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Dominic White posted:I'm surprised at the number of people who are basically saying 'I bought this game without really knowing what it is, and I am confused and angry now'. It's a Cavia action-RPG a confirmed to be a followup to Drakengard. You don't go into something like that expecting technical mastery or perfectly tuned gameplay. You go in expecting style, atmosphere and that strange vibe that you only get from games that genuinely feel like an individuals vision, rather than something designed to a list of bullet-points. Yeah that's one thing I really like about this, with the varied gameplay and all the little self-aware references it feels like it was made by people who genuinely like games, not just people concerned with playing it as safe as possible to maximise profits. There was this one Dutch review on Metacritic that apparently said it had "absolutely no originality". Yeah, Zelda style action RPGs with bullet-hell elements where you can do drift turns while riding a giant boar are a dime-a-dozen these days, I played like 3 of them just last week  edit: Ddraig posted:Just a reminder, this is the only game of recent times that allows you to powerslide a pig and punch sheep in the face with a giant red fist. 
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May 3, 2010 01:35
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quote:The OP is basically exaggerating on an extended scale Yeesh, does it really come off that way? Maybe I should re-write that section. I tried to mention that the gameplay was not terrible, I didn't think that would imply I thought the gameplay was amazing. I even expressed my utter indifference for the gardening and the fishing. I don't think the game mechanics are terrible, they're just adequate. The questing can be grindy if you choose to do it (which I am, dammit, and I'm so close to ending A), and the game is very easy to break by purchasing some of the stronger weapons or even abusing some of the magic.
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May 3, 2010 01:39
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InnercityGriot posted:Yeesh, does it really come off that way? Maybe I should re-write that section. I tried to mention that the gameplay was not terrible, I didn't think that would imply I thought the gameplay was amazing. I even expressed my utter indifference for the gardening and the fishing. Eh, I don't mean to be unfair, sorry. It just feels a bit glowing for my tastes, obviously others disagree. I'm a bitter person who looks on the negative side of things, so take that as you will. v  v
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May 3, 2010 01:43
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The OP probably is a bit overly glowing, but I think I'm willing to overlook some of the technical problems because I have been so starved for a video game that doesn't have either poo poo plot, boring characters, and/or a stale setting. And the writing is actually good, with humor that doesn't feel utterly alien to a Westerner and dramatic moments that are actually effecting. Updated the fishing list!
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May 3, 2010 01:58
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Dominic White posted:I'm surprised at the number of people who are basically saying 'I bought this game without really knowing what it is, and I am confused and angry now'. It's a Cavia action-RPG a confirmed to be a followup to Drakengard. You don't go into something like that expecting technical mastery or perfectly tuned gameplay. You go in expecting style, atmosphere and that strange vibe that you only get from games that genuinely feel like an individuals vision, rather than something designed to a list of bullet-points. Well with all the comparisons to Drakengard being made it seemed to me the gameplay would be similar: simple and to the point. Kill a couple hundred guys, watch a short cutscene, repeat. I liked it well enough. Then I found out it's more Zelda-esque with fetch quests and exploring, generally less action oriented, which I don't find so appealing. Of course I held off on my purchase until I knew more about the game so I don't know what to say about those people who were more impulsive.
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May 3, 2010 02:04
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ImpAtom posted:People in other threads (and even in this OP) have basically said "No, seriously, this game is really good! I know it's by Cavia but..." ect, ect, ect. People are buying this on recommendation that it is somehow not what they were expecting. But it is good. Not amazing but I would still give it a good. You seem to keep implying people that say the gameplay is good or even decent are somehow wrong or deluding themselves. People have differing opinions all the time! Doesn't mean they're wrong. Really, the thing people should know is that the combat is rather simple. Whether or not that is a big deal differs from person to person.
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May 3, 2010 03:33
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God drat, I hate Cultivating these flowers. I'm at 98% Quest Completion and the only quest I can do now is that stupid one where that lady in Facade wants 10 Peach Moonflower seeds but the method to get them I've found on PS3T.org doesn't even seem to work. Why can't I just buy these at an exorbitant rate?!
