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mllaneza
Apr 28, 2007

Veteran, Bermuda Triangle Expeditionary Force, 1993-1952




Numlock posted:

God-dam that makes me wish people played DBA around here.

With DBA, while not historical in any fashion, can you play against non-historical armies? Say your Samurai vs a Roman Legion?

The lists are pretty much only balanced against the ones they list as opponents. That said, go for it. Come to think of it, Romans v Samurai would be blades vs blades and those are usually pretty good matchups.

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mllaneza
Apr 28, 2007

Veteran, Bermuda Triangle Expeditionary Force, 1993-1952




Danger - Octopus! posted:

Companies that don't have pictures of their products, and then ship an order in unlabelled bags are rather annoying! I have several bags of 6mm tanks, and several bags of separate turrets, so now I need to scour the internet for pictures to work out which bags of turrets go with which bags of tanks!

I know a guy who does BSG and Star Trek ships in resin. I have received some unholy collections of parts in ziplock bags. Lucky for him he has pictures, but nothing as detailed as an assembly guide. Then there's Dave at PT Dockyard. Individually bagged with hand-drawn sketches for assembly guides. The real trick with his stuff is finding the machine guns amidst all the resin flash.

Good times with garage kits :-)

mllaneza
Apr 28, 2007

Veteran, Bermuda Triangle Expeditionary Force, 1993-1952




Verdugo posted:

I don't see it in the listing in the OP, does anyone play Command Decision: Test of Battle? It's the WWII game my group plays, and I can't find any real info about how it plays, outside of the website where it sells the book (only available in softcover / hardcover it looks like).

Command Decision has been around forever, I'm glad it's still in print. What it is a platoon-scale game. One model vehicle or stand of infantry is a whole platoon. A turn is fifteen minutes. Gameplay is built around command and control with leaders giving orders to the units. Orders don't affect firing so much as movement and morale. The Regroup order allows you to bring back "destroyed" units by combining two dead into one live unit. The actual moving and shooting things cover basically everything you'd need to do on the battlefield without being overly complex.

The beauty of the game is the scale. A Soviet tank brigade is 12 tanks and armored cars, 10 stands of misc foot, one stand each mortars, light AA and 45mm AT plus 2 crews, and 8 trucks or tractors. A 1942 rifle regiment is 33 assorted foot stands, a mortar a 45mm AT and a 76mm howitzer (and crews). They don't do points, but this is a great game for scenarios and campaigns.

edit: reading their blog it looks like they DID put in a points system in ToB

mllaneza fucked around with this message at 04:54 on Apr 6, 2012

mllaneza
Apr 28, 2007

Veteran, Bermuda Triangle Expeditionary Force, 1993-1952




Serotonin posted:

Maybe they aint big on exploitation of child labour?
And most of these firms that people are moaning about have been going around 20 years. They managed before the internet when the scenario was as I described in my previous post, and they are managing now. Most of these guys are great if you ring them or drop them an email and will bend over backwards to accommodate your needs.

I've always figured they should call up their local high school or college and sign up with the internship or work experience programs and ask for someone with a digital camera and some web design skills. The kids get academic credit and real world experience, the company gets a cheap website. Win-win. For the love of god miniatures companies, your teenaged relatives all have a 5 MP camera in their pocket, TAKE PICTURES OF EVERYTHING.

mllaneza
Apr 28, 2007

Veteran, Bermuda Triangle Expeditionary Force, 1993-1952




TheBlobThing posted:

Why paint beautiful and colourful uniforms, when you can't even see them?

Quantity has a quality of its own. You can get enough of the paint scheme on a 6mm figure that the unit as a whole looks like... a whole unit.

mllaneza
Apr 28, 2007

Veteran, Bermuda Triangle Expeditionary Force, 1993-1952




Not enough boats !

The latest hot thing in naval miniatures is rapid-prototyped models produced sold through a site like Shapeways. I've always been fond of the old CinC 1/4800 scale naval line, it's a great scale, they look almost as crisp and detailed as GHQ 1/2400s. But CinC stopped making new models after they did the British and German line. Now a talented 3D modeller is producing 1/4800 scale ships that are just gorgeous.

Here's HMS Malaya, a 3D render, not the final model. I've got some of these models and they really do look as good as the renders.



