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harperdc
Jul 24, 2007

Hadlock posted:

Japanese government keeps throwing millions at hydrogen since like 2017 to promote research. Another $600 million this year ( ¥100 billion) $100 billion (¥15 trillion). Might as well build something fun with all that government money

I've read speculation that they're pushing hydrogen because as an island nation they're heavily dependent on imports, and you can make pretty much unlimited hydrogen from just nuclear and sea water, whereas oil and lithium have to be imported

Everything I’ve heard has mentioned importing hydrogen as LH2 by ship from Australia or the Middle East, nothing to do with domestic production or nuclear. I’d love to be wrong but it feels like “okay what can we do that allows the energy companies the softest landing” seems to be at play.

There’s a lot wrong with Japanese EV policy, but that’s for another time and thread. If anyone has requests I’m going to Tokyo Motor Show Japan Mobility Show next week for work research :ssh: so throw any photo/impressions requests my way.

[Edit] vvvvv Public days run through November 5

harperdc fucked around with this message at 12:23 on Oct 28, 2023

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harperdc
Jul 24, 2007

Russian Bear posted:

But does the FXX program include a pit wall to sabotage you through pit stop strategy and someone telling you “we are checking” on the radio.

This is the sports car side of the Ferrari group, the one that’s actually halfway competent.

harperdc
Jul 24, 2007

This Ars Technica article on Toyota’s EV concept with a fake manual transmission is pretty fun to read, I’m not surprised somebody has the idea and got it to work…gives me hope we can have this in 10-15 years with the future BEV Miatas that are inevitable.

quote:

From a hardware perspective, [Toyota engineer Isami’s] solution is extremely basic. That joystick, which looks and feels from a materials standpoint like the shifter on a GR Yaris or GR Corolla, is attached to a spring-loaded plastic mechanism with six contact points. As you move the shifter through its traditional H-pattern layout, one of the six contacts is engaged, signaling to the car which "gear" you've selected. If no switch is engaged, then by process of elimination, you must be in neutral.

The other piece of custom hardware is the clutch pedal, which uses a multi-part linkage and two springs with differing rates to replicate the feel of a clutch. The clutch's position is then read by a potentiometer of the sort you'll find on the cheapest of videogame racing wheels.

There is no feedback mechanism on either pedal or shifter, no high-end load cells or the like that you might find in a high-end sim racing pedal setup. It's extremely basic, almost disappointingly so. It would be, at least, if the results weren't so compelling.

harperdc
Jul 24, 2007

bull3964 posted:

I mean, it's a prototype. The real aim here was to do the control software to simulate stalling and dropping the clutch and the acceleration in gears. I would assume the next step would be to add force feedback into the shifter and clutch pedal.

I'm torn on it. It's neat and I would probably find it fun, but it’s treading a fine line between doing something harmless for engagement vs the car interfering with normal operation for no gain which feels like a safety issue.

Yeah, this was my takeaway/reason for sharing. It would be a fun way to bring a little Slow Car Fast-level fun to an EV. I think of it in the same way as having an AT car where I drop it into sport/manual mode and go back and forth punching gears just to make myself giggle a bit. Unnecessary, but not unpleasant.

And yeah my understanding is electric motors in many cases just don’t need a gearbox the same way to meet drivability targets, and it also provides complexity that you’d ideally avoid.

Went through Japan Mobility Show today, and maybe this was an outlier, but the Mazda booth and its concept car, Honda with the Prelude, and Nissan with the GT-R-ish concept. Those spots were absolutely packed. The Sony spot was also pretty crowded.

harperdc
Jul 24, 2007

dissss posted:

They sell the Crossover in Japan too, and also a smaller 'Sport' Crossover.

The new Sedan version is a different vehicle entirely, longitudinal engine whereas the other are transverse and a longer wheelbase.

