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Wankie
Sep 11, 2002

Look Glenn we're saved!

Sir Tonk posted:

If they offered a removable bench seat in the back I'd consider one for band touring. Looks less cumbersome to drive than a full-size van.

Actually that's the standard configuration on all transit connects, its called the Wagon model.

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Wankie
Sep 11, 2002

Look Glenn we're saved!

dissss posted:

Here its close enough to the Fit that many would rather choose that because its basically turns into a small van, and for now the auto Fiesta is crippled with a four speed auto and comparatively crappy 1.4 (meaning fuel economy is the same as an auto Fit).

The North American Fiesta only comes with the excellent 1.6l Ti-VCT engine and either a 6 manual or a 6 speed dry clutch DSG, its VASTLY superior to Fit 1.5l with an old school 5 speed slushbox. Also the US Fiesta has SYNC which currently isn't available on overseas models, has far better fuel economy and a much lower price with more standard equipment thanks to lower costs being built in Mexico vs Japan.

Wankie
Sep 11, 2002

Look Glenn we're saved!

kimbo305 posted:

^^^ one thing that bugs me a little is that the NA Fiesta is 200lbs heavier than
the Euro one, somehow. How?!

Air conditioning unit, longer and heavier bumpers for US Crash standards, bigger standard engine 1.6l vs 1.25l and bigger standard wheels 15" vs 14".

Wankie
Sep 11, 2002

Look Glenn we're saved!

Blacknose posted:

Pretty sure A/C is standard in every non shitbox car in Europe. The rest probably explains it though.
No, the Fiesta Studio doesn't have AC.

Wankie
Sep 11, 2002

Look Glenn we're saved!

Cream_Filling posted:

Quick, how do you turn the engine off and then switch to accessory power? I bet it's a different sequence for your car than on another maker's car. It's a minor, trivial annoyance but an annoyance nonetheless.

In regards to the separate issue of keyless entry systems, I would rather have the money it takes to have a secure keyless entry system and smart key fobs spent on something else since I don't see a real problem with mechanical keys on commuter cars.

Its the same for all cars.

Step 1 Hit button once to turn off car.
Step 2 Hit Button once to turn on Accessory mode.
Step 3 Doesn't exist

To start the car you push down on the brake and hold the button for a second. Doesn't matter what the make Ford, VW, GM, BMW, Chrysler, Mercedes, Toyota, Nissan, Fiat, JagLR, whatever.

Physical keys are actually LESS reliable. Step one a complex series of tumblers, springs and pins slide up and down inside the key cylinder. Two a wireless signal is sent to the keys transponder to send cryptographic ID codes. Three turn the tumbler which slowly wears out the wires through the friction of the turning cylinder. Four a mechanical position sensor detects the tumblers position and starts the car.

Keyless? Step 1 Push a capacitive-based push button , Two the car asks for the key to send valid cryptography keys for the car. That's it.

Hilariously, keyless start is actually CHEAPER to implement then key based, but for marketing reasons they charge more for it.

Wankie
Sep 11, 2002

Look Glenn we're saved!

kimbo305 posted:

You have to steal the physical key, instead of snooping the keyless entry code out of the air, as has already been demonstrated.

You still have to steal the keyless entry fob. Its called public key cryptography. The car sends a message seeded with random number using a public key that ONLY fob can decrypt based on extremely large prime numbers. The fob using it's private key decrypts it sends back the correct answer. Sniffing keys wirelessly doesn't do poo poo, the codes needed change every single time the car asks for authentication.

Wankie
Sep 11, 2002

Look Glenn we're saved!

kimbo305 posted:

You only have to be near it and repeat its signal over to the guy waiting by the car. Which is far easier than pickpocketing.
http://www.technologyreview.com/computing/27037/page1/

You need to read more carefully:

quote:

The researchers tested a few scenarios. An attacker could watch a parking lot and have an accomplice watch as car owners as entered a nearby store. The accomplice would only need to be within eight meters of the targeted owner's key fob, making it easy to avoid arousing suspicion. In another scenario, a car owner might leave a car key on a table near a window. An antenna placed outside the house was able to communicate with the key, allowing the researchers then to start the car parked out front and drive away.

A car won't open or start if the signal from its key takes too long to arrive, so the researchers devised a way to speed communication between their antennas. Most relay attacks require the signals to be converted from analog to digital and back, which takes time. The researchers were able to keep the signals in analog format, which reduced their delay from microseconds to nanoseconds and made their attack more difficult to detect.

This "attack" is retarded. Their connecting by CABLE two wireless receivers one held by someone near the person with key fob and other inside the car in question. If you see a person with a long rear end cable standing next to your car with their hand on the door sensor with a cable connected to another person with an antenna trying to get very close to your pockets/purse be very weary.

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Wankie
Sep 11, 2002

Look Glenn we're saved!

kimbo305 posted:

Do you really think that'd be the end of it? Also from the article:
"Francillon says that the materials ... for the wireless attack cost between $100 and $1,000, depending on the electronic components used."
Obviously the cable version was the fastest thing they could rig up to prove it could work.

Note the word "microseconds" capturing the wireless key fob signal, transferring it via wireless then using a transmitter to rebroadcast the signal was too slow (the system expects the correct response instantly) Literally, the attack by the laws of physics can NEVER work wirelessly, its too slow. They get around this keeping the signal analog and using a cable to transfer signal. Not to mention most cars keep checking the that key is in range by sending NEW signals which the attackers CAN'T fake. All you need is a small firmware upgrade to shorten the time window even further, or put the car theft mode if a correct signal is not received every minute.

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