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Gaffle
Aug 23, 2013

sWAg

AHungryRobot posted:

That's funny, since that design reminds me heavily of Elecman.exe.

She reminds me of the corrupted Mr. Progs from the Elecman level--especially because her feet are together in a single point and she looks like she would be floating above the ground.

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Gaffle
Aug 23, 2013

sWAg

It's a vote for B from me. I wouldn't mind seeing A or E in the game though. A is pretty nice, though I don't really like those pigtail cannon things.

D, G, H, and I are all really dull to me, and C just creeps me right out. Those eyes... ugh.

Gaffle
Aug 23, 2013

sWAg

What bugged me the most about C was all the sketches feature that same blank facial expression. Rocket boots and pincer hands are awesome and call for more intense expressions. Maybe it will look better in the finalized design, if it wins. The face aside, C is actually really cool and exciting.

I'm sure they'll manage to make Call interesting no matter which design wins. Curious to see which three make it to the final vote.

Gaffle
Aug 23, 2013

sWAg

Simply Simon posted:

Me too. In fact, I hate nearly all minibosses in MM9 and 10, and you don't need to tell me to use weapons, I do all the time. They still take just too long to be frustrating and tedious, the entire lot, and I feel they are just too difficult to be fun - deal lots of damage, aren't particularily easy to dodge, the works.

Cat from Top Man would be a great example for how to make a miniboss in my opinion, actually (was surprised someone earlier mentioned it as the worst). It takes ten shots to down, that's nothing. You can easily spam three per jump, and it'll take a bit to release the first ball of yarn, so if you're quick, you'll only have to dodge once. You do have to dodge at least once, though, which is okay - it doesn't need to be a flowbreaking 2-minute dance affair.

Mega Man 9 and 10 had hard minibosses, which I like because they are challenging enough to actually earn that title unlike the minibosses in 4, 5 and 6 which are usually non-threatening and just take forever to kill. I think the only thing wrong with 9 and 10 minibosses is that they are always immediately before the checkpoints so when you die you have to do the entire first half of the stage again.

Most frustrating miniboss for me is those soccer ball dudes in Strike Man's stage. They're far too chaotic. Luckily, Triple Blade shreds them.

Gaffle
Aug 23, 2013

sWAg

The voices are different between Grey and Ashe while they are assuming the forms of the bosses, though. Usually Grey copies the voice perfectly, and Ashe has different voices.

Gaffle
Aug 23, 2013

sWAg

StevenM posted:

In other news I finally beat MM3 and my impression of the Yellow Devil has mellowed considerably. I think it was down to having stormed through the Doc Robot stages and Wily 1/2 in one slog that made me so unhappy with the Devil boss yesterday - I've got the hang of his regeneration pattern down and it's a lot more manageable, though I'm still sloppy with the second attack where the blocks bounce across the floor. I should assume I'm in the same boat as everyone else who beat the game, regarding opinions on the rest of the boss fights (hate the clones, don't mind the Machine and Gamma).
How different is Mega Man 4 from 3 and is it worth picking up on the eShop?

Way to go, beating the Yellow Devil. Did you use the buster on him? If you ever do play the game again, his weakness is Shadow Blades. You can stand right at his feet and shoot them diagonally into the eye to shred him quickly. And if you REALLY don't want to deal with Yellow Devil, you can stand inside his body while it is still forming and be completely safe. The only things that can hurt you are his blocks, his shots and the fully formed body. After the first few blocks come in you can stand all the way to the right then hop out once the attack is nearly finished. As for the bouncing blocks attack... Yeah that one sucks.

Mega Man 4 is okay, but most of the robot masters suck. Remember how Magnet Man has that attack where he tries to suck you in with that really weak magnet and he's invincible the whole time, but there's no threat of actually taking damage, resulting in a huge waste of time? Almost half of MM4's robot masters do the same kind of thing. The only fun bosses in my opinion are Pharaoh Man, Dive Man and Ring Man. The stages themselves are okay, but this is also the game that introduces the charge shot, so lots of enemies have way more health, and they go crazy with boring minibosses that love to waste your time by being invincible, just like the actual bosses. Ring Man's stage is the worst offender with 4 MINIBOSSES. The special weapon selection is better than in 3, but it lacks a real standout weapon like 3's Magnet Missiles. In spite of all that, if you want more Mega Man and don't want to play 2 for whatever reason, then I say 4 is your best choice.

