Lawyer & Law School Megathread #12: Started Out Barrister, Ended Up Barista

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Ask/Tell > Business, Finance, and Careers > Lawyer & Law School Megathread #12: Started Out Barrister, Ended Up Barista

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Omerta: Feb 19, 2007; I thought short arms were good for benching

Omerta fucked around with this message at 03:12 on Aug 17, 2011

# ¿ May 7, 2010 02:56

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# ¿ Apr 29, 2024 13:57

Omerta: Feb 19, 2007; I thought short arms were good for benching

Omerta fucked around with this message at 03:14 on Aug 17, 2011

# ¿ May 7, 2010 07:58

Omerta: Feb 19, 2007; I thought short arms were good for benching

Omerta fucked around with this message at 03:18 on Aug 17, 2011

# ¿ May 7, 2010 22:56

Omerta: Feb 19, 2007; I thought short arms were good for benching

Omerta fucked around with this message at 03:18 on Aug 17, 2011

# ¿ Jun 17, 2010 22:37

Omerta: Feb 19, 2007; I thought short arms were good for benching

Death Sandwich posted:

So I'm fixing to head to Emory Law in the fall, and I've got a question about law school student cultures in general. I'm sort of concerned that I'm going to be stuck hanging out around a bunch of stuck-up, WASPy, lame people - the kind that I generally tried to avoid during undergrad. Does anybody here go to Emory that wants to shed some light on the student culture there? Any body from any law school want to confirm that diverse student populations do exist? I really don't want to have to start listening to Dave Matthews Band and shopping at Hollister

Omerta fucked around with this message at 03:18 on Aug 17, 2011

# ¿ Jul 10, 2010 22:37

Omerta: Feb 19, 2007; I thought short arms were good for benching

Omerta fucked around with this message at 03:14 on Aug 17, 2011

# ¿ Jul 10, 2010 23:24

Omerta: Feb 19, 2007; I thought short arms were good for benching

Omerta fucked around with this message at 03:18 on Aug 17, 2011

# ¿ Jul 29, 2010 15:26

Omerta: Feb 19, 2007; I thought short arms were good for benching

Lykourgos posted:

What/where is BU?

Brown University school of law. It's very prestigious.

Speaking of which, why is it that everywhere there are depressed lawyers you find comparisons to doctors? Half the people here seem to believe that they would have gone to med school in retrospect. Well if you wanted to go to med school and went to law school you're a retard, but if you didn't have any particular desire to do either and just thought both were stable professions with lay prestige and oh boy will mom be proud of me you would probably be about as miserable as a doctor.

# ¿ Jul 30, 2010 17:17

Omerta: Feb 19, 2007; I thought short arms were good for benching

Lykourgos posted:

If you didn't already hate academia from experience with lib arts undergrad/high school, then going to law school isn't going to do anything. The hatred for a lot of people is only going to start after you work your first summer job, and realise in a very real, face to face manner how worthless law school is.

Omerta fucked around with this message at 03:19 on Aug 17, 2011

# ¿ Aug 22, 2010 15:55

Omerta: Feb 19, 2007; I thought short arms were good for benching

This was outside one of my professor's door today.

http://officespam.chattablogs.com/archives/2006/08/coloring-book-for-lