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It's difficult because Bayaz is still responsible for a ton of the stuff that happens in these books. He arguably orchestrated the Breaker riots, and assassinated Jezal. So by not dealing with him the characters aren't confronting with one of the root problems in their world. But the books have been striking a good balance between showing the conflict between ordinary people and always having Bayaz just out of frame, influencing the grander events. Throwing off his yoke would damage that status quo and also his role as a symbol of immortal institutional power that crushes attempts at reform.
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Jun 23, 2020 14:12
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Khizan posted:Yoru Sulfur isn't near the threat Bayaz is, though. For example, he backs down from a confrontation with Shenkt. Bayaz isn’t much of a physical threat though. Yoru is his enforcer because Yoru still has powers because of Eating. Bayaz gets the sweats real bad and nearly faints from using his magic nowadays, his real power is immortality, banking, and secrets.
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Jul 4, 2020 01:42
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I don't think he's much interested in bringing back those old aspects of the first trilogy. I doubt we'll ever see the inside of the Maker's house again, or those characters. That one character Judge seemed to have the same markings on her leg that Fenris did in the original trilogy, so maybe she was marked by Glustrod, but I also don't think a big bad like that is coming back either. I sorta see Bayaz as the one behind everything. Though writing a whole new trilogy and not changing the status quo at all would be a bit of a waste.
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Jul 6, 2020 14:57
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He does it in the first trilogy too, by having Yoru impersonate the head the peasant rebellion. He knows these things happen, he probably wanted to make sure in this instance that he was in control of it from the beginning. If the Weaver isn't Bayaz I'll be pretty surprised.
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Jul 6, 2020 18:03
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haha gently caress it I'm going to do fanart of Shenkt if that's all there is. Someone give me a description of what he looks like
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Jul 7, 2020 15:13
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Relevant Tangent posted:The status quo changes a lot for people who aren't Bayaz. Commoners are significantly better off pretty much the world over as a side-effect of his efforts to hold on to his power as far as we can tell from the various pov. What? In what way, he has sabotaged their rebellion for better conditions in the first trilogy and in the second has pressured the lords to seize all the land which is forcing people off their farms and into horrible factories. Like the industrial revolution would have happened without him, but it he hadn't messed up then there'd be less of a willing labor supply so better conditions. There's a chance that as the Weaver he's trying to control the worst aspects of industrialization by creating an opposition to its excesses, but I doubt Bayaz cares about the populace that way. Though maybe his assassination of Jezal is from a realization that Jezal has been ineffective at providing for his people and thinks Orso will do a better job.
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Jul 7, 2020 19:12
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I think it's purposefully ambiguous but also not a step he'd take due to its inconvenience.
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Jul 14, 2020 16:28
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Somebody mentions seeing him at the first meeting though and they don't mention he's Kantic. You'd think with the racism in the Union that would have been one of the first thing they noted. I think Abercrombie is a bit uncomfortable with how he handled the Gurkish in the first trilogy, which is why he's trying to integrate more of them into the narrative like Zuri, and dispense with them as the main villains.
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Jul 16, 2020 14:56
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Okay, it could be Khalul, that would be a fun twist. But still weird for the common people to revere someone from the south when their nation just fought a big war with them 20 years ago.
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Jul 16, 2020 18:43
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https://mobile.twitter.com/ja_dig/status/1284130662551781378
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Jul 17, 2020 23:21
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Hey, six weeks until the next book!
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Aug 5, 2020 20:38
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Finished The Trouble with Peace. Very enjoyable. I legitimately thought that one of the main characters was going to die at the end there, he stretches out the suspense but you can't really see a way that Leo isn't sentenced to death. But it makes sense, Orso was still feeling bad about having to sentence that open council member to death due to Isher's meddling, establishing that he would really rather stick with life sentences. Bayaz seems much less like the mastermind he's been in previous books. The new generation doesn't respect him, his envoy is unable to stop the civil war despite being able to force choke opponents if they disagree, and he lets his bank branch in Valbeck burn twice. The Weaver's identity is interesting but it seems a bit odd no one who heard the original man speak (before Risneau took up his name) mentioned his horribly burned face. That's kind of a distinguishing detail. As with the first book, it provides a nice hook for the next one. Funny that some minor character like Salem Rews would turn out to be such a major player in this new trilogy.
