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Solomon Grundy posted:Just wait until you graduate and have a job and there is no celebrating again ever because there is always something billable that you could be doing instead. Plaintiffs' attorneys celebrate when you win because you finally get to eat. Practicing's actually kind of fun if you're a contrarian and love to yell "BULLSHIT" at everything served across your desk. At least for the first year. G-Mawwwwwww fucked around with this message at 01:20 on May 9, 2010 |
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May 9, 2010 01:16
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IrritationX posted:That would be me.
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May 9, 2010 01:28
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Above the Law posted:86. Northeastern: Practical legal experience, and you can’t walk down Landsdowne Street without stumbling into nubile co-eds from one of the area’s 8 million colleges. Ainsley!!!!
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May 9, 2010 02:11
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So I've been accepted into Pace, and I'm awaiting a second letter to see if I got any aid or scholarship money. I might get a little, since I got a merit from New York Law and a few other T3s. For this argument, let's assume I get like $10-15k. My #1 is Rutgers and #2 is Seton. I'm due for a response any day now, and my friend with a significantly lower LSAT got in, so I'm still positive. Rutgers, because of it's rank and low price, I'm pretty sure I'm going there if I get in regardless of what I get elsewhere. Assume I get rejected from Rutgers, but get into Seton, which is like $45k a year in tuition. If there's a $15-20k difference in tuition, is it worth losing the benefit of going to a more prestigious school like Seton to take the money?? Although I have an interest in land use and environmental law (pace has two big progrmas) I always figured that Seton or Rutgers would be better, but some practicing lawyers have told me to consider Pace if I get an award over those schools
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May 9, 2010 02:40
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THE MACHO MAN posted:more prestigious school like Seton Seton isn't prestigious in any way shape or form. This is harsh but you need to be aware that anytime someone sees you went there you will need a stellar GPA to avoid getting your resume immediately binned.
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May 9, 2010 02:44
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evilweasel posted:Seton isn't prestigious in any way shape or form. This is harsh but you need to be aware that anytime someone sees you went there you will need a stellar GPA to avoid getting your resume immediately binned. Nah, not harsh at all. I'd rather get the real answers. I was under the impression that it's not great, but it's certainly a good school. I don't think I wrote it before, but my goal is to work in the tri-state area if that impacts the answers at all Is Rutgers looked upon favorably at all or what?? I thought Rutgers and Seton were similarly ranked
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May 9, 2010 02:51
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THE MACHO MAN posted:So I've been accepted into Pace, and I'm awaiting a second letter to see if I got any aid or scholarship money. I might get a little, since I got a merit from New York Law and a few other T3s. For this argument, let's assume I get like $10-15k. Wow first troll of the thread.
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May 9, 2010 02:52
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nm posted:California: Not trying to be a dick, but I would love to see some actual job postings that reflect these numbers. The DA and PD numbers you note are particularly unbelieveable.
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May 9, 2010 02:53
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djs622 posted:Wow first troll of the thread. The title is the troll (it is unreasonably optimistic)
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May 9, 2010 02:53
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11th hour in the library, gonna be here until 2 
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May 9, 2010 03:22
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THE MACHO MAN posted:Nah, not harsh at all. I'd rather get the real answers. I was under the impression that it's not great, but it's certainly a good school. I don't think I wrote it before, but my goal is to work in the tri-state area if that impacts the answers at all The tri-state area doing what? Whatever it is you want to do, is it really worth 160k in debt? Haha, I just looked up Rutgers, I had no idea it was a public school. If you don't get in at Rutgers, you probably shouldn't go to law school. I'm not really sure how to justify spending 100k+ on tuition alone at one of those other schools.
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May 9, 2010 03:22
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djs622 posted:Wow first troll of the thread. I like how when people come into the law school thread expressing a desire to go to law school we suspect that they're trolls i believe that says something about law school
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May 9, 2010 03:32
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BigHead posted:Edit: also, other graduating 3Ls, what percentage of your class is so disinterested in graduating law school that they refuse to walk? I wouldn't say 1/4 of my class isn't walking, but it's pretty darn close.
