Say one thing for Joe Abercrombie...

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savinhill: Mar 28, 2010

Most other fantasy authors would have added endless descriptions of every mundane item and totally overdone Valint and Balk vs. the Prophet to stretch it into a trilogy.

# ¿ Jul 27, 2010 21:16

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# ¿ May 3, 2024 06:50

savinhill: Mar 28, 2010

Mr.48 posted:

From Joe's blog:

"Secondly, Calder has a tough, strong, honest, loyal older brother with a pea for a brain before him in line."

I don't know if Honest and Loyal are good words to describe Scale given what we saw in The First Law books.

I can't remember who these characters are.

# ¿ Aug 20, 2010 03:11

savinhill: Mar 28, 2010

Dryb posted:

I was getting excited thinking all these posts meant it was coming out soon! Then I checked, not till February 7.

Seriously, I haven't been cock-teased this bad since prom night.

# ¿ Sep 27, 2010 23:53

savinhill: Mar 28, 2010

On Abercrombie's dust jackets, his bio says that he edits video for Iron Maiden and other bands. I'd love it if Maiden would do a song about his series like they did for Dune.

# ¿ Oct 7, 2010 03:45

savinhill: Mar 28, 2010

Axeface posted:

Burned through First Law in about four days, just starting up with BSC now. About the short story: I don't have any interest in buying the anthology it comes packaged along with, so is there any other way to get my hands on it? I don't have a Kindle or iPad or anything, for what difference that makes. I'm happy to pay, I just don't often find myself a fan of fantasy and would rather not slog through (and put dollar down for) a whole collection of it for one story I'm interested in.

Also, if that untagged spoiler about Shivers on the first page of the thread is true, I'm gonna be really full of impotent rage at the internet in about a day or two.

Have you tried the library? If they don't have it, it's short enough that you could just read it in a bookstore.

# ¿ Oct 11, 2010 18:35

savinhill: Mar 28, 2010

A Nice Boy posted:

Meh, it's not stupid. Writing is a marriage of amazing ideas and style, so if one of those falters it's noticeable. You can read an author who has an amazing loving world built, but is a lovely writer, or vice versa.

I've alawys thought Abercrombie strikes a good middle ground. His world isn't nearly as developed/though out as it could be, but he writes great loving characters.

I agree. If I'm enjoying a book enough, I don't notice those type of things. If it's a boring story, they start to stick out.

# ¿ Oct 14, 2010 23:00

savinhill: Mar 28, 2010

Bizob posted:

Didn't his Dad have his lover slowly and publicly impaled through the rectum in the city square? I didn't think it was just juvenile bitchery.

Actually I think his father saved him from suffering the same fate as his lover, it was either the church or state that killed his lover. I think he was mad at the father because the father couldn't save his peasant lover.

# ¿ Nov 17, 2010 05:27

savinhill: Mar 28, 2010

NoneSuch posted:

However much I'd like to see Logan return, I'd think it be best if he just left it at that. Maybe include a few rumours, but I like how Logan's story ended how it started. In a few years, if his idea's dry out and he starts jumping the shark, we could see a return but I don't think that'll happen.

If he did return I'd rather it be in a book set somewhere besides the North. I wouldn't mind if he had an adventure in the South with Ferro and he could still have his story arc concerning the North ending the same way it began.

# ¿ Nov 18, 2010 01:41

savinhill: Mar 28, 2010

I'm reading Heroes now and Bremer dan Gorst is awesome, he's like a medieval Mike Tyson.

# ¿ Jan 31, 2011 00:47

savinhill: Mar 28, 2010

Cosca and his ex-con sidekick were my favorite parts of Best Served Cold. They should get cameos in every single fantasy book.

# ¿ Jan 31, 2011 19:02

savinhill: Mar 28, 2010

There was some foreshadowing, such as Stranger Who Comes supporting Calder for no good reason, Bayaz sending his his assistant out for mysterious purposes during the battle, and during one of the Union meetings Bayaz's assistant whispering to him and Bayaz being happy about what he said.

