|
Pompoon posted:I was a little wary of online programs, since I wasn't sure how valuable they were vs. actual classroom work. But that might make getting another degree simultaneously a lot more doable. Is your program online? I went to UW-Milwaukee, mostly on-site, but took 2 online courses. I did not like the online courses at all. I felt like I got a lot less out of them than the on campus classes. My displeasure was all about the format and not the content. I think you need to just try an online course and see if you like how it is done. I know I would have been miserable if I was a distance only student. Anyway, you really need to make yourself stand out as others have been saying. I finished my course work this past summer, but didn't technically graduate till this past December. I have 5 years of corporate IT experience, a comp-sci under grad education, a history BA and MA, wrote a thesis for my history MA, and got the MLIS with a concentration in archives. I was offered a position in October, and this has been by far the exception rather than the rule. Of all of my friends from Library school that are finished or almost finished I know of only one other that has a position in libraries that they want. Check out this 2009 survey by Library Journal of 2008 grads: http://www.libraryjournal.com/article/CA6699218.html Based on my personal experience, which is of course purely anecdotal, I would have to rank the aspects that helped me get a position as: 1. 2 graduate level degrees and field specific concentration 2. IT background 3. Work experience in various archives as volunteer/intern 4. Choice to write a thesis for history MA 5. Willingness to relocate Another important aspect I can't really rank is networking. I wouldn't have even found out about the position I have now if it wasn't for a librarian friend, who at the time lived 1000 miles away, who alerted me to it. If you are worried about the time it takes to finish a dual degree program, keep in mind that it can be done very quickly if you are willing to work at it. Granted, my parents were supportive enough to let me move back in with them so I didn't have to work just to survive while I returned to school, but I finished my history MA and MLIS (48 credits total), including researching and writing my 130 page thesis, in 3 semesters and a summer. During this time I also had 1 part time paid internship, and 3 volunteer work experiences; all in archives. nesbit37 fucked around with this message at 04:59 on Feb 25, 2010 |
#
¿
Feb 25, 2010 04:56
|
|
|
|
| # ¿ May 22, 2024 11:53 |
|
|
Insane Totoro posted:
Considering most academic positions start with 20 days of vacation a year, on top of a ton of holidays, personal days, and sick days, I think thats livable.
|
|
#
¿
Feb 26, 2010 14:44
|
|
|
Best for what, prestige? Quality of programming varies widely if you plan to specialize. The best library school isn't necessary the best for archives or digital librarianship or information Architecture, for example.
|
|
#
¿
Feb 27, 2010 21:53
|
|
|
Lee Harvey Oswald posted:Are library jobs hard to find even if you're willing to move? I'm starting MLIS school in the fall, and this thread is certainly disheartening. If I focus on something like database management or cataloging, is the degree flexible enough to where I could find similar work outside of libraries if there aren't any jobs available? If you are willing to move it helps a lot. Some of the talk in here is more dire than it really is. Yes, its tough. But some options in library science are easier to get into IF you are qualified. The biggest one of these is anything requireing IT skills, such as systems librarianship and information architect. If you really want to be a librarian, I strongly advise you pick what kind of information work you are interested in first, and then sculpt your education and volunteer/work experiences around that. The public librarian, school librarian, children's librarian, and cataloger are some of the most difficult positions to get, most sought after, and least paid.
