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Hadlock posted:What's the stall speed of a commercial jet liner in that sort of situation at that altitude? I'm sure extreme roll and pitch maneuvers bleed off some speed but I'm really struggling to imagine a 737+ sized jet entering a stall immediately after cruise speed and altitude, followed by a flat spin During training for my last two type ratings, we've gone up to FL410 and chopped the power and watch how long it takes for the speed to bleed off enough to stall, and how much altitude you lose during the recovery. We have to start considerably slower than our cruise speed because it takes so long, and even then we usually deploy the spoilers at some point just to speed up the process. We're talking 5+ minutes.
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Apr 22, 2024 13:28
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Additionally, aircraft certified in the US under CFR Part 25 are subject to certain rules regarding maximum cabin altitude after a failure of an engine or pressurization system, and allowable time to descend in order to maintain the maximum continuous cabin altitude. Practically, this limits most twin engine aircraft to FL410. Noted exception is the 787, since it has electrically-driven pressurization, and each engine has two engine driven starter generators.
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Apr 22, 2024 13:59
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Theris posted:Admiral Cloudberg Huh, this reminds me, it looks like (actual ex-B-52 pilot and now cargo pilot) Major Kong stopped posting to his blog on dailykos last year. Anyone know where he went to?
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Apr 22, 2024 14:33
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two_beer_bishes posted:During training for my last two type ratings, we've gone up to FL410 and chopped the power and watch how long it takes for the speed to bleed off enough to stall, and how much altitude you lose during the recovery. We have to start considerably slower than our cruise speed because it takes so long, and even then we usually deploy the spoilers at some point just to speed up the process. We're talking 5+ minutes. Is that training Pinnacle 3701’s legacy?
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Apr 22, 2024 15:19
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hobbesmaster posted:Is that training Pinnacle 3701’s legacy? Nope, the plane I'm on now can go up to FL510 so FL410 isn't pushing the limits of the plane in any way, plus we still have both engines running. The actual altitude isn't really important other than it's *high up* to show the desired effects. It's used as a way to show us the dangers of getting slow when you're that high up and how long it takes to actually recover both in terms of time and altitude.
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Apr 22, 2024 16:56
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two_beer_bishes posted:Nope, the plane I'm on now can go up to FL510 so FL410 isn't pushing the limits of the plane in any way, plus we still have both engines running. The actual altitude isn't really important other than it's *high up* to show the desired effects. It's used as a way to show us the dangers of getting slow when you're that high up and how long it takes to actually recover both in terms of time and altitude. Are you sure it isn't? Because one of the causes of pinnacle 3701 was that the crew had only done low altitude stall training, where the focus was heavily on minimizing altitude loss. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DCMmCekKO_c&t=1860s Petter posted:So as a consequence of this accident, airlines all over the world started to practice more high altitude stalls and to emphasize on the importance of really getting the nose down and keeping the nose down until the speed has recovered, using the engines nice and slowly and smoothly to get the speed up. And only once the speed is back up and the aircraft is unstalled can you start thinking about regaining altitude, not before that.
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Apr 22, 2024 17:10
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Xakura posted:Are you sure it isn't? No I'm not sure, that sounds a lot like what we did, I just don't remember 3701 being part of the sim brief for this maneuver. When I do it again later this year I'll try to pay attention to any mentions of it.
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Apr 22, 2024 17:22
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two_beer_bishes posted:No I'm not sure, that sounds a lot like what we did, I just don't remember 3701 being part of the sim brief for this maneuver. When I do it again later this year I'll try to pay attention to any mentions of it. Now I'm not sure either, because the article that he shows on video when he says that the training got changed only mentions AF447 and Colgan 3407, which happened later. https://apstraining.com/resource/faa-improvements-to-upgrade-stall-training-in-the-future/ Of course that doesn't mean 3701 didn't contribute to the change.
