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Yeah, I mean I'd just treat them as the different systems they are. Character stuff would be FATE, but actual fights would just be games of classic BT with the appropriate types of mech. Might be a bit fudgy to come up with a way to determine which piloting/gunnery skills to use for a given pilot when playing the tabletop fights out, but honestly that can be sorta easy to ballpark anyway.
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Feb 14, 2017 15:02
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The aesthetics of FATE (free-form, hand-wavey, narrative-focused drama) and Battletech (crunchy, finely-detailed simulationist wargaming) just feel totally at odds to me. You could absolutely do what you suggest, and could probably even find a mapping that seems elegant -- it would just make me wonder in what context your group would find both to be equally satisfying. If you wanted to use FATE as a very simple way of 'gluing' scenarios together and give them some more of the interpersonal context such that it would just stay in the background and be a minimal part of the actual play time, it might work pretty well. But I would definitely not use it in any context where the group playing wanted to rules lawyer about things as FATE kind of relies on a group wide new-age hippy buy in to the "narrative" over "winning" I think.
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Feb 14, 2017 18:24
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Drone posted:Yeah, I mean I'd just treat them as the different systems they are. Character stuff would be FATE, but actual fights would just be games of classic BT with the appropriate types of mech. That's pretty much the way I do it. Only thing is I allow buying of BT pilot abilities as stunts, I allow them to use fate points as rerolls for instakill situations and in certain situations that involve their player aspects. Otherwise any mech-on-mech action follows BT rules. Piloting/Gunnery is just X - the equivalent FATE skill, and you set your X depending on how powerful you want your players to be in a mech vs how powerful you want them to be outside one. I'm writing up the system as I go along - it's very much an experiment and I'm sure it's horrendously broken in places, but I can link you the documents if you're interested. It's all based on FATE Core, the SRD for which was linked a few posts abocve. Hubis posted:The aesthetics of FATE (free-form, hand-wavey, narrative-focused drama) and Battletech (crunchy, finely-detailed simulationist wargaming) just feel totally at odds to me. You could absolutely do what you suggest, and could probably even find a mapping that seems elegant -- it would just make me wonder in what context your group would find both to be equally satisfying. I agree it sounds a little odd on the surface, but it makes sense to me, and it seems to be working alright so far. The rationale is that, while I do very much enjoy the mech battles, mech customisation and the like, I don't want to have to deal with every individual tech's attempt to repair every damaged location on every mech after every fight, or the exact amount of Cbills left after this month's expenses. The crunch behind a single battle is fine, but beyond that it gets tiring fast. So, instead of simply handwaving it away or making a GM ruling on what the results/costs of the repair are, I use the FATE engine to resolve it. This way the players can very much have an active role in that part of the game without them having to learn a whole bunch more rules and spending 50% of our playing time working out what happened post-combat. Also, I find that while BT rules are crunchy and simulationist, the lore is anything but. The lore, both from the novels and the rulebook fluff is littered with pulpy heroics and daring exploits that are right up FATE's alley. FATE adds that extra little bit of spice that would otherwise be missing from a pure BT game, while still keeping it all within a clear set of rules (albeit with a fair bit of GM interpretation). Now, whether that is something you want in your game or not is a completely different question.
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Feb 14, 2017 21:22
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Hubis posted:The aesthetics of FATE (free-form, hand-wavey, narrative-focused drama) and Battletech (crunchy, finely-detailed simulationist wargaming) just feel totally at odds to me. Remember that the main inspiration for Battletech is a series that is one half prog rock opera, one half giant robot battles.
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Feb 14, 2017 21:48
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mediocre dad okay posted:That's pretty much the way I do it. Only thing is I allow buying of BT pilot abilities as stunts, I allow them to use fate points as rerolls for instakill situations and in certain situations that involve their player aspects. Otherwise any mech-on-mech action follows BT rules. Piloting/Gunnery is just X - the equivalent FATE skill, and you set your X depending on how powerful you want your players to be in a mech vs how powerful you want them to be outside one. The program MekHQ automates all of the in-between battle tech and finances. You still have to actually hit the 'repair' button, and determine which techs are doing which thing, but it's not like you have to roll the dice every time, or look up how much a shoulder actuator costs, or how difficult it is to reattach a 'Mech arm when your only tools are a paper clip and a rubber band.