|
|
#
¿
Feb 28, 2010 01:02
|
|
|
Chicken McNobody posted:I got my MLIS almost completely online (that's how they offered it, even though I was on campus anyway for my anthro degree). If you're really that passionate about library work, unless you're into archiving, I'd say that's the way to go. If someone is interested in doing an online MLIS with a focus on archiving I would recommend UW-Milwaukee. The archives programming is actually really good and pretty prestigious. The program was directed by former SAA president Tim Ericson, and is now lead by the well known and connected Amy Cooper Cary.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 1, 2010 18:39
|
|
|
Pompoon posted:For some reason, loving books seems to go hand in hand with loving cats. I don't really get it; why would you want a pet that thinks it's so much better than you? I am a man and I dislike cats, but a lot of my coworkers like them.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 7, 2010 01:12
|
|
|
There are TA positions for on campus programs (at least there were at UW-Milwaukee) and the TAs did grading and such for onsite profs who had online classes, but no TAs for the online only professors. There were not many TA positions however, so if your plan to fund your education hinged on it I wouldn't go expecting you will get one for certain. Other than that, the only thing I am aware of is to just go straight to Phd or get a job that will pay for you to get the degree over 4 or 5 years.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 14, 2010 20:09
|
|
|
Pompoon posted:
Here is the admissions data for UW Milwaukee. http://graduateschool.uwm.edu/forms...-all-degree.pdf If you don't feel like clicking the link, for Fall 2010, 279 applied to get into the MLIS program and 188 were admitted. This does not count the dual degree programs. Fall of 2009 it was 262 to 163. If you wanted to see the stats for the dual degree programs scroll down to the coordinated degree section. Goes to show you why people with 2 degrees are so much more valued. Hardly anyone shoots for two at once.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 15, 2010 18:26
|
|
|
Spoilers Below posted:
On the second masters, if its something you are interested in pursuing look at places with coordinated programs. I did mine with MLIS and history, which UWM had a program for that was 48 credits total. It was crafted in a way that it shaved 6 credits off of the MLIS and 6 off of the history degree. The only disadvantage to this was less electives, because you had to take certain MLIS courses that the history department accepted as essentially overlap, which happened to all be archives related. Its a big money and time saver, especially if you consider many people only go to grad school for 6 credits semester, thats a whole year shaved off of getting both degrees separately. You can finish quickly if you are willing and able to put the work in. I finished both degrees in 3 full time semesters and a full time summer. As to the whole second career comment, its definitely true that a lot of people do this as a second career. However, it seemed most people's first careers didn't really add much to help them get a library job. Unless your first career was in some form of IT, possibly management, or you want to be in a specialty specific information job (primarily law, medicine, or education) its not a huge boon.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 16, 2010 12:29
|
|
|
GregNorc posted:Did doing a dual master's significantly increase your tuition/time to completion? Even if it's a liberal arts degree? (Eg: M Phil, Masters in Poly Sci, etc)? It didn't cost more in the sense of per credit or semester, but it did in the fact that I had to pay for 48 credits for the two degrees (total) vs 36 for just the MLIS or 24 for just the History MA. As for cost, it depends how you utilize your semester. There are some loopholes. For example, at UWM, onsite courses were about $400 less expensive for 3 credits compared to online courses due to BS technology fees. Also, if you had all onsite courses than anything over 8 credits in a semester was free. I had to take 2 online courses due to timing, but essentially I took 48 credits, paid for ~38 of them, and walked away with 2 degrees.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 16, 2010 14:15
|
|
|
There is a stereotype that male librarians are gay. I don't know if that plays into it at all. I know a few homosexual archivists, but not so many that I would call it the norm.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 17, 2010 22:06
|
|
|
dvision posted:The need for traditional brick libraries full of books is plummeting and I don't believe a new model has been introduced yet that provides a lot of hope. There is a tremendous need for smart people who can organize, transform and present large digital collections but library school is not preparing most people for that. I disagree with this. The library has always been about more than books. Its a place of community, somewhere for kids to go, for the poor and otherwise information sparse to get entertainment and access to information, knowledge, share ideas, education, etc. People traditionally think of libraries and books going hand in hand, and thats whats changing. Not the need for places like libraries. Digital is a part of the future, but its not the only part.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 19, 2010 23:39
|
|
|
Enforka posted:I was wondering if anyone had gone into the field of Information Architecture and could tell me what it's like. I always had an interest in technology and this field seems like a good way to merge that, my interest in the library sciences in general, and of course, my desire to make bucket loads of cash. The more you can do with the back end of computer software the better. I won't say you can't be in IA without a computer science background, but having one would help tremendously. The other thing about IA is that its a very new field, and as such there are no hard rules or expectations for IA. From my understanding, to break into it successfully you pretty much need to network. Find someone who is already into IA professionally and willing to mentor you, and then go from there with your LIS background. All that said its definitely the most lucrative thing you can do with an MLIS. Making 6 figures within your first few years of IA is pretty common from what I understand