# ¿ Feb 10, 2011 02:05

savinhill: Mar 28, 2010

gninjagnome posted:

I like that he put's Conan up on a pedastal, as some sort of mythic hero of good in line with the heroes of LOTR. If I recall correctly, Howard let Conan sleep around, leave friends to die, backstab people for money, etc.. many of the things the that guy is ragging on modern fantasy for.

He lists Excaliber as one of his favorite movies also. That movie was probably one of the bleakest fantasy movies ever, with scummy characters across the board engaging in incest, patricide, adultery, rape and just about any other activity that he thinks modern fantasy writers have too much of.

# ¿ Feb 14, 2011 00:35

savinhill: Mar 28, 2010

Comrade Flynn posted:

Just finished The Heroes and Wise Man's Fear back to back. Enjoyed The Heroes much, much more. Gorst might be one of my favorite fantasy characters ever. Just so absurdly bitter, his running commentary was fantastic.

Really excited to see where this whole series goes.

For two up and coming, young fantasy authors, I think Abercrombie so much more deserves all the hype and sales that Rothfuss receives. I don't know if Rothfuss is just a genius at the whole convention schmooze-fest game and has more and better connections and friends in the publishing world, thus explaining how he gets so much media hype and all the high profile blurbs proclaiming him the best thing to happen to fantasy in decades. I just wish Abercrombie got half the amount of praise and sales because I think he's a much better writer and story-teller.

# ¿ Mar 28, 2011 02:07

savinhill: Mar 28, 2010

The Heroes is awesome like every other Abercrombie book.

# ¿ May 9, 2011 20:12

savinhill: Mar 28, 2010

Man, I loved Morveer and the fact that he actually got to become Styria's version of the Bogey Man was the best thing.

# ¿ Sep 14, 2011 01:58

savinhill: Mar 28, 2010

FMguru posted:

I think she turned on him once she realized that he was just using her. They fought, and he killed her.

One of my favorite little details of the setting is the way that primary source of information about the mythological foundations of the world that most people are familiar with is a series of trashy, badly-written, overlong novels that most people turn their nose up at (no doubt authored by you-know-who and published by Valint & Balk Publishing, LLC). In other words, that world's equivalent of our cheesy fantasy novels.

I missed this, where was it in the books?

# ¿ Nov 23, 2011 04:40

savinhill: Mar 28, 2010

Kukash posted:

What are some other authors with a similar style of writing as Abercrombie? It doesn't even have to be a fantasy setting; I just really like his style.

Richard K Morgan's Steel Remains fantasy novels were very similar in tone to Abercrombie's. He's better known for his sci-fi books but I haven't read those yet.

James Ellroy is a crime novelist whose books have the same ultra-cynical worldview with amoral protagonists, although his prose style is very different.

# ¿ Feb 22, 2012 04:25

savinhill: Mar 28, 2010

Aggro posted:

I need to decide which series to start up next, since I have a pile of recommendations from here and Goodreader.

R. Scott Bakker - The Prince of Nothing
Glen Cook - The Black Company
Greg Keyes - The Briar King
Scott Lynch - The Lies of Locke Lamora
Brandon Sanderson - Mistborn
Brandon Sanderson - The Way of Kings

R Scott Bakker's series is my favorite out of all of these and one of my favorite fantasy series in general. It has a ton of depth both in the world building and thematic ideas he uses. I also think Bakker has the best writing prose-wise out of the authors listed and he improves with each volume in the series. I'd definitely recommend him first.

I also agree with other people's recommendations of the Black Company and the Lies of Locke Lamora.

I read some of that Greg Keyes series years ago and if I remember correctly it was pretty much just a basic forgettable fantasy series, not real bad but nothing to go out of your way for.

# ¿ Feb 25, 2012 07:31

savinhill: Mar 28, 2010

Trevefresh2 posted:

Will look into this. Thanks for the response.