Edit: Actually, are you talking WiiU or 3DS eshop? If you have a WiiU then get Mega Man X.

Gaffle fucked around with this message at 02:48 on Jan 21, 2014

Gaffle
Aug 23, 2013

sWAg

Yeah, easy mode activates all the elf powers at the start, including the one that turns all the instant death spikes into happy floors that you can walk on freely. I get the feeling they made it to address complaints about Zero 1, but all they actually needed to do was give you the charge attacks at the start of the game rather than murder infinitely spawning enemies to "earn" them.

Gaffle
Aug 23, 2013

sWAg

Shadow Man is hard because he doesn't have a tell for his attacks. He'll either slide into you or throw the stars, but you don't know until he starts doing either, and then you only have a split second to react if he does the slide.

Gaffle
Aug 23, 2013

sWAg

Honestly, when you reach the postgame of BN2, a really broken deck is going to just be tons of * codes so you can cycle through your chips and get to your super PAs faster. Set your regular chip to fastgauge and slam a few fullcusts(this was before there were megachips!) and you can practically guarantee a Gater within the first 5 seconds of combat.

Gaffle
Aug 23, 2013

sWAg

alcharagia posted:

What styles are available in Battle Network 2? As an ardent advocate of Bug Style in 3, which I'm already aware isn't in 2, I need to find something else to viruses busting with once BN2 and I get to that point in our relationship.

No bug style sadly. You can get guts, shield, team and custom style. Luckily BN2 lets you have two style changes saved at once.

Gaffle
Aug 23, 2013

sWAg

Dabir posted:

On the other hand I found playing through BN5 (GBA version, but still) to be a horrible depressing slog. I felt like I was doing incredibly badly the whole way through, and that it was because there was literally no way for me to get my hands on better tools. And I was even using S-code in Team Colonel.

The DS version especially feels this way. You get a ton of really stupid tools throughout the game that I feel remove the need to care about your folder or anything else, and makes everything really samey. Chaos unison obliterates everything, so why really bother with chips? You also hardly even have to play as Megaman, especially in the DS versions between liberations, the tag battle system and another part of the story. When I played through Protoman version I got to the final dungeon with 280 max HP, since I could blast everything in a second or just play as Magnetman or whatever with 700 hp.

Then there's all the game's other problems like the terrible internet areas and gating off the 2 and 3 versions of all viruses and chips until after you finish the main game.

Gaffle
Aug 23, 2013

sWAg

LemonLimeTime posted:

So I just beat Azure Striker Gunvolt, and apparently I didn't get the real ending? Asimov or whoever pulls the trigger on Gunvolt and then it cuts to the credits from what I recall. When you save your file you go back to where you were before you beat the game, but I know you need the 6 (7? I can't remember how many there are) crystals from each of the Adepts to get the "true" ending. Thing is you can't seem to be able to go back to their stages after you beat all 6, and can only access the fortress stages...unless I'm wrong?

Press left on the mission select screen to go back to other levels. Simply having all 7 jewels isn't enough to get the true ending though, but you'll be able to figure it out.

Gaffle
Aug 23, 2013

sWAg

I like D the most. It could be fun or funny if it behaved like the actual gunvolt weapon. Plus I like the idea that Call is a gunvolt superfan and that's why she has the gun.

A reminds me of the energy guns from Fallout, specifically the mesmetron.

...but I have the utmost faith in the fans to pick the boring girly bow just as they picked boring Roll With Pink Hair

Gaffle
Aug 23, 2013

sWAg

The only thing that I dislike about Powered Up is that they changed all the level songs to have major key tonality. Fire Man's hellhole isn't supposed to sound like a happy place!

Gaffle
Aug 23, 2013

sWAg

The underwater sound effect in that first video is really annoying and loud, yikes.

Gaffle
Aug 23, 2013

sWAg

A lot of comparisons have been made between Gunvolt and Mega Man Zero, and as I think about it, most of the problems that I have with Gunvolt are because of those similarities, coupled with its unique mechanics. I actually feel like if Gunvolt was more like a classic Mega Man, with a focus on individual screens as obstacles as opposed to large scrolling levels, it would be better for it. As it is, the parts of the levels just kind of blend together, and the tiny screen real estate doesn't help at all.

