narrator forms a connection with a man simply labeled Sensei, meaning teacher, master, etc. The bulk of the novel is a letter Sensei writes to the narrator in which he bares his soul regarding his past and the things he's done and felt. Again, very sparse prose that may seem dry, but the emotion that it protrays becomes incredibly real. I've also read I am a Cat which is a very large novel that takes the perspective of a cat describing the goings on of his master's house. It's amusing at times, boring at others, but it's an interesting look at the culture of the time. Yukio Mishima This guy is also very well know, not only because of his works, but also because of his death. He and a group of radicals took over an office in a headquarters of the Self-Defense Force. In the end, he committed a very messy ritual seppuki - suicide by gutting yourself. If you read his novels you can tell the guy was a mess. I've read The Temple of the Golden Pavillion, a novelization of the true event wherein a crazy monk-in-training burns down a very famous temple. It was a while ago, though, so I don't remember that much other than liking it. I'm currently working through Spring Snow, the first in a tetralogy. It's very good, but the guy really had some women issues. I've been meaning to read another book of his that many people know, The Sailor Who Fell from Grace with the Sea. Jun'ichiro Tanizaki This guy was an amazing story teller. If you like magical realism or dark stories, try him. One of his most famous stories that I've read was called The Tattooer and tells the story of how a woman gets a large spider tattooed on her back. Afterwards she seems to take on demonic, seductive powers. His works are pretty dark and really delve into the darker sides of humanity, as do many of these authors actually. Ryunosuke Akutagawa I almost forgot about Akutagawa which is a crime since he's also an amazing short story writer. He gave us Rashomon and In a Grove which were later combined into a movie by Akira Kurosawa. In a Grove is especially good and tells a story wherein several different people give several different accounts of a murder. Haruki Murakami Not much to say about him since everyone knows him more or less. One of the most popular Japanese authors outside of Japan currently writing. I haven't actually read that much by him, but I did read and loved Hard-Boiled Wonderland and the End of the World. He's another great author for magical realism and creates a really surreal world even if his characters are more or less all the same. Ryu Murakami I wanted to throw him in because he's also currently writing but is less well-known. I read Coin Locker Babies a while ago and it was fantastic and fantastically messed up. If you like really crazy, post-modern works, give him a try. Those are the authors I can think of who I've read, but of course there are more out there. I hope there's some interest in this since I think it's a fascinating body of work that doesn't seem to get a whole lot of attention. So post here about your favorite works, or questions, or whatever.
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Dec 11, 2009 05:00
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CagedLiberty posted:Good OP. I've read I am a Cat, which I also found partially funny and partially dull, but it has stuck well in my memory and I'd say it's worth reading. Also, a bunch of H. Murakami stuff, which I think is entertaining and easy to read but all a little samey after a while, and The Sailor Who Fell From Grace With The Sea, which is rather short, but has a lot of gravitas. Actually, now that you mention it there seems to be a lot of crime or detective fiction in Japan. I did a quick search and there's even a Wikipedia article with a list of some other crime/detective/mystery authors. I've been meaning to check some of that genre out. Do you find in a significant way from western detective/mystery stories (if you've read western stuff)? Fry Pappy posted:Can we also talk about manga? I'm actually a bit torn on this since manga has a pretty different status in Japan than in the west. I've never actually read any, but there is stuff with more value than Naruto. I dunno if you meant the question as a joke, but if you have something legitimate, by all means.
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Dec 13, 2009 02:54
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hotgreenpeas posted:I recently read Points & Lines and a collection of short stories by Seicho Matsumoto, as well as The Tattoo Murder Case by Akimitsu Takagi. As far as the differences between western vs. Japanese writing in the detective novel genre, well, that's an interesting question. I'm not an expert on the genre at all, but I think a lot of detective/crime novels are supposed to be just as much a story about the setting as any of its characters. The Japan of Matsumoto is all trains, bland noodle and coffee shops, and cold, empty beaches. (I personally found Points & Lines to be too much about trains for my taste, as it's basically a big math/logic puzzle based on train schedules.) If you go back in history a bit, to before the Meiji Restoration, love-suicides were ridiculously prevalent in literature. Like practically every other story or drama ended with both lovers throwing themselves off a cliff or something. They loved their suicide back then. As for translations, there really doesn't seem to be an enormous variety to choose from compared to something like Russian literature. For example, Kokoro is one of the most recognized Japanese novels outside of Japan, and yet I think there's only one translation widely available which is the one by Edwin McClellan. Beyond that, there are relatively few publishing houses that put out Japanese translations, Tuttle being the biggest that I know of. I think that as you get more towards the well-known authors, though, the translations are probably of a higher quality in general. Jay Rubin, though, who works with Haruki Murakami, has done a lot of translations and I think he's generally pretty good. I would maybe recommend picking up a collection of Akutagawa's short stories. Aside from In a Grove they're not crime fiction really, but I think maybe they share the dark atmosphere that a hard-boiled novel has. Speaking of Jay Rubin, he and Murakami apparently translated a bunch of the stories and are available from Penguin.