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Sep 16, 2020 20:26
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Terminal autist posted:Major spoilers ahead Yeah I wouldn't be surprised if Leo ends up the new Arch Lector at the end of book 3, since Glokta retired and Pike is a traitor. Vick could also make Arch Lector. As much as it would be interesting for Pike and his people to fight Bayaz and actually extract changes, I don't think he'll manage it. Abercrombie likes his status quo with that wizard on top.
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Sep 16, 2020 22:45
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Zuri is a constant companion to Savine, there’s no way someone like that wouldn’t have noticed if she was unable to eat most foods (Eaters have to keep specific diets) plus I don’t think that’s the direction Abercrombie is going with the character. As another poster said, possible Zuri and her brothers are Eaters. Possible they’re agents for Khalul. It does seem like something is being planned for Zuri, but I hope that’s not it. There’s a hint Tolomei is back in play too if you paid attention to what the red haired woman jokes about Bayaz.
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Sep 19, 2020 05:12
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Alright maybe that's where this is going. It would add something to the final volume since so far the only threat on the horizon is the Breakers. This puts some more supernatural clashes in the the works. Something is going to happen with Zuri anyway because Savine is always remarking about how competent she is and how she would be lost without her. Joe's not going to set up something like that without either Zuri dying or betraying Savine before the end of this. Though her being an Eater would continue the unfortunate trend of every major Kantic character being a villain of some sort (aside from Ferro I guess, but she's part demon...) Ccs fucked around with this message at 20:33 on Sep 19, 2020 |
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Sep 19, 2020 20:10
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Wait when is she shown to be magically competent? And when does Glokta talk about burning things down before retirement?
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Sep 20, 2020 05:33
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Pike's plan is kind of absurd though. He had to figure that Leo would join the rebellion, account for Savine joining him, and account for them deciding a good way to help their cause would be to arm the Breakers, and account for someone in their employee having enough connections with the Breakers to arm them properly. Or did he just see an opportunity and improvise through all the stuff that was going on, always planning on an uprising at some point? It's just Leo gave them that opportunity sooner and better armed?
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Sep 21, 2020 15:32
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thumper57 posted:I'm guessing the Breakers will wind up winning, based solely on the title of the third book and Rikke's book 1 prophecy (the "owl" that will eat Orso the lamb being the representation of the "crowd's" wisdom, so the monarchy falls to communism or whatever... but no idea whether that'll turn out to be a co-opted thing with Bayaz/Khalul/Yulwei/whoever as the Stalin). It's first alluded to when Yoru and Shenkt meet in Best Served Cold. Shenkt is both a former apprentice who trained around the same time as Yoru, and a former puppet king.
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Sep 21, 2020 16:59
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Suxpool posted:I imagined this book was pretty much the end of his story...? Nah, he got spared while also being horribly maimed. That's pure 'Glokta redemption arc" material for the third book.
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Sep 22, 2020 15:26
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I thought his sentence was life imprisonment? They're not gonna let him still be governor? I assume when things go to poo poo as the Breakers/Burners attack, he'll be needed for some reason and released.
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Sep 22, 2020 15:47
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I read the ebook and didnt have that problem. There are line breaks between each pov.
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Oct 6, 2020 19:00
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Paddyo posted:I really loved that heel-turn from the first book, where the reader would expect her to be humbled and changed by her experience and exposure to the way the other half lives. But nope, turns out all it did was make her more of a megalomaniac, but this time with a chip on her shoulder. As hosed up as Leo is, he at least comes off as dumb and idealistic rather than downright evil. Orso is the best, and Rikke and Clover backstabbing Stour was awesome. I thought her logic when she found out about the plot was pretty on point though. She realized it had gone too far for her to escape unscathed, and was sort of forced to gamble everything on Leo. Like, she could have been hanged or had her assets seized just for being the wife a someone plotting treason.
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Oct 30, 2020 18:27
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That synopsis just makes me think Pike isn't actually the Weaver, and the Weaver is a title bestowed on different people by a far off master which is probably Bayaz, because isn't it always? He could have sent Yoru Sulfur disguised as various people to give speeches. What his end goal is exactly is unclear. Maybe Valint and Balk were doing some really risky financial bets behind the scenes that backfired on them, and Bayaz decided he needed a way to liquidate the bank and destroy all evidence of its assets so he could reconstitute it later in a new form. Perhaps when the revolution is quelled and the bank is back on top, it will claim back its assets based on what people believe its assets to be, rather than what it actually was.