Blackheart posted:

MM9 has, by far, the most versatile and fun robot master weapons. I think there's not a single bad one.

I could never find good uses for magma bazooka or concrete shot. They both felt pretty worthless to me, outside of boss battles and the sections that you must use concrete in Wily's castle. Well, at least they're better than skull barrier!

Gaffle
Aug 23, 2013

sWAg

ImpAtom posted:

Concrete Shot allows you to bypass a ton of obstacles or make dangerous jumps way safer. It isn't a great weapon but it is an amazing utility tool.

Magma Bazooka is kind of the worst of the lot, yeah. Especially since (surprise) it's a charge weapon with little benefit to being a charge weapon.
It's true that concrete shot can be used as a platforming aid, but I personally just can't justify its use when I also have access to Rush Coil and Jet.

...I never even knew that you could charge Magma Bazooka. How bizarre.



Screaming Idiot posted:

Another problem with 8-bit graphics: one of the draws for me with MM8 and other PSX titles was how each Robot Master/Maverick reacted to his weakness, with MM8 being the clear winner. Clownman got tied up in his own arms, Aquaman's water tank shattered, Grenademan giggled when you threw his grenades back at him, and so on. These visual cues are much more entertaining and immersive than seeing two more units disappear on a boss's lifebar when using the correct weapon.

I think you make a lot of good points with regard to the presentation of MM9 and 10. The 8-bit style made for a great boost to appeal to old school fans, but ultimately higher-quality presentation can add a whole lot to the game. Ideally, should Mega Man 11 ever actually happen, I'd like to see them follow Cave Story+'s example with options to choose old-school or modern graphics and sound.

Gaffle
Aug 23, 2013

sWAg

Sir Ilpalazzo posted:

This is from the last page, but I was just reading through the thread and I have to say I don't really get this. Sure, games like most Mario games (especially the recent ones) use them poorly, but why is being punished for repeated failure vestigial? As long as the system isn't implemented in a nonsensical way, all it does is increase tension with a tier of punishment beyond death, which is totally reasonable.

It is true that a game over can provide greater tension and incentive to play better and more carefully, but that really doesn't mean much in any game that allows you to save your progress easily. For Mario and Mega Man all a game over means is that I have to do the stage again from the start instead of the last checkpoint I hit. To people who realize this, a game over is almost entirely meaningless and that removes an incentive to play well. Most games, outside of the session-based/rogue-lite genre, aren't really designed to set the player back in any significant way when they fail--game overs don't really belong and a classical start-the-whole-game-from-the-beginning game over would be completely unfair given the scope of modern games. If game overs in modern games are just going to be half-assed the way they are then they're pointless.

Azure Striker Gunvolt is a recent game that takes a pretty interesting approach: you have infinite lives and also don't take damage as long as you aren't attacking. But if you get hit, you lose all of the points you have been building up but haven't cashed in at a checkpoint. So, the real tension comes from avoiding damage entirely and skipping checkpoints to get a larger score bonus. You can take all the time and lives you like against a boss to practice dodging and learn attack patterns, but when you face him in the real run, one hit is all it takes to tank your score.

Gaffle
Aug 23, 2013

sWAg

ImpAtom posted:

There is no problem with being punished for failure but lives don't do that very effectively. All they do is encourage someone to mindlessly grind up lives.

Look at Shovel Knight which uses a Dark Souls style system: Infinite lives but you lose money on each death but with the chance to recover it if you make it that far again without dying. Far more effective.

Lives systems work only if lives are insanely limited and thus extremely valuable. An extra life in Mega Man is neither and only there because arcade games had lives. Lives worked in arcade games because they were a reward. You didn't have to spend more money on the game. They were rare and special because arcade developers wanted to make more money. In Mario or whatever, lives are easily farmed and effectively meaningless.

So, how could we fix a game like Mega Man or Mario to avoid the problem of hoarding lives? When I was younger I would get pretty frustrated playing Mega Man when I would die repeatedly on some difficult stage--like Quick Man--when I finally got through and made it to the boss I had no lives and only a small portion of life left. Having a TON of extra lives would have solved this problem, but not really encourage me to play well. What if there weren't any extra lives, but you had a predetermined number of chances to get past each particular stretch of level? Let's say at each checkpoint you get your maximum of three chances to get to the next checkpoint, and if you fail to do so... something happens. Maybe you go back two checkpoints, maybe your score is negatively impacted, or maybe you get a mark of shame until you go back and complete that stretch of level properly, like what happens if you use the super guide in Mario 3D World.

Electromax posted:

A true Mega Man game should only have one life, and if you die you have to restart the entire game. Buster only.

Every Mega Man game can already be like this, it's just up to the player to enforce the challenge upon himself. The game definitely should not, unless it's some unlockable mode or cheat code or something

Gaffle
Aug 23, 2013

sWAg

My favorite is Gemini Man because if you don't shoot at him he won't shoot back and you can play jumprope with him and his clone while they run around in circles. It's kinda relaxing

Gaffle
Aug 23, 2013

sWAg

There is currently a Mighty No. 9 backer vote to determine whether the game will feature Japanese OR English voice acting.

Gaffle
Aug 23, 2013

sWAg

Animalese would be a great choice, as would Simlish

Gaffle
Aug 23, 2013

sWAg

The Bee posted:

So its literally Zero from the Mega Man Network Transmission game that nobody liked.

The game looks visually a lot like Network Transmission too, from the beta demos I've seen. Maybe it's just because they're both 2.5d but it makes me wonder how the game would look if they had gone with high quality sprites instead, even if 3d models are easier/cheaper.

Gaffle
Aug 23, 2013

sWAg

Wow they even reused the crappy mega man powered up music where all the songs are in major keys

Well, I guess it makes sense since they also reused everything else from powered up too.

Gaffle
Aug 23, 2013

sWAg

Bust Rodd posted:

Ok I just bought the MMZero collection for the 3DS.

What should I know going in? Are there sweet secret tricks I should know before I do anything? Are there weird algorithms I should know before trying to beat it?

In Zero 1 and 2 you have to level up your weapons by killing lots of enemies with them. In 1 you're able to run out and fight enemies outside of a mission after a certain point so you can grind a little bit without hurting your score if you really want to. Bosses get easier once you have charged attacks.

The letter grade you get from each mission is actually based on your average score from all the missions you've done in the game. In Zero 2 and 3 having an A or S rank on the main stages unlocks cute little EX skills like special sword moves and charge shots, so if you want them all you have to do consistently well. Zero 4 also has the skills but rank doesn't matter for unlocking them.

Using cyber elves tanks your score.

Fire beats ice, ice beats lightning, lightning beats fire.

Zero 2 also has unlockable forms that you get from having a specific playstyle in the main missions. You get lots of kills with the gun, you get a gun boosting form, lots of kills by reflecting bullets and you get one that lets you block bullets with the sword, etc.

Don't play the easy mode unless you want the games to be trivial. It gives you all the upgrades and cyber elves right away, including one that turns instant kill spikes into plain old floors and walls, among other things. They really do mean it when they say easy mode

Gaffle
Aug 23, 2013

sWAg


On the other side out of frame there's a small gap off the ground that you can slide through. Use the balloon to make a platform and reach the gap to slide through and reach it. The balloon is hidden in Pharaoh man's level if you didn't know.

Gaffle
Aug 23, 2013

sWAg

Rupert Buttermilk posted:

I just find it kind of weird how MM9 took the very same 3-screen segment and slapped it into Splash Woman's stage.

Poor lady robot masters can't catch a break; they finally get represented, and their levels aren't even original.

I seem to remember reading that the woman boss in 9 was originally going to be Honey Woman instead of Hornet Man but then they took a closer look at the design for Ocean Man and realized 'wait lol we already did water trident guy back in MM5' and switched it around. So that part of the stage could just be an intentional callback to Wave Man.

But apparently the actual reason for the switch was because Inafune thought a mermaid would be better and the Honey Woman design looked too much like cosplay
Other mm9 boss concepts

Gaffle
Aug 23, 2013

sWAg

If the level turns blank, that means there is a secret exit that you haven't found in it, where you'll fight the boss again and then get one of the 4 parts needed to use Beat. When you get the Beat part, it will be filled in with a letter. The secret exits require you to have either the power or jet adapters. The levels that get filled in with Mega Man heads don't have secret exits. It's not indicated on stage select whether or not you've found the energy balancer but it's hidden in Tomahawk Man's level.