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May 9, 2010 03:49
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HiddenReplaced posted:The tri-state area doing what? Whatever it is you want to do, is it really worth 160k in debt? Ok this is pretty much what I was asking thanks Ainsley McTree posted:I like how when people come into the law school thread expressing a desire to go to law school we suspect that they're trolls almost every single lawyer and law student I know has said to not go because of the insane debt and limited chances for high pay when coming out. The cost of Rutgers is pretty much the main reason I want to go there... decent enough school without soul crushing debt. I just want a drat answer so I can just decide if I'm going to go already 
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May 9, 2010 03:49
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Elotana posted:There's a law-school-only ceremony that I plan on attending and my parents are driving up for, but a cap and gown rental for JDs was like $500 or something ludicrous like that, and UT is a huge loving university, so I have zero interest in another huge-rear end graduation. Holy poo poo. I think ours were $80.
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May 9, 2010 03:52
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THE MACHO MAN posted:Ok this is pretty much what I was asking thanks i go to a TTT for free and it still feels like a waste, cant imagine what paying for it would be like
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May 9, 2010 03:53
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zzyzx posted:Holy poo poo. I think ours were $80. $500 is insane. I don't actually remember paying any money for the gown, I think it might have been free. We paid a $50 deposit for the tams, but we got it back if we returned them (which made the hat-tossing at the end very tense)
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May 9, 2010 04:03
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Elotana posted:There's a law-school-only ceremony that I plan on attending and my parents are driving up for, but a cap and gown rental for JDs was like $500 or something ludicrous like that, and UT is a huge loving university, so I have zero interest in another huge-rear end graduation. Cap and gown...rental? You don't get to keep it? You pay $500 and you don't get to keep it?
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May 9, 2010 04:04
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THE MACHO MAN posted:Ok this is pretty much what I was asking thanks http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dYRJLr90vSA Seriously though, read OP and reassess.
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May 9, 2010 04:06
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The Arsteia posted:i go to a TTT for free and it still feels like a waste, cant imagine what paying for it would be like What year are you and do you feel it's a waste? Poor job prospects or what? sigmachiev posted:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dYRJLr90vSA hahaha Yeah I just finished reading the op and posted. It's definitely informative. One of my good friends just graduated from upenn and has been saying a lot of this stuff to me and I've been considering it. I just think it's good to get more input. THE MACHO MAN fucked around with this message at 04:10 on May 9, 2010 |
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May 9, 2010 04:07
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Maybe I misheard someone and they were talking about the deposit, who knows. Never been interested in the big graduation ceremony though.
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May 9, 2010 04:20
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THE MACHO MAN posted:I just want a drat answer so I can just decide if I'm going to go already Is anything we say really going to convince you *not* to go? I went to Loyola Chicago, almost exactly the same USNWR rank as Rutgers and in probably the second or third largest legal market in the country. Like Rutgers, Loyola has been called a "strong regional school". I was just sworn in to practice law on Thursday. At the swearing in, I saw about a half-dozen classmates; winter grads, February bar exam, so a small sample size, to be sure. Still, not a single one of them, myself included, has secured legal employment. I got lucky as gently caress and was selected for JAG, but that doesn't start for nearly a year and certainly isn't a career path most have in mind when considering law school. I just looked at my Facebook for reference. I have ~40 Facebook friends that are law school classmates, class of '09 or '10. Of those, 4 have jobs at medium-large law firms, one is a PD in California, one lucked into Doc Review temp work, 2 are current/future JAG, 1 works as a paralegal in the firm that swore up and down they'd make her an attorney when she finished law school and passed the bar. EVERY SINGLE OTHER PERSON is unemployed or working in some job completely unrelated to law including (but not necessarily limited to) Clerk at Whole Foods, Bartender (2), Landscaper, and "Sales". Nothing wrong with those jobs at all, as long as you haven't wasted three years of your life and several dozen G's to get there. I know how you feel, I was you in Spring 2006. Elated that a few of the schools I had chosen accepted me, weighing my options, figuring out who would give me the most bang for my buck, who was more "prestigious". It was an exciting time. But the advice I'm giving you now applied to me then as well and at least then I had the economy in my favor. Don't go unless the whole thing is paid for, or you're going to be sorry. I can virtually guarantee it. e: And for the record, nobody is going to pay you to do "environmental law", except huge corporations might if you help them destroy it. But then again they usually only want people who've done a few years at a Vault firm and have a decent pedigree. Rutgers is not that pedigree. You'll be hustling outside the courtroom for misdemeanor defense and slip-and-falls, and that's IF you have the brass balls and the malpractice insurance to get out there on your own. Defleshed fucked around with this message at 04:26 on May 9, 2010 |