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May 3, 2010 03:35
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Megaflare posted:But it is good. Not amazing but I would still give it a good. I honestly can't find anything particularly good to say about any aspect of the gameplay, no. I don't think simple combat is bad inherently, but that doesn't mean it gets a pass just for being simple. The combat is simple and poorly balanced and designed, with either repetitive mash button gameplay and poorly implemented spells which are awkwardly designed and either broken or kinda useless. The platforming is a little awkward and looks really goofy. The sidequests are almost all really bad. The level design varies from genius to awful, sometimes with a few minutes of each other. "Good" and "bad" isn't a either/or scale. There are grey areas, and I think Nier falls really in that area. It isn't bad, but it isn't good either. The good aspects are held back by bad aspects, and while it's possible to get enjoyment out of the game (as I did), that doesn't mean it is something you can recommend to people without a boatload of caveats.
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May 3, 2010 03:46
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Policenaut posted:God drat, I hate Cultivating these flowers. I'm at 98% Quest Completion and the only quest I can do now is that stupid one where that lady in Facade wants 10 Peach Moonflower seeds but the method to get them I've found on PS3T.org doesn't even seem to work. Why can't I just buy these at an exorbitant rate?! I don't know what you are doing, but that worked perfectly for me to get a white moonflower so it WILL get you peaches too. From the trophy guide at xbox360achievement.org : Hopefully you have a garden that is a 3x5 grid by completing the quests mentioned in the Road Map, or this could take longer. The "Legendary Flower" is a White Moonflower Seed, you will receive the achievement as soon as you harvest one. You can buy Red, Blue, and Gold Moonflower Seeds in Seaport or other towns. Here are the possible combination's: Blue + Gold = Indigo Red + Gold = Peach Indigo + Red = Pink Peach + Pink = White (Credit to hadeskrieger and BlackDragon!) Be aware that a successful plant mix is rare, just like finding rare items. Just knowing the correct formula does not guarantee that it will work. The more chances you give yourself, the better odds you are of successfully mixing the plant. Theories on mixing plants: 1. Plant both colors directly next to each other. 2. Plant one color, let it die, harvest the seeds, and plant the next color over top of it. I suggest doing a mix of both. This is an example on how to get White Moonflower Seeds, so replace the colors I use for the formula you need. Get enough Peach and Pink Moonflower Seeds, and plant them as follows: Pe Pi Pe Pi Pe Pi Pe Pi Pe Pi Pe Pi Pe Pi Pe Save the game, advance the system clock by 2 days. Since signing into Xbox Live updates your clock to the current time, make sure you unplug your Ethernet cable or wireless adapter so you do not sign in. Load your game, harvest all seeds and do it in reverse: Pi Pe Pi Pe Pi Pe Pi Pe Pi Pe Pi Pe Pi Pe Pi It shouldn't take too long using this method, but keep repeating until you harvest a white moonflower seed and achievement pops.
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May 3, 2010 03:54
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Overall I think I'd rather have people's fascination with story and characters overwhelm their ability to judge gameplay rather than have good gameplay make them not care about lovely story and characters. I name no (Final Fantasy XIII) examples.
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May 3, 2010 03:54
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Oxxidation posted:Overall I think I'd rather have people's fascination with story and characters overwhelm their ability to judge gameplay rather than have good gameplay make them not care about lovely story and characters. I'm the opposite. I play video games for gameplay, because I find almost all their stories to be ridiculously stupid. If their characters and story are likable or interesting enough to keep my attention, great, but I'm not going to forgive bad/mediocre gameplay for what amounts to an okay fantasy story. Edit: I am, however, also willing to admit games that I enjoy are bad. Just because I liked something doesn't make it objectively well-designed. It's possible to enjoy a game that has broken mechanics or awful design if it grabs you some other way. Lord knows I loved, say, Robot Alchemic Drive, and that game was a disaster of design. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 04:08 on May 3, 2010 |
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May 3, 2010 03:58
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Dantes posted:Sorry for the big black box but since you posted the quest in spoiler, I will answer in kind, just in case. Oh for... On PS3T the guide for this Trophy makes it look like you had to order them like A A A B B B A A A B B B A A A And it wasn't working, so it was pretty drat frustrating. I'll give your pattern a try and see if it works out better. ImpAtom posted:Lord knows I loved, say, Robot Alchemic Drive, and that game was a disaster of design. RAD was fuckin' rad Policenaut fucked around with this message at 04:10 on May 3, 2010 |
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May 3, 2010 03:59
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ImpAtom posted:I honestly can't find anything particularly good to say about any aspect of the gameplay, no. I don't think simple combat is bad inherently, but that doesn't mean it gets a pass just for being simple. The combat is simple and poorly balanced and designed, with either repetitive mash button gameplay and poorly implemented spells which are awkwardly designed and either broken or kinda useless. The platforming is a little awkward and looks really goofy. The sidequests are almost all really bad. The level design varies from genius to awful, sometimes with a few minutes of each other. I don't disagree with all these points and I'm not going to spend a bunch of time arguing with you about what is mostly opinion (for instance, I've found all the spells useful though I definitely had favorites). The only thing I was commenting on was wording like this quote:I think a lot of people are letting their appeal for the storyline and characters overwhelm their problems with the gameplay. and references to an "illusion" which appears to imply that it isn't possible to genuinely enjoy the gameplay or to say you do means you were fooled... or something. Since you had repeated it multiple times I figured I would mention it, that's all.