Sample models, the Dunkerque and Strasbourg painted up.



Brooklyn-class light cruisers


The CA Chokai


An assortment of USN landing craft and attack transports


And they're cheap, the complete set shown above, with 10 APAs, 10LST and 20LCI/LCTs is... $27.76
http://www.shapeways.com/model/593795/48us06-us-navy-amphibious-ships-amp-crafts.html

A couple of hundred aircraft in 1/4800 is :10bux:
http://www.shapeways.com/model/635989/1-4800-allied-aircraft-pack.html

Also enjoy photos of painted or rendered ships and WiP postings:
http://roetengco.blogspot.com/

I really need to finish painting mine.

mllaneza
Apr 28, 2007

Veteran, Bermuda Triangle Expeditionary Force, 1993-1952




YF19pilot posted:

So, what are some good rules to use in that scale? I'd love to get some kind of navy thing going if there are decent models/rules to be had.

Victory at Sea by Mongoose is a decent set, there were a ton of articles in S&P with more ships. The Convoy series has a good set of tactical rules, plus you get to play a whole convoy run as a campaign game. The publication on these is a bit convoluted, but if you pop into the Yahoo group you can PayPal the designer for a PDF.

edit: I should say more about the Convoy series. This game combines a set of tactical miniatures rules for air, sea and surface with a convoy-based campaign system. To set one up, the allied player rolls up a convoy, it's composition, escorts and route. The German player determines what he has available to attack it. Each campaign turn, the convoy moves one space and rolls an event. The event tables will set up an attack, cause a ship to straggle or some other of the things that can happen to a convoy. If there is an attack, it is fought out on the table.

The first edition was published by Clash of Arms. Reportedly royalties were not paid. What's definite is that the CoA editors stripped out the combat rules and put in an unplaytested cut-down of their own system. Two more ragged editions came out and finally there's a complete edition as originally intended. That's "Rising Storm", which covers the early years of the war. It's available from the author.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/WW2convoy/


edit: the IJN Cruiser set is available, http://www.shapeways.com/model/664968/48jn04-savo-island-ijn-cruisers.html $20 for a whole mess of cruisers.

mllaneza fucked around with this message at 19:44 on Aug 13, 2012

mllaneza
Apr 28, 2007

Veteran, Bermuda Triangle Expeditionary Force, 1993-1952




Mr.Booger posted:

Just for thought, I now have about 1500 28mm figs staring me in the face, mocking my ability to get them all done :)

Since those aren't GW figs, you should have enough money for the cocaine you'll need to get you through the painting project.

mllaneza
Apr 28, 2007

Veteran, Bermuda Triangle Expeditionary Force, 1993-1952




Pierzak posted:

We don't have a lot of American/British players. Many German, Russian, Polish (AK and AL). Different meta, goes with the territory :poland:

Speaking of, is anyone here interested in 17th century Poland? I'm wondering how well By Fire and Sword (the game, not the book/movie) is known abroad. Here it's huge, well-supported and has a thriving community.

Oh I love the stuff, any book that you can open at random and find a raid, duel, skirmish, escape, siege , or battle is ok with me. I've got the old Essex 15mm, maybe 20 stands worth. DBR or Musket and Lace seem best suited for rules in English. I really want Old Glory to get into the period, big cheap bags of gorgeous 15mm Cossacks, Reiters, Hussars and whatnot would be awesome.

mllaneza
Apr 28, 2007

Veteran, Bermuda Triangle Expeditionary Force, 1993-1952




Paper Mac posted:

I've heard very good things about Whistling Death, although the ruleset is on the hefty side.

JD Webster's games are the gold standard for air combat games. The rulebook is a bit thick, but the actual procedures for playing the game aren't that bad. Whistling Death covers the Pacific, Speed of Heat does Vietnam, Achtung: Spitfire and Over the Reich handle WW2 in Europe, Buffalo Wings focuses on just the Finnish-Russian fighting, and Air Superiority does Cold War.

Good stuff.

mllaneza
Apr 28, 2007

Veteran, Bermuda Triangle Expeditionary Force, 1993-1952




Colonial Air Force posted:

Man, working with nerds is great. I've already found two people who are definitely wargamers, and two who play obscure boardgames and are will to play wargames.