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Apr 22, 2024 17:35
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Bit of a coincidence, I just saw this show up in my Twitter feed. Stall recovery in a 717: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L2CsO-Vu7oc
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Apr 22, 2024 18:24
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I have a question about ILS and the practical implementation of at airports. I've noticed some airports are equipped with ILS are not in the direction of the normal, expected prevailing local weather. For example, an airport near me (CYQL) has the "normally" active used in an expected E-W configuration (06-24), with 24 being used, probably (pulling this outta my rear end) 95 times out of 100. Westerly winds are going to be typically the norm, and they can often be quite strong. As in, sustained 40-50 kts with 60+ gusts is not unusual, especially as the seasons turn. That said, the ILS is set up on 06, not 24. What would the reasoning for that be? Granted, on days that it would be very foggy or *very* low cloud it's probably not going to be crazy windy like the speeds above, but usually a west wind is what's expected so wanting an ILS but getting a tailwind in the process sounds a little strange to me. I understand RNAV/GPS approaches nowdays make that not as much of an issue, but before the days of that what would be the reasoning having it opposite what you would expect?
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Apr 23, 2024 00:22
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illectro posted:Teenage boy in left seat, girl in right seat. Boy applied some force to the yoke, overriding the autopilot which disengaged control of the ailerons. The plane slowly rolled and nobody noticed until it reached about 45 degrees, by which point the autopilot was pulling up to maintain altitude, so people were feeling extra G loading. Few tried to get kids out of the seats, and get in, but g loads made this harder. based on the cloudberg write up, it was the boy and the first officer, the girl had already gotten up: quote:https://admiralcloudberg.medium.com/painted-into-a-corner-the-crash-of-xl-airways-germany-flight-888t-04257538ac3b
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Apr 23, 2024 02:02
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slidebite posted:I have a question about ILS and the practical implementation of at airports. ILS has some limitations that may prohibit its use in certain situations. For example, it requires a straight in approach at a reasonable slope (around 3 degrees). Terrain or other obstruction might make it impossible to use on a runway. Another limitation is the physical hardware. It has to be possible to install it and have the beams clear of objects. Not knowing anything about that airport except looking at Google Maps I would guess it's not terrain but if might be the airport layout that makes an ILS on 24 difficult. The 24 arrival end is right on the 13/31 and taxiway A. Finally, small airports also have cost considerations. ILS systems are expensive. It might be be they are happy with modern SBAS RNAV approaches (which exist for all 4 runways) so they don't need to maintain multiple ILS systems.
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Apr 23, 2024 03:00
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It seems the Air Force is trialing new wheel chocks https://x.com/ryankakiuchan/status/1782456759107584392?s=46
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Apr 23, 2024 04:46
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hobbesmaster posted:It seems the Air Force is trialing new wheel chocks There appears to be a rat in the photo where the gator is between the wheels
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Apr 23, 2024 08:19
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Kesper North posted:There appears to be a rat in the photo where the gator is between the wheels The ram air turbine isn't even near that part of the plane 
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Apr 23, 2024 11:45
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I found something for Mr. Yenko: in Britain in the 1960s they made a series about British Air Traffic Control. The series is called British Air Traffic Control.
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Apr 23, 2024 19:17
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Elviscat posted:The ram air turbine isn't even near that part of the plane Haha, no I mean rattus norvegicus. Ballsy of it to just run right past a gator like that.
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Apr 23, 2024 23:28
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https://www.adn.com/alaska-news/aviation/2024/04/23/rescue-effort-underway-after-plane-crashes-in-tanana-river-near-fairbanks/ I believe this makes the eighth DC-4 or derivative (two Carvairs) the owner/PIC has wrecked.
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Apr 23, 2024 23:35
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Norway rats can chew through concrete. Cats avoid the adults. If swallowed whole, I have no doubt it could eat its way out of a gator, and the gator knows it.
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Apr 23, 2024 23:35
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Advent Horizon posted:https://www.adn.com/alaska-news/aviation/2024/04/23/rescue-effort-underway-after-plane-crashes-in-tanana-river-near-fairbanks/ god I looked it up and found at least three without even looking too hard. Last one was in 2020. This company should change from a fuel company to a scrapyard
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Apr 24, 2024 00:07
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Phanatic posted:Bit of a coincidence, I just saw this show up in my Twitter feed. Stall recovery in a 717: I dunno what’s worse, watching that and hearing the atari 2600 pac-man game, or hearing it while being the guy recovering from a stall. Actually I do know
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Apr 24, 2024 00:24
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hobbesmaster posted:It seems the Air Force is trialing new wheel chocks It’s a croc chock.