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May 3, 2010 04:22
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ImpAtom posted:I'm the opposite. I play video games for gameplay, because I find almost all their stories to be ridiculously stupid. This a million times. There's the rare game where the presentation supersedes the gameplay, like Rez, but even in that case it's never a replacement for actual gameplay. The biggest and most recent offender that comes to mind is Heavy Rain. Anyone who seriously enjoys videogames, enjoys actually playing them, cannot seriously call Heavy Rain a good game. This is all way the hell off target but the sentiment that "the experience" can replace actually having fun gameplay is exactly the sort of dangerous bullshit that promulgated all those horrid FMV games during the mid-nineties. I don't begrudge NIER having a story that it wants to tell, but it's gotta do it a better way.
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May 3, 2010 04:33
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Megaflare posted:I don't disagree with all these points and I'm not going to spend a bunch of time arguing with you about what is mostly opinion (for instance, I've found all the spells useful). The only thing I was commenting on was wording like this Games are about illusions. We tend to overlook design decisions or flaws in a game because of how they craft things. This isn't a bad thing. It's a necessary part of design. I point it out in Nier in particular because that is what most of the game is. Using unique ideas and lampshading to cover up awkward gameplay. However, this means that it is a lot more dependent on the illusion then a game with solid underlying mechanics, because if the illusion fails in a sequence, it doesn't have much going for it. Nier is at its best when it is pulling the illusion master thing and not making you think about the mediocre mechanics. It falls apart during sequences like the opening sequence or mansion underground (tons of combat against mooks) or the sidequests where the game isn't making you look in another direction. This is what I meant by "I think a lot of people are letting their appeal for the storyline and characters overwhelm their problems with the gameplay." I don't mean people are not wholeheartedly enjoying it, but rather that it is the kind of game you need to be cautious about recommending because it isn't going to work for everyone. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 04:39 on May 3, 2010 |
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May 3, 2010 04:36
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Got Ending A. I'm pretty confused on a bunch of things If Devola and Popola are robots that are supposed to watch over the world until the disease that wiped out humanity is gone, why are they helping Nier? I get that they want to reclaim Nier's body so the Shadowlord can have his body back, but why even bother telling you about the sealed verses and keys? Why not just give your body back right away? Also, the transition from "we really care about you and your daughter" to total bitch "Die!" was way too sudden (more for Devola). Is there more information about project Gestalt in the other endings? Do they explain what Noir and Weiss actually are (I get the feeling there's more to them than being magic flying books)? Also, who are the other observers (Popola and Devola are 21 and 22, who are the rest? They obviously have meetings pretty often)? I'm curious to know which of these actually get answered.
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May 3, 2010 06:22
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Oh man, getting the gardening trophy in this is gonna be fun, I mean just read this poo poo http://www.ps3trophies.org/forum/nier/48284-nier-trophy-guide-road-map.html#post721431 It's like breeding a gold chocobo all over again.
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May 3, 2010 07:35
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Xythar posted:Oh man, getting the gardening trophy in this is gonna be fun, I mean just read this poo poo I just did this like an hour ago, partly in help with Dantes' big block'o'text up there. It took me barely over an hour to complete, plus you can use those White Moonflower seeds to rake in cash.
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May 3, 2010 07:45
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On the topic of funny statuses, I saw another friend of mine playing this on PSN and I noticed that his status said "I don't think anything else could surprise me at this point". Moments later it changed to "...Okay, that was surprising." Whoever wrote all these probably had some fun
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May 3, 2010 12:22
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Spite posted:Got Ending A. I'm pretty confused on a bunch of things From what I understand Weiss is the program that will initiate the recovery of humanity, Noir is the key to decrypting Weiss. Weiss was in the dark as to his purpose until he came into contact with Noir and it became clear to him.