One of them even told me he wants to play large-scale poo poo like Napoleonics.

E: Although I don't play large scale poo poo like Napoleonics, so maybe I should point him towards buying his own armies to use on my table.

Yeah, I've got a fellow wargamer at my new job too. We're connected on linkedin.com, but there needs to be a grogout.com. I'm going to get his wife's email address and pass along some suggestions; probably NWS Steam and Iron, and Commander: Great War.

mllaneza
Apr 28, 2007

Veteran, Bermuda Triangle Expeditionary Force, 1993-1952




Serotonin posted:

undercoat black

This is the way to go. I'm not up for an effort post on black primer at the moment, but the short version is drybrush a darker shade, the shade you want, and a lighter shade in layers. Since large areas of color don't get submerged in color, the black primer at the edges shows through, and gives you a fantastic outline and shadows. Drybrushing is also faster because you aren't putting as much paint down at once, so it dries much faster than wash or even regular painting.

Come to the dark side.

mllaneza
Apr 28, 2007

Veteran, Bermuda Triangle Expeditionary Force, 1993-1952




Southern Heel posted:

I apologise if it feels like I'm monopolising the thread but I can feel the neckbeard sprouting as we discuss. I'm playing a demo of DBA with myself and I'm having a little trouble wrapping my head around the rules for multiple combats/flank charges, etc.

- If a North Greek 3Cv charges the flank of 2x4Sp in column formation, do both elements turn to face? Since they were otherwise unengaged I assumed yes. If no, would I roll two combats (one for each of the Spears? Or if not would I only roll a dice for the 3Cv?)
- If that 3Cv wins and causes the 4Sp to recoil it will push back the other 4Sp behind it. That rear Spear unit is in a bad place though and I ruled it as destroyed, since it will:
-- a) graze the front of another Greek unit
-- b) bump into the flank of another friendly Spear unit that it can't push back or pass through (since THAT unit has a different facing)
- General Flank Questions:
-- Can I use my 'half a width shift' on a flank charge to make sure my front corners are hitting the enemy front corner for that sweet flank penalty?
-- Does a unit that flank charges an already engaged enemy get to do anything, or does it just contribute to the front-engagement via above penalty and instakill if the enemy loses?

* I would say just the contacted unit turns to face. Just roll against contacted units.
* Recoiling should mean dead in this case.
* That's what the shift is for, seize that bonus.
* The bonus to the other engagement and the instal-kill is what it's doing.

If you flank somebody that badly you've basically won. DBA is not a ruleset that will try and drag that out. As a bonus, you now probably have time for a rematch.

I used DBA as my in-store demo a couple of decades ago, it drummed up a lot of interest in historicals. It has a lot going for it as an introductory or quick-play wargame.
* At 15mm or smaller it needs little terrain or space to play. I had two games going at once on a 5'x2'6" table.
* 15mm or smaller armies are cheap, easy to paint, and a great gateway drug to the hobby.
* It plays really fast, 45 minutes was common for 100YW armies with lots of knights, an hour and a half is the longest game I've ever regularly seen with DBA.

e:
For my demos I set up the terrain, and my philosophy is that the more the merrier. I once gave a two camel-archer armies a hilly map with a lot of river ( main stream and a tributary in a Y formation) and just enough open plain to make it plausible those armies would actually engage. Those poor bastards spent a little over two hours maneuvering, trying to line up attacks where a recoil would turn into a kill. We had to stay almost an hour past closing time to finish, and the managers were watching the game after counting out the registers. It was glorious.

mllaneza fucked around with this message at 07:38 on Oct 23, 2014

mllaneza
Apr 28, 2007

Veteran, Bermuda Triangle Expeditionary Force, 1993-1952




Southern Heel posted:

Thank you very much - just in regard to that first point, I've just attached a quick pick of the situation, to confirm you say the middle step is true? What if the unmarked grey units were part of a larger group? I can see that LH, CA and PS all confirm to a targetted element in a group, but it doesn't say what happens with other units (which I guess is even more curious, since you mentioned that flanking doesn't provide combat, only bonuses to existing combat)

- The whole group turns (unlikely)
- The flanking unit must pick an element to attack, and only that unit turns
- The flanking unit must pick an element to attack, and that unit + supporters turns
- The flanking unit must pick an element to attack, and any unit in contact with the flanker turns



From the pictures I'd say you've got it almost right. The third picture should have a single unmarked brown cardboard unit facing to the left in the pictures, not down (towards the 3 CV). All that unit should be doing on the owning player's next turn is pivoting to face your cavalry, and that's what the rules allow.

mllaneza
Apr 28, 2007

Veteran, Bermuda Triangle Expeditionary Force, 1993-1952




Colonial Air Force posted:

Well, there's probably some stigma against playing the Axis, but then there ought to be. Mostly it means that a lot of the dudes who plays Nazis are actually Nazis (just like in reenacting).