Hadlock posted:

I think these are unique models, that's how they're presented in the press brief



https://global.toyota/en/newsroom/toyota/37540641.html

Yep - the Crown family has multiple vehicles in Japan. The crossover one looks dumb, but I also wield a strong, burning hatred for the lifted BMW/Mercedes “coupes” of the same genre. I’ve seen them in person, the details on that (and the new Prius) are nice but I just don’t like the whole of it.

The taxis were based on an older version, the Crown lineage continued forever. They updated that from the four-door sedan to the Toyota JPN Taxi which are quite nice and much more purpose-built for the job.

harperdc
Jul 24, 2007


The Japanese there is appreciably “y’all see where they made the cut for the trunk lol”

harperdc
Jul 24, 2007

BuckyDoneGun posted:

I'm willing to believe that of course it's a prototype under test without finished software, but gently caress, these things are supposed to be in customer hands the end of the month right?

In a normal company, you’d expect any prototypes running so close to start of sales to be the first vehicles off from test runs of production everything - because homologation also needs vehicles, and you need your press fleet, customer trial vehicles, etc.

So unless they’re doing a Very Tesla Thing and still working on how they’d improve off-road parameters via a firmware update, that should be what customers see. But even then, this shouldn’t be the first time off-road either because you need to run tests for vehicle life much earlier on and you would guess that’s something they would have included in test lists for earlier samples.

Plus, even with EV motors for off-road, I doubt you can fix everything just with software - has to be in the suspension and chassis design as well.

harperdc
Jul 24, 2007

I’m still convinced the King Ranch/fancy pickup truck stuff is because what general Americans want is a big leather couch with a lazy V8, and the OEMs can’t make land barge coupes or sedans anymore due to the crash/fuel efficiency rules. Pickups and SUVs having a loophole from the U.S. government is just allowing that.

harperdc
Jul 24, 2007

fknlo posted:

Don’t forget that 500+ miles actually means 320 miles.

500+ on the CLTC measuring method (IYKYK)

harperdc
Jul 24, 2007

wesleywillis posted:

I'm sure they wouldn't fly here, but I remember like 20 years ago Mazda was selling new BF chassis 323s and other "old" Mazda body style cars in some countries in Africa.
Did any other company do that?

Literally everyone. Pakistan seems to be another place those older models go to, along with Africa.

harperdc
Jul 24, 2007

wesleywillis posted:

Except for in winter, when its -30 out?
Or summer when its + 30 celsius? Assuming the AC works I guess.
Or raining really hard.
Snowing.
Dusty.
Windy as gently caress.
Hailing, well I guess if you got a helmet, it doesn't matter if your hands get hosed up.
Freezing rain

Rain sucks, snow can stop trains, but even commuting by train and bus in the Tokyo area is much nicer than doing so by car. Not just because it’s like driving in NYC, but because the time you’re commuting doesn’t have to be focused on the road.

Having a car is nice, but commuting by car? It’d be tough to go back, honestly.

bull3964 posted:

One of my high school friends lives 250 miles from me in what could be a high speed rail corridor. If I want to visit, that's 4 hours of driving. Rail could get me there in 2.5 hours and I could read or play games the whole trip and not worry about being too tired to drive, weather conditions, or any other list of things that can pop up on a trip like that.

And you stop off in the middle of the city (or maybe a station closer to where you want to go) instead of Way The gently caress Out At The Airport. No security theater apparatus (or at least much less), too.

harperdc fucked around with this message at 03:47 on Dec 14, 2023

harperdc
Jul 24, 2007

Kraftwerk posted:

I have a friend who just had 1 kid. Not planning on anymore and for *reasons* they bought a Palisade.

I’m probably dumb enough to try and get two car seats into something the size of a VW Golf eventually, we already get one in there and it’s fine. we’ll see how long that experiment lasts before I upgrade to a wagon.

harperdc
Jul 24, 2007

Full Collapse posted:

I have a crush on the Prius C, but I don’t dare to look at prices.