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Nov 3, 2020 17:36
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Darkrenown posted:Wasn't Sulfur the Weaver in the original series until Jezal "defeated" the rebels? He was someone called The Tanner, similar idea. I dunno if they had industrialized weaving in the original trilogy.
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Nov 3, 2020 21:04
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PopetasticPerson posted:After the new book I went back and decided to go back through the whole series. I'm halfway through TLaoK now and my main thought is that it's a loving crime that GOT got a show but this isn't ever going to. So many awesome things to see, the House of the Maker, Alcus, the High Places, Dagoska, and Adua at the end. This is one situation of many where I think animation would be a much better job than live action. You can stuff like changing the style of a character's eyes in animation, or even change the color tone of a whole scene that shows how the atmosphere has changed when a character goes into berserker mode. And voice actors are better at altering the tone of their voices when changing personality. It also wouldn't cost 15 million an episode. I pretty much feel every fantasy series would be better animated. Give it to a studio like Mappa, Wit, or 4c in Japan. My ideal First Law series would look something like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ljqdmWkCuik Of course the way things are going it'd probably get a mostly CG adaption like that new Dragon's Dogma series and I think I'd take live action over that. Ccs fucked around with this message at 17:38 on Nov 23, 2020 |
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Nov 23, 2020 17:31
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I finished a re-read of The Trouble With Peace, still great. Orso is one of the most heroic characters Abercrombie has ever written, I think, going on a similar arc to Jezal but without all the prodding from Bayaz it took Jezal to improve. He just seems to have innate competence that comes through when hes faced with a trial, as well as the ease in social situations. Whereas Jezal was always trying to make his social situations into contests, Orso just kind of coasts. Anyway, let's see what other books are recommended for fans of this series...  Hmm, Leo wouldn't like that. Ccs fucked around with this message at 23:10 on Jan 6, 2021 |
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Jan 6, 2021 21:57
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RCarr posted:Yea there’s zero sexual assault or anything like that in any of his books. The depressing stuff people talk about is just that all the main characters don’t all get story book happy endings like in a typical story. Well... Terez gets coerced into going to bed with Jezal against her will. Never shown, but we know it happened.
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Mar 5, 2021 19:16
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So the cover was revealed for the last book in the trilogy But whoever Gollancz hired to do the covers on this trilogy apparently just mashed together some public domain artwork and a licensed image of a lion from Warcraft. You’re telling me that for a huge seller like Abercrombie they couldn’t hire a designer who could draw their own lion and had to steal this one?  Not a good look, Gollancz. Also if they didn’t clear this with Blizzard first they might have to delay the book while they redesign the cover. Absolute cock up. A real Leo move.
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Apr 17, 2021 00:34
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scary ghost dog posted:blizzard loves when other people use their horde/alliance symbols, straight up Huh. Is it deliberate homage or a lazy designer? Guess we’ll never know The latest trilogy is actually one of the first times I’ve thought the US covers were better than the British covers. Ccs fucked around with this message at 01:53 on Apr 17, 2021 |
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Apr 17, 2021 01:47
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The American covers for this trilogy aren’t bad. But yeah I’d be totally cool if they went back to the burned maps thing. It was especially funny to have those covers when the books themselves didn’t contain maps.
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Apr 20, 2021 03:05
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Hiro Protagonist posted:If I got spoiled on the villain for the First Law Trilogy, how hosed am I? A friend accidentally let it slip and realized that was a big spoiler. The books are good enough on their own that so and so being bad won't impact their quality too much.
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Apr 20, 2021 16:12
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The spirits also provide good foreshadowing when warning Logen. It's been so long since I first read the original trilogy like 10+ years ago that I can't remember if I figured out the "twist" long before the final book. They're such fun characters to read about it doesn't really matter though.