|
|
#
¿
Mar 29, 2010 13:46
|
|
|
You should think about what you would like to do, not necessarily what you will be learning. The MLIS can open up some doors that are otherwise shut to you as far as IT is concerned, and you will be a rarity in the library field. Most system librarians have fell into the role, they weren't trained for it and don't really have a true IT background. This is a part of why systems librarianship isn't well defined, as well as its pretty new. I am a systems librarian with an IT background. Your main function is to bridge the gap between IT and librarianship. Both professions work with information, but in different ways and they don't think of information in the same way. A big part of what I do is serving as liaison to translate how my archivists and librarians want information managed and how programmers and IT want to design software/databases to manage that information. Other things I do is evaluate potential new systems, implement new systems, train staff on those systems, bring legacy data into new systems, plan future grants and projects and their technological involvement, work closely with vendors, make sure metadata from one system can "talk" with another, write/edit xml style sheets, and a host of other things. Of course at some institutions systems librarian is no more than a librarian who also plays at help desk support. You just have to watch where you are going to work, what you are getting hired for, and what you want to do. Fake edit: Here are the job duties for my position from the ad I applied to, hope it helps define things a little better for you. Specific Responsibilities: develop project timetable and coordinate timely completion of project objectives coordinate project evaluation and reports establish and manage relationships with project subcontractors and oversee their work, including: merger of two archival collections databases and creation of a new online guide, customization work on digital asset management system (DAMS), bulk import of graphics shelf list card records into the DAMS, and OPAC authority control work work with Digital Collections Archivist on DAMS uploads and testing provide technical guidance and programming support in managing HSP’s OPAC and collection management databases, including possible implementation of Archivists’ Toolkit participate in organization-wide discussion and planning for strengthening digitization program, forming digital access partnerships, and improving use of information technology for collection management and access perform other duties as assigned. nesbit37 fucked around with this message at 02:13 on Apr 11, 2010 |
|
#
¿
Apr 11, 2010 02:10
|
|
|
If the tuition is free I don't see what her problem would be, unless you were weighing the MLIS against a different degree.
|
|
#
¿
Apr 11, 2010 17:40
|
|
|
Yes, volunteering counts. It can be difficult to get anything but volunteering positions at a lot of places. You have to realize, volunteers aren't exactly free labor. It takes staff effort to train and manage them, so its difficult at smaller places to walk in, say you want to volunteer and be accepted. Its not automatic.
|
|
#
¿
May 10, 2010 21:42
|
|
|
Bad Sneakers posted:I was thinking information sciences, but I don't know if\how they are connected. Would it help me at all, or I guess since it's free and I have nothing better to do at this point, would it hurt my so-called library career? It could be a watered down CS or IT track. It could also be the IT side of library sciences. It depends on the curriculum, do you have a link or feedback on the specific program? It depends on what you want to do in/for a library really.
|
|
#
¿
Jun 7, 2010 19:09
|
|
|
That program is all about the tech side of library science. If you want to be a traditional librarian it isn't going to help you at all. If you want to do information architecture, information systems design, and some systems librarian jobs it would be perfect.
|
|
#
¿
Jun 7, 2010 19:58
|
|
|
I can't speak for places that would hire you, but generally a degree like that isn't going to teach you a lot of what you should know about collections, be them digital or otherwise, and its not going to do anything for reference services. The library side is more about how people use/access/find information and how you should organize to meet those needs. This degree, like a lot of IT focused degrees, will teach you how to do create systems that allow people to find information, but not necessarily how they actually do so. As a systems librarian its a problem I run into all the time. The archivists/librarians know what works for people, but not how to create something with technology to best serve them. The programmers can make systems, but they do so in a way they understand and a lot of times it doesn't mesh with users needs.
|
|
#
¿
Jun 8, 2010 17:11
|
|
|
RocknRollaAyatollah posted:I was in competition with MLS/MLIS holders too but because of my language experience I got the job. An MLS/MLIS is honestly no better than a degree from an online "professional" college from what I've seen so you should focus on other skills to differentiate you from the cat ladies. Be careful with this. Some places look at it so, but there are many that just toss an application without an MLS/MLIS. Skills like a 2nd language or 2nd graduate degree can help tremendously though. It all depends on exactly what area of library science you want to work in and where.
|
|
#
¿
Jul 15, 2010 15:57
|
|
|
Lee Harvey Oswald posted:What type of library job is easiest to find now? Anything tech heavy.