I wouldn’t. I’ve driven them a few times (Japan market Aqua), they always feel mushy and soft compared to a Fit or Demio/Mazda2. And those aren’t exactly race cars.

harperdc
Jul 24, 2007

News: Daihatsu has to stop all vehicle shipments in Japan and export markets thanks to improper crash test standards.

quote:

A third-party panel it has set up identified 174 new counts of misconduct across 25 vehicle test items in addition to those already discovered, with the oldest one dating back to 1989, Daihatsu said, adding that it reported the findings to the transport ministry.

The number of vehicles affected by improper testing expanded to 64 models, including all 11 models the automaker currently sells in Japan, such as the Rocky compact sport utility vehicle and the Copen minivehicle.

Among the affected vehicles sold overseas are the Xenia in Indonesia and the Axia in Malaysia, which are sold under the Perodua brand. The 64 models also include those supplied to Toyota, Mazda Motor Corp. and Subaru Corp. for sale under their brands, as well as those whose production has already ended, it said.

Daihatsu also said some of the models may not meet safety standards as their doors could become hard to open from the outside in the event of an accident. There has been no report of accidents resulting from the safety test irregularities, it added.

Views: This follows after Toyota’s truck maker Hino has had to stop selling some models after emissions data falsification was found and announced in 2022. Yikes.

harperdc
Jul 24, 2007

Guinness posted:

I feel like auto makers are kind of shooting themselves in the foot with their whole approach to EVs where they must all be Tesla-alikes with way too much software and “different because the future” decisions that throw out perfectly good and well-proven designs.

Infotainment is just one part of the issue.

I don’t think any automaker is using a ‘centralized computer’ solution to E/E architecture; I know it’s being investigated, but right now there’s a ton of discrete CPUs serving different purposes.

The explosion in CPUs isn’t because of infotainment, it’s because of active safety. All those radars and sensors? They all have to feed in info somewhere. I’m not in E/E so I’m not aware of everything, but it’s making everything complex.

You can have a 1980s-rear end car that might have an improved engine and almost nothing, but you’re gonna have to buy it new from a developing country and it’s not going to have any safety features to meet current standards in the U.S. and especially Europe.

harperdc
Jul 24, 2007

1. It really looks like a rebadged Daihatsu Mira, which was both to kei specs and also had that larger 3-cylinder in Japan.

2. I, uh, wonder if that is also subject to the safety test issues Daihatsu is now finding themselves in :v:

harperdc
Jul 24, 2007

dissss posted:

The very basic ones don't even have front airbags let alone side ones which is where the current scandal started.

The earliest affected cars go back to 1989, my guess is they were telling lots of white lies on crash safety homologation, supposedly when it comes to doors/side impact, so I’m guessing that’s chassis metal and not just airbags.

harperdc
Jul 24, 2007

The family hatch has iDrive 5 in it, which feels like the ideal - tactile controls and not a touchscreen, navigation is good (and map data was updated when I took it in in September) and in both the main screen as well as small inset between speedo and tachometer, easy to put a couple programmed routes in, and doesn’t do too much (like climate controls). Also has some nice touches a non-OEM option would miss, like a list of toll charges.

harperdc
Jul 24, 2007

SlowBloke posted:

Audi decided to make a special edition of the q8 e-tron, that commemorates the dakar race where they got their teeth kicked in?



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gn71ORrj1CE

When your marketing plan for using Dakar includes a special edition, and you’re hellbent on executing the marketing plan…

harperdc
Jul 24, 2007

Sab669 posted:

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a46317501/2025-vw-golf-gti-prototype-revealed/

I think one of my biggest "turn offs" with voice tech in cars is you have to use very specific key phrases, so maybe GPT will allow for more natural speech to control things?



Do not want

harperdc
Jul 24, 2007

Disgruntled Bovine posted:

I was curious so I updated this image with a locomotive to be sure. If your pickup truck has worse forward visibility than a locomotive you have a problem.



I…think some of those American pickups might not pass EU Direct Vision laws in a year or so.

Not that that matters in the U.S., but good god

harperdc
Jul 24, 2007

redgubbinz posted:

where does kei van fit in the rankings?