Somebody has to play the baddies. It's just that some people are suspiciously enthusiastic.

mllaneza
Apr 28, 2007

Veteran, Bermuda Triangle Expeditionary Force, 1993-1952




For little dudes, at 15mm or smaller the only sane standard is "does this look ok held at arms length ?" Remember, people will be awed by the whole panoply of your force, not picking over every tiny man.

mllaneza
Apr 28, 2007

Veteran, Bermuda Triangle Expeditionary Force, 1993-1952




El Estrago Bonito posted:

It's mechanically a really cool game but good luck finding someone to play with outside of Poland.

Also all the miniatures are sculpted by one dude and his output can be, um, variable.

I've had a small Polish army made up of Essex minis for ages. If anyone has some Turks or Cossacks or whatever and is near San Francisco; well I'm game.

mllaneza
Apr 28, 2007

Veteran, Bermuda Triangle Expeditionary Force, 1993-1952




muggins posted:

I would play the gently caress out of an accessible Ironclad game. I would paint a million ironclads.

The complicated one is probably one of the versions of the old Yaquinto boardgames "Ironclads". I've been playing that off and on since about 1980. It's got a data card for every ship with weapons, armor, and maneuver data; uses plotted movement, and isn't reeeeeally all that complex. You'd want the edition done by 3W, it's got the expansion set worked in so you get all the European and South American ironclads.

https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/6924/shot-and-shell

mllaneza
Apr 28, 2007

Veteran, Bermuda Triangle Expeditionary Force, 1993-1952




Colonial Air Force posted:

Anyone?


Also, c'mon. Nobody got this?

General Quarters and Seekrieg are the standards for naval wargaming. I don't know what the current version numbers are for either, but they both have solid fanbases.

mllaneza
Apr 28, 2007

Veteran, Bermuda Triangle Expeditionary Force, 1993-1952




Phi230 posted:

If you don't mind more of a naval game the Fleet series is great. Still a wargame but MUCH more playable than Harpoon. I reccomend 7th Fleet.

Fleet series:
https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgamefamily/106/fleet-series

This is a really clever game system. You have to plan your attacks and reactions very carefully, the players have a lot of decisions to make in even small scenarios, and all the components are gorgeous. Strongly recommended if you can find copies on the used market.

Air Superiority
https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/3613/air-superiority

This dates from the 80s, so it's missing newer stuff, but the series as a whole is a great sim of air combat. It packs in enough detail to be a decent reference. Gameplay is pretty smooth once you get the hang of the surprisingly simple procedures to actually fly aircraft around. There's a ground strike expansion and some WW2 games as well. I played a ton of this in college and let me tell you, shooting down AFROTC guys is hilarious.

mllaneza
Apr 28, 2007

Veteran, Bermuda Triangle Expeditionary Force, 1993-1952




Phi230 posted:

Also Air War : Modern Tactical Air Combat and its expansion Air Strike.

Though both are very rare.

Now THERE was a complex game ! Not as accurate as you'd want for that highly detailed of a system either.

mllaneza
Apr 28, 2007

Veteran, Bermuda Triangle Expeditionary Force, 1993-1952




Arquinsiel posted:

TBH at 6mm I can't really see the point in GHQ. I'm not going to paint most of this detail anyway, so why bother having it?

You can see it. Do some highlighting and the extra detail pops out.

