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^^^ actually people will probably be astonished that your reverse grognardism has diminished even briefly. quick, say "death to 3.5" or people will get the wrong idea ^^^moths posted:I didn't realize we could opt out of having paizo resources diverted into this effort waste. this is an amazingly terrible argument. paizo resources are going into making a neat product that some people will use and find interesting, which will help ensure that their core product is being used and enjoyed, which will drive more sales of the various books. a good number of my friends use iGadgets and they would loving love a program like this I suppose that doesn't really matter though because they're using resources on something you won't use which automatically means their efforts are a giant waste I guess?
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Feb 26, 2010 04:24
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Gerund posted:But the flip side is that having an iPhone do all the squiggly math inherent in the "2000 spell buff" 3.5 base system is going to further invest the developers into doing nothing to make the game easier for people who don't have a spiffy gadget to do all the work for them. this would be a pretty sensible argument if "make the game easier for people who don't like keeping track of all this crazy 3.x poo poo that's going on" didn't directly translate to "make the game far more streamlined and newbie-friendly" and at that point paizo would basically be trying to rewrite 4e so... honestly I don't get your argument here; what is all this model train nonsense. it's a math-heavy tabletop roleplaying game, I don't really think any hip teenagers are going to say, "oh man, I so wanted to roll up a totally pimp barbarian and cleave some orcs but I don't have an iphone and math is hard"
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Feb 26, 2010 05:27
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how in the hell is developing an iPhone app "fully committing" to anything. it's an iPhone app, a neat little gadget for people who have iPhones. it's not like they're writing a massive hardcover rulebook which communicates solely through decade-old pop culture references
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Feb 26, 2010 05:54
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Gerund posted:^^^ Are you really going to pick at semantics and rhetoric here? They're all but admitting that their game doesn't run well unless you have a smartphone to do the piles of math and are releasing a crutch to mitigate that. uh no they're releasing a handy little tool to speed things up and make things more convenient for those who are so inclined. you know kind of like the character builder or the monster builder or the dm's screen or whatever. also semantics and rhetoric, what, if you make an argument expect to have it addressed Gerund posted:Selfishly, I'd rather they work on a start-up game that is as easy to understand and play as one of those basic boxes back in the 70s. Okay, that's a lie, I'd rather they spend the time making a system that worked, but c'est la vie. so basically you're angry about them producing things to support a game they already have instead of writing an entirely new game that appeals better to you" just go play another game system or something jesus god there are plenty of systems that are way easy to pick up Gerund posted:So then I'm angry that grognards exist and have a company pandering to them, and that they (the Grognard demographic) will never, ever try to grow the hobby by making a good game like Green Ronin or Crafty Games. the hobby is hella grown already man, there are tons of floundering systems out there written by people who were upset that "the grognard demographic was not growing the hobby" or some other incomprehensible motive. if you want the hobby to grow then go buy some other systems instead of bitching about a company's entirely sensible decisions in an internet thread vvv maybe we should have a pathfinder thread with "NO PAIZO DISCUSSION JERKS" in the op and a paizo thread with "NO PATHFINDER DISCUSSION JERKS" in the op. then everyone would know exactly what they were arguing about and stay on topic. this is a seriouspost by the way vvv Angry Diplomat fucked around with this message at 06:20 on Feb 26, 2010 |
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Feb 26, 2010 06:14
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Gerund posted:But that's my point- it isn't really sensible. DDI tools and such are great because they are ways to make the away-from-table dithering. A company spending resources developing an app for an iphone to solve something that shouldn't even exist is depressing at best. Collectively, I'd rather the RPG hobby companies continue to try as a whole to grow the market than work on projects that aren't related to anything but serving the 25+ clannish mentality. what do you mean "shouldn't even exist." the system exists in its present state precisely because there is a strong core of players who prefer the system to work in exactly that way. this is a game marketed specifically to a particular subgroup of gamers, and some of those gamers will enjoy this app and will use it. this means that it is entirely reasonable and in fact highly recommended for paizo to create it, because they can parlay it into corporate gain also please define "growing the market" and explain to me how a company is to do this productively by abandoning its flagship line and refusing to pursue little side projects related to it, thanks
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Feb 26, 2010 06:58