Gaffle
Aug 23, 2013

sWAg



Anybody have this happen before? Playing MM2 on the Steam Legacy Collection. Fighting Bubbleman, standing up against the left wall, and when I get hit midjump, the boss door opens then pulls me right, to this screen. I could only move in the grey areas and the ladder didn't work, though the energy pickups did. Had to restart the game, with no way to leave the room or die.

Gaffle
Aug 23, 2013

sWAg

Rollersnake posted:

Knight Man, though—it's a pretty fun bouncy stage, but if there's a more pathetically easy boss in the entire series, I can't think of it.

Toad Man is the easiest, but even in just mm6 I'd put Plant Man, Yamato Man and Tomahawk Man as easier than Knight Man.

Gaffle
Aug 23, 2013

sWAg

Inticreates released patch 1.3 for Gunvolt 1 that adds Japanese Voice Mode

Though, apparently the patch keeps you from playing special stage 5. Hopefully that gets hotfixed.

Gaffle
Aug 23, 2013

sWAg

Larryb posted:

Out of curiousity, if you replay the final mission in the first game after getting the true ending do you always have to have the necklace equipped in order to trigger the Asimov fight again or is that only required for the first time through?

Yes having any other pendant equipped gets you the normal ending. If you do a run of Firmament for rank or challenges or whatever you won't want it equipped anyway.

Gaffle
Aug 23, 2013

sWAg

The Heat Man blocks are at least nice enough to start over solid ground, and then just be a repeating pattern. The blocks in the first fortress stage of MM1 GB have a similar trick, where one block in the pattern suddenly appears directly overhead, but they are over spikes the entire time.

Gaffle
Aug 23, 2013

sWAg

There's a subtle audio tell for seven slashes that indicates when to move and it is before any visual. Turn the volume up to hear it. Then stand at one edge of the screen and move to dodge the first one, jump to dodge the second one while moving back against the pillar made by the first one. For the third, run from the first pillar to the open edge of the screen. The fourth one is huge, but if you left enough space and start from the edge, there should be enough room left to dodge it. Then the attack is over.

For Manor, I can't really give you any specifics other than to look for more multikills and to do the extra part of the level by jumping over the second hexapyle. And make sure you get skill finishes on the bosses of both levels for bonus kudos.

Gaffle
Aug 23, 2013

sWAg

Best shield: Water Shield It's fun to use and versatile but not invincible. You can use it to hit enemies above and below, or move up close for a ton of hits on a big enemy.
#2: Junk Shield Basically the same deal as water shield, better at blocking, not as fun to throw. I don't really use it in MM7
#3: Jewel Satellite We all know how good it is. It's too good. Not very fun to use for me as a result

The others are all worse but similar so the in-game context becomes more important.

#4: Star Crash Blocks a hit or you can throw it. The other weapons in 5 mostly suck, and only Gyro can be shot up so you could use this to protect yourself from enemies above you. Works fine against Gravity Man and there are many good places to use it, most importantly getting past the falling crystals effortlessly in the Crystal Man stage.
#5: Leaf Shield I don't really like this one since it isn't really useful except on certain screens that seem to have been made to justify it, much like the Crash Bombs. I use it on moving platforms, Crash Man ladders and to kill Air Man and that's it.
#6: Skull Barrier Only blocks a hit. Terrible against Dive Man, despite being strong against him. Can't think of any scenario in the game where it's a better choice than Bright Stopper.
#7: Plant Barrier I've never ever even thought about using this thing. The real prize you get from beating Plant Man is the jetpack, hell yeah!

Fire Storm is a great weapon but I don't consider it to be a shield

Gaffle
Aug 23, 2013

sWAg

GV finds out the power was inside him the whole time and goes into anthem mode. You can also skip that part completely if you use a big enough attack skill before it starts.

Gaffle
Aug 23, 2013

sWAg

Mega Man Xtreme is better than almost all the real Mega Man Xs

Gaffle
Aug 23, 2013

sWAg

You can use the mega ball to fly, with proper timing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=buzCvgxpotE

Gaffle
Aug 23, 2013

sWAg

Dive missile is my top weapon in mm4. It one shots lots of peaky flying enemies like the red guys in drill man's level. Not that good against drill man himself though..

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Gaffle
Aug 23, 2013

sWAg

voltcatfish posted:

the pc version of gunvolt is Bad right

Yea it's a bad 3ds port. The switch version puts it to shame

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