|
|
#
¿
Jul 16, 2010 00:01
|
|
|
McPantserton posted:The issue isn't really about face-to-face versus online, I'm not local. The issue is more whether or not I want to go at all. I'm really worried that I'm trying to use grad school as an excuse for why I'm not farther along in life or something and that at the end of it I'll be stuck with a set of skills that I think are interesting but aren't marketable for a job. So my thing is, am I getting cold feet because I'm afraid of loans and going back to school, or am I finally asking myself the questions I need to ask? I graduated from UWM in December of 2009, I was hired for my current position in October of 2009. Tech skills, networking, luck, and finally the education got me the job. If you know what you want to do and you have to have the degree to do it then go. You will be happier in the long run. If you still are not sure I would hold off. If you really want to work in a library or archives you should go. There are also other things you can do with an MLIS that are more likely to get you a job. Information Architects are in demand and make very good wages. Personally, I think you need to weigh this based on how happy you will be long term. If you are ok with the possibility of being unemployed for a while after school, and a career that typically has a low wage anyway, but will doing something that makes you love your job then I think its worth it. If you are going just because you think its for you and you don't know what else to do, hold off. If you do go, start talking to as many people as you can, get internships, do some real research, and get yourself known. Its the best way to get a job (speaking from the archives side at least).
|
|
#
¿
Aug 20, 2010 12:39
|
|
|
resources101 posted:Am I on the right path to becoming an information architect? I am taking a blended HTML, CSS, and XHTML college course. I already taught myself some of the material before I took the class and it was far easier than I expected. Your learning some of the base skills, but it goes much deeper than learning some of this. What really separates IA from typical programming and web design is the study of human computer interaction (HCI), concentrating on the user experience (UX), and user studies.
|
|
#
¿
Sep 11, 2010 07:33
|
|
|
resources101, what is your email address? You can't get PMs.
|
|
#
¿
Sep 13, 2010 15:40
|
|
|
Doc Faustus posted:This week was my introduction to MARC and metadata in general. I'm really, really hoping that cataloging is a lot more interesting in practice than it is on paper. Cataloging can be fun, but also a huge headache. We have a huge undertaking at HSP you can read a little about that highlights the importance of good original cataloging. This project has been by far the biggest pain of my work so far: http://processandpreserve.wordpress.com/2010/06/21/out-with-the-old/ http://processandpreserve.wordpress.com/2010/08/25/obsolecence-inv/
|
|
#
¿
Sep 19, 2010 16:20
|
|
|
Honestly, I would be happy the classes are theoretical. A lot of the practical is learned on the job. That's why you need to get an internship or start volunteering while taking clasees.
|
|
#
¿
Oct 14, 2010 19:35
|
|
|
muscat_gummy posted:I don't really want to take an unpaid internship because I have bills to pay. You know, having a place to live and eating and that stuff; I'm cheap as hell so it's not like I'm living lasciviously but I need some income. And I'm in Austin so there's a ton of free or cheap student labor available to anyone who needs some. I am sorry to break it to you, but if you want to get a job in libraries you need to do some actual work in the field. Its possible to get hired without experience, but far more difficult if you don't put any time in, even if you have to do it volunteer. You don't have to put in 40 hours a week. Even 5 a week volunteering speaks volumes on an application. Your competition will probably have much more. muscat_gummy posted:My classes have practical sounding titles but are almost all theory, particularly "Understanding and Serving Users" and "Organizing Information." I have learned nothing about either of those topics. I am taking a class on MySQL and PHP, but I feel that I could just learn that sort of thing on my own. I already know SQL and a few different scripting languages so I don't think I'm going to use more of my tuition money for stuff in that direction. (This is the only practical class so far.) This is why you need to enjoy the theory classes while you can. The practical stuff you can teach yourself or learn on the job. Ideally you should be looking to further the profession, not just learn how to use google more efficiently or work with databases. Places like to hire people who want to improve the profession. muscat_gummy posted:Not only are most of my classes theory only, they're also discussion based. So I'm paying the admittedly-pretty-cheap tuition in order to be taught by my fellow students. This holds true for one class in particular which consists of student presentations and discussions. Nothing else. While some professors do just suck, discussion helps facilitate new ideas and understanding. A lot of people don't learn very well just being talked at by someone but participating in a discussion. Its grad school after all, you should want to be there and want to learn and participate more about the profession you are trying to get in to. The best classes are usually small colloquiums and seminars that are discussion driven. Professors usually guide these classes but do not do even close to the majority of the talking. muscat_gummy posted:I do want to work at an academic library, but I'm not delusional about the amount, or lack, of job prospects out there. If you want to improve your job prospects for academic libraries then I think you need to reevaluate what you want to get out of your program and consider getting a 2nd masters. I know a lot of academic institutions that will not hire librarians without a 2nd masters. muscat_gummy posted:I know I'm being a big sad-sack; we'll see how next semester goes. As least I'll be taking a managing information organizations class! I hope it gets better for you, but I think you really need to take a second look at what your doing. The attitude and concerns you have expressed make me wonder if you really want to be goign into libraries in a capacity beyond being a paraprofessional. I know based on what you have said in this thread so far I wouldn't want to hire you.