In the bin, where they belong.

harperdc
Jul 24, 2007

KillHour posted:

My wife, who has never been interested in cars at all, saw a kei van on a YouTube video and loudly declared she needed one immediately.

Unless you’re working for a package delivery company or a city office, you don’t need a kei vans. They’re small-scale commercial vehicles and appropriately rough and simple. The proper hatchbacks are much nicer as passenger cars, though they’re also not the greatest to drive.

harperdc
Jul 24, 2007

McTinkerson posted:

Only thing better than minivans are full size vans.
You can now get the full size E series Transit sitting on top of a Ford Lightning chassis (in RWD trim).
:getin:

Full-size passenger vans carry their own stereotypes, though I did not know they’re also building on the Lightning chassis now. Hmm.

The Japanese branch of luxury vans is truly the way.

harperdc
Jul 24, 2007

His Divine Shadow posted:

We've toted our two kids around in a yaris and a mazda 6 for the last 10 years, even went on a car trip on the mazda last year. We even got a twin baby carriage into the yaris trunk. though any shopping bags needed to go in the rear leg room which was not an issue since the kids sat in baby chairs then. For such a small car it can swallow loads.

Overnight carry-on sized suitcase and decent sized stroller fit in the F20 1-series we have, which is roughly Yaris/Golf sized. It can be tight, but for where I am, we don’t need to buy something enormous because we don’t drive daily and taxes/other costs mean having something bigger gets expensive quick.

harperdc
Jul 24, 2007

Cached Money posted:

I'm sure you can still make a car that feels like an old Caprice or Roadmaster if you really wanted. But that would cost more money to develop rather than making oversized trucks and pretending they are "commercial vehicles" to evade emission and safety regulations.

Yeah that’s my point - emissions, fuel economy and auto safety laws have eradicated the land yacht, so obviously there’s a taste for trucks and SUVs, but they’re also slotting in where Detroit no longer can sell big soft V8 sedans or wagons.

harperdc
Jul 24, 2007

dissss posted:

It's a shittier Corolla

Have driven the old one, can confirm.

harperdc
Jul 24, 2007


You rang?

harperdc
Jul 24, 2007

moist turtleneck posted:

He's not unhealthy he's just English

One of the truer things from the comic strip Achewood was every British celebrity looking like a junior high school teacher. Clarkson absolutely fits this mold.

harperdc
Jul 24, 2007

Applebees Appetizer posted:

Was checking out the new Mustang the other day and holy crap did Ford completely gently caress up the dashboard with the two giant iPads right next to each other, that is the dumbest, ugliest poo poo I have ever seen in a pony car what the hell are these people at Ford thinking? It completely ruins the car

it's a bad trend, OP, and I'm against it as well

harperdc
Jul 24, 2007

DoesNotCompute posted:

It's wild that manufacturers are still releasing new designs with this when feedback has been so universally negative.

Blackhawk posted:

My only hope is that design and production timelines for new cars are so long now that all these lovely tablet + no door handle + no physical control + haptic touch button on the steering wheel + interior mood lighting + no air vent designs have been in the pipeline for a lot longer than people have been making GBS threads on them for and the next generation in a few years will have corrected course.

Yeah, “feedback” to “final production” is measured in years. I’m sure they’re locked in for a few years for parts supply too unless somebody really yanks the emergency brake and switches things mid-project.

harperdc
Jul 24, 2007

Olympic Mathlete posted:

If feedback to final production is measured in years maybe you need to do more testing internally and not have an environment of fear that prevents your staff from openly and honestly contributing when they think an idea is pure garbage and actively worse. Surely not everyone in the company has drank the kool aid and is all in on making cars worse.

That’s not the problem. I don’t know every OEM’s project management, but usually you go concept phase -> specification lock -> testing, design update, more testing -> and then prep for homologation and production. (Some things are in parallel, this is extremely high level, etc).

But the point is the decision to go all touchscreen mad is made in the early phase, and the design of those components has to be done before testing. And I’m sure changing your dashboard design and part design would take time.