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Apr 24, 2024 02:34
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Spaced God posted:god I looked it up and found at least three without even looking too hard. Last one was in 2020. This company should change from a fuel company to a scrapyard When I clicked, the story had updated. Seems likely that this crash wiped out the company altogether - there were no survivors. Someone on twitter posted ground security cam footage of the flight's last moments, showing a catastrophic engine failure that seems to have developed into a stall-spin. The wing with the failed engine was the one which stalled, suggesting that the prop seized as that would cause an immediate increase in drag on that side. https://twitter.com/keremaliinal/status/1782949604083798517
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Apr 24, 2024 07:34
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slidebite posted:I have a question about ILS and the practical implementation of at airports. Having flown into Lethbridge and throughout Southern Alberta fairly frequently, there's only one possible motivation I can come up with, because you're correct about the crazy winds (I've only used something other than 24 twice). If I were to try and come up with a reason why the ILS is set up for 06, the only thing I can come up with is that the ceilings and visibility are usually completely fine in this area with strong westerly winds, but frequently poo poo due to upslope when the winds are out of the east. Therefore, you are more likely to need or benefit from the ILS when the wind is out of the east, even though it's incredibly infrequent that it happens. Practically speaking, I love that 24 is set up with the VOR approach, because it means we can almost always do the full-procedure VOR 24 for training. In terms of airports that are practical to reach from Calgary on a training flight, it's either the VOR 24 in Lethbridge or the NDB/DME 35 in Red Deer if you want to do something other than an RNAV or ILS. Possibly you could do the NDB A in Cranbrook around a similar distance, but then you need oxygen, you're more concerned about the weather since you're going into the mountains, and there's enough traffic in Cranbrook that they might tell you to pound sand if you want to fly the rather challenging NDB-to-circling-minima approach.
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Apr 24, 2024 17:23
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Thanks for that post. That's the only thing I can think of too, as if the weather is bad with low ceiling or outright fog, it's not going to be very windy, but I've always thought it a little odd. There are never really "strong" winds from the east... North would be even more likely than that, and probably more likely to blow in the bad weather. That said, maybe the earlier poster was right - when they set it up "back in the day" when they were installing it there was a physical reason (some WW2 era structure?) as to why they couldn't facing west. Some buildings which have been removed/burned since then. It's always made me wonder, but I suppose now wit it's largely moot. More of a curiosity than anything.
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Apr 24, 2024 18:49
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The installation of ground infrastructure to publish IFR approach procedures in the states can often come down to localities or municipalities blocking installation, or refusing to grant the land easements required. If traffic requires, it can sometimes result in a suboptimal set of procedures. One of the best parts of RNAV approaches is that (within reason,) you can ignore everyone surrounding the airport. We currently have a similar issues with a pair of airports in Florida that are in rather desperate need of amended arrival and departure procedures and aren’t going to get them because some rich rear end in a top hat doesn’t want other rich assholes flying their airplanes near his vacation home.
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Apr 24, 2024 23:24
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BobHoward posted:When I clicked, the story had updated. Seems likely that this crash wiped out the company altogether - there were no survivors. Someone on twitter posted ground security cam footage of the flight's last moments, showing a catastrophic engine failure that seems to have developed into a stall-spin. The wing with the failed engine was the one which stalled, suggesting that the prop seized as that would cause an immediate increase in drag on that side. This video on the Flight Records channel overlays the exchange between ATC and the pilot and it appears the engine was giving them signs of trouble well before the explosion, which happens just a few seconds before the plane goes down. They called in that they had an issue and were returning to the field long before that point. The video does show the explosion and the plane falling but you don't see the actual impact which occurs just out of frame. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m4Y0TlD1068&t=190s
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Apr 25, 2024 06:41
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