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Dec 4, 2002

azflyboy posted:

Most large aircraft are capable of taking off at weights far in excess of their maximum landing weights, so fuel dumps are common on most large airliners and military aircraft to allow rapid weight loss in the event of an emergency.

As an example, the 747-400 has a maximum takeoff weight around 875,000lbs, but a maximum landing weight in the 650,000lb range. Even at low altitudes where turbine engines use a lot of fuel, it would still take hours consume that much gas, so the ability to get rid of fuel in a hurry is a pretty handy safety feature. Most fuel dump sites are located over either uninhabited areas or over water, and the fuel is dumped at a high enough altitude and airspeed that it is dispersed over a huge area to reduce any possible hazard to people on the ground.

In the event of a major emergency (a severe birdstrike for example), pilots will dump fuel regardless of where they are, but for emergencies that aren't as critical (shutting down one engine on a 747), the normal procedure is for the crew to fly to a designated point, dump the fuel there, and then return to land.

There was an incident a few years back with an Airbus and a birdstrike where the plane had to loiter for some time before landing since it didn't have the ability to dump fuel.

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Dec 4, 2002

Axim posted:

Maybe you are thinking of the JetBlue flight that tried to emergency land at LAX a few years ago (Airbus A320.) It's nose landing gear was turned 90 degrees sideways and the pilot wanted to get rid of most of the fuel in the plane before landing to minimize risk of fire if he couldn't land the plane without running off the runway or crashing. Since the A320 apparently can't dump fuel, the pilot flew over the Pacific Ocean for a while to burn up the fuel before attempting the landing, which was a spectacular success.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JetBlue_Flight_292

That was it. :downs:

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Dec 4, 2002

Boomerjinks posted:

WB-57, basically the US bought the licensing to produce the British Canberra bomber, it sucked for what we wanted so we gunned it up, made it's engines start with a pyrotechnic charge, and then started using it for high-altitude weather monitoring, reconnaissance, and space program observation.

I think it's pretty, but I also LOVE goofy-looking planes.

Is the service ceiling on the WB variant any different from the initial airframe?

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Dec 4, 2002

Nebakenezzer posted:

On a related note, I think the reason pilot casulties were the highest is because with either the B-17 or the B-24, if the plane went too far out of control, the G force buildup would make it impossible to move. So often the pilots would have to wait until everybody else was out, then make a break for the escape hatches themselves.

Are you saying they were fighting the yoke so their crew mates could get out or that they were pinned in their seat by said yoke?

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Dec 4, 2002

VikingSkull posted:

Then Beyond 2000 came on and I wanted a robot and didn't do my homework.

e- also today a KC-10 was doing touch and go's all day at Stewart :fap:

Wings of the Red Star was my definite favorite. Partially growing up during the Cold War painted the Russians as this mysterious enemy.

Also, Beyond 2000 and Next Step were awesome.

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Dec 4, 2002



I wonder if the folding wings prevent tip mounted AIM-120 C's like the F-16.

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Dec 4, 2002

Boomerjinks posted:

Well, yes, actually.

But the XB-70 had drooping wings. How awesome is that? :v:

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Dec 4, 2002

mlmp08 posted:

I saw one of these in person for the first time a few days ago as it buzzed over our SAM site. The one I saw was cammo rather than the gaudy show colors. It is the smallest manned jet in the world.



I want one of those.

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Dec 4, 2002

The Ferret King posted:

This video perplexes me. It seems like only some of the landings have the wing mounted wheels down. Where are they on the other landings?

They might have been fixed on there for practice landings. They fall off at takeoff during missions.

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Dec 4, 2002

2ndclasscitizen posted:

Are the 787's wings always bent up that high, or they just under load in that pic?

In flight the 787's wings are designed to flex upwards.