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Feb 14, 2017 22:09
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Skoll posted:I actually really like the no engine switching thing. Mechs will retain their personalities imo. I remember suggesting that engines should be locked in MWO would come up every so often in that thread and every other person in the thread would start making GBS threads on you. Locked engines, turn based, and no 'bag of guns' customization system pretty much immediately makes this the best BT/MW game yet, sight unseen.
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Feb 14, 2017 22:31
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Cease to Hope posted:Remember that the main inspiration for Battletech is a series that is one half prog rock opera, one half giant robot battles. Eh... they used the art for 2E, but the way the machines move and fight couldn't be more different. They're not super-speed machines bobbing and weaving around shots as they vomit 100000000000 missiles at everything around them. They enormous, ponderous and relentless. If I would compare them to anything from that time, I'd say they're more like really huge Terminators.
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Feb 14, 2017 23:06
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Armored Trooper VOTOMS. Come on, guys. 
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Feb 14, 2017 23:30
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Strobe posted:The program MekHQ automates all of the in-between battle tech and finances. You still have to actually hit the 'repair' button, and determine which techs are doing which thing, but it's not like you have to roll the dice every time, or look up how much a shoulder actuator costs, or how difficult it is to reattach a 'Mech arm when your only tools are a paper clip and a rubber band. Yeah, I'm familiar with it. It's a godsend for pure BT campaigns, but for roleplaying I feel it's still a bit too clunky and breaks the flow of the game. I still have it up most of the time for reference though.
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Feb 15, 2017 00:24
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Saturday was the second game in the Battletech campaign I am running (merc company working for the Draconis Combine). I have 4-6 players depending on who's free that night. The scenario is the beginning of the 4th Succession War and they were helping defend the planet Jabuka, which is on the Lyran border and defended by DCMS 5th Rasalhague Regulars. Long story made short the Lyran 19th Arcturan Guards stomped the RR and drove the merc company off-planet on a Union-class. There were no Jumpships in system and so they had to land on the 3rd moon of the planet, covered in rocky ridges and ferrous metal that fucks up sensors entirely. I drew up a cool battle map and ran them through a bunch of RP stuff leading up to the Lyrans dropping on the planet with 2 reinforced lances of pretty heavy poo poo. Since my players were defending I let them set up hidden and powered down so they would get an opening shot on the big badasses coming to gently caress their asses and level things out a bit. Friendly force Grasshopper Grand Dragon Panther Commando LRM-carrier tank (3xLRM-20) All friendlies are 4/4. One of the players, a super cool guy named Aaron, is famous among this group for "Commando Magic," which is basically code for "does the most ridiculously ludicrous poo poo with a Commando and ends up winning in spite of it." Enemy force Battlemaster (2,3) Zeus Marauder Thunderbolt Griffin Phoenix Hawk Everyone but the commander is 4,4. I expected this to be a real fight and had even written up failure conditions if the PCs lost. I rolled to see if the Lyrans were being cautious or just moving ahead and got just moving ahead so I just moved everybody forward in a staggered line. On the first round of the ambush, the Grasshopper and the Commando opened up on the Battlemaster from its rear arc. They blew through all of its rear armor and gave it a gyro hit, causing it to fall onto its back, which hit into the internals of the right torso, which rolled a 12 for critical and was just loving sheared off. This fall crippled the BLR (from PPC 4 ML 2 MG to 2 ML in one hit) but worse was that it had to stand next round and that would absolutely let the Commando stay behind it on round 2. I knew the BLR was in trouble but poo poo I still have 5 Mechs this is still gonna be a good fight. The next round the Commando blasted the gently caress out of the BLR again, including a medium laser to the head and one SRM to the head. The pilot went unconscious, which knocked it down AGAIN, and this time it fell on its loving head and crushed the cockpit, killing the commander of the enemy lance. The Battlemaster hadn't even landed a hit on anything. I had the Zeus and Marauder flanking the PCs' position. Next turn the two of them were going to break out of a heavy forest and be firmly on the PCs flank with a Grand Dragon and Panther to oppose them. Aaron told Aimee (Panther pilot) "I grant you my Commando magic for this round." The Panther hit the Zeus with a large laser and a SRM-4, which landed 2 missiles. The LL hit the Zeus's head. The first SRM hit the Zeus's head, went 1 into internals, rolled a critical, and hit the cockpit. The Zeus had suffered literally 12 total points of damage, 2 to the CT and 10 to the head. The Zeus had landed 1 AC/5 hit to the Grand Dragon's CT. Commando magic is a real thing. They killed 170 tons of Mech with 80 tons of Mech in a single loving round. 2xPPC 6 ML LRM-15 and AC/5 all together did a grand total of FIVE damage. I watched a Panther kill a Zeus in one round due to Commando magic. I felt like I had watched a UFO land and Elvis get out singing in French.