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Dec 13, 2009 07:28
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WE RIDE posted:Not sure if he counts as Japanese since he's lived most of his life in England, but Kazuo Ishiguro is one of my favourite writers. His first two novels, A Pale View Of Hills and An Artist of the Floating World are both set in Japan and are both really good, the latter in particular. He also won the Booker Prize for his third book, The Remains of the Day, which is one of my all-time favourites (not set in Japan, though). I actually took a minute to decide whether or not to include this guy since, as you said, he's British-Japanese, but I think he's definitely worth mentioning. I read An Artist of the Floating World a while ago and really enjoyed it. I've been meaning to read The Remains of the Day. Thanks for bringing him up, though. Omgz posted:Come on, you have to have Murasaki Shikibu up there as well. Currently working through The Sea of Fertility or whatever it is in english as well. Black Rain by Ibuse comes to mind as something missing, I'm sure I could think of a lot more later when I have some time. Well, I did say that I was going to focus more on novels/modern literature, but you're right. Obviously a Japanese literature thread is lacking without mention of her and Genji. Actually, the three olde-time books that I want to read are The Tale of Genji and then, reaching way back in time, the Kojiki and the Nihon Shoki. Those two are like the creation myths and general mythology of Japan, and the stories in both seem pretty badass. Sheep-Goats posted:Mishima rules and to get the full effect you should read Forbidden Colors. Unlimited seething hatred piled on top of cruelty and deceit, all without any kind of a comfortable background of "oh no this guy really didn't think like that" because he did. He wasn't insane, he wasn't damaged, he just wasn't a very nice guy (unless you happened to be a supple young man). That's a pretty good way of putting it. I really think, though, that he had women issues just going so far off Spring Snow and what I've read about the plot of Forbidden Colors. I had to check, but apparently it wasn't even clear if he was gay or not? I'm sort of assuming he based Kiyoaki largely on himself. quote:Kawabata's Palm of the Hand Stories, a few of which were already obliquely mentioned in the OP, are a series of enigmatic and often nearly perfect short stories that at times seem to predict the minimal but explosively revealing short stories written in the 80s in America (Carver, before him O'Connor and sort of Hemingway) but with a bit more oddity and a little of the weirdness you'd expect to find in someone writing on the other side of the world. I just finished, as I said, reading Gleanings from Snow Country, the miniature version of the novel, and I think you're absolutely right about it being a nearly perfect short story. I now want to buy the collection of Palm of the Hand Stories. quote:
And thanks for this.  Do you study Japanese literature or just have a general interest in it? z0331 fucked around with this message at 00:42 on Dec 14, 2009 |
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Dec 14, 2009 00:39
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drat girl! posted:Kobo Abe I was actually supposed to read The Box Man a while ago and didn't, but after reading that website I think I might have to try again. He sounds really interesting. It also seems as though the directness of his prose might be less than a translation problem and more because of his analytic mindset. Thanks for posting him.