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Dec 4, 2002

LOO posted:

B-52 acting as engine test bed:


This is what I've wondered. I know a B-52 served as an engine test bed for the 747-100's engines, but I've heard is nearly impossible to re-work the B-52 fleet to move from 8 to 4 engines. Are the plumbing/electrical/mechanical connections so complex that the Air Force can't swap out the current layout for four engines with better economy and higher thrust?

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Dec 4, 2002

OptimusMatrix posted:

They should use four of the GE90 777 engines. That thing would be so beastly.

I can't imagine how governed they'd have to be. Four of those at full throttle could rip up the wings.

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Dec 4, 2002

MA-Horus posted:

Don't you mean rip the wings clean off, like the B-47? Gated throttles so you don't overspeed the airframe?

Either or, I guess. I forgot the numbers but the net thrust of two GE90s is the same if not more than eight TF33s.

e: Never mind. Two GE90s are 77k lbf whereas eight TF33s are 136k lbf.

e^2: Depends on the model. :v:

Two GE90s in the 773ER produce 230k lbf net thrust.

e^3: I can't read tables.

Full Collapse fucked around with this message at 21:23 on Jun 2, 2010

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Dec 4, 2002

OptimusMatrix posted:

Beaten. Goddamn phone calls /\/\/\

And yes I agree I said 4 but 2 of the lower to midrange engines would be plenty.


Yes but the bottom of the line GE90 produces 77k lbf whereas the highest model creates 115k lbf. So wouldn't it be more fuel efficient and mechanically effiencient to only have 2 engines instead of 8?

Air Force likes to have four engines in their bombers.

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Dec 4, 2002

I haven't been in 16 years. I'd love to go again.

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Dec 4, 2002

Captain Postal posted:

First thought: awesome overload!
Second thought: Wow. They must be really loving paranoid to think someone is going to hijack the shuttle. Are the republicans back in power?



They've been flying CAP over shuttle launches for a long time. More to keep other aircraft from being damaged by the blast, ramming into the shuttle pre-launch, or magically getting hit by the shuttle as it ascends into orbit.

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Dec 4, 2002

grover, did you go posting in LF?

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Dec 4, 2002

grover posted:

I see your high performance air races, and raise you an X-29:


I always thought the X-29 was cool as hell. Would the airframe have any military value?

quote:

See, LF would probably have actually made it funny.

Well that's a shame.

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Dec 4, 2002

BonzoESC posted:

Some definitions:

turbojet - the simplest jet engine, all thrust comes from the combustion exhaust
turbofan - combustion exhaust spins a big shrouded fan and most air bypasses the hot section
turboprop - combustion exhaust spins a propeller (big unshrouded fan) and most air bypasses the hot section
turboshaft - combustion exhaust spins a shaft that goes to some other drive mechanism, such as the rear axle of a Chrysler minivan

Basically, turbojets emit a lot of energy as noise and really fast exhaust. However, fast exhaust isn't really great for propulsion and noise is loving obnoxious if you live within ten miles of an airport. Turbofans slow the exhaust down, use that energy to move a greater mass of air at a more modest speed for subsonic flight. This means they can burn less fuel, allowing them to carry more poo poo, go farther, and you to buy airplane rides for less than $500.

Turboprops are efficient at lower speeds, which for light loads makes more economic sense, because going slower in a smaller airplane is very cheap aerodynamically.

(caveat: I'm aerospergin', but not an actual mechanical or aeronautical engineer)

I'm curious. On a turbofan, whats the typical ratio of air that passes through the fan rather than the combustion chamber?

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Dec 4, 2002

Mahmoud Ahmadinejad posted:

So maybe it's a Quantas problem rather than an A380 problem?
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/11/05/AR2010110502646.html

Another Qantas jetliner suffers engine trouble

The Associated Press
Friday, November 5, 2010; 10:12 AM
SINGAPORE -- Local television stations report that a Qantas jetliner has returned to Singapore with an engine problem shortly after takeoff.

Channel 5 station said the Boeing 747 was forced to return to Singapore shortly after takeoff Friday.