Just know that Wolfe stands above the other authors prose-wise, not storytelling-wise. Book of the New Sun has a very abstract and meandering plot and you might not like it if you're more into plot than prose.

# ¿ Feb 29, 2012 23:40

savinhill: Mar 28, 2010

Orion just released a catalog of all their books coming out this year and this is the blurb for Red Country:

Orion posted:

His name is Logen Ninefingers.
And he�s back for one more
adventure...
Joe Abercrombie is the most
successful genre novelist of his
generation, with a remarkable,
cynical and powerful voice
cutting through the clich�s
of the fantasy genre to create
something compelling and
exceptionally commercial.
A Red Country is his most
powerful novel yet.

# ¿ Mar 20, 2012 04:56

savinhill: Mar 28, 2010

It is going to be pretty awesome getting to read more of Logen dropping his wisdom and catchphrases and then going into psychotic, violent rages when he's caught in some poo poo.

# ¿ Mar 20, 2012 05:35

savinhill: Mar 28, 2010

UncleMonkey posted:

- Regarding Shenkt: Why was he trying to keep Monza alive? (And incidentally, what a massive mind-gently caress that was.) Was he working for Khalul? Was Khalul hoping to use her to dispose of Orso so that the Union (and by extension Bayaz), would lose one of their most powerful allies? It seemed that this was hinted at and not explicitly stated, but I just wanted to know if I was reading that right.

- Regarding Shenkt and Sulfur: Who was the master Sulfer accused Shenkt of abandoning? My instincts say Bayaz, but was it someone older, like Juvens or Kanedias?

Well, onto The Heroes. And after that, I'll be stuck with the rest of you waiting until Red Country comes out in the fall in order to get my next Abercrombie fix.

- Regarding Shenkt: At first, I think he just didn't want to see his patient and the result of all his genius surgery work get killed. I don't think he took a personal interest in seeing any side win in all the fighting that was going on in the whole region of the book until Monza herself decided to become ruler of Styria. He wasn't working for Khalul, he hated both Bayaz and Khalul. Khalul did have that creepy black girl working for him in that area against Orso, who was Bayaz's pawn in that area. I don't know if it was ever stated outright that Bayaz was Shenkt's old master, but it was pretty heavily implied.

# ¿ Mar 27, 2012 01:22

savinhill: Mar 28, 2010

Plucky Brit posted:

I think the point is that Jezal has character development, he genuinely wants to do good and Abercrombie nurtures the idea that he could be a genuinely good king. Then he pisses all over that with Bayaz scaring him. It always seemed weird to me given that Jezal hadn't backed down from previous fights, but somehow Bayaz making his stomach hurt broke every resolve he had. Also I've said before that it Jezal is said to be a great card player, yet is somehow completely unable to read people. It feels like a disconnect in characterisation.

In the end I understand that Abercrombie wants to fight back against the whole idea of stupidly optimistic fantasy. But I feel that he's gone too far the other way; having nobody end up in a better position at the end of a novel is just as unrealistic as having everybody end up in a better position. The problem is I don't think that there's any balance to the books. It's all bad, everybody has bad stuff happen to them, nothing ends up better than at the start.

Except Bayaz. Still, it's hard to like it when someone objectively evil keeps on winning. As mentioned before, I'll read the other books hoping that he falls, but knowing Abercrombie it'll probably end up with somebody even worse taking over.

Don't forget that all the previous people in power who resisted Bayaz were not only murdered, they were murdered in just about the most horrific ways possible so it wasn't just Bayaz making his stomach hurt that made Jezal give in.

And while the objectively evil dude got his way in TFL, it was the opposite in Best Served Cold, where we got to see Shenkt, who seems to be against the way Bayaz and Khalul do things, start setting up a power base and opposition to them.

And not every protagonist in the books ends up worse, there's Monza, who ends up ruling and having a more positive outlook on life.

There's Cosca and Friendly, who both found friendship and purpose with eachother and the mercenary company.

There's the red-haired ex inquisitor lady who is now one of Monza's chief advisers and doesn't have to worry about feeding her kids or finding a doctor for them now.