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Dec 16, 2009 00:27
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Philosopher King posted:While not entirely about Japanese literature, I was wondering if anyone could give me a recommendation on a book that covers general Japanese culture or history. I might be going there for awhile pretty soon and I wanted to know what I generally needed to know. Not sure how general you're looking for, but you mentioned history so I'd recommend Ian Buruma's Inventing Japan. It's a very light book covering the history of Japan from the opening of its ports up to the 1964 Olympics. If you want truly in-depth history this is not the book, but it has a great, fast-paced narrative and, personally gives a great overall sense of Japan's history. vertov posted:I really like Edogawa Ranpo's work. He had a great knack for mixing humor and horror. The Human Chair in particular is just the creepiest thing imaginable. I think part of it is the use of the "letter as confession" format (I don't know if there's a proper lit crit term for this), which creates an interesting mode of address that kind of disrupts the reader's relation to the text and narrator. He uses the same idea in other works (Twins, as I think it's usually translated) and other forms of unusual narration that often embed the narrator in the action (like in The Dancing Dwarf). I think most of his stuff is available in English translation, although some of it might be out of print. I wonder if he got the letter-as-narrative idea from Kokoro. Not that Soseki was the only author to do it, but more than a third of the book is the confessions of the Sensei character to the narrator through a huge letter he sent post-suicide. Also, the kanji for Ranpo's name (pen name) appear to mean something like 'rebellious step'. And his whole name is a play on Edgar Allen Poe which is pretty neat. z0331 fucked around with this message at 00:51 on Dec 22, 2009 |
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Dec 22, 2009 00:48
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Sheep-Goats posted:Mishima rules and to get the full effect you should read Forbidden Colors. Unlimited seething hatred piled on top of cruelty and deceit, all without any kind of a comfortable background of "oh no this guy really didn't think like that" because he did. He wasn't insane, he wasn't damaged, he just wasn't a very nice guy (unless you happened to be a supple young man). So I just finished Spring Snow and I can definitely see this pattern of not being very nice emerging. I've read books before where no one really wins or is happy before, but I'm not sure I've quite experienced this level of self-destruction that seems to occur to all his characters. I also finished The Wild Geeze by Mori Ogai. It's only like 120 pages, so I'd recommend it to anyone wanting a quick shot at early modern Japanese literature. Like Spring Snow, though, I just finished reading it feeling really  about the women in it.
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Jan 8, 2010 05:30
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meanolmrcloud posted:Whoa, reading the thread title, I thought for sure Murakami would get more prominence. I really can't say I know much about Japanese lit. but Murakami's works really gave a good voice to the 'magical realism' side I appeal to, a strange (yet still dry, literary) account of some bizarre poo poo. For my part it's because most people around here already know Murakami so I didn't think there was much reason to go on about him. I think it'd be great if people tried other Japanese writers although of course if you want to discuss Murakami that'd be awesome too. I also know there are people out there who think Murakami might not have the staying power that some of these other guys have, but that's of course yet to be seen. quote:For someone who doesn't really care for careful prose but rather vivid imagery and situation, what else could you suggest? You might try Tanizaki. I haven't read his novels yet, but his early short stories are pretty crazy. Yasunari Kawabata also can set up some vivid scenes, although his writing may be quite a but more subdued than what you're looking for. In his case, the prose is extremely careful.
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Jan 8, 2010 09:39
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hotgreenpeas posted:The Tattoo Murder Case was fascinating as a record of subcultures and life in post-war Japan. It is oddly structured; it breaks with one of the most basic conventions of detective novel. I can't really explain without spoiling it, but I got a big surprise in the middle of the novel. I think overall I noticed cultural differences more than stylistic differences. For example: love suicides. Apparently, this was an epidemic in mid 20th century Japan. I do agree with you about the "austere" thing; I found everything I read to be kind of cold and spare, but I think that's the case with a lot of Western hard-boiled genre fiction as well. I just finished reading this a little while ago. It was a pretty interesting read and I enjoyed it, but I kind of had some problems with the end. I kinda of didn't like how 'the genius' (forgot his name at the moment) came in and basically just solved everything in like a week. I also thought it was weird that Kenzo starts out as the main character but eventually gets shunted to being a bumbling idiot who eats a lot. On the other hand, I was about to type that I thought it made the mystery storyline secondary, but now that I think about it maybe that was kind of the point. What I did enjoy was the psychological aspect of the book, and how Takagi seemed to want to explore various aspects of how humans operate, our motivations, etc. If I think of that as the main purpose of the novel the other problems I had with it make more sense.