I assume that at 6mm you're starting dark and working up to brighter shades.

mllaneza
Apr 28, 2007

Veteran, Bermuda Triangle Expeditionary Force, 1993-1952




DiHK posted:

Just gonna leave this vaguely historical kickstarter here.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1263001724/hot-and-dangerous

Hedwig and the Angry 88.

mllaneza
Apr 28, 2007

Veteran, Bermuda Triangle Expeditionary Force, 1993-1952




I just caught a link to a Flames of War campaign vlog set in Norway in 1940. It's well presented, they build great terrain, and had a fantastic game in this AAR. A quick watch at 10 minutes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-5Qjj8Qt9LE

e. Love the preview image on the video.

mllaneza
Apr 28, 2007

Veteran, Bermuda Triangle Expeditionary Force, 1993-1952




EdsTeioh posted:

Is anyone familiar with Johnny Reb? I found a ton of stuff for it an an antique store recently and am pondering getting it.

Johnny Reb spent a good period of time as the go to set of ACW rules. Per BGG, it had three editions, you probably want John Hill's 3e, 'cause he does good rules. But cheap rules are cheap rules, and even 1e was playable enough to get a following.

https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/4510/johnny-reb-iii

mllaneza
Apr 28, 2007

Veteran, Bermuda Triangle Expeditionary Force, 1993-1952




EdsTeioh posted:

Thanks for the response; I thought this was going to get buried. I remember seeing Johnny Reb a lot back in the late 80's a local comic and game shops, but didn't have any interest in ACW back then. I'm pretty sure the set in question has a full Confederate and Union army (100+ figures from what he's saying) and the ruleset. All painted and based for $150. Think I might grab it to use in Black Powder at least if JR isn't that great.

Even if you end up dunking figures into Simple Green, that sounds like a pretty fair bargain.

mllaneza
Apr 28, 2007

Veteran, Bermuda Triangle Expeditionary Force, 1993-1952




Phi230 posted:




I made a ghetto light box

Don't mind the single strand of cat hair

That's a nice looking LAV and a good photo. Gratz on the light box.

Post the catte

mllaneza
Apr 28, 2007

Veteran, Bermuda Triangle Expeditionary Force, 1993-1952




Phi230 posted:

Should I just go with black primer instead?

Should I not be using a black wash on such a color at all?

Nope. With a black primer you want to build up from the shadows to the highlights. I mostly drybrush over black primer. If I want a normal hue of blue, I start with a pass of dark blue, then the shade I want, then lighter shade, and maybe finish with a very soft white drybrush to punch up the highlights. I find that the layers of progressively lighter hues will give the finished figure a nice glow.


Here, some old school 15mm, Essex Renaissance Poles painted with my technique.



mllaneza
Apr 28, 2007

Veteran, Bermuda Triangle Expeditionary Force, 1993-1952





I remember that game ! Not a bad game for the period and scale. I'd actually recommend digging up a copy of Assault and its expansions if you want to really get geeky about the 1980s in Europe. Also, I like Frank Chadwick designs more than John Southward's.

For non-hex n' counter games, there's also Command Decision which will give you battalion scale rules and equipment lists for 1939-1992. That was a very sophisticated game for the early 90s and it should hold up against modern games.

mllaneza
Apr 28, 2007

Veteran, Bermuda Triangle Expeditionary Force, 1993-1952




JcDent posted:

Define "more geeky?" Fire Team seems difficult enough, or it rates itself like that.

Assault has 4 expansions (more stuff, air cav, Bundeswehr, Brits) , making it more of a challenge to collect.

mllaneza
Apr 28, 2007

Veteran, Bermuda Triangle Expeditionary Force, 1993-1952




Moooooooooooon posted:

similar to the below image.

That's a nice looking army !

I want to call out what you're planning on doing that is oh so very right, in the hopes it will help others. Namely, using paintings rear end reference instead of photos. Wargame minis aren't photorealistic. You want to copy techniques and take inspiration from another artist's rendering of the subject. Color photos will always be definitive, but there's no better painting guide than someone else who picked up a brush and addressed the subject.


e. this is why Angus McBride is our Light and our Way.

mllaneza
Apr 28, 2007

Veteran, Bermuda Triangle Expeditionary Force, 1993-1952




Loomer posted:

Yeah, you're not wrong, even as a 1/72 fanatic. Massed army battles are another story but even there 10mm or 15mm make compelling cases. My favourite scale is basically the red-headed stepchild of gaming.

It could be worse, I'm into 1/4800 naval miniatures. There's actually a lot of good support for that scale on Shapeways, at nearly GHQ levels of quality, but it's not a popular scale.