Channel News Asia station said flight QF6 turned back after a problem with engine one. It gave no other details.

On Thursday, a Qantas Airbus A380 superjumbo made an emergency landing in Singapore after one of its four engines suffered a blowout.


Pretty sure Qantas uses Rolls-Royce engines on their 747s too. Somebody's going to be in trouble!

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Dec 4, 2002

azflyboy posted:

The B-47 manual also describes the aircraft as having an oxygen system installed, as well as reminding the pilot that "ash trays for the crew are conveniently located", which seems like there was a bit of a potential for disaster.

I love that about the 1950s. Ashtrays were everywhere.

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Dec 4, 2002

Ola posted:

That made me wonder too. There is quite a lot of glass fiber aircraft around, is it very different from carbon fiber?

In other news, flying a U-2 is hard.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eamnTyfkUBY

Video ruined by song.

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Dec 4, 2002

The Aardvark was so ugly it was cool.

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Dec 4, 2002

grover posted:

http://seatguru.com is the best resource in the world for picking a good airline seat. Unfortunately, they all still suck.

I like browsing SeatGuru and daydreaming about chilling in one of the First Class pods on some trans-oceanic flight.

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Dec 4, 2002

The Army used to fly my dad to Japan when he was still active. I'll have to ask him which class he sat.

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Dec 4, 2002

I remember the Falcon 4.0 manual stating that GPS can be jammed, hence the inclusion of an INS in an F-16. Take that as you will.

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Dec 4, 2002

I want that Corsair pop art like you have no idea.

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Dec 4, 2002

The old diesel carriers were something like 12 ft/gal.

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Dec 4, 2002

Ford Nucleon

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Nucleon

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Dec 4, 2002

Further proof of that was the A-16 program where they tried to strap an Avenger on to an F-16. It was stupid inaccurate which is why the Air Force dropped it.

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Dec 4, 2002

An iPad may also be shielded.

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Dec 4, 2002

There's a National Geographic documentary on Flight 447 that basically concludes frozen pitot tubes were the problem. They also show that if the crew was trained to know about the Airbus' auto-throttle, they'd power up to 85% N1 and hold the nose up 5 degrees until the tubes thawed out.

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Dec 4, 2002

Seriously, if you have Netflix, watch this:
http://movies.netflix.com/WiMovie/Crash_of_Flight_447_Nova/70148706?trkid=2361637

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Dec 4, 2002

LobsterboyX posted:

I saw one at the airport in Long Beach CA, a few months ago, I called the operaters, they fly freight to catalina, they have 3 of them - they said there is no way i can ride on it.

guess i need to show them this...



If they won't let you ride with that, they have no heart.

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Dec 4, 2002

Boomerjinks posted:

I would think that Huntsville would be in the mix there, although aside from their Saturn V display building, everything at the US rocket center is kind of... yucky. I can't imagine where USAFM would put an orbiter, it's so packed already. They were all built in California, but where might they go aside from the desert at Edwards - LA Science Center? Midway? Hornet?

I wouldn't be surprised if Wright-Patterson built a new hangar just for the orbiter.

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Dec 4, 2002

Ola posted:

Have seen that F-15 vid in higher resolution, that shot with the massive amount of flares benefits a lot from it as you can see the poor little Sidewinder go absolutely bananas.

:ohdear: Little Fox Two was so lost.

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Dec 4, 2002

I hate working out in the 'burbs, but the one saving grace is my datacenter is along the SIDS and STARS for 14R and 32L for O'Hare. Nothing like going on a smoke break or sitting in a drive through and have a jet liner fly overhead.

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Dec 4, 2002

Preoptopus posted:

I am SO loving excited for EAA just a month away. Anyone else going camping?

Maybe not camping, but I might be down for the air show.

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Dec 4, 2002

I hope the tiger stripe prop covers are standard issue.

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Dec 4, 2002

Delta's all about the cattle class?

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