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Jan 26, 2010 01:58
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I am OK posted:What did you dislike about it? I constantly push this book onto my friends, but I've yet to find somebody who was blown away by it as I was. To me it reads like a love letter to domesticity and stability, something I grew up with but have yet to find in my adult life. There is a yearning for something in Kitchen, and this is what I identified it as. I used Kitchen as one of three books in my senior undergrad thesis that was about the expression of individuality in the Japanese modern novel. I read Kitchen as a story of the main character's search for identity. In the beginning of the book, her family is dead, so she loses one of the primary units that forms an identity in traditional Japanese culture. She's then adrift without feeling much connection to the people around her. She finds cooking and the kitchen as something to identify with, as well as something that gives her a connection to family - I think her grandmother liked to cook? In the end, she feels more comfortable with who she is and feels that, although she wants to be with the guy, she would also be able to stand by herself as her own identity. It's been a while since I've read it, but I think that was the main gist of what I wrote about it. mystes posted:I just looked on amazon and I can't tell: does the English book Kitchen include the sequel story "Mangetsu" (Full Moon)? This story actually made me sort of retroactively annoyed at "Kitchen" and I personally might have had a higher opinion of the first story if I didn't know the sequel existed. Which were you looking at? Amazon US or Japan? I just looked it up in the US site and it was a Look Inside version where the table of contents showed a second story called Moonlight Shadow. Dunno if that's the same story but with the title strangely translated.
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Jan 27, 2010 01:11
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I keep wanting to pick that up but I just don't want to spend the $40 or whatever for the full version. Someday...
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Jan 29, 2010 07:39
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tokyoakazukin posted:A Personal Matter is indeed the go-to work for Oe readers and the one most often (in my experience,) introduced in University Japanese Lit. Survey classes. It's a great book, I've not read it in a few years at this point but it stuck out as something I really enjoyed. Be prepared to be depressed/saddened by it too though. What I like about Oe, though, is that unlike other Japanese authors, he's a bit more of an optimist. A Personal Matter didn't leave me quite as depressed as I thought it would. Also, to the poster asking for less 'bombastic' authors, maybe try Ryu Murakami if you haven't? It's really loving weird at times, but Coin Locker Babies is a fascinating book. I really want to pick more of him up. I read him at the same time I read Haruki Murakami at for the first time, and in my mind I always thought of Ryu as Haruki on way more drugs.
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Feb 1, 2010 05:09
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Also western culture, especially American, is pretty popular in Japan. If you're in Tokyo for any period of time you likely can and will see or hear as many references to the US as Murakami puts in his writing. Maybe you could make the argument that he's pointing to the saturation of Japan with western things, but more likely he just likes the stuff and is used to it and for whatever reason feels that it works better in his stories than similar Japanese things.
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Feb 19, 2010 00:47
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Sheep-Goats posted:Love Mishima. Mishima rules. Books like Mishima's books are the reason I read. Each one exists in a space that was not there before the book was written, and yet those spaces are not safely separate from our world like Murakami's are, but set right up against it, very much eager to invade. I actually just started Kinkakuji in the Japanese. Have you read his stuff in the original? Do you think he's particularly difficult to read in Japanese or no? It's been slow going so far but my reading skills aren't particularly strong yet anyway.
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Mar 12, 2010 01:59
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JustNoSkill posted:Question for posters itt: I assume some people are reading the stuff directly in Japanese, are there any serious hang-ups or problems with English translations? I've heard that Japanese wordplay can be next-to-impossible to translate sometimes, but I'm about ready to start a new novel and it occurs to me that I haven't ever touched a Japanese text. Seems like as good a choice as any, assuming I can avoid reading pages of foot-notes. I've been under the impression that everyone in this thread has been talking about translations of Japanese works. If you pick up any modern Japanese novel or short story collection you won't really have to deal with footnotes. If you're worried about awkward phrasing in English of a passage that may be beautiful in Japanese, well that's just the nature of the beast that is translation and would be true of pretty much any language. If you're worried about references to Japanese cultural things that you don't know about, I wouldn't really worry about that either. I've seen translators handle it in a couple ways. One seems to be just to name the thing in Japanese or sort of equivalent English and leave it up to the reader to look stuff up if they want. That's pretty much the best way, personally. Sometimes, though, the translators will replace the name of whatever the thing is with an awkward and forced-feeling description. As an example I'm making up right now, 'they picked up their chopsticks and began eating their sushi, slices of raw fish on top of packed, lightly-vinegared rice'. The older the Japanese work, the more likely you're going to run into difficult or strange-sounding English. But for anything written in the last 100 years I don't think you'd have any problems just reading the translation like an English work.
