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ACES CURE PLANES
Oct 21, 2010



In Z1, not having the slash combo is honestly great at the start, the first slash is far and away the most powerful tool you have, and just melts everything thanks to the particular way the hit invuln works.

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Dabir
Nov 10, 2012

Double slash is better.

Star Man
Jun 1, 2008

There's a star maaaaaan
Over the rainbow
You can unlock Jackson if you beat the game on hard mode with rank A or S, but that's the only thing besides the cyber elf in Ciel's room that requires a high rank. You can also collect Jackson by obtaining every cyber elf and leveling them up in new game plus.

In summary, cyber elves go great with ketchup.

Dabir
Nov 10, 2012

You also have to USE all the elves, don't you?

Simply Simon
Nov 6, 2010

📡scanning🛰️ for good game 🎮design🦔🦔🦔

Dabir posted:

You also have to USE all the elves, don't you?
Yup

I did it once and it's unbelievably tedious to use Elves 3 at a time and it needs to be in a mission and urghhhh

Larryb
Oct 5, 2010

Simply Simon posted:

Yup

I did it once and it's unbelievably tedious to use Elves 3 at a time and it needs to be in a mission and urghhhh

Doesn’t using elves during a mission take points off your rank though?

Simply Simon
Nov 6, 2010

📡scanning🛰️ for good game 🎮design🦔🦔🦔

Larryb posted:

Doesn’t using elves during a mission take points off your rank though?
Yeah that's why you either pay for and use them all OR have high rank on Hard to get Jackson

Can Of Worms
Sep 4, 2011

That's not how the Triangle Attack works...
I don't remember having to actually maintain an A-rank to get Jackson, because using all the permanent upgrade elves reduces your rank to F or something equally low for the rest of the game. IIRC there was also a new game plus mode that kept all elves used so you didn't have to do it in a single playthrough, which is how I did it originally.

Larryb
Oct 5, 2010

It sucks that even Sub Tanks were tied behind elf usage as well (though the sequels fixed that somewhat)

Larryb fucked around with this message at 20:36 on Jan 5, 2024

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007

The elf system is a pretty great example of how presentation can absolutely destroy what is otherwise a reasonable system.

Like it's obvious how they got there. "We are making a game we expect people to replay and speedrun. How about we encourage players to use as few handicaps as possible while providing an excessive number of those handicaps to people who need it, while subtly reinforcing that you can do better without them, ala how Devil May Cry rewards you with higher rankings for not using items."

Except they did everything they could to make using elves feel like a failure up to and including "these adorable little creatures, each with their own name, loving dies if you ask for their help." So nobody wanted to use them, even casual players, because contributing to the genocide of small innocent helpful creatures feels bad.

Petiso
Apr 30, 2012



Kurui Reiten
Apr 24, 2010

It's all negative reinforcement, in a series that up until then had done almost exclusively positive reinforcement. "Doing this to get through the game makes you a bad person and player", as opposed to "Doing this is fine and you won't be penalized, but not doing this to get through the game makes you an even better player!"

Larryb
Oct 5, 2010

ImpAtom posted:

The elf system is a pretty great example of how presentation can absolutely destroy what is otherwise a reasonable system.

Like it's obvious how they got there. "We are making a game we expect people to replay and speedrun. How about we encourage players to use as few handicaps as possible while providing an excessive number of those handicaps to people who need it, while subtly reinforcing that you can do better without them, ala how Devil May Cry rewards you with higher rankings for not using items."

Except they did everything they could to make using elves feel like a failure up to and including "these adorable little creatures, each with their own name, loving dies if you ask for their help." So nobody wanted to use them, even casual players, because contributing to the genocide of small innocent helpful creatures feels bad.

Hell, right at the very beginning of the game we see one (who is also sentient mind you) sacrifice herself to revive Zero, and then in 3 you have to physically kill two babies in combat

Larryb fucked around with this message at 20:42 on Jan 5, 2024

Darth TNT
Sep 20, 2013

Larryb posted:

Hell, right at the very beginning of the game we see one (who is also sentient mind you) sacrifice herself to revive Zero, and then in 3 you have to physically kill two babies in combat

Somehow I’m surprised Passy doesn’t show up more as a secret of some sort. Or in x dive in a swimsuit.

Caphi
Jan 6, 2012

INCREDIBLE
Satellite Elves were cool. Hell yeah I'm gonna go into battle with my little frog buddy.

Discendo Vox
Mar 21, 2013

We don't need to have that dialogue because it's obvious, trivial, and has already been had a thousand times.
Mega Man General: Health for you, death for me.