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Feb 15, 2017 01:07
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Just as an FYI, a critical hit check result of 12 only blows off limbs; torsos it generates three critical hits distributed as normal.
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Feb 15, 2017 01:09
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mediocre dad okay posted:That's pretty much the way I do it. Only thing is I allow buying of BT pilot abilities as stunts, I allow them to use fate points as rerolls for instakill situations and in certain situations that involve their player aspects. Otherwise any mech-on-mech action follows BT rules. Piloting/Gunnery is just X - the equivalent FATE skill, and you set your X depending on how powerful you want your players to be in a mech vs how powerful you want them to be outside one. Cease to Hope posted:Remember that the main inspiration for Battletech is a series that is one half prog rock opera, one half giant robot battles. Let just me go on the record in saying I think this is a rad idea if you can make it work, mind you. Using it to abstract logistics seems especially clever.
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Feb 15, 2017 01:30
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JonathonSpectre posted:Saturday was the second game in the Battletech campaign I am running (merc company working for the Draconis Combine). I have 4-6 players depending on who's free that night. The scenario is the beginning of the 4th Succession War and they were helping defend the planet Jabuka, which is on the Lyran border and defended by DCMS 5th Rasalhague Regulars. This sounds tremendously fun and Battletechy. Be my GM. What happened after the Zeus and Battlemaster went down?
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Feb 15, 2017 01:35
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I made a morale roll for the rest of the enemy lance, as the LRM-carrier and Grand Dragon had done a decent amount of damage to the T-bolt and the Phoenix Hawk, and they failed and fled off the board ASAP. They contacted the PCs a few minutes later and asked for permission to return and cut the crushed cockpit out of the BLR to recover the commander's remains and their request was accepted. The other lance of the PCs' company won their fight also, so the 19th AG bailed off the moon. The PCs took almost no damage from the enemy lance, and were able to repair their Mechs back to near-full strength. On Saturday they are going to find out that the Kuritan Tai-sa they helped rescue while fleeing off-world is not what she seems, and the Lyrans consider her a high-enough-value-target that they are coming back to get her... ...in an Overlord with a full battalion of Mechs and a dead battalion commander to avenge. Should be good times!
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Feb 15, 2017 01:46
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Defiance Industries posted:Eh... they used the art for 2E, but the way the machines move and fight couldn't be more different. They're not super-speed machines bobbing and weaving around shots as they vomit 100000000000 missiles at everything around them. They enormous, ponderous and relentless. If I would compare them to anything from that time, I'd say they're more like really huge Terminators. The point is that the giant robot parts and human parts of both Battletech and it's inspirations are dramatically separate in both tone and scale. There's no reason the game where you play as people needs to have the same emphasis on rigorous logistical detail, especially when such a system doesn't offer you much in tools to (for example) resolve the challenge of how to brush off an public insult from a minor Davion nephew without losing face.