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Mar 12, 2010 05:58
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Have either of you read Piercing and would you recommend it? It sounds really interesting but right now I can't really buy it for less than like $16 or so which seems too much for such a thin book.
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Apr 12, 2010 01:24
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Poutling posted:
Thanks for the suggestions. Seems there's a lot of Mishima love in this thread. I'm reeeeaaalllly slowly working through Temple of the Golden Pavillion in Japanese. It's tough but so far quite rewarding. I really like his descriptions. I'm not good enough at Japanese yet to tell you for sure if a lot is lost in translation, but it wouldn't surprise me at all. Although, I would imagine the art of meaningful kanji selection may be a dying one. Strangely enough, I actually like the thought of being buried in kanji dictionaries that list the varied and archaic subtleties of a character that show more of what the author was trying to express. Reaffirms my decision to apply for East Asian Studies grad school.
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Apr 22, 2010 01:49
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I've read relatively little of him also. I really liked Hard Boiled... though honestly I'd probably be hard-pressed to accurately explain why. I liked the atmosphere he sets up and the blurring the line between the mental and physical world was interesting. Other than that I've read some of his short stories. I want to say the shorter they are the better because he seems to have a tendency to just trail off.
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Apr 23, 2010 05:27
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drat girl! posted:Kobo Abe doesn't get mentioned enough in discussions on Japanese literature, although it seemed like he was pretty influential in the 1960's and 70's. He reads sort of like a more clinical Franz Kafka. I don't know if it is an issue with the translation, but his writing doesn't really come across as anything more than direct and serviceable, but the ideas behind his novels are innovative and radically different from the Japanese authors of his generation. Bumping this thread (it was the last thread on the last page ) because, as I posted in the Just Finished thread, I'm getting on a bit of an Abe kick. I really enjoyed Woman in the Dunes and even found myself satisfied with how it ended. I felt like my opinion of life and the village and what they had done changed and developed along with the main character's, so that by the end I agreed with his decision and thought it was probably the best he could have made.I just started The Box Man and I totally agree that it is a challenging novel, and also funny. The narrative (so far, don't know if it changes) is from pages of notes written by a box man. That is, someone who has rejected living like everyone else and instead lives inside of a specially-prepared cardboard box. He spends time musing on certain things like the psychological progression of a dream in which you think you're a fish. I feel that there are connections to be made from these passages to how a box man sees the world but I just am having a hard time working them out. I'm becoming interested in Japanese versions of surrealism and, if I dare to use the term, magical realism, and Kobo Abe is just about the perfect choice for that.
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Aug 23, 2010 06:55
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From what I've read so far, you won't find much in the way of obvious western references in Abe's works. You can, of course, find influences from the war and western culture in general, but it's not going to be like Murakami. Just finished The Box Man and it was not at all what I was expecting. The question of narrator and identity was impossible to work out from the first read through. At certain points I was convinced certain characters were the same person, but then the next section would throw it back into question. I'm especially not sure what to make of the ending. I can't even tell if I should be optimistic, or horribly depressed. Has anyone else read this?
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Aug 28, 2010 16:26
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The issue I had with it, though, was the question of identity. I definitely have to read it again as the line between the characters got seriously blurry. Also, how did you interpret the ending in a more literal sense? What was the deal with that alleyway the woman apparently disappeared down? At that point I wasn't sure if I should take it metaphorically, literally, or simply a figment of his imagination. I don't have the book in front of me otherwise I'd reread the last few pages right now since I'm thinking of it.
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Sep 8, 2010 01:02
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Wrojin posted:I was actually put off by Mishima's Runaway Horses because I found the underlying philosophy repulsive, which spoiled the tetralogy for me. I might try it again another time. Resurrecting my own thread because I'm just about finished with this book and, as I was reading it, it suddenly struck me that it reads almost like a Tea Party fanfic in that you have a group of people who consider themselves the embodiment of truly pure patriotism and who want to restore the country to the control of the divine emperor. Granted there are some ideological differences, but while reading it I couldn't stop thinking about the more hardcore Tea Partiers who daydream about leading a rebellion to overthrow the corrupt government, expelling socialism and all other forms of evil, and restoring America to the of the divinely-inspired Constitution. That said, I'm not really sure what to make of Isao. To be honest, he just seems like a smart, but extremely naive youth who makes the common youthful mistake of truly believing he is better than everyone else. I have had absolutely no sympathy for him at all over the course of the book, and really just find him pitiable. I haven't finished it yet, but, Wrojin, I was wondering if the philosophy that turned you off was this brutal nationalism, and if you thought the book was actually supporting it or not.