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May 3, 2010 12:26
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Facade is crazy but so awesome. gently caress that room in the Barren Temple where you can't run or use magic, though. gently caress it so hard. Boss was worth it however. Also, I was getting a major Ocarina of Time vibe from the whole desert area (not to mention the whole "find a bratty kid inside a dungeon who then gets separated from you" thing) so when I beat the boss and the kid showed up again, hoisting his mask above his head with the Zelda pose and sound I just about died laughing. This game rules.
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May 3, 2010 14:06
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Yeah this is a game that's really greater than the sum of its parts. I can totally see where people are coming from when they deconstruct it but when put together it's a really amazing game, and probably one of the best I've played this year.
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May 3, 2010 14:12
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ImpAtom posted:This is what I meant by "I think a lot of people are letting their appeal for the storyline and characters overwhelm their problems with the gameplay." I don't mean people are not wholeheartedly enjoying it, but rather that it is the kind of game you need to be cautious about recommending because it isn't going to work for everyone. Also deconstructing games is so 2009/2010, cause everyone is a game designer now. I remember the days when nobody really did that! Simpler times  As for my own comment, I really like playing this game just to hear the exchanges between Weiss and the main character. I like that they have banter for nearly every sidequest, and they rarely fail to entertain. It's a relaxing game for the most part for me, and I really enjoy the music. I have no problems with the craziness, having enjoyed games like Bayonetta. On the additional side, I won't come out of this game with blisters like I did doing all the crazy combinations in the more fighting-centric action games. Rascyc fucked around with this message at 14:19 on May 3, 2010 |
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May 3, 2010 14:16
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Xythar posted:I really like the gameplay actually, I've fought like 3-4 bosses so far (intro doesn't count) and they were all fun as hell. As I mentioned elsewhere, I wish the bosses in games like Darksiders were this good. Yeah the bosses are fun but in between the bosses the battles are boring, I've taken to rolling around and only using Dark Hand to one-shot enemies because it's more fun than mashing Square. Also killing wildlife by drifting into it with a boar (you actually drift) I will say this though, if you are looking primarily for gameplay don't play this. Play Bayonetta and Demon's Souls, those were amazing games that pulled off their gameplay elements very well. If you want super fancy graphics and an original RPG battle system play FF13. This game is primarily about "look at this weird poo poo" with entertaining characters and a good (so far) story. I've laughed at the dialogue a lot because it was written to be funny, not because it was horrible which is a nice change
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May 3, 2010 14:25
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It's not like the game makes you fight wave after wave of enemies for half an hour just to get to the next boss, though. There honestly hasn't been all that much combat so far compared to your average brawler like God of War or even Darksiders. I'm playing it on Easy though and that probably helps, regular enemies go down pretty fast while bosses are still a satisfying challenge.
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May 3, 2010 14:27
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Yeah that's true, if you don't want to fight enemies you really don't have to for the most part, there's usually no penalty for just running past a bunch of monsters and you don't have to do the sidequests, you can basically skip straight to story.
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May 3, 2010 14:36
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The Forest of Myth is brilliant. That was done so well.
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May 3, 2010 15:04
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Rascyc posted:You can say this about nearly every game released in the past four years. Or, switch some nouns around to get the same effect for other games. Eh. To clarify further: If someone was looking for a certain kind of game, I'd feel comfortable recommending things. Sure, if I recommended Batman: Arkham Asylum to someone looking for an action/adventure game, they might not like it, but there's at least a reasonable chance they would get enjoyment out of it, even if they don't enjoy Batman. With Nier, I don't think you can have that confidence unless it's a very personal recommendation, and even then I think it's possible for something to sour the game for a person a lot easier.
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May 3, 2010 15:14
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I recommend games that I like. I have no way of knowing what other people like so I don't consider it my job to tailor my recommendations to people unless I know them very well. They can read the facts and decide for themselves.
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May 3, 2010 15:38
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Xythar posted:I recommend games that I like. I have no way of knowing what other people like so I don't consider it my job to tailor my recommendations to people unless I know them very well. They can read the facts and decide for themselves. And you recommend Star Ocean 4! See what horror you've wrought, Xythar? 
