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Humbug
Dec 3, 2006
Bogus

Linedance posted:

this might sound like a stupid question but:
Given how commonplace automatic transmissions of various flavours are, especially in the North American market, it seems they can't be that much more expensive to produce, especially given the volume, compared to a manual transmission. Could it be that in certain circumstances, due to tooling and volume etc., that the manual transmission is actually more expensive to produce? In the UK, where manual is still the "standard" option, and automatics are an expensive upgrade, could that difference in production cost actually mean that in some cases the base model manual transmission is actually a more expensive car to build than the upgraded automatic, but the margins on upselling the auto more than make up for it?
Or is that all just a load of speculative crap with no bearing on reality because manuals are vastly cheaper to build?

Its not a stupid question, and i think the economics behind it are quite complex. For many cars, i suspect the sole reason for an manual option to exist is to give a lower base price, and charge for the not really optional automatic. An example could bee the Mercedes E-class that is offered with a manual transmission in Europe, although probably less than 2% of cars sold is so equipped. R&D costs for the manual probably heavily outweighs the loss of customers because of no manual option, but thy can offer a lower base price to lure in customers. After the sunk cost of R&D is considered, i think the per unit cost of manual transmissions will pretty much always be lower.

More news related, Ford is heavily featuring the new Mustang on their European websites, and will do a pre-order promotion during the champions league soccer finals. Although my country (Norway) is probably one of the most hostile tax-wise towards the idea of cheap, high-powered sportscars , i struggle to see how there is a business case for the Mustang in Europe, especially considering the R&D invested to make it "global" like the IRS and 2.3 ecoboost. Is cars like the Genesis Coupe or 370Z selling in any number in other European markets? I don't know if the AmCar Enthusiasts are as prevalent in other markets either but I can imagine the association to be negative for quite a large percentage of potential buyers of expensive sports cars(probably more than $100K here)

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Humbug
Dec 3, 2006
Bogus

Throatwarbler posted:

It seems very unlikely that they were going to retain the live axle on the 2015 even if it wasn't being sold in Europe. Similarly the 2.3l engine is being used in all kinds of other products.

Yes Norway is an expensive market for cars. It's also tiny. When people talk about Western Europe they are really just talking about Germany, France, Britain and Italy. Ford has always had a big footprint in Britain and IIRc does respectably well in Italy. Cars aren't that expensive in Britain so it will probably work out OK.

Fair point on the R&D stuff, and Ford does fine all over Europe (Norway included). It's more that the mustang is a very different car to the ones they sell already. It just seems to me like the market for fairly powerful sportscars (ie not faster versions of normal cars) from non-premium producers seems marginal compared to the US. The Genesis coupe isn't sold in any European market as far as I know, and the sales of the 370Z seems marginal. The Camaro is also sold in some markets with not much success.

http://left-lane.com/european-car-sales-data/nissan/nissan-370z/

I am just not sure it is worth making any compromises that would make it less competitive in the all-important US market to make it global. If it isn't compromised, then i guess it doesn't hurt to try.

Humbug
Dec 3, 2006
Bogus

Q_res posted:

You realize he's pointing out that the car has a Shaker that is in no way connected to the intake, right? To be fair though, if it were functional it wouldn't actually do much of anything.



I think it ducks outside air into the air cleaner box. Other than a different filter configuration, it seems do do much the same as the original shaker (i.e not much)

Humbug
Dec 3, 2006
Bogus

Q_res posted:

That doesn't make sense, in terms of airflow, if it actually connected to the intake it would be "behind" the filter. It'd be shoving unfiltered air into the intake.
I think there is a pipe just visible in that picture that feeds into the hole in the corner of air filter box. Ignore the bold claims of the picture i found.

Humbug
Dec 3, 2006
Bogus

a primate posted:

All I want is a diesel hatch that doesn't come with a ridiculous "sorry you don't live in Europe" surcharge. Is there a reason diesels are so expensive in North America besides economies of scale?

A Golf with the 2.0 tdi starts at about $35700 in Germany. and ends up at about $40000 at highline trim with a DSG. Diesels are expensive.