But how can you not want this ? $17.19 worth of Smooth Fine Detail Plastic right there.

https://www.shapeways.com/product/QGKMTCEWL/48jn04-savo-island-ijn-cruisers?optionId=5701315

mllaneza
Apr 28, 2007

Veteran, Bermuda Triangle Expeditionary Force, 1993-1952




spectralent posted:

I know it's not quite the thread but, if you're into tabletop RPGs and you're interested in historical wargames, I HIGHLY recommend PATROL, by Newstand Press, which comes in Vietnam and WW1 flavours. It's a game about being drafted into a war you hate where the place you're stuck is miserable and everything is trying to kill you, and not going too insane despite those first three things.

Also I played 'Nam and it's not bad. You really need to play to the end to let NVA get the use out of attrition tactics though.

It also exists in Star Wars form, and somebody really needs to run a squad of battledroids as a convention one-shot.

mllaneza
Apr 28, 2007

Veteran, Bermuda Triangle Expeditionary Force, 1993-1952




spectralent posted:

I somehow had no idea and this sounds amazing. Link?

This was easier than I had expected to find again,

https://www.patreon.com/posts/14624245

mllaneza
Apr 28, 2007

Veteran, Bermuda Triangle Expeditionary Force, 1993-1952




Class Warcraft posted:

I think they gave some teasers about Cruel Seas on their last podcast. If I remember correctly it's supposed to be like brown water skirmishes between destroyers/patrol boats/whatever

I'm already invested in that in 1/600 and 1/1250. I'm sure there's no chance they go with either existing scale.

mllaneza
Apr 28, 2007

Veteran, Bermuda Triangle Expeditionary Force, 1993-1952




Class Warcraft posted:

Yeah, the December issue.


Meanwhile I'm on the exact opposite trajectory. At first I wasn't that interested but after reading the battle report in the magazine I liked how it seemed to play and I love the Bolt Action activation mechanic.

Table size for 1/300 scale boats is going to be an awful issue. PY Dockyard has you covered for 1/600

https://ptdockyard.com

There's also a very nice line of 1/1250 boats and ships from Figurehead. I got mine from Last Square

http://www.lastsquare.com/zen-cart/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=103_146

Pics:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/49600326@N06/4728488543/in/photostream/

mllaneza
Apr 28, 2007

Veteran, Bermuda Triangle Expeditionary Force, 1993-1952




muggins posted:

I need some ACW ironclad rules that aren't like pounding nails into my balls, someone help!

Then you want the old Yaquinto Ironclads game and play it with miniatures instead of on hexes. The best version of that game is 3W's Shot & Shell,

https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/6924/shot-and-shell

The joy of that game is in pounding your opponents into submission, the damage tables and critical hits get vicious. Movement is pre-plotted so there's a chance to outwit the enemy every turn. There are spar torpedoes that let you one-shot anything if you ram them with one; a spare torpedo is literally a barrel of gunpowder on a stick. There are also actual rams, ships designed with a nasty underwater beak to tear open other ships. It's also something that you can teach to experienced wargamers after you've gotten them hosed up on hashish, so it's pretty approachable set of rules.

There are massive number of ships in the game. It covers just about everything from the American Civil War, plus South American and European ships to cover all of 1858-1870. Forts are well-represented, since many ACW actions involved ship to shore bombardment.

S&S goes into a lot of detail on individual ships. It tracks armor on a pretty wide scale, 1-27 are the practical range. Weapons likewise are tracked in granular detail. Guns have a damage rating from 1-10, with a few late-period heavy guns at 15 for, you guessed it, shot or shell ammunition; their range table shows the chance to hit and damage multiplier for various ranges. Damage multipliers are keys to the game - get close and your damage 10 gun versus 16 armor becomes a damage 30 gun versus 16 armor. The damage table is in columns of damage minus armor, and the good results are very much concentrated to the right.

Let's take the USS Carondelet and the CSS Atlanta as examples, because I pulled their ship cards out of the box at more or less random. The Carondelet was a squat, ugly turtle of a ship. Just a casemate with two paired smokestacks. The Atlanta was also a casemate with a smokestack, but had better lines on the casemate; follow the links and look at their pictures and you'll see. One thing about looking at pictures of this kind of ship is that you can't always count gunports to get the number of guns. On many ships,guns at corners would pivot between two ports. The Atlanta has only 4 guns, but 8 ports. Her 3-gun broadside is composed of the bow and stern guns, plus the one gun actually on the port or starboard side.

