Lawyer & Law School Megathread #12: Started Out Barrister, Ended Up Barista

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Ask/Tell > Business, Finance, and Careers > Lawyer & Law School Megathread #12: Started Out Barrister, Ended Up Barista

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Phil Moscowitz: Feb 19, 2007; If blood be the price of admiralty,
Lord God, we ha' paid in full!

builds character posted:

This is important.

It's so funny to imagine one of the partners at my firm saying that

# ? May 7, 2010 16:13

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# ? Apr 29, 2024 12:26

J Miracle: Mar 25, 2010; It took 32 years, but I finally figured out push-ups!

Check out the poo poo you have to go through for an unpaid, uncredited internship with the 36th Circuit in Detroit

The site requires a resume, cover letter, writing sample (3-5 pages MAXIMUM), and 3 references (a list of references containing name, title, employer name, address, phone number and e-mail address if you have it). Additionally, the court requires an OFFICIAL transcript. This means you will need to request it from the Registrar's office, pay for it, and have it sent directly to the site. The address is provided below.

The Court's interview process is as follows: Upon receipt of materials, you will meet with XXXXXX the Court Administrator. She will then send you to HR to be fingerprinted and drug tested. That process takes about 2 weeks. Assuming you meet those requirements, you will interview with a judge.

Attire: Other than single earrings in each ear, no body piercings may be visible. ALL tattoos must be covered. They have a specific summer dress code which she did not provide but said women who wear skirts above the knee must wear nylons.

Pre-interview fingerprinting and drug testing? Restrictive summer dress code? Sign me up!

# ? May 7, 2010 16:22

Ainsley McTree: Feb 19, 2004

It is Detroit...

# ? May 7, 2010 16:28

J Miracle: Mar 25, 2010; It took 32 years, but I finally figured out push-ups!

They just seem pretty far up their own rear end for a traffic, DUI, and misdemeanor court

# ? May 7, 2010 16:31

Linguica: Jul 13, 2000; You're already dead

I did some math (multiplying % of article III clerkships by number of students in the class) and the USNWR clerkship numbers suggest that there are approx. 1457 Article III clerkships available in a year. Does that sound correct to anyone

edit: "There are currently 875 authorized Article III judgeships." So about 2 clerks per judge?

Linguica fucked around with this message at 16:51 on May 7, 2010

# ? May 7, 2010 16:46

IrritationX: May 5, 2004; Bitch, what you don't know about me I can just about squeeze in the Grand fucking Canyon.

Linguica posted:

I did some math (multiplying % of article III clerkships by number of students in the class) and the USNWR clerkship numbers suggest that there are approx. 1457 Article III clerkships available in a year. Does that sound correct to anyone

edit: "There are currently 875 authorized Article III judgeships." So about 2 clerks per judge?

That might even be a little conservative. The Article III judges here in Denver all have two, and three isn't unheard of.

# ? May 7, 2010 16:59

Green Crayons: Apr 2, 2009

Linguica posted:

edit: "There are currently 875 authorized Article III judgeships." So about 2 clerks per judge?

Makes sense. Every judge has at least one, the important judges get two (or more if they're super special, I guess). At least, that's how I've seen it work in district court down here.

Using the USNWR numbers with the average class size as found on W&M's website, about 8 students per year go from W&M to an Article III clerkship. Can I be one of those lucky few? No.

Will I build up a secret hope throughout my LS career that I can achieve this coveted and nearly-impossible dream, only to have it all come crashing down in a cacophony of binge drinking and bitter jobless tears? Oh, yes. I do believe so.

e:

IrritationX posted:

That might even be a little conservative. The Article III judges here in Denver all have two, and three isn't unheard of.

District Court in SC compensates for your clerk shenanigans. Granted, my sample size is only Charleston, so I don't know what the other cities' judges have in terms of clerks - but I would imagine only Columbia or maybe Greenville would have a larger clerk:judge ratio than Charleston.