Tunicate
May 15, 2012

ImpAtom posted:

The elf system is a pretty great example of how presentation can absolutely destroy what is otherwise a reasonable system.

Like it's obvious how they got there. "We are making a game we expect people to replay and speedrun. How about we encourage players to use as few handicaps as possible while providing an excessive number of those handicaps to people who need it, while subtly reinforcing that you can do better without them, ala how Devil May Cry rewards you with higher rankings for not using items."

Except they did everything they could to make using elves feel like a failure up to and including "these adorable little creatures, each with their own name, loving dies if you ask for their help." So nobody wanted to use them, even casual players, because contributing to the genocide of small innocent helpful creatures feels bad.

also the effects weren't really balanced for the drawback

"This turns minor enemies onscreen into weaker ones"

"Oh cool, how often can I use it?"

"Once."

"Per level? Per life?"

"Once."



More reasonable design would make it apply to one entire level, give a big drop to your rank for using it, and let you replay the level without the elf in the same playthrough to get the higher rank reward.

Tunicate fucked around with this message at 23:20 on Jan 5, 2024

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007

Honestly something that is like the elf system but works is the Plume system in Valkyrie Profile: Covenant of the Plume. It's a strategy RPG with somewhat unfair stages that CAN be beaten but often require a genuine struggle to do so. Or you can use a magic plume which super-boosts one of your characters at the small cost of 'they loving die' and once they do your protagonist gets a new special unique power out of it. And the plot reflects on if you went hog wild with the plume, only used it sometimes, or never used it, and there's actually three distinct routes in the game with unique characters for each possible path, and it's designed for a NG+ playthrough where you can either struggle to get the best ending the first time or plume loving everything and go into your second playthrough with advantages.

Electric Phantasm
Apr 7, 2011

YOSPOS


lol

Is it a full heal at least?

Simply Simon
Nov 6, 2010

📡scanning🛰️ for good game 🎮design🦔🦔🦔

Electric Phantasm posted:

lol

Is it a full heal at least?
What the gently caress kind of game do you think we're playing here? You gotta upgrade for a full heal.

Darth TNT
Sep 20, 2013

ImpAtom posted:

Honestly something that is like the elf system but works is the Plume system in Valkyrie Profile: Covenant of the Plume. It's a strategy RPG with somewhat unfair stages that CAN be beaten but often require a genuine struggle to do so. Or you can use a magic plume which super-boosts one of your characters at the small cost of 'they loving die' and once they do your protagonist gets a new special unique power out of it. And the plot reflects on if you went hog wild with the plume, only used it sometimes, or never used it, and there's actually three distinct routes in the game with unique characters for each possible path, and it's designed for a NG+ playthrough where you can either struggle to get the best ending the first time or plume loving everything and go into your second playthrough with advantages.

Covenant of the plume was pretty cool.

Darth TNT
Sep 20, 2013
Volt Kraken’s level can go die in a fire.

X2 ride chaser was fun because you just used it in a normal level. These auto scrollers kinda suck, but then Squid Adler comes along and forces you to hunt energy spheres while being stupid fast. It’s the worst.

Simply Simon
Nov 6, 2010

📡scanning🛰️ for good game 🎮design🦔🦔🦔

Darth TNT posted:

Volt Kraken’s level can go die in a fire.

X2 ride chaser was fun because you just used it in a normal level. These auto scrollers kinda suck, but then Squid Adler comes along and forces you to hunt energy spheres while being stupid fast. It’s the worst.
It's so loving bad

The funny thing is, the second part is ALSO awful but not nearly as idiotic as the first

Boss is probably the best fight in X5 at least

Larryb
Oct 5, 2010

The only way I’ve ever beaten that level is by going to the options menu and setting the game speed to Slow