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Nov 4, 2010 02:24
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Pfirti86 posted:Edit: Oh yeah, I also recently picked up Royall Tyler's Penguin Classic Japanese Nō Dramas. It's 24 famous Nō plays along with footnotes and stage directions. I don't know one thing about Nō drama, but it sounded cool so I guess I'm about to learn. In my opinion, Noh plays are like opera in many ways. (Warning: I know very little about opera) For one, no one can actually understand what's being said. The chanting vocalizations are pretty amazing to listen to, but even Japanese people don't know what the gently caress. Second, the vast majority of them can be divided into a few standard story-types which the book you bought will probably explain. That said, you can find references to them in a lot of classical and more modern Japanese literature, just like western lit often references famous operas or plays. I'd be curious, though, how it is to read them rather than see them.
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Nov 5, 2010 00:25
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Finally finished Mishima's Runaway Horses and to the very end I still didn't feel any sympathy for the main character and I'm still not even sure if I was supposed to. I get the idea that he wanted to embody a purity of thought that made no compromises to silly things like the real world and how poo poo actually works, but it just made him seem to me more like a petulant child than an uncorruptable martyr. Again, though, I'm not sure if that's because of cultural differences. I'll probably getting around to reading the rest of the tetralogy, but I kind of like Honda and don't really want to watch him destroy himself. z0331 fucked around with this message at 06:45 on Nov 26, 2010 |
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Nov 18, 2010 00:38
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Mind Ape posted:Noh is an astoundingly beautiful artform, but when read it will tend closer to poetry than a novel or a modern play. Yeats wrote At the Hawk's Well in an Irish-inspired imitation of the Noh, and poets like Pound followed suit, so in a way Noh in its written form has a fairly weighty influence on the development of English language modernism (with much other literature from Asia). The most gorgeous translations come from Ezra Pound via Fenollosa in Noh' or Accomplishment: a study of the classical stage of Japan . You can find a lot of them online too. This is really interesting. I never knew there was such a connection between western playwrites and Noh. Not that I know much about Noh anyway... Do you have any favorite Noh plays? Have you ever seen one live? I was able to see one and I just remember how striking it was in its minimalism. Also, thanks for mentioning Fenollosa. I didn't know about him but, after looking him up, I'd say he's a pretty important guy to know about when planning on studying Japanese literature. Edit: Apparently his work, Epochs of Chinese and Japanese Art has a Kindle version which is really surprising and awesome. z0331 fucked around with this message at 06:44 on Nov 26, 2010 |
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Nov 26, 2010 06:29
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Just quickly read an online print of Aya No Tsuzumi, and you're definitely right that it's far more like poetry than drama when written down. I thought the role of the chorus was interesting. I'm used to the western vision of the chorus that offers moral interpretations and acts as an observer. This chorus seemed to take on the perspective of different characters at different times, forming an image almost of an internal dialogue. Also, laughing at the name Count Kuki.
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Nov 29, 2010 03:02
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Which of Mishima's works do you prefer? It was a while ago, but I remember enjoying The Temple of the Golden Pavillion but I just haven't particularly enjoyed what I've read of the Sea of Fertility tetralogy. Spring Snow was ok, but Runaway Horses didn't click. I'm not sure whether or not it was because I felt absolutely no sympathy or connection with Isao. Still, he does strike me as one of the most interesting modern Japanese authors. From the sounds of it I should try to get my hands on some of his non-fiction as well. Also, of the two Murakamis, I vastly prefer Ryu even though I haven't read much. Coin-Locker Babies is one of my favorite novels. Ryu seems to be really good at perceiving and representing the pulsating animalism hidden underneath human civilization.