Green Crayons fucked around with this message at 17:05 on May 7, 2010

# ? May 7, 2010 17:00

Kumo: Jul 31, 2004

I'm taking the July Bar Exam.

Should I complain here, or start up a new thread?

# ? May 7, 2010 17:48

WaveLength: Nov 22, 2006; Feel the beat

All of this info seems geared towards those looking to practice law in the States. Is it safe to assume the situation is basically the same in Canada? I've been told that the "glut" of lawyers in the market isn't nearly as severe up here as it is in the US, but I don't know if that's true or not.

# ? May 7, 2010 18:11

yadayadayada: Dec 5, 2004; Dodgers Baseball America #1 Embarrassment Prospect

Mookie probably knows a lot more re: number of clerks per judge, but I believe COA judges get 4 clerks, district court judges get 3 positions they can fill, though usually they will have 2 clerks and 1 office secretary doing administrative poo poo.

# ? May 7, 2010 18:29

The Arsteia: Nov 17, 2008

conlaw exam in an hour and a half. i know my mccolloch. i know my dole. i know my pike and darby and jones & laughlin and lee optical, and my CCCCGG-MPLS, that is to say corfield v coryell, carolene, cruzan, casey, glucksberg, griswald, meyer, poe v ullman, lawrence, and saenz. lets. *chk chk* do this.

# ? May 7, 2010 18:33

Tetrix: Aug 24, 2002

The Arsteia posted:

conlaw exam in an hour and a half. i know my mccolloch. i know my dole. i know my pike and darby and jones & laughlin and lee optical, and my CCCCGG-MPLS, that is to say corfield v coryell, carolene, cruzan, casey, glucksberg, griswald, meyer, poe v ullman, lawrence, and saenz. lets. *chk chk* do this.

# ? May 7, 2010 18:39

WhiskeyJuvenile: Feb 15, 2002; by Nyc_Tattoo

I'm still trying to get off my rear end and apply to a Federal Circuit clerkship (as long as I can go as a GS-13)

# ? May 7, 2010 18:40

JudicialRestraints: Oct 26, 2007; Are you a LAWYER? Because I'll have you know I got GOOD GRADES in LAW SCHOOL last semester. Don't even try to argue THE LAW with me.

The Arsteia posted:

conlaw exam in an hour and a half. i know my mccolloch. i know my dole. i know my pike and darby and jones & laughlin and lee optical, and my CCCCGG-MPLS, that is to say corfield v coryell, carolene, cruzan, casey, glucksberg, griswald, meyer, poe v ullman, lawrence, and saenz. lets. *chk chk* do this.

Lawrence? Since when is 'conlaw' 'buttsex law'

# ? May 7, 2010 18:46

TheBestDeception: Nov 28, 2007

WaveLength posted:

All of this info seems geared towards those looking to practice law in the States. Is it safe to assume the situation is basically the same in Canada? I've been told that the "glut" of lawyers in the market isn't nearly as severe up here as it is in the US, but I don't know if that's true or not.

This thread is not long at all and this question has already been answered (on the first page no less)

# ? May 7, 2010 18:58

J Miracle: Mar 25, 2010; It took 32 years, but I finally figured out push-ups!

JudicialRestraints posted:

Lawrence? Since when is 'conlaw' 'buttsex law'

DUDE individual rights and stuff is conlaw I know you had a conlaw class that talked about federalism and poo poo but there's more to the area, look in your course guide there's probably a Conlaw II or something

# ? May 7, 2010 19:11

WaveLength: Nov 22, 2006; Feel the beat

TheBestDeception posted:

This thread is not long at all and this question has already been answered (on the first page no less)

Oops. I'm kinda running on low sleep right now. Sorry about that!

# ? May 7, 2010 19:13

G-Mawwwwwww: Jan 31, 2003; My LPth are Hot Garbage; Biscuit Hider

JudicialRestraints posted:

Lawrence? Since when is 'conlaw' 'buttsex law'

ALL law is buttsex law.