Let's shoot stuff. The Carondelet didn't have the biggest guns, her 3 8" Dahlgren smoothbore muzzle loaders mounted forwards compared poorly to the 11" guns fitted to the USS Monitor. Later monitors would have 15" Dahlgrens that could smash a big hole, producing clouds of splinters [1]. They're rated as 5/4 for shot/shell, and let's give them a 3x multiplier at a range of 3 hexes. That's a 15 versus the Atlanta's waterline armor of 19, and casemate armor of 27. Uh oh. Let's put two guns firing shot on her, and one firing explosive shell at a random wooden gunboat who really doesn't want to be here.

The wooden gunboat CSS Fulton has a hull armor of 5, so we roll with a 12-5= +7. The result is a p*2a-c. That's a critical hit, 2 points of armor removed, and a crew factor killed; that's out of 26 at start so no biggie. For the critical hit we roll 2d6, a 9 gives a result for a casemate hit with shell of 1a, 2H, 3C, and a roll on the Fire table. It's 1-2 on a d6 to catch fire, and we roll a 5. She's lot 4 of 26 crew, 2 of 30 hull - at 15 damage to hull she starts taking Float damage and rolling on a not-quite-critical-hit special damage table (there are lots of special damage tables).

Against the Atlanta both guns will hit and roll a 2 one the 0 to -4 column, which is an A. That's two points of armor removed and 1 flotation hit for each damaging hit on the waterline hit location. She's down 2 armor from 19 on that waterline location, and took 2 Float hits out of 28. 12 more to start taking consequences from flooding.

The Atlanta has 6.4" Brooks Rifles in the bow, port, and starboard positions, with a 7/6 rating. Her stern gun is a 7" Brooks rated at 10/8. They get their 3x multiplier at range 5 and 7 respectively. Let's go with a 5-hex range broadside against the Carondelet's 14 point bow casemate armor. At 3x that's 21-14 twice, and 30-14 once. A 4 and a 5 gives is A and H damage. She got off lightly, that's minimal damage for heavy hits. A 1 or 2 would have been penetrating hits and done much more. The 7" gun rolls a 3. That's a penetrating hit plus 2A. A 3 on the Penetrating Hit table adds A-2H-C to the total. From 3 point blank hits at point blank range, the Carondelet has had her bow armor reduced from 14 to 10, lost 3 out of 28 Hull points, and one of 35 crew points.The compromised bow armor will constrain her tactics, she can't afford to point her best guns at anything that can hit back any more.

I seriously love this game and can't recommend it highly enough. I've seen every ironclads game published since. You want this one.


[1] Punching a projectile through several inches of wood and iron produces clouds of large splinters moving very fast. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XfsuIaTU92Y

mllaneza
Apr 28, 2007

Veteran, Bermuda Triangle Expeditionary Force, 1993-1952




Cessna posted:

An era I'd absolutely love to get into but know would be a total waste of time and money is Russo Japanese war naval.

Old Glory has a line of 1/600 scale ships for this war. They are flat-out beautiful:



But the problem is that they're too drat big.

Too bad, those ships sure look good.

Good news ! War Times Journal does rules and models for pre-deed through WW1 in scales ranging from 1/1250 to 1/3000. They're 3D printed, so they can also do every popular scale in between. I have some 1/2400 WW1 destroyers for a diorama project I had honestly forgotten about, and they're pretty detailed for that scale, and affordable.
http://www.wtj.com/store/index.html

But I very badly need some of those 1/600s for display purposes.

And, speaking of boats, I eBayed a copy of Wargames Illustrated 374 with the Cruel Seas sprue. I got the Vesper sprue. It's two different boats; one early and one late-war MTB. I could want the models to be a little more detailed given the scale, but they look good. Pics this weekend when I'm home during daylight.

Flipping through the article I see that each boat has a data card/damage record and there are damage markers to put on them. Pricing is going to be £50/$80 for a starter box with 6 MTBs and 4 S-Boats and a bunch of markers and stuff, or £20/$32 for a softcover rulebook. That's not bad at all, if you assume $5 a boat you're ahead on price just for models and rules, the markers, rules, and templates come free.