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Feb 15, 2017 08:46
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Hubis posted:The aesthetics of FATE (free-form, hand-wavey, narrative-focused drama) and Battletech (crunchy, finely-detailed simulationist wargaming) just feel totally at odds to me. You could absolutely do what you suggest, and could probably even find a mapping that seems elegant -- it would just make me wonder in what context your group would find both to be equally satisfying. I'd been writing up a quick conversion guide to play a battletech game in the Star Wars: Age of Rebellion ruleset. I've even got a pretty neat way to handle vehicle combat by replacing the 'strain' a vehicle can normally take with a heat value that is basically a resource you can spend to get more actions/fire more weapons. All I've got left is writing up a race equivalent section and some more example mechs/vehicles to have running around. Not even going to think about allowing customization and just stick it in 3025 tech.
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Feb 17, 2017 02:19
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As an FFG Star Wars fan I'd be all over that poo poo
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Feb 17, 2017 06:36
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JonathonSpectre posted:Awesome battletech story This is awesome, and sounds like it was pretty fun (if a little one-sided). None of my BT games ever go this way. More stories like this, please.
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Feb 20, 2017 09:49
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The newest Bundle Of Holding is for Classic Battletech stuff: https://bundleofholding.com/presents/BattleTechClassic Strange to me that they're posting the CBT RPG stuff and not A Time of War. Are the two systems that different?
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Feb 20, 2017 20:23
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Dramatically different. It seems like they're going for a mostly late FASA to FanPro era publishing block anyways.
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Feb 20, 2017 20:51
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Bundle of Holding's thing is that they generally put up older versions of games for sale instead of the current edition. I don't know why.
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Feb 20, 2017 21:02
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Older versions are always better. No exceptions.
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Feb 20, 2017 21:40
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Drone posted:As an FFG Star Wars fan I'd be all over that poo poo I'll let you know when I've gotten enough of it knocked out to be playable. Its still currently in a state where literally only I could understand it but once I've knocked out a few more example vehicles I should be good to start cleaning that up. The actual rule changes themselves are pretty minor. The only big unique rules are the mech piloting/firing system thats all about choosing to shoot a single weapon, group fire (shoot everything and take all the heat) or chain fire (shoot everything but only get heat for weapons that hit but the to-hit is harder). Arquinsiel posted:Older versions are always better. No exceptions. I know people who believe this IRL and its the most depressing poo poo 
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Feb 20, 2017 23:19
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kingcom posted:I know people who believe this IRL and its the most depressing poo poo
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Feb 21, 2017 03:05
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Arquinsiel posted:While in certain cases, like most of GW's output nowadays, it's a good rule of thumb I have seen insane examples like people defending 4th ed D&D because 5th is new and thus badder. lol what. Theres a giant list of reasons to like 4th over 5th but wow is that the worst possible reason imaginable.
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Feb 21, 2017 03:12
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Drone posted:As an FFG Star Wars fan I'd be all over that poo poo The WEG Star Wars was so awesome
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Feb 21, 2017 05:37
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WarLocke posted:The WEG Star Wars was so awesome I never got a chance to try it, it was a bit before my time, though from people I know who were big fans of it makes me think you should check out the FFG star wars system friend.
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Feb 21, 2017 05:39
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It's almost a D20 style target number system, but with WoD style attribute and skill values added together to give you the number of dice to roll. It's got a lot to recommend it, but out of the four scenarios I got cheap a couple weeks back all but one are pure garbage.
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Feb 21, 2017 05:43
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Arquinsiel posted:It's almost a D20 style target number system, but with WoD style attribute and skill values added together to give you the number of dice to roll. It's got a lot to recommend it, but out of the four scenarios I got cheap a couple weeks back all but one are pure garbage. WEG's Star Wars? I'll be honest as a giant FFG Star Wars fan I would say their adventures aren't too flash either. Though they absolutely nailed the Beginner Game adventure they released ages back.