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Feb 9, 2011 00:46
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I've only read one book by each, but in my limited experience I would compare/contrast Kenzaburo and Ryu Murakami by saying that both, as I said before, see the barbarism/animalism underneath the veneer of culture, but Kenzaburo seems to have a much more optimistic outlook on it whereas Murakami's characters find closure through society's destruction. I've been meaning to read The Sailor Who Fell from Grace with the Sea but haven't gotten around to it. I'll probably try Sun and Steel though the publisher has managed to turn me off through the cover alone. 
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Feb 9, 2011 05:50
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Posting cause I've recently begun re-reading Sosek's Kokoro. I've read it twice before but this time I'm trying it in Japanese. It's actually not as hard as I expected, though slow going. Anyone who hasn't read this book - in any language - really should give it a try. I honestly think it's close to a perfect novel. Soseki is capable of using very direct, simple language to say so much. The other book I've been going through is called Kokuhaku. The title translates as Confession, though there's no English translation of the book yet. The basic story is about a junior high school teacher who's young daughter is killed accidentally by a pair of students in her class. I think it's one of many recent Japanese books that points to problems in Japanese society that are becoming reflected in kids. So far it's been pretty interesting.
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Mar 3, 2011 01:27
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Also, I found this list of recommended works in modern Japanese literature to be interesting. As the guy admits, in all 'canon' lists there's plenty of stuff missing, but it gave me plenty of new names to look up of authors I had never heard of. Even better, if you can read Japanese, around half the entries are up on Aozora Bunko (Japan's version of Gutenburg). Yes, I actually looked up each one to see if it was available for download.
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Mar 3, 2011 04:07
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Glad you're finding the list useful. I think it really demonstrates how little Japanese literature, especially early modern stuff, has reached Western readers when translations are so hard to find. Once you get past the dozen or so big-name modern authors, availability becomes very limited.
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Mar 3, 2011 04:29
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jet_dee posted:I have kokoro, but the only books I've tried reading (with an electronic dictionary to hand) are Murakami Haruki (Norwegian Wood and 1Q84 vol. 1) and I can't get anywhere fast. Obviously it's gonna depend a lot on your level of Japanese, but I would actually say that Soseki is slightly easier to read than Murakami, though some might disagree. I say that mostly because Murakami, while often using structure reminiscent of English, also uses a lot of figurative or otherwise odd language and imagery which can make it sort of tough to figure out what he's trying to say. Soseki, on the other hand, doesn't use a whole lot of imagery and, keeps things pretty straightforward. I would almost call him the Hemmingway of Japan in a certain sense. The hard part is that he also uses older kanji, words, or grammar that aren't as common nowadays which can throw you off.
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Mar 4, 2011 00:32
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In terms of ghost stories, or Kaidan, I haven't read either of these, but from my quick searching I found two collections you could try: First there's the book Kwaidan that the movie was based on. It contains more stories than the movie does so it might be of interest. Second, there's the Ugetsu Monogatari, translated as Tales of Moonlight and Rain. These are apparently adapted from Chinese stories so they might be familiar to you already. As for mythology, if you feel up to it, the two huge ones are the Kokiji and the Nihon Shoki. These are basically the creation myths of Japan and how the culture began. Of the two, the Kokiji is more mythology while the Nihon Shoki is a bit more historically grounded. Sadly I haven't read these either. The only major translation of the Kojiki is from a long time ago so reads really stuffily. Plus practically every page is half footnotes which has scared me off for now. I figure since you're used to reading gigantic Chinese stories you might fare better. And finally, in terms of folklore, I'm not actually sure if there's a good anthology/full collection of various folk tales and stories. You might try looking at this page of major folk tales and seeing where they lead. You also might try stuff by Ryunosuke Akutagawa who wrote a lot of supernatural stories. Edit: You could try this collection of fairy talesalthough apparently she was pretty liberal in her translations. At least it's free. z0331 fucked around with this message at 05:30 on Mar 4, 2011 |
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Mar 4, 2011 05:25
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Sperg Victorious posted:Yasutaka Tsutsui I actually saw him on a TV show here in Japan a little while ago and they did a short segment on his work. Some of it, like Paprika, sounded really interesting. If you want Inception-like stories, that is probably even better since it's actually about entering dreams. Some of his stuff sounded kind of gimmicky, though. Like one book he wrote wherein he wouldn't use a certain letter/Japanese syllable each chapter. So like the first chapter he wrote without using the sound 'ge', and then the next chapter it would be without 'ge' and 'ha', etc. And then another book he basically tried to write in real time and then publish it unedited so there are actually a bunch of blank pages where he either zoned out or was doing something else. He's written a ton of stuff and continues to do so. On the show he claimed that he always tries to do something he's never done before. Still, Japanese sci-fi writers seem to be some of the most interesting. I've been on a Ryu Murakami kick recently. I bought the English version of Audition on my Kindle and so far it's a little 'meh'. I'm reading Piercing in Japanese also and it's by far more interesting. One of his major themes really seems to be how poor parenting can completely gently caress a person up.