That’s what I meant - that decisions are locked a few years ahead of time before a car is unveiled, and would be a big scope change the kind which would…take years to develop new parts for once feedback is bad :v: a dashboard may not take forever (I doubt you need as rigorous a testing regimen as you do for powertrain) but tooling would definitely take time.

harperdc
Jul 24, 2007

Yeah, I have a BMW with an iDrive 5.0 setup, and I don’t mind having that screen be 100% button and dial based because it’s much easier to do by touch while driving. I’ve used touchscreen setups in recent cars as well and I’m less happy. Plus the era/generation I have still has physical buttons for climate and most everything, plus a pair of actual dials for speedo/tach (with a LCD in between).

Having used a similar version in the U.S. before when visiting family, I was also really happy with how well BMW localized it for Japan, but that’s a different matter.

harperdc
Jul 24, 2007

Blackhawk posted:

Nice small hatchback, too bad it was stung by 300 bees and has hideously swollen up.

Spicy flies got to it

harperdc
Jul 24, 2007

GoutPatrol posted:

Agreed, the hybrid is a good seller here.

Yeah the new-gen Fits are nice and I think selling well in Japan, they’ll figure out a full BEV version of that if only for the domestic market and a couple other places.

Also, not dragging around 80 kWh in every single city car is A Good Thing.

harperdc
Jul 24, 2007

It’s basically made for Thailand, so it’s going to have minimal safety design and probably zero active safety features. That part’s whatever. Passive safety (eg crumple zones) are also probably not great, but the engines are actually fairly up to date (and used in other vans/trucks in advanced markets) so might pass smog.

Toyota made a new truck to match the requirements of older commercial pickup trucks but with smarter design and modern engines. Can see the appeal, but I wouldn’t want to get in an accident in one anymore than I would a 1980s 4Runner.

harperdc
Jul 24, 2007

KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:

Japan is pretty hilly and snowy so it makes sense to offer some little Haldex systems on various JDM cars.

Yep. See also the Mazda Demio/2 for a AWD hatchback.

mobby_6kl posted:

It's also a number we made up, but let's say it's about right. Why can BYD put all that stuff it in a $12k shitbox instead of hiding everything in the screen, but on a $40k Volvo it's just not possible?

Tolerances/design life of the part, and using Chinese parts suppliers. But I’m also guessing BYD in particular is cutting prices and margins to the bone to gain market share overseas.

The other side: it might not be actually cheaper to put it all on a touch screen! Something has to run that screen, and most cars are still running on individual ECUs instead of a centralized processor ala a computer. Think old video game consoles versus modern ones that are essentially X86 boxes.

harperdc
Jul 24, 2007

mobby_6kl posted:

It doesn't really matter either way because the road wear increases with the 4th power of weight per axle. So even porky passenger vehicles do nothing but busses and heavy trucks gently caress poo poo up real quick.

Random chart from GIS:



If that's accurate, the "big rigs" isn't even close and probably just a truck driving without a trailer -- that works out to 8t metric, which is a GVW range that doesn't require CDL in most of the U.S. to my knowledge.


mobby_6kl posted:

There was another hit on google of a recent paper, I don't have time to read the whole thing but there was this chart:



https://www.pure.ed.ac.uk/ws/portalfiles/portal/313811988/Read_wear_EV_CTEP_Publishers_Copy.pdf


meanwhile actual semi-trailer/U.S. Class 8 trucks fully loaded are that up to 44t metric GVW range, CDL is (I believe) 11t metric GVW and up.

harperdc
Jul 24, 2007

KakerMix posted:



Seems positively reasonably sized?

New Top Gear set looks a bit sad

WTFBEES posted:

Wanna lower the poo poo out of an R3

:haibrow:

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harperdc
Jul 24, 2007

BuckyDoneGun posted:



I can't unsee the Toyota Probox


Yeah my brain went immediately to “current genetic Toyota.”

TheBacon posted:

Do Alpina wheels count? Because they get my vote but lol.

Alpina’s classic design remains classic, but nah, not for this discussion.

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