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May 3, 2010 15:44
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ImpAtom posted:And you recommend Star Ocean 4! See what horror you've wrought, Xythar? I have yet to see anyone make a convincing argument as to why SO4 is a bad game, every complaint I hear about it is just anime anime anime blah blah blah. You yourself said that story comes secondary to gameplay, and SO4 even provides you with convenient summaries when you skip all the cutscenes.
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May 3, 2010 16:58
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Anyone found what the weapon weight do ? Is it just speed ? Is there an influence on your guard crush ability ?
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May 3, 2010 18:26
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Syvere posted:I have a feeling you're trying to fish in the wrong place. You need to go to the beach where there are a dozen of seals near the lighthouse. And no matter what the game says you need to pull the stick BACK and then slightly do BACK-RIGHT or BACK-LEFT motion as the fish moves. And remember to press X only once to start reeling and reveal the fish's HP. Well thanks for this, I basically came to this thread to say that fishing in Nier is the most poorly explained piece of poo poo contrivance I have seen in a while. Maybe now that a third party actually explained the mechanics I can get it done. EDIT: Jesus gently caress, I guess when the game says "hey go right down to the beach next to me and fish up your shaman fish" it actually meant the beach a mile away. Nice of the game to explain things like fishing levels and such! ImpAtom posted:"Good" and "bad" isn't a either/or scale. There are grey areas, and I think Nier falls really in that area. It isn't bad, but it isn't good either. The good aspects are held back by bad aspects, and while it's possible to get enjoyment out of the game (as I did), that doesn't mean it is something you can recommend to people without a boatload of caveats. I realize I'm at the beginning of the game still, but so far I'd agree with you. This is a game caveats were designed for. But still, there's something charming about it... Shaman Tank Spec fucked around with this message at 18:58 on May 3, 2010 |
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May 3, 2010 18:38
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I love NIER status updates. I hope some aspie with their own Wikia is transcribing all of these because I'd love to read them all later. "NIER Rules, rules, rules, rules! What a pain in the [SPOILER]!"
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May 3, 2010 21:27
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Xythar posted:I have yet to see anyone make a convincing argument as to why SO4 is a bad game, every complaint I hear about it is just anime anime anime blah blah blah. You yourself said that story comes secondary to gameplay, and SO4 even provides you with convenient summaries when you skip all the cutscenes. Welch.
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May 3, 2010 21:34
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Der Shovel posted:EDIT: Jesus gently caress, I guess when the game says "hey go right down to the beach next to me and fish up your shaman fish" it actually meant the beach a mile away. Nice of the game to explain things like fishing levels and such! To be fair, he only says "the beach" and there is a giant red x on your map that you, I and apparently a ton of people decided to not look at. Obviously there is a deficiency here or so many people wouldn't make the same mistake though.
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May 3, 2010 22:58
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UselessLurker posted:Welch. Not a gameplay complaint. And according to the game I am the World's Biggest Welch Fan so I will have to take issue with that  Megaflare posted:To be fair, he only says "the beach" and there is a giant red x on your map that you, I and apparently a ton of people decided to not look at. Obviously there is a deficiency here or so many people wouldn't make the same mistake though. Yeah as it turned out that was the mistake I was making too. Policenaut posted:I love NIER status updates. I hope some aspie with their own Wikia is transcribing all of these because I'd love to read them all later. Hahaha is [SPOILER] really a part of the quote, that is awesome Xythar fucked around with this message at 23:34 on May 3, 2010 |
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May 3, 2010 23:32
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Xythar posted:Facade is crazy but so awesome. Just for note, you can't run but you can so dodge roll directly across the room.
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May 3, 2010 23:38
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Xythar posted:Hahaha is [SPOILER] really a part of the quote, that is awesome It seriously was, saw a friend playing the game around the first visit to Facade and it made me laugh. It was great, I wonder what the ones for the end of the game are like. Probably like "[SPOILER] [SPOILER] is [SPOILER]?!"
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May 3, 2010 23:39
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Policenaut posted:It seriously was, saw a friend playing the game around the first visit to Facade and it made me laugh. It was great, I wonder what the ones for the end of the game are like. Probably like "[SPOILER] [SPOILER] is [SPOILER]?!" I bet there they were just using it because you probably can't swear in game status messages. YOTC posted:Just for note, you can't run but you can so dodge roll directly across the room. Yeah that's how I managed in the end (that and blocking) but it's still a pain in the rear end, especially when you accidentally nudge the stick a little too hard.
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May 3, 2010 23:41
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