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Apr 28, 2021 15:23
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I still see a fair amount of complaints online about the first book when people come in expecting a wild ride of plot and it's mostly the characters finding their way from one place to another or slowly investigating or training for the contest. This newest trilogy improved on that a lot, spreading out the major events and giving each book more of an arc unto itself. I still really enjoy The Blade Itself though, especially once all the characters get to Adua. There's something incredibly satisfying about Bayaz walking around the city and having so many people dismiss him while the reader knows magic is real and he is one of the only practitioners. Joe managed to control the cost of magic "system" enough that its believable that Bayaz wouldn't just snap and light someone on fire to demonstrate he is the real deal.
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Apr 28, 2021 19:25
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The Vorkosigan covers were so bad I didn’t read a Bujold work until Curse of Chalion.
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Apr 29, 2021 04:50
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Well, the book comes out in a week. I'm trying to avoid spoilers, both so I enjoy it more and because my whole view of The First Law books hinges on Joe doing something a bit different with this latest trilogy. I swear if this book ends with Bayaz once again triumphant, no concessions made, the little people broken underneath his ageless heel then I will... still read any future books, but think less of their thematic ambition.
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Sep 7, 2021 17:27
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He's got too much ego for that. He sees the Union as his home base that won't be in any danger because the bank is too entwined with everything there. Meanwhile he's spending his time dealing with issues on the frontier with border skirmishes concerning Zacharius and his new imperials. I think it's implied that his issues on the frontier are what caused all the other issues that were bubbling over at home to escape his notice. Yoru Sulfur is supposed to keep stuff under control in his absence but wasn't able to do much aside from be Orso's bodyguard and tutt disapprovingly when the battle was going on in The Trouble with Peace.
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Sep 8, 2021 20:27
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I just finished the latest book and thought he managed to thread the needle juuuust barely. I will say my views on Abercrombie have changed a bit after reading so much KJ Parker. Joe’s battle scenes no longer seem as impressive and his grasp of military technology and the conduct of the armed forces is more Prachett’s Watch than any studied historical depiction. But drat if he doesn’t write more entertaining books than anyone in the genre. Also will weigh in on my thoughts about more specifics of what happened in this book once I’ve had time to think it over.
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Sep 16, 2021 05:43
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Alright, some thoughts on the book... Abercrombie is my favorite fantasy author. I've read individual fantasy novels I've enjoyed more than The First Law but as a series this one is the most consistent out there in terms of delivering focused, entertaining narratives. The latest trilogy shows how much better he's gotten at that very task. A ton happens, it's basically a page turner from the start of A Little Hatred, there's a huge amount of characters he needs to keep track of and he manages it, and he continually surprises the reader. That said, his surprises in this book involve a lot of stuff that can annoy the reader. Orso getting offed, which I suppose is this trilogy's version of West dying. Gotta kill the most heroic character I guess. Bayaz always appearing in the places you don't expect, which is fun, but never in the place you want, which isn't. Yoru Sulfur getting torn apart in his place was satisfying, and these books are great about being 90% ordinary people doing monstrous things, lulling you into a false sense of security before the actual monsters show up. The supernatural being used sparingly makes it all the more satisfying when there is a big drag down Eater fight. But in the end Bayaz is safe, planning the next bit in his plot. I'll get back to his newest recruits and the vision Rikke has later. The little mentions throughout the book of the House of the Maker always remind you magic is a force in the world, to the point that you start to wonder if the weather is changing to punish Bayaz' enemies or make passage easier for his allies or if its all a coincidence. For all the subtle magic though there's a big "why does Yoru wait so long to try anything? Is he waiting for the paperwork to go through or something?" He can't find Pike and kill him to put a stop to Valint and Balk's destruction much earlier? Is he waiting specifically for a kind of peace to be restored before he does any killing, or just wants to confirm that Glokta is involved? Why? I know why, in the terms of how the narrative is structured and paced, but I don't buy it in terms of what these characters are actually capable of. Leo will be the most divisive part of this book for people I think (or maybe Zuri turning out to actually be an Eater. Though that was foreshadowed pretty hard. The equivocation about "eating people and exploiting people through capitalism, basically the same" felt a bit hollow. I know part of these books is always