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Feb 21, 2017 05:49
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kingcom posted:Though they absolutely nailed the Beginner Game adventure they released ages back. Except the space combat bit. Maybe you guys have had better luck, but the space combat in Edge seems bad(tm).
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Feb 23, 2017 05:22
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Prefect Six posted:Except the space combat bit. Maybe you guys have had better luck, but the space combat in Edge seems bad(tm). Space combat sucks for any brawn/willpower(non-force user)/cunning focused character basically though otherwise its fine if nothing amazing (if a bit too lethal imo). Pilot choose their 'stance', rolls to see if they can gain the advantage on the target (if he succeeds he picks which angle his ship shoots at AND which angle the enemy is going to shoot him at, if you have 360 turrets that often doesnt matter) or shoots a weapon or uses a talent. Int characters repair / buff the ship /debuff the enemy. Talky characters buff allies. Agility characters shoot guns. I think it definitely does 'everyone dramatically escapes on the millenium falcon' really well or if you can have everyone flying along in their fighters blasting things but doing anything larger scale like capital ship combat is a dumb idea as it falls apart really quick. Run something like a star destroyer as terrain obstacle. kingcom fucked around with this message at 05:31 on Feb 23, 2017 |
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Feb 23, 2017 05:28
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I haven't played the FFG version but I remember in WEG you could (in space combat) force anyone who wanted to fight you to match your piloting rolls in order to stay within range. So there was a mechanic in place for doing things like dodging and weaving through an asteroid field and having the poor saps in the TIE fighters chasing you careening into things and getting blown the hell up. It was great.
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Feb 23, 2017 06:06
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Yeah, the more I think about it the more I see how WEG's space combat actually influenced X-Wing's mechanics. It's actually a reasonably good system and you can give everyone on the Falcon something to do.
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Feb 23, 2017 06:24
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WarLocke posted:I haven't played the FFG version but I remember in WEG you could (in space combat) force anyone who wanted to fight you to match your piloting rolls in order to stay within range. So there was a mechanic in place for doing things like dodging and weaving through an asteroid field and having the poor saps in the TIE fighters chasing you careening into things and getting blown the hell up. It was great. Yeah the asteroid thing is part of their chase mechanics, basically the idea is that the faster you're going the harder it gets to avoid running into things so a TIE keeping up with an ace pilot blitzing their way through an asteroid belt means the crappy TIE pilots are shattering on rocks every check. When it comes to locking people into a dog fight the system uses range brackets so the dogfight brawl mostly results in the Death Star scene in a New Hope where everyone is just zipping from one pilot to trying to avoid the guy on their tail and shooting the guy on someone else's tail. If you're trying to absolutely lock down one ship with you in a fight and force everyone else to break off from attacking either of you, they've made that a special ability for a pilot called 'This One is Mine'. EDIT: Oh poo poo I just realised this is the battletech thread, goddamn...sooo is it march 15th yet.
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Feb 23, 2017 06:51
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Hey does anyone how BAR works in A Time of War when you're not using hit locations? Because I can't find anything solid in the rulebook, which seems pretty par for the course for AToW.
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Mar 13, 2017 03:58
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Xenothral posted:Hey does anyone how BAR works in A Time of War when you're not using hit locations? Because I can't find anything solid in the rulebook, which seems pretty par for the course for AToW. When not using hit locations, of treats all hits as torso hits for the purposes of BAR.
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Mar 13, 2017 21:28
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Drone posted:When not using hit locations, of treats all hits as torso hits for the purposes of BAR. Okay rad. That makes way more sense than the way I was overcomplicating it. I was thinking it just added all of the BAR values together from all locations, but that doesn't really make sense since that would just make all of your BAR values really high and you would basically never take damage.
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Mar 14, 2017 22:02
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https://blainepardoe.wordpress.com/2017/04/01/battletech-april-fools-day-operation-total-freakin-awesomeness/ A good read.
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Apr 2, 2017 17:35
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I know what he was aiming for but I think he somehow overshot and accidentally looped back around to pure awesome.
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Apr 2, 2017 18:43
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ilClan when
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