# ? May 7, 2010 19:23

Elotana: Dec 12, 2003; and i'm putting it all on the goddamn expense account

just two floating exams left woo

# ? May 7, 2010 19:30

Aschlafly: Jan 5, 2004; I identify as smart.
(But that doesn't make it so...)

Little update from the last thread:

3.75/180 with three science majors, and I am officially... waitlisted at Harvard! Yay! I didn't really want to go very badly, anyway. I guess it's back to having panic attacks and figuring out what to do with my life!

# ? May 7, 2010 19:36

Draile: May 6, 2004; forlorn llama

When did you apply?

# ? May 7, 2010 19:39

Ersatz: Sep 17, 2005

Aschlafly posted:

3.75/180 with three science majors, and I am officially... waitlisted at Harvard! Yay! I didn't really want to go very badly, anyway. I guess it's back to having panic attacks and figuring out what to do with my life!

That sucks. In retrospect, I wish I had tried to become a math teacher instead of an attorney. If you have no idea what to do with your life and want to do something constructive, maybe try teaching high school science?

Or just wait and reapply. I wouldn't be shocked if you could pull off a full ride at a T14.

# ? May 7, 2010 19:44

JudicialRestraints: Oct 26, 2007; Are you a LAWYER? Because I'll have you know I got GOOD GRADES in LAW SCHOOL last semester. Don't even try to argue THE LAW with me.

J Miracle posted:

DUDE individual rights and stuff is conlaw I know you had a conlaw class that talked about federalism and poo poo but there's more to the area, look in your course guide there's probably a Conlaw II or something

I've actually taken a couple classes on first amendment law - federalism and separation of powers is just cooler

# ? May 7, 2010 19:55

HiddenReplaced: Apr 21, 2007; Yeah...
it's wanking time.

Defleshed posted:

How did you like the class? I wish we'd had one at Loyola. I ended up just doing a lot of papers on military aspects of whatever law we were studying in my electives.

It has been my favorite class in law school. Although next semester I'm taking National Security which will be co-taught by the professor I had Military Justice with (retired 1 star) and the DJAG of the AF, who is retiring in June. Will be just as awesome or more awesome.

# ? May 7, 2010 20:07

G-Mawwwwwww: Jan 31, 2003; My LPth are Hot Garbage; Biscuit Hider

Aschlafly posted:

Little update from the last thread:

3.75/180 with three science majors, and I am officially... waitlisted at Harvard! Yay! I didn't really want to go very badly, anyway. I guess it's back to having panic attacks and figuring out what to do with my life!

Go teach English for a year then reapply.

Edit: to Yale.

# ? May 7, 2010 20:09

TheBestDeception: Nov 28, 2007

Via Email: Job Alert!

quote:

TO: JD Students

FROM: Judge XX

************************

If you are in the neighborhood this summer working as a research assistant or studying for the bar and would like to supplement your income, Judge XX is looking for a sitter for her 10-year old son. During May until mid-June, he is in school and the job entails picking him up at 3:30 four days a week and 5:30 one day a week, Monday through Friday, and staying with him until sometime between 6:00 and 7:30. In the month of July he is at camp, and the hours would begin around 4:30, when he gets home. There will also be some full days during the month of June that she could use a sitter, if you are available. One week in June she will not need a sitter, since the family will be away.

The days and hours are somewhat flexible, so if you needed to leave early one or two days a week because of another job or a bar review class, that could probably be worked out. There will also be hours available in August. The rate is $20/hour.

If you are interested, please call Judge XX at [Number]

# ? May 7, 2010 20:15

Incredulous Red: Mar 25, 2008

TheBestDeception posted:

Via Email: Job Alert!

State judge or Federal? Because, you know, networking. . .

# ? May 7, 2010 20:20

evilweasel: Aug 24, 2002

TheBestDeception posted:

Via Email: Job Alert!

Hahaha I just got that and was also thinking 'seriously what the hell'.