trying to point at magical power and economic power being two ways of acheiving the same ends, and maybe this is meant to strengthen that theme, but it felt more like "aw gently caress I've made the only major brown characters in my sort of progressive fantasy trilogy into cannibals, damnit... better cover with something about how cannibalism is just capitalism with less steps.") Anyway, Leo. gently caress that guy! He doesn't grow at all. Suffering does not humble him much, just exposes greater depths of being lovely with more forethought. But not enough, seeing how easily Savine outmaneuvers him at the end. Their relationship is meant to mirror the Jezal/Bayaz situation from the first books, two ppl who were allies but the former realizing where the real power lies by the end. And Savine even has a cadre of supernatural immortal people to back her up that Leo doesn't know about. The reader has to feel that Leo got some of what he deserved, crippled and in pain with a ruined marriage, but he's also alive, maybe able to come to terms with his latent homosexuality in the future, and able to be made as comfortable as possible with the power of the state. Finally there's Rikke. Is she the most heroic character of the bunch who remain alive at the end? Maybe. Things would end a bit too happy for her if not for her vision. That felt like it was put in both as a sequel hook and as a way to make her story not just conclude with everyone celebrating and thinking everything would be fine forever. The vision is its own can of worms. The most blatant sequel bait in the entire series and also something I'm not sure if Joe will ever write. I imagine he will write more First Law books down the line, he's only 46, maybe we'll see a new trilogy with Glustrod's return sometime in his 50s. Or the characters will band together to avert such a crisis, finally coming together for the common good like it seemed they were doing before Leo stabbed Forest. Too naive to expect anyone to believe the "common good" in the Abercrombie universe though. I might have more thoughts later about the french revolutions sections of the book. At least people were pushed off a tower and he didn't have one of the engineers literally invent the guillotine. Gotta file the serial numbers off a bit better than that.
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Sep 16, 2021 15:06
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Relevant Tangent posted:He's said he wants to do a trilogy of trilogies for the setting with other books to flesh out parts of the world we wouldn't otherwise have access to so it wouldn't surprise me at all if he does three stand alone books like he did between the first trilogy and the second trilogy. Maybe we'll get some more info on the South or the Old Empire. At some point we're going to see Abercrombie write a train robbery set in the Far Country or the North and it is going to be really fun. That sounds good to me. Another 6 books would be enough to take him up to a comfortable retirement age (I mean I wish he'd release a book a year but realistically I doubt we'll see another for at least a couple.) If each trilogy was a book this one did feel like the "middle book" of a series. There weren't the magical pyrotechnics I'd expect of a "finale". The bit between Eaters was fun but it wasn't the giant gently caress off magical explosions we've come to expect in a finale. But the vision at the end sets up a bigger finale that's been hinted at with occasional bits and Glustrod and stuff about the door between worlds coming unstuck again because Bayaz used the Seed.
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Sep 16, 2021 18:12
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During the book I thought Joe was sort of pulling a gendered thing with Savine and Rikke succeeding in resisting Bayaz where Jezal and Glokta had failed in the previous trilogy. That gets undone a bit though because Glokta does have his grand plan for uprooting Bayaz from the Union and Savine is just a part of that plan. So its more that there are a bunch of characters who have learned not to trust Bayaz and know what he's all about. Orso even announces it to the public during Savine's trial. Bayaz's part in the drama is a very very open secret by now and people are starting to do something about it. Heck, it makes Bayaz' plan to have Hildi inherit the Valint and Balk names seem silly. He should have her come onto the scene with a new name and unknown sources of capital. I assume Valint and Balk as a bank are still active in some area of the world, but not sure where. Styria? Wouldn't Monza and her Eater have chased them out? The Old Empire? Zacharius wouldn't allow it surely. The South? Also, the bit with the bank vault being empty. Is that meant to be a jab at finance, that it's all fake, or that they smuggled all the paperwork out of the Union long ago and maybe the original debts and deeds and promissory notes and so forth are all held with Bayaz at the Great Northern Library? Because the issue is, if you're supposed to be a powerful magus but you can't actually use magic too often because its mostly leaked out of the world and you just lost all the paperwork proving you own stuff when your bank branches were burned, how do you actually exercise that power? Especially when a lot of your bank staff was also executed in purges and your right hand man was just killed? Of course this sets up Bayaz getting desperate in a final trilogy and overusing the Seed and accidentally opening the doors to the demon world because he's been pushed to the brink.
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Sep 17, 2021 20:37
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