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May 9, 2010 04:23
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THE MACHO MAN posted:What year are you and do you feel it's a waste? Poor job prospects or what? im a 1L. Job prospects are pretty poor right now up here (the Cities (although not as bad as elsewhere in the country apparently)) so its sort of discouraging to know that my degree will have really limited application. i'm applying for transfer to Minnesota and Wisconsin at the moment (Wisconsin already promised me a seat), and ive planned to since i decided to go here. if you dont mind spending a year at a school that you plan to leave after a year, then maybe think long and hard about going. if you plan on going and staying: pretty much dont
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May 9, 2010 04:26
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THE MACHO MAN posted:So I've been accepted into Pace, and I'm awaiting a second letter to see if I got any aid or scholarship money. I might get a little, since I got a merit from New York Law and a few other T3s. For this argument, let's assume I get like $10-15k. Let's start with your numbers. What are they?
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May 9, 2010 04:27
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I went to a party last night where two sophmores got really excited when I mentioned I was a law student. They indicated that they wanted to go to law school and started crowding really close to me. Before long they were fawning over me, touching me - laughing at jokes that weren't funny. I had both of them in the palm of my hand. I tried to give them the spiel about how you shouldn't go to law school but all that I could see in their eyes was lust, for the prestige, for the 'big money,' for me. I could have taken them right there at the party and neither one of them would have objected. Yeah, you could say that law school was a good investment  They were both dudes, dating each other
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May 9, 2010 04:34
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JudicialRestraints posted:I went to a party last night where two sophmores got really excited when I mentioned I was a law student. They indicated that they wanted to go to law school and started crowding really close to me. Before long they were fawning over me, touching me - laughing at jokes that weren't funny. I had both of them in the palm of my hand. yeah if you've never impressed a sexy coed with tales of law school well then go right on back to gbs. imo the rest of the time just tell people you're a grad student 
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May 9, 2010 04:39
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A friend of a friend I had just met made that "oooh" sound and her eyes got wider when it came up that I was a law student and then everyone in the room made fun of her for it.
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May 9, 2010 04:40
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Yall should try living in DC where literally every person under age 30 is a law student and every person over age 30 is a lawyer
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May 9, 2010 04:42
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JudicialRestraints posted:I went to a party last night where two sophmores got really excited when I mentioned I was a law student. They indicated that they wanted to go to law school and started crowding really close to me. Before long they were fawning over me, touching me - laughing at jokes that weren't funny. I had both of them in the palm of my hand. what the gently caress why didn't you take them home and fu.....oh
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May 9, 2010 04:45
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Tetrix posted:what the gently caress why didn't you take them home and fu.....oh blowjob for summary buttfuck
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May 9, 2010 05:13
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mushi posted:Thanks. This post is super helpful and I might have a few more questions for you. If you don't mind me asking, what jurisdiction do you work in? I just got admitted recently, but yeah, pro se representation is (as far as I know) what Legal Aid does in Oregon. I'm planning on helping with the bankruptcy clinic through legal aid, but that is all full scale representation on a volunteer basis. At a Q&A, the attorneys who work the clinic said a few times that their private bankruptcy clients look like millionaires compared to the people who are taken in by the pro se clinic. Yikes. I'll give you whatever information I can. I'm not currently working, just finishing a graduate program in court administration at the University of Denver law school. I'm applying for court clerk/administrator positions here in Colorado, as well as in the northwest--hopefully back to Oregon, where I'm from. But pro se litigants and case flow management are two of my pet projects, because they work so well together. I know exactly how it goes with unrepresented folks when they go to bankruptcy court. One day in the bankruptcy court here in Denver was all it took to make me want to do as much as I could to get them the help they need. Not only for their sake, but the system's.