Even Morveer had a happy ending of sorts.

TFL had more of the protagonists getting poo poo on overall but there's still Glokta, as the poster above me mentioned, and Ardee both being in a better place at the end. Ferro got what she wanted in the end also. But TFL was building up all series to just how much of a bastard Bayaz was, and when Bayaz is around trying to make events bend to his will people get hosed. That's probably why there were less happy endings in the Heroes.

# ¿ May 14, 2012 14:45

savinhill: Mar 28, 2010

Above Our Own posted:

It wasn't just Shivers. Ganmark and Costa also made comments alluding to it, and it seems odd that Monza wouldn't deny it or at least ask them what they were talking about. Also I think it's more directly implied in a lot of Monza PoV moments where it goes into how she sleeps with her brother's shirt and how close they were.

Plus she started dressing Shivers up like her brother which I took as a huge pro incest hint.

# ¿ May 31, 2012 22:53

savinhill: Mar 28, 2010

I think Oh Snapple's right in that Benna just seems like a harmless rear end in a top hat until later in the book when we find out just how devious and malicious he was.

# ¿ Jun 1, 2012 18:48

savinhill: Mar 28, 2010

I just started reading it today and I love it. I didn't know Cosca was gonna be in it so I was so happy when he first showed up in the book.

# ¿ Oct 20, 2012 20:08

savinhill: Mar 28, 2010

Hemp Knight posted:

Just finished it. First half felt pretty slow, but picked up nicely in the second half.

As for Bayaz, I was surprised that he or yoru sulfur or even Ikri didn't turn up at all. I thought they'd have been doing something behind the scenes. Why do you think he'll be getting a bit of payback though?

I loved the whole book. Best Served Cold is my favorite Abercrombie book but this one is a close second.

While Bayaz, or those others, didn't have any direct participation in the events of the novel, there was that Valint and Balk outpost being built at the end of the story.

# ¿ Oct 25, 2012 18:17

savinhill: Mar 28, 2010

ufuk kongporn posted:

In regards to the observation that neither Bayaz nor his representatives were in this book, there was the one thing at the end that Valint and Balk were setting up shop in Crease. Is this because of the development of early factories, or is this because Bayaz has plans for the Old Empire?

I think it's both, Bayaz has shown that he's very enthusiastic about the new technologies that are being developed, so he probably has Valint and Balk funding factories and inventors. Also, once the Union is secure on other fronts, Bayaz will probably want to start getting more aggressive with the Empire so the Union can eventually have access to whatever natural resources can be exploited from it's lands.

# ¿ Oct 26, 2012 05:49

savinhill: Mar 28, 2010

Yeah, I remember hearing an interview Abercrombie did years ago in which he said he was riffing on elements from the Lord of the Rings specifically in his own trilogy.

# ¿ Dec 17, 2012 22:55

savinhill: Mar 28, 2010

Honest Ray posted:

So I've got 60 pages of Red Country left and no more Joe to read. Anyone have any suggestions?

Richard K Morgan's Land Fit for Heroes series reminds me a lot of Abercrombie.

edit: To add a bit more, it's a dark and very cynical fantasy series with some humor sprinkled in. It also has deeply flawed and jaded protagonists and the action scenes are brutal.

savinhill fucked around with this message at 08:08 on Feb 27, 2013

# ¿ Feb 27, 2013 07:50

savinhill: Mar 28, 2010

Neurosis posted:

The world building is also generally a bit more interesting. The characters probably aren't on average quite as good, though.

Yeah, I agree and while I think Morgan writes some great dialogue, I'd still have to give the edge to Abercrombie in that category too.

# ¿ Feb 28, 2013 02:32

savinhill: Mar 28, 2010

I like Malazan a lot and think Erikson's a great fantasy writer. I think the Dragonball Z argument is pretty silly and mostly hyperbole and if the series did decline towards it's tail end, it's because of the mostly opposite reason of there being too much introspection and philosophizing instead of too much extreme action.