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May 19, 2011 07:03
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It kinda depends on what you like him for. If you like stories about alienation and that have a sense of disconnection from the world than you might try Ryu Murakami although he's quite a bit darker. If you like the surrealism or sometimes magical realism, you might try Kobo Abe, although he can be tougher to get into.
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Aug 24, 2011 17:03
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I'm finally back in school and have been taking an East Asian Novel course with a professor who is Japanese so the course material is almost all Japanese novels. So far we've read 3 books and they're all ones I've read before - Soseki's Kokoro, Mishima's Temple of the Golden Pavilion, and Abe's Woman in the Dunes - but it's been a lot of fun going through them again in an academic environment since you can get so much more out of them. I've also finished up Kokoro again in the original Japanese and am working through Woman in the Dunes in Japanese also though it's been tough going. I'm planning on focusing a lot of my efforts on Abe Kobo. I just love his work so much. Woman in the Dunes is a fantastic existential novel but one that actually can be read as relatively optimistic. I'm also working through The Ark Sakura on the side which is pretty interesting. I really need to re-read The Box Man since I think there's a lot of interesting things that can be read into it regarding the use of observation/looking (ala Foucault's Panopticon, etc.) Edit: Forgot to mention that the next book we've just started is Murakami's A Wild Sheep Chase which is the first book on the list I haven't read. It's been a long time since I've read any Haruki Murakami so I'm looking forward to getting into it. I got kind of turned off of him after reading a bunch of his short stories. With a few exceptions they just generally left me with a feeling of 'ok, so what?' From what I've read his novels just tend to have more to them.
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Oct 1, 2011 22:39
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If they passed up Abe Kobo for so many years until it was too late there's no reason they should choose Murakami.  Not that I'm biased or anything...
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Oct 4, 2011 03:17
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Automatic Jack posted:
Audiobooks are not very popular over there and, as far as I know, there are no audiobook versions of Murakami's stuff.
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Oct 8, 2011 16:03
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Magic Man posted:Izumi Kyoka Sounds kind of like Akutagawa, at least style-wise. Have you read both? creamyhorror posted:Oh hey this thread. I started reading Akira Higashiyama's "Johnny the Rabbit", a sort of crime noir novel involving a rabbit protagonist and other animals. I didn't get very far, because it was only somewhat interesting. I'm reading it in Chinese (title is 兔子强尼 - picked it up at a book sale randomly) but I imagine the content is about the same. The book doesn't seem to be known by the anglo-Internet, and the author doesn't even have a Wikipedia page. Hmm. Sooo you read a mediocre novel you picked up randomly and are surprised when the author isn't well-known?
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Oct 10, 2011 03:20
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| # ¿ May 19, 2024 09:53 |
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I'm taking an East Asian Novel course this semester and we read A Wild Sheep Chase. It basically re-affirmed for me that I do, in fact, like Haruki Murakami, I just really need to stay on his novels since his short stories, with a few exceptions, turn me off. It was also nice to go through his novel with a professor who likes him and does a lot of work on him. I gained an appreciation for his work as having aspects beyond just pop-fiction. Also we just finished Tale of Genji (abridged) and gently caress that guy. I understand the importance of the work, I understand at least some of the complexities, I understand the level of psychological depth that's going, and I can appreciate the aesthetic ideals that were being achieved and expressed. But I couldn't take much more of reading about prissy aristocrats. I like the Akashi chapter the best since it showed glimpses of common people. I wanted to read more about them, not another one of Genji's affairs. z0331 fucked around with this message at 05:46 on Oct 29, 2011 |
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Oct 29, 2011 05:44
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