Meowywitch
Jan 14, 2010

Fight for all that is beautiful in the world

I have to rebind the controls lol

Flytrap
Apr 30, 2013
https://twitter.com/Protodude/status/1746959403385798951

-The enemy's weakness system has been added.
-You can turn the conversation over quickly with the start button.
-The tempo of some event scenes has accelerated.
-Some unnecessary conversations have been deleted.
-The conditions for X to join us have been changed to the rescue of 32 hostages.
-Sound effect and BGM volume have been adjusted.
-Rank promotion conditions have been eased further.
-While Axl is transforming, you can release the transformation with the player change button.
-Weapon damage and consumption have been adjusted.
-Some special weapons have been accelerated.
-HP and damage of enemies and bosses have been adjusted.
-Initial special weapons gauge changed from 25 to 32.
-It's been changed so that if you fall, it happens faster.
-Reploid was changed to be killed if he was attacked three times by the enemy.
-Zero be judged invincible while you're demonstrating Bakuenjin, Raijinshou, Gokumonken.
-The problem with dash wall jump has been improved.
-It's been changed to allow Zero to change direction during the jump attack.
-Zero Saver Attack Delay has been reduced.
-The sound of getting a heart tank has changed.
-Camera angles on some stages have changed.
-The scrolling speed of the Mole Bore stage has increased slightly.
-The placement of some enemies within the stage has changed.
-Boss's weakness has changed.
(Soldier Stonekong)-(Tornado Tonion)-(Flame Hyenard)-(Splash Warfly)-(Snipe Anteator)-(Wind Crowrang)-(Vanishing Gungaroo)-(Ride Boarski)
-Tornado Tonion's waiting time increased.
-Splash Warfly's missile tracking time has decreased.
-Snipe Anteator's sniper device has been reduced from six to two.
-There's an increase in the delay before Red's attack.
-Tornado Tonion Stage The mid-boss's rotation time has been reduced.
-When you get a life-up or energy-up, all characters' max gauges increase. (1.1.5)
-The system that gets Life up and Energy up when you knock down a 8 boss has been deleted. (1.1.5)
-Soldier Stonekong's initial pattern changed to sword-wielding behavior. (1.1.5)
-Fixed the issue that does not reflect on the resume screen when the heart tank is obtained. (1.1.7)
-If you pass through a particular area within the step, it will start in that area when you retry. (1.2.1)
-Setting the video plugin to softwere fixed the issue of darkening the boss icon color. (1.2.2)
-In the Weapon get screen, a bug has been fixed where Zero's hair floats in the air. (1.2.3)


Gotta be honest, it's great that people are trying to polish this turd, but I don't really thing X7 can be improved outside of "Throw out almost everything and just make an entirely different game" Maybe the X8 Demake treatment.

Flytrap fucked around with this message at 07:17 on Jan 16, 2024

Petiso
Apr 30, 2012



No mention of fixing "BURN BURN TO THE GROUND BURN--"?

Takoluka
Jun 26, 2009

Don't look at me!



They said "improvement."

Meowywitch
Jan 14, 2010

Fight for all that is beautiful in the world

Just give me the Japanese version that didn't gently caress with stats (in English)

Larryb
Oct 5, 2010

Meowywitch posted:

Just give me the Japanese version that didn't gently caress with stats (in English)

That’d be the European version then and you can get that in the second Legacy Collection

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007

https://store.steampowered.com/app/2543040/Halcyon_Days/

Well, this certainly looks legally distinct.

chumbler
Mar 28, 2010

Really don't like the lighting or shaders or whatever that they're using, but I applaud the effort at least.

Dabir
Nov 10, 2012

Looks pretty bad imo

Augus
Mar 9, 2015


devs need to make up their minds if they want to be low-poly or not.

Rockman Reserve
Oct 2, 2007

"Carbons? Purge? What are you talking about?!"

the jet skate physics look possibly p fun?

Marluxia
May 8, 2008


I tried a 100 point S rank hard run of Z1 once. I made it all the way to the final boss, and jesus, it was hard to hit him with your basic kit, and not get hit.

I think I eventually managed it but it was painful.

gandlethorpe
Aug 16, 2008

:gowron::m10:
How the gently caress has this whole project slipped past my radar?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5HHf4LW3fZc

https://twitter.com/Protodude/status/1742039487784382619

KennyMan666
May 27, 2010

The Saga

Yeah, hadn't heard about that before either. Will definitely try it when it's done, even if regular X8 already is one of my top two MMX games.

And speaking of fangames, have we heard anything more at all about MMX Corrupted after that one-hour video a bit over a year ago? I was certain that after showing that much of it, a release wasn't too far away, but there seems to have been complete radio silence since.

ElegantFugue
Jun 5, 2012

KennyMan666 posted:

Yeah, hadn't heard about that before either. Will definitely try it when it's done, even if regular X8 already is one of my top two MMX games.

And speaking of fangames, have we heard anything more at all about MMX Corrupted after that one-hour video a bit over a year ago? I was certain that after showing that much of it, a release wasn't too far away, but there seems to have been complete radio silence since.

They have a discord and twitch channel that updates more regularly- the twitch channel normally has a stream every weekend of the devs working on stuff, though I think they've missed a few due to illness?

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Kurui Reiten
Apr 24, 2010


I can't properly describe what's wrong with that sprite work, but there is very much something wrong with that sprite work.

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