Makes sense for 3l's studying for the bar I suppose though.

# ? May 7, 2010 20:22

TheBestDeception: Nov 28, 2007

Federal, but still. The e-mail is catchy with a "Judge XX - Job" title, and only opening it up reveals it is a babbysitting job. With the combination of lower than normal employment figures + desire to network, she could easily get swamped with highly-qualified applicants.

# ? May 7, 2010 20:29

J Miracle: Mar 25, 2010; It took 32 years, but I finally figured out push-ups!

I would do it and I would kiss that judge's rear end, I mean like baking cookies and cleaning the bathroom and poo poo. I would study the books she has in the house and read them so I could have conversations with her about them, subliminating all of my own opinions and agreeing with everything she said like a pathetic toady

# ? May 7, 2010 20:44

CmdrSmirnoff: Oct 27, 2005; happy happy happy happy happy happy happy happy happy

J Miracle posted:

I would do it and I would kiss that judge's rear end, I mean like baking cookies and cleaning the bathroom and poo poo. I would study the books she has in the house and read them so I could have conversations with her about them, subliminating all of my own opinions and agreeing with everything she said like a pathetic toady

More likely it'll all end up like Man of Fire.

On the plus side you'd be dead.

# ? May 7, 2010 21:00

Ani: Jun 15, 2001; illum non populi fasces, non purpura regum / flexit et infidos agitans discordia fratres

Aschlafly posted:

Little update from the last thread:

3.75/180 with three science majors, and I am officially... waitlisted at Harvard! Yay! I didn't really want to go very badly, anyway. I guess it's back to having panic attacks and figuring out what to do with my life!

That sucks. If it helps (it won't) your stats are straight-up better than mine on every metric.

# ? May 7, 2010 21:06

JudicialRestraints: Oct 26, 2007; Are you a LAWYER? Because I'll have you know I got GOOD GRADES in LAW SCHOOL last semester. Don't even try to argue THE LAW with me.

Professor posted:

Dear Class:

It is unlikely that you are thinking about Con Law AND I HAVE ONLY GRADED A SMALL PERCENTAGE OF YOUR EXAMS SO FAR- but I want to share with you an initial observation concerning the first question, in the hopes that it will help you with Con Law� and in writing your other exams.

It concerns question 1.

The question pertained to a law that provides for civil commitments, initiated after the completions of one�s sentence. I asked you to address 3 potential constitutional problems relating to:

1) the commerce clause

2) the necessary and proper clause and

3) the 10th Amendment.

So far, most of the exams I have read analyze the law that provided for the original conviction- not the law that provides for civil commitment. WRONG LAW!!

The original conviction clearly refers to a law which punishes receiving child porn via interstate commerce. I don�t think there is much questions that this satisfies the commerce clause (unless you want to argue it is over broad in that it coves porn not generated as a business). That is not the statute I asked you to analyze.! The facts of the exam explain that the statute in question provides for institutionalization of persons who are determined to be sexually dangerous and suffering from mental illness at the time of release.

I specifically said: �As you can see, the required finding, that one suffers from mental illness and would have serious difficulty in refraining from sexually violent conduct or child molestation if released, makes no mention of where such conduct might occur, or whether interstate or international activities are involved.�

Thus under this law, there is no activity, much less economic activity, and there is no requirement to suggest that the activity would be other than local.

Thus, I expected you to focus on whether such legislation was authorized under the commerce clause� and so far most of you have not discussed the key facts that make this a substantial issue.

The commerce clause connection is dubious.

That brings us to the next issue: necessary and proper clause.

This is where you should be arguing that the commitment provision is but an add-on, that builds some additional consequences that begins with a valid commerce clause conviction- and from there you would discuss the scope of �necessary and proper� as to whether it broadens Congress� legislative powers, or add nothing to the Constitution.

I haven�t seen this connection in your exams yet either.