Humbug
Dec 3, 2006
Bogus

ilkhan posted:

Why is that?

I mean, there have to be farms and trailers and all sorts of workmen in Europe too, right?

Its a lot about licences. If its too heavy to be carried/trailed behind a Sprinter or equivalent, it is probably going to require a commercial truck licence. If you take that expense, you can just as well get a proper commercial truck like this. This varies a bit across Europe though.


[EDIT] To add to this, heavy vehicles(above 3,5 tons here at least) are often speed limited to about 50-60 mph, removing some incentive to use them for non commercial applications.

Humbug fucked around with this message at 17:04 on Aug 29, 2015

Humbug
Dec 3, 2006
Bogus
New Volvo S90 has been revealed. I think it looks nice. Wagon should follow soon

Humbug
Dec 3, 2006
Bogus

Mange Mite posted:

How Chinese is Volvo nowadays?

Chinese ownership, and a plant for making Chinese market cars in China. Volvo headquarters, design, R&D and most plants for the rest of the world is still in Sweden i think. The sedan at least has some details to make it more Chinese-friendly for sure, but if it keeps the big car platforms alive, i couldn't care less. I wonder if the S-Class, A8, A7 6- and 7 series etc would all be around if it wasn't the Chinese love for big sedans?

Humbug
Dec 3, 2006
Bogus
Where do you all live where light from oncoming traffic doesn't overpower any other night vision concerns? My interior light is green while the stereo is bright blue/white, but i cant really say i care about either when i get a facefull of xenon every 15 seconds. I dont think i ever develop any meaningful night vision that gauge light is going to ruin while driving.

Humbug
Dec 3, 2006
Bogus

fyodor posted:

Crank windows means never having to replace motors. I dream of having them on modern cars because ok sure.

I have the opposite experience. Manual cranks seems to often be hosed by POs strongarming open frozen windows, while i havent had any power windows fail on me yet.

Humbug
Dec 3, 2006
Bogus
W210 awd E-class front spring.



I would still consider Mercedes the least "why the gently caress" of the Germans

Humbug
Dec 3, 2006
Bogus

Pryor on Fire posted:

:stare:

rip cars, welcome to the 2nd suv gilded age

Ford Fiesta -16% to 4,946;
Ford Fusion -33% to 190,52;
Ford C-MAX -29% to 1,586;
Ford Mustang -17% to 8,299;
Ford F-Series -6% to 66,946;
Ford Explorer -16% to 18,294;
Ford Transit +17% to 11,993;
Lincoln MKX +50% to 2,643;
Lincoln MKC +2% to 2,451;
Lincoln Utilities +12% to 6,164

Eh. The Fiesta, C-max and Fusion are getting old, and are losing competitiveness in very competitive markets. That is a dramatic drop, but i think you need to view it more industry-wide.

To compare, BMW has an aging suv lineup, and has a large drop in truck sales for july 2016 compared to july 2015, although the YTD is different. The numbers are actually quite curious, like for the 6-series.

http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/bmw-group-us-reports-july-2016-sales-300307820.html

Humbug fucked around with this message at 15:11 on Sep 1, 2016

Humbug
Dec 3, 2006
Bogus

totalnewbie posted:



Has this been discussed here?

Variable compression seams neat, but adding massive complexity just to improve fuel efficiency isn't really my thing. Am i right in thinking such an engine could run the diesel cycle on petrol, assuming the system can handle very high compression ratios? That would probably mean massively increased particulate emissions too.

Humbug
Dec 3, 2006
Bogus

Enourmo posted:

Gasoline has a higher autoignition point than diesel, you'd have to bump the compression even higher than diesels already do.

I know. The idea would be to adjust compression so that a very lean homogeneous air/fuel mix would "knock" at tdc. giving greater efficiency, while still having low compression/high boost/rich mixture for max power. I guess the heat might be too much for consumer grade pistons/heads to handle, even if the compression variation system would be up to the task.

Humbug fucked around with this message at 21:42 on Sep 30, 2016

Humbug
Dec 3, 2006
Bogus

totalnewbie posted:

No, even at higher compression it would still be spark ignited. Otto and Diesel cycles are too different to put them into a single engine.