Anyway, although they're historical fiction and not fantasy, Bernard Cornwell's Saxon Stories might appeal to an Abercrombie fan. They're set in England during the time of Alfred the Great and have a lot of Viking badassery.

# ¿ Feb 28, 2013 08:48

savinhill: Mar 28, 2010

I'm pretty sure that Abercrombie's said that his next trilogy is going to skip ahead twenty years or so and is going to focus a lot on the children of some of the characters from the previous books.

# ¿ Mar 20, 2013 04:13

savinhill: Mar 28, 2010

nessin posted:

I know it's not exactly the right thread for it, but trying to ask elsewhere has gotten me little. Is there any way to find other comic books in this same vein (really just non-superhero). Whenever I try to go looking for anything comic book related, the relentless tide of superhero comic books makes it impossible to find anything but a couple really well known non-superhero comics.

If you're looking for a fantasy comic, the Dabel Brothers adaptions of George Martin's Dunk and Egg stories are pretty good.

For non superhero in general, you should check out Vertigo Comics. They seem to put out the most series that get a lot of critical acclaim and the majority of them aren't superhero related at all. I think they have a thread in BSS too.

# ¿ Apr 13, 2013 17:44

savinhill: Mar 28, 2010

Menses at Work posted:

What did you guys move on to after finishing Abercrombie's books? In my eyes, his stuff is 10/10. "Epic fiction" is usually really cringeworthy, and I dread having to dig through a whole bunch of poo poo to find another peanut. How does Scott Lynch compare to Abercrombie?

I think Richard K Morgan's Land Fit for Heroes series is the most similar fantasy to Abercrombie. There's two novels so far, The Steel Remains and The Cold Commands. It's definitely worth reading. http://www.npr.org/books/titles/166488730/the-steel-remains That's a link to an excerpt from The Steel Remains, book 1 in the series.

# ¿ Jun 18, 2013 00:02

savinhill: Mar 28, 2010

docbeard posted:

I don't know who Black Dow looks like, but in my head he sounds exactly like Al Swearengen from Deadwood.

I always pictured him as looking like this guy

from that Black Death movie.

# ¿ Jun 27, 2013 01:26

savinhill: Mar 28, 2010

Neurosis posted:

Don't you think that's pretty unassuming for one of the darkest reputations in the North?

I always thought Black Dow looked like an average grizzled northman and didn't have his intimidating reputation because of his size or looks, but had it due to his ruthlessness and remorselessness.

# ¿ Jun 28, 2013 00:30

savinhill: Mar 28, 2010

Clinton1011 posted:

The side of his face is all scares, his ear is missing, he shaves his head and has a habit of grinning at dark poo poo.

I always pictured him as an evil looking fucker.

Huh, I must've totally glossed over whatever description he got in the novels once I had my own version of him established in my head.

# ¿ Jun 28, 2013 07:08

savinhill: Mar 28, 2010

nutranurse posted:

The thing about the destruction of Adua/setting off the magi-nuke that sticks with me the most is how utterly pleased Bayaz was with doing it. Like, not some sort of sick, cartoon villain "Ha. HA! I did EVIL!!!" happy, but just ecstatic that he still has the power to set off magi-nukes.

Bayaz loves power a whole bunch, but unlike many short-sighted, short-lived villains, Bayaz has time on his side (as has been pointed out above) and recognizes that few can really challenge him.

Yeah, he definitely gets off on power. The way he acted in Heroes during the battles showed this too.

# ¿ Aug 2, 2013 05:00

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# ¿ May 3, 2024 06:50

savinhill: Mar 28, 2010

I'd definitely classify Ardee as being a good person. Just the fact that she insisted on cleaning Glokta when he soiled himself, treated him as a real person instead of a repulsive cripple, and wanted to build a real relationship with him shows that she's kind and her heart's in the right place.

Also, I'd say that by the end of Best served Cold Monza was on track to being a good person.

# ¿ Aug 9, 2013 07:02

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