However, at 1/300 this will be a very crowded tabletop; 5'x8' minimum. I'd say go with 1/1250 or 1/600 if you want to play boats. I'll have the lightbox out anyway this weekend, so I'll do some of my smaller models as well.

mllaneza
Apr 28, 2007

Veteran, Bermuda Triangle Expeditionary Force, 1993-1952




Boats ! Boats ! Boats !

In which mllaneza rambles about coastal forces again.

After actually reading the whole article on Cruel Seas there are a few more items of note. Initiative will be on roughly the came chit draw system as Bolt Action. Larger weapons roll more dice and have longer range, probably also like Bolt Action. And one fun note. Each boat has three defined speed bands, you have to move the max for your speed setting, and you can turn 45 degrees after each full increment moved. Where it gets cool is the "wake marker". The boxed set includes these markers, several inches long and tapered a bit, marked in thirds. Each third represents a move increment for the boat. That works out to the more wake marker is showing, the faster the boat is moving. That's a very good use of play aids.

I promised pictures. Here are some rainy-day photos of my boats.





There's the early-war 70' Vesper boat with two torpedo tubes and one twin LMG turret. I couldn't resist and had it off the sprue and the cockpit deckhouse mounted before I got the lightbox set up. X-Acto knife in the background for scale. It's a decent model with a fair amount of accuracy but not a lot of detail; IIRC these boats had plywood decks anyways so we aren't missing much. In the second photo you can see the deckhouse for the late-war boat; it's in two pieces and is meant to fit around a raised area on the main deck.



There's a good shot of the sprue. Weapons, torpedo tubes, masts, and deckhouses are all that go on the hull. Very simple, but will look good with a good paint job. Too drat big, but see below for answers to that.







My in-progress 1/600 scale resin Russian boats from PT Dockyard. These could be more detailed; and cleaning the flash off of the weapons is an exercise in not ruining your model with an X-Acto, but they're very recognizably what they're meant to be. For garage kits, reasonably priced (those gunboats go for about $2.50), and accurate enough. They need a little work yet.





That's targets and escort trawlers in 1/1250 from Figurehead. Works in progress, but showing up very nicely for such small models. It's two trawlers per pack at $7.00.





S_Boots, S-18 variant I think, in line abreast. These are also 1/1250 Figurehead (the 1/6000 scale WW1 and 2 naval people) I got from Last Square. These are $9.50 for a pack of 4 boats. Excellent detail on the models and cheap.
Also needs detail work.





Fairmile-Ds and 70' Vospers. As pictured, $16.50 worth of models and you've got a very flexible British starter lineup.

To sum up, Cruel Seas is going to have some very nice models, but you're getting into Parking Lot Syndrome For Boats if you're playing on a small table (less than 5' by 8'). I'd recommend the CS starter box to get the rules and components, and go with one of the smaller scales for actual play. That leaves you the big models for display or convention play.

Now I realize three things: I need to finish these two projects, I need to post about other rules, and I need to do a post about books about coastal forces.

Until then, War Thunder is F2P and it has boats !

e. Fixed images, the whole gallery is online at: https://imgur.com/a/77sHkqn

mllaneza fucked around with this message at 07:44 on Dec 18, 2018

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mllaneza
Apr 28, 2007

Veteran, Bermuda Triangle Expeditionary Force, 1993-1952




Endman posted:

I’m really considering picking up some of GHQ’s 1:2400 ships from the First World War.

Unfortunately I’ve only got a 4x3’ table to work with, so I imagine they’ll be rather close range engagements.

You should seriously consider 1/3000 or 1/6000. Figurehead makes a complete range of WW1 1/6000. WTJ.com has 1/3000 which are noticeably smaller and cheaper, if also less detailed. For WW2 I'd recommend 1/4800, but nobody has a full range of WW1 1/4800.

Given the 4' x 3' table, go 1/6000. At the high end of the range, going by lastquare.com's pricing, all of the RN present at Jutland is US$255; or, a pack of 4 battleships is $8. They look what they're supposed to be, and have as much detail as you could expect in this scale. A matched set of cruiser action miniatures would go $30-50 for each of two sides. Go for those.

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