Complexity is surely the biggest concern. But it would be interesting to see what kind of fuel consumption this engine has that Nissan was able to justify such a radical system.

Ok. I just remember reading about a prototype Mercedes engine that ran on that principle. Had to look it up
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DiesOtto
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homogeneous_charge_compression_ignition

I guess i ment HCCI and not diesel, and i didn't mean that that Nissan engine was doing it. Just that variable compression can make it possible.

Humbug
Dec 3, 2006
Bogus

totalnewbie posted:

Okay, I just read an article about HCCI and latest related developments. While the engines are still technically on the Otto cycle (Diesel vs Otto: http://users.encs.concordia.ca/~kadem/MECH%20351/NOTES/7_Diesel_%20cycle.pdf )

The problem with HCCI is that you have a lot of difficulty controlling ignition timing. Variable compression would help with that, but I'm not sure if the system would be able to adjust quickly enough. Anyway, HCCI basically has a small window where it can operate and the rest of the time it would have to be SI, so the overall benefits aren't there. But basically, variable compression is not enough, by itself, to allow for HCCI operation. It's a much more complex problem if you take into account other important factors like emissions (which, by the way, are a BIG part of the reason cars are so much more complex/advanced these days. Saving the environment is tricky business, who knew?)

Attempts to fix this have to contend with issues like low combustion temperature (excess CO) or high (excess NOx). The latest developments cite people partially stratifying the charge to bring things to the happy medium where you have good CO->CO2 conversion but stay short of NOx-emitting temperatures. This is kind of a tricky business, because if you don't do it correctly across the entire engine map then you are back to you either CO or NOx.

The article cited the supplier, Delphi (system called GDCI - gasoline direct-injection compression ignition), as saying that fuel economy improvement was 30% with less CO and less NOx than current diesel systems and targeting a 25MY SOP.

I'm not holding my breath. Working at a spark plug supplier, I'm a little torn on how much I want this system to succeed, but engineering/human-wise, it would be really interesting if it does pan out.

Good info. Thanks!

Humbug
Dec 3, 2006
Bogus
Diesels are great in big heavy cruisers coupled with automatic transmissions. Low relaxing revs, plenty torque and good milage. It just seems to be a polarizing engine type. Some proponents just looking at stats and thinking they are fun performance engines (they arn't), while some think they are rolling smogmachines with no place anywhere after the vw fiasco.

Humbug
Dec 3, 2006
Bogus

KillHour posted:

I'm so mad we don't get the wagon version of the Fusion/Mondeo ST.


I'm pretty sure a ST wagon doesn't exist anywhere. There is an "ST-line" appearance package for the Euro market wagon but the biggest engine you can have is a 180hp diesel. Only the US get the 2.7 ecoboost in the sport.

Humbug
Dec 3, 2006
Bogus

dissss posted:

There is a Focus ST wagon though (I know because I have a co worker that won't shut up about how they're totally going to import one from the UK)



The Focus and its class has a lot of cool sporty cars true. It just seems that the Euro budget/midrange manufacturers has completely given up on hot large sedans/wagons. You used to get the Mondeo ST, Vectra OPC, Passat R36 Peugeot 406 V6 and Mazdaspeed6. Only the Insignia OPC remains, and that is a fairly old car. All others top the range with 2.0 fours with usually around 200hp. Q-cars is the domain of premium Germans these days.

Humbug
Dec 3, 2006
Bogus

dissss posted:

You can get a Passat with the 206kw four (which I think is the Golf R engine) or that ridiculous TT diesel (as much as I dislike diesels that one is impressive).

Where can you get the 206Kw four? Looking at the UK configurator, you can only get Diesels in the Passat with the TT being the top spec, as well as the 218PS GTE. Even then, it would be down on the 300bhp R36 of a few years back


Wistful of Dollars posted:

Hell, there's a Golf R wagon.

Yeah, be "golf" class has a lot of cool hot wagons. The Seat Leon Cupra 280 ST is also pretty cool. The point was that the class above (Passats etc, i guess its called midsize in US terminology) seems to have lost a lot of the performance variants it used to have, at least in the European market.