The good new is, I am grading under the law school curve. But I want to remind you that this is a typical exam questions in that I am asking you to explain the law in the context of specific facts. To do a good job you have to spend time reviewing the question carefully to make sure you are answering what is asked.

My advice: slow down and think before you start writing to make sure you are being responsive to the question.

Good luck and have a great summer.

Awesome, looks like the curve is nice and low already.

Thank god for illiteracy at state schools.

# ? May 7, 2010 21:20

J Miracle: Mar 25, 2010; It took 32 years, but I finally figured out push-ups!

JudicialRestraints posted:

Awesome, looks like the curve is nice and low already.

Thank god for illiteracy at state schools.

Wow your prof did a weird 10A question, I think mine was just straight-up commandeering and stuff like that. Also hardly talked about N&P other than the whole "this is what lets Congress do things vs. it's basically redundant" thing.

Still that's pretty awesome that a lot of your class fell into one of the most common exam pitfalls, not answering the question asked.

# ? May 7, 2010 21:26

Thoras Hammer: Oct 15, 2009

JudicialRestraints posted:

Awesome, looks like the curve is nice and low already.

Thank god for illiteracy at state schools.

Automatic A for JR! :hfive:

# ? May 7, 2010 21:27

Tetrix: Aug 24, 2002

JudicialRestraints posted:

Awesome, looks like the curve is nice and low already.

Thank god for illiteracy at state schools.

And Professors too?

quote:

I don�t think there is much questions that this satisfies the commerce clause

# ? May 7, 2010 21:34

in absentia: Mar 20, 2006

Thoras Hammer posted:

Automatic A for JR!

This is law school. He's still getting a B.

# ? May 7, 2010 21:51

J Miracle: Mar 25, 2010; It took 32 years, but I finally figured out push-ups!

I've never gotten a B what's that like? (I can joke because I'll still die alone and penniless)

# ? May 7, 2010 22:13

Ainsley McTree: Feb 19, 2004

edit: silly post nm

Ainsley McTree fucked around with this message at 22:25 on May 7, 2010

# ? May 7, 2010 22:17

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# ? Apr 29, 2024 12:26

soj89: Dec 5, 2005; Kids in China are playing tag with knives, on playgrounds constructed of spinning razorblades and spike traps, because it will make them stronger.

CmdrSmirnoff posted:

Finding solid Canadian employment numbers is basically impossible. The best you'll usually find are surveys run by each school's CSO, but even then you'll get like a 40% no-reply rate.

However, while looking, I stumbled on these guys, who are something of a suicide hotline for lawyers. Come check out uplifting newsletters like "Life After Divorce" or "Living with Chronic Pain".

edit: Hey Sib, sucks about the rejection from Osgoode. If it makes you feel better, they just moved to a holistic system and the admission chances have become completely random. Also the school sucks right now because the entire building is locked down and under construction. Even our library was packed away into boxes, though some materials were moved onto stacks in the basement of a nursing building

edit 2: Hireback numbers for Toronto are coming out and...goddamn. FMC only hired 7/14, with 3 of them clerking next year anyway. Cassels got 10/17. BLG did 17 of 25 (29 total students - 4 dropped out). And apparently Blakes is offering short-term contracts to students instead of hiring them. (note to American readers: these are some of our major firms)

This is a bit horrifying. I'm applying for articles this summer. I heard that most firms haven't changed their hiring for articles yet but do you think the smaller and mid-size firms will cut back? Not getting a 2L OCI is a bitch. It pretty much locks you out of the big boys on Bay Street.

Any tips you have on articles in Toronto would be helpful!

Actually, one more thing: if they want a writing sample, what would you send? a part of a factum or part of a "research paper"? The factum was from an option moot in 2L, I also have samples from research papers for two paper courses...

soj89 fucked around with this message at 22:52 on May 7, 2010

# ? May 7, 2010 22:41

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Ask/Tell > Business, Finance, and Careers > Lawyer & Law School Megathread #12: Started Out Barrister, Ended Up Barista

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