|
|
#
¿
Oct 15, 2010 13:13
|
|
|
muscat_gummy posted:Even if I volunteer a few hours I'm still going to need a job providing income. And 5 classes plus 20 hours of work plus 5 hours of volunteering would be kind of a lot. (Perhaps I won't be that retard who takes so many hours next semester.) If you can't do it you can't do it, but if you want a job you should try and find a way to make it work. When I was in library school I didn't intern or volunteer my first semester, but I made sure I did at least something the rest of my academic career. muscat_gummy posted:I'm not enjoying the theory classes because I'm not learning anything, even about theories. How is discussion among people who have no prior knowledge of the field going to help anyone? Maybe I just don't understand how this grad school thing works, but it would make more sense to give us all a common knowledge base and then have us discuss things. The courses I'm complaining about are required and about 95% of the class is made up of first semester students in both cases. I don't know; when I take a class called "Organizing Information," I expect to actually learn something about, well, how information is organized in libraries or other information settings. Or theories of how it should be. Or a history of how it has been. Anything! The fact you are all first semester students shouldn't matter. I don't know how your professors have things set up or whats been assigned to you, but ideally you should have a large amount of reading and perhaps an exercise or two like a writing or research assignment. In class the professor should give some guiding questions and the class should take it from there. If that's not happening then someone isn't doing something right, and it isn't necessarily the professor. Edit: Like Manguero said, 5 classes is a lot for grad school. At Milwaukee they would only let us take up to 12 credits (4 classes) maximum, and it was not at all encouraged or recommended. I did it, but it was not fun. My MLIS was easier than my history degree, but I still had about 1000 pages worth of reading per week plus writing for my 12 credits with 2 history classes and 2 library. nesbit37 fucked around with this message at 16:26 on Oct 15, 2010 |
|
#
¿
Oct 15, 2010 16:18
|
|
|
It is going to depend on the place and what they are looking for. If its a pretty basic position with lots of local applicants that are qualified they will probably look at them first. If its something a little more specialized they will look out of state as well. They want the best person for the job, the problem comes when there are multiple best people for the job. If it makes you feel better, I was hired in Philadelphia last year while I was living in Milwaukee.
|
|
#
¿
Oct 29, 2010 02:27
|
|
|
This may not be exactly the best place for this, but I am looking for commentary/opinions and I didn't want to create a new thread. I just finished up an experimental project for work (archives). I had to do something ridiculous, so I ended up with a musical finding aid. Useful? Enjoyable? Terrible? Does it raise larger questions? Just a gimmick? What do you think? blog post on the project: http://processandpreserve.wordpress.com/2010/11/03/greenewaltmfa/ The musical finding aid itself: http://www2.hsp.org/collections/manuscripts/g/0867Musical.html edit: I know this is super last minute since the apps are due tomorrow (11/5), but we are also hiring for a project archivist. I know we have gotten dozens of apps so far, but might be worth a shot if you need work, have archives experience, and especially if you live near Philly: http://www.hsp.org/default.aspx?id=1580 nesbit37 fucked around with this message at 11:16 on Nov 4, 2010 |
|
#
¿
Nov 4, 2010 11:13
|
|
|
GregNorc posted:I disagree somewhat. I'm a technologist, and from my perspective, a lot of what librarians do is being automated. While some hiring pickup may occur, I don't think staffing levels are ever going to be what they were before the Internet really took off, and salaries are simply not going to be at the same level they were - most of the jobs will be entry level clerking and shelving positions. You will not get paid 60 grand a year to human information dispenser. I agree with you on some level about reference services, but there are many other things librarians and related professions do that are not being, or cannot currently be, automated.