Humbug
Dec 3, 2006
Bogus
Much like Peugeot(sorry kozmonaut), they don't really stand out in any way, and are mostly associated with fleet sales IMO. KIA/Hyundai has better warranties and has probably stolen a lot of potential Opel customers. VAG has more and possibly more modern driveline and engine options. Fords have been more fun to drive. The Japanese has their reputation for reliability. Its not like they are significantly cheaper than their midfield competition either. The Astra may be good, but its segment is extremely competitive

I guess a loss of customers have forced them to commit heavily to fleet sales, and people only experiencing them as rentals isn't helping their stodgy image, further leading them to unprofitable fleet sales.

Humbug
Dec 3, 2006
Bogus

davebo posted:

I've always thought it was really cool but I've never paid for sports channel packages on cable tv and have no clue when/where/if these things get televised here. It's the kind of thing I'd watch but wouldn't pay extra for, and what are the chances it'd ever get covered by the major networks?

A good thing about watching rally for free is that the insane fans from the 80's now have video cameras and youtube accounts

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PeNEyeEMWlk

Humbug
Dec 3, 2006
Bogus
TVR is back apparently. 480Hp Ford Coyote(?) V8 tuned by Cosworth. Carbon fibre and aluminium. 1200kg. Looks like manual only.
https://www.goodwood.com/grrc/event-coverage/goodwood-revival/2017/9/the-new-tvr-griffith--everything-you-need-to-know/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lk_-vnOoRMY

I expect them to fold in 2 years time.

Humbug
Dec 3, 2006
Bogus

kimbo305 posted:

Sizewise, are the 60s the new 70s?

Outside dimensions are pretty close yeah. I'm not sure the interior space will be much better than the old V60 though. The V90 doesn't feel any more spacious than the old V70 to me, despite being quite a bit larger. I think the designers explicitly stated they sacrificed space for looks as the people looking for space go for SUVs anyway

Humbug
Dec 3, 2006
Bogus
New BMW 3 series has been presented.



Fairly incremental changes. It has been announced that the bigger engines that will be available in the US won't have a manual option.

Humbug
Dec 3, 2006
Bogus
I'd still agree that most of the world would choose diesel. Nearly all land cruisers are diesel here in northern Europe. I believe the same is true for Russia and most of Africa. Not sure what south america and far east prefers. The middle east and north america are probably the biggest gas engine markets.

Humbug
Dec 3, 2006
Bogus

Frond posted:

Keep in mind your market was probably different. North Americans did not get the absolutely dire base model poo poo-rear end versions of the Baby Benz/3 series/Junior Audi.

I visited Macedonia a few years ago and their were basic versions of the e30/e36 running around and the equipment levels were an absolute joke.

Looking at the Norwegian configurator, the Mercedes A-Class comes standard with steel wheels with hubcaps. An alarm, illuminated sun visor mirrors and folding rear seats are all optional extras.

Humbug
Dec 3, 2006
Bogus
If fuel prices and interest rates stay a bit longer, I would bet you the Excursion is coming back.

Humbug
Dec 3, 2006
Bogus

Twerk from Home posted:

Wouldn't something like this get dramatically better fuel economy and likely be lighter than a body on frame pickup? This seems like it'd be a better "lifestyle truck" than what we can get in the US.

I got curious and looked it up. It has a 91hp 1,4 litre NA I4 based on the engine in the 1988-1992 Vauxhall Cavalier. The Chevy Agila it is based on scored a big fat zero in the Latin NCAP crash test. It's a turd.
[Edit] The best mpg numbers i can find suggest 20-25 mpg. That might be on ethanol though.

Humbug fucked around with this message at 16:04 on Jul 5, 2019

Humbug
Dec 3, 2006
Bogus

big crush on Chad OMG posted:

Ahead of its time really. If Range Rover made one today? Print that money.

They have made the Evoque convertible since 2016 though? I guess we're both lucky to have never seen one in the flesh.