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Gerund posted:The Pathfinder system is a mess. I think if we're going to like hyperbole like Death to 3.5 then I think we're in agreement. yes, I dislike the pathfinder system. also I'm not the death to 3.5 guy that's mikan. Gerund posted:Saying that even a major chunk of the Pathfinder customer base is playing it because they love the system is ludicrous to me. Say they don't want to convert to 4E or that they have all these books to use, sure, but the system itself is a Jenga tower of ill-suited rules. there are tons of people still playing 3.5 because they love the system. there are tons of people playing pathfinder because they love the system. repeat for every other edition. a lot of grognards cried at wotc because they wanted 4e to be exactly like 3.5 but with minor updates, so paizo saw that and went, "oh hey we can capitalize on this" and made exactly that. people play it because it is exactly the game they want to play. why the hell would anyone play a game whose system they hate that makes no sense you make no sense Gerund posted:Now, is this app going to drive a profit? I imagine, but ultimately it will be a pyrrhic thing- selling to the already easily-advertised app-crazy gadget loving wonks and not piercing into a wider "gamer" market. Part of this is because Pathfinder is a lovely system that needs a smart-phone to play reasonably* and that cost becomes an additional barrier to entry for the under-25 set (as you've heard me say before without trying to argue with it). Are groups really going to be any more inviting when it turns out that to join up you should get a smartphone and maybe your own 500 page handbook? "reasonably" is a subjective term. some groups love doing lots of math and rule-lawyering through tons of crunch. I have played with some of these and while I found it boring and terrible they seemed happy to spend thirty minutes debating the effect of a single spell. these are the people playing 3.x/pathfinder. also the "you should have your own phb" thing has been around forever and people have been ignoring it forever by just sharing around one copy or having one guy be the designated rule lawyer Gerund posted:And so when I say "growing the market", I mean working on products that are not restrictive and short-sighted like an iPhone app: such as a starter-box as I said before. Still related, and far more useful to a larger public than "hey check this new feature for my iPhone." also likely to take up more resources in general and possibly have a much lower profit margin. companies exist to make money, this will make money, and it's not going to cause some kind of weird cultural shift where people inexplicably think that a smartphone is an essential component of an rpg session. seriously how can you possibly equate "a product I am not likely to use" with "a product which somehow restricts and damages the hobby" god drat it's not like they're putting crazy digital locks on the books that can only be opened using an iPhone
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Feb 27, 2010 15:55
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mixitwithblop posted:I'm not saying that the GSL is unreasonable, especially in the context of copyright issues in the pre WoTC days... But leaving the OGL for the GSL is like getting married to that hot chick that already used to give up the goods everyday. It's all cool at first cause man, YOU BAGGED HER YEAH, but then she's all "you can never look at porn again" and one day, it's "Oh, by the way, no more blowjobs, ever." sorry I don't seem to understand this analogy. please use one that makes the remotest bit of sense, thanks in advance e: seriously though what the gently caress does this mean
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Mar 1, 2010 23:58
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mixitwithblop posted:Sorry, I assumed we were all manly non virgin nerds here. My bad. So how about them kenders, ha-ha. maybe I'm retarded but I still don't understand what you're talking about, I mean are you suggesting that it is you, the person saying "heh women turn into harpies and won't give you head anymore when you're married" who is the manly non virgin nerd? perhaps you should explain this concept in more detail, making sure to liberally use unrelated metaphors as a way of explaining the difference between the ogl/gsl coming into tgd to see your posting is like when you go to a big olympic game with some guys you know and you're all "hell yeah!" because they seem pretty cool and you're looking forward to catching a really good game but then one of the guys that shows up is this guy that won't stop "ironically" trash-talking the cynical corporatization of the previously healthy spirit of competition that made up the olympics and whenever you try to engage him in sane conversation he just goes "heh" and you get mad but you don't want to make a scene and the other guys are all kind of glancing around uncomfortably because nobody is quite sure who invited him or even whether anyone knows him at all but he just will. not. shut. up. Angry Diplomat fucked around with this message at 06:34 on Mar 2, 2010 |
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Mar 2, 2010 06:30
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Swags posted:The argument people typically make for this is that 'wizards only lose if fighters specifically prepare for them.' On that same note, though, wizards only win if they've prepared their poo poo correctly, and if the other guy isn't smart enough (after 20 levels, which is what these fights always come down to: 20TH LEVEL DIVINER!!). the argument is that an equal amount of preparation, cleverness, and resources available to both classes will always result in the wizard winning no matter what unless he is in some terrible stupid gimmick situation like being sent to the elemental plane of beholders or some poo poo. the way to challenge a fighter is to throw a monster at him. the way to challenge a wizard is to rearrange everything to stack the deck against him, and even then he can just cast mordenkainen's shuffling on the deck mixitwithblop posted:non magical flying mount oh man that mount better have freakin' balling will and fortitude saves because otherwise that wizard is going to laugh and laugh at all the falling damage the fighter is about to take
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Mar 22, 2010 16:04
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