|
|
#
¿
Nov 17, 2010 18:24
|
|
|
We are in the process of hiring a Canadian librarian, so its the opposite of what you are trying to do but the process is similar. My guess is they would be reluctant to do so because of the visa. Its a huge pain for us, as it's expensive and time consuming. The only reason we are going with this person is because they have credentials above and beyond any of the other applicants in the area we are hiring for.
|
|
#
¿
Jan 31, 2011 21:03
|
|
|
DentArthurDent posted:edit: ^^^^^^ I thought the visa situations for Canadian librarians in the U.S. (and vice versa) was fairly straightforward. Never looked to deep into it myself, but I believe they are part of a professional category which makes it easier. It may be easier than other visas, but its still a pain. Its costing us over $1000 in fees, which was not budgeted for in the grant, and there are several weeks of red tape to get through and make it happen. The only reason we are forging ahead is because of this person's specialized skills.
|
|
#
¿
Jan 31, 2011 21:35
|
|
|
semihippie posted:Networking, networking, networking. At least, that's how I got mine. Seconding this. I find its a combination of luck and who you know. I got my first position because someone I knew happened to catch it locally (I was living 1000 miles away at the time) and recommended me for it. Most of the people I know that get hired here and other local institutions are either known to their other professionals already, or if they are new, started as interns or short-term project positions and then were able to either keep going with additional projects or get hired on when an opening comes up. This is from my experience in the world of archives and cultural institutions, however. I imagine the same applies to public and academic libraries only with fewer people getting brought on with soft money.
|
|
#
¿
Feb 28, 2011 17:02
|
|
|
Insane Totoro posted:Networking. There's also a fair amount of what is basically cronyism in libraries. Its very incestuous really. People are amazed I was hired as an outsider to not just the city I am in, but the east coast cultural scene in general. Its not that they are prejudice, everyone just seems to stick with the devil they know.
|
|
#
¿
Feb 28, 2011 17:04
|
|
|
Most academic jobs want two masters, including the MLS. I haven't looked in a while and it wasn't where I wanted to work, but from what I remember, most public libraries posted their positions on either their own website, or on some sort of local government job board.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 4, 2011 22:29
|
|
|
I went to UW-Milwaukee for my MLIS - concentration archives but I know and have worked with people from both Michigan and Austin. The Austin people seem to be everywhere, and the program is well respected. Michigan's is as well, but I see fewer of them around. I can say that it depends somewhat where you want to focus in archives. If you want to look at human rights issues, Michigan seems to be the better school.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 6, 2011 22:25
|
|
|
Not sure about the job situation, but I do know that catalogers are typically the lowest paid of librarians if that matters to you. Have you taken any cataloging courses yet?
|
|
#
¿
Mar 7, 2011 13:18
|
|
|
What type of library position are you looking for, exactly? From your posts I can't tell if its public library, specifically reference services, or just whatever you can find. The only general advice I can give without knowing specifically where you want to work is tech skills and enthusiasm. I know a lot of people who went to library school just because they didn't know what else to do. Separate yourself by demonstrating you really like library/information science. Volunteer, attend events, do some independent research and try to publish something, start a LS relevant blog and keep it up to date with more than just links to interesting articles, etc. As for tech skills, it needs to be beyond just knowing how to use google effectively. Any sort of programming, website design or information architecture skills, and knowing how to use a database properly can help a lot. Again, though, it all depends on what exactly you want to be doing.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 7, 2011 18:29
|
|
|
|
| # ¿ May 22, 2024 11:53 |
|
|
Do the practicum at the university's special collections. It will hit usefulness for both LS and history related references and professions. If you have specific questions about special collections and don't want to clog up the thread feel free to send me a pm. I direct a department at a historical society and am on hiring committees so hopefully my advice would be of some use.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 7, 2011 20:18
|
|