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May 9, 2010 05:21
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The Arsteia posted:i go to a TTT for free and it still feels like a waste, cant imagine what paying for it would be like I heaaaaarrrrddddddd that I paid for the first year like a chump too
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May 9, 2010 05:46
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Paying for the privilege of being overqualified to work at starbucks is for chumps, yeah
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May 9, 2010 06:50
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Draile posted:Well, a starting position in a NYC DA's office pays about 50-54k depending on borough. As expensive as SF is I doubt cost of living is nearly double New York's. You'll make that or more in east jesus nowhere, CA where you can buy a palace for $250k. So yeah, don't move to New York. (Don't move to CA either, no jobs). Hell, Minneapolis pays $50ishk out of LS. stingray1381 posted:Not trying to be a dick, but I would love to see some actual job postings that reflect these numbers. The DA and PD numbers you note are particularly unbelieveable. http://www.jobaps.com/SF/specs/classspecdisplay.asp?ClassNumber=8177&R1=undefined&R3=undefined Yes, that is Attorney I. There is a catch: It isn'tt civil service (at will, which can be bad if you're expensive and it is crunch time), and it isn't exactly easy to get in. Sacramento PD just bumped starting salaries to $88k, but that is all in theory as they are not hiring (in fct, they are laying off). Santa Clara DA has an opening starting at $92k -- entry level: http://www.governmentjobs.com/view_job.cfm?JobID=225587&hit_count=Yes& Worth noting: DA and PD are paid the same in CA, so do county council though an "entry-level" county council job generally requires experience. Also worth noting if you actually get any of these jobs you've worked for free for a bit somewhere in CA. nm fucked around with this message at 09:59 on May 9, 2010 |
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May 9, 2010 09:49
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Has there been a change in the qualifications for federal government jobs? I remember GS-11 jobs being entry level, requiring only a J.D. Now whenever I see a GS-11 job it requires either (1) one year of experience, or (2) top 1/3 class or law review membership to qualify. GS-12 now requires two years' experience, but I remember it as having required only one.
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May 9, 2010 15:34
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THE MACHO MAN posted:What year are you and do you feel it's a waste? Poor job prospects or what? trying to justify why the OP doesn't apply to you != "considering"
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May 9, 2010 15:42
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Blakkout posted:The only thing better than celebrating the end of the year with finals, is celebrating the end of finals with a two week journal petition. I think this is "soul crushing" to a T. Blakkout, you're at U. Minn, right? While the typing and bluebooking is unavoidably sucky, I found that reading the source materials, developing arguments, and editing the paper is a lot less soul-crushing when you're sitting by Lake Calhoun, ogling joggers and seeing the sun. If you want any advice, let me know. I wrote on and later graded petitions.
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May 9, 2010 18:53
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JudicialRestraints, what do you plan on doing after graduation?
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May 9, 2010 18:53
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Draile posted:Has there been a change in the qualifications for federal government jobs? I remember GS-11 jobs being entry level, requiring only a J.D. Now whenever I see a GS-11 job it requires either (1) one year of experience, or (2) top 1/3 class or law review membership to qualify. GS-12 now requires two years' experience, but I remember it as having required only one. I was recently told (by the USPTO) that qualification at GS-11 requires either one year of specialized experience or a Ph.D., and that a J.D. alone will only qualify a candidate for GS-9.
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May 9, 2010 19:09
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Ersatz posted:I was recently told (by the USPTO) that qualification at GS-11 requires either one year of specialized experience or a Ph.D., and that a J.D. alone will only qualify a candidate for GS-9. This is accurate, except I think you need above a 3.0 for your JD to get GS-9, otherwise GS-7. Then again, I'm a GS-12 after two and a half years, so it's not like promotion comes slowly when working at the fed.
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May 9, 2010 19:21
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