Humbug
Dec 3, 2006
Bogus

I like how I honestly cant tell which model that is. Could be a X1 or could be a X5. With nothing for scale they are so samey

Humbug
Dec 3, 2006
Bogus
Considering Opel/Vauxhall was bought by PSA, that covers all the manufacturers I most associate with rental cars in Europe. At least they can reduce competition between each others for fleet sales.

Humbug
Dec 3, 2006
Bogus
GM has axed its Holden brand, and is pulling out of its remaining RHD markets Australia NZ and Thailand. I thought they might soldier on longer considering the popularity of utes and SUVs over there, but apparently not.
https://www.bbc.com/news/business-51499775
GM has now left Europe, India, Oceania and large parts of SEA in the last few years. Surly putting all your eggs in two pretty volatile but currently profitable baskets (US and China) can't backfire.

Humbug
Dec 3, 2006
Bogus

ilkhan posted:

i3 is, right? Or am I imagining that?

Parts of it is, although its the short strand cheaper stuff. The rest is aluminium. I think BMW has stated that they won't be doing it again for the i3s replacement.

Edit: Found it https://www.bmwblog.com/2018/07/17/carbon-fiber-bmw-might-be-a-thing-of-the-past/

Humbug fucked around with this message at 21:45 on Feb 19, 2020

Humbug
Dec 3, 2006
Bogus

Considering GM performs worse than the general market in China, that looks pretty dire. I dont know how long the coronavirus will disrupt the markets, but its not unfeasible that it could thin the heard of especially foreign automakers operating in China. Chinese auto sales were slowing even before the virus scare.
https://www.autonews.com/china/gm-loses-share-january-sales-fall-40

I dont quite get GMs priorization of South Korea and China. Both markets have strong domestic automakers that are quickly improving. The Chinese government will support the domestic brands (i know GM is in a joint venture, but still), and i don't know why someone in Korea would choose to buy a Chevy over a Hyundai or Kia. They are big markets to be sure, but the fall could be even greater.

Humbug
Dec 3, 2006
Bogus

Godzilla07 posted:

For the E-Class's mid-cycle refresh in the US, Mercedes has decided to replace the E-Class wagon with the E-Class All-Terrain. This now aligns the E-Class wagon with the Audi and Volvo. I think this also means that every new wagon in the U.S. except for the V90 (only available via special order) and E63 AMG, mimics the Subaru Outback.



The new mild-hybrid straight-6 replaces the V6TT across the range. In E450 form this engine is "detuned" compared to the E53, much like the M2 Comp is "detuned" compared to the M3.

Makes sense though. The Outback alone represents 84% of all wagons sold in the US in 2019. No wonder others emulate that. The conventional wagon is pretty much dead in the US, no matter what enthusiast forums may want.

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a31069594/station-wagons-disguised-suvs/

I wonder what the future of the wagon in general is. Northern Europe is pretty much the only place wagons are sold in any significant number, and SUVs are taking massive chunks of the market there as well.

Humbug
Dec 3, 2006
Bogus

Olympic Mathlete posted:

poo poo, Koeniggsegg on it again...


Holy poo poo. I din't realize it had the freevalve head in it. The first car with fully independently actuated valves and it doesn't even make the blurb over all the other craziness.

"It can run on 2-stroke cycle in certain rev ranges"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E5VN-MI1mZA

Humbug
Dec 3, 2006
Bogus
I think one of the things keeping people from using trucks as family transport in Europe is that any vehicle with a GVWR over 3500kg (7700 lbs) is by definition a commercial vehicle. They require truck licenses and cannot legally exceed 50 mph. Not sure it its the same for all of Europe though. I sometimes see half-tones like Raptors, but never any heavier pick ups than that.

Humbug
Dec 3, 2006
Bogus
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AwStZpTvr5E

Portal axle Mercedes EQC that is apparently a preview for an BEV G-wagen.

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Humbug
Dec 3, 2006
Bogus
It does looks a lot like a fat i3 or X1. Its the Skoda Enyaq for anyone wondering. Their version of the ID.4. I don't hate it to be fair. It looks like it drops some of VWs haptic touch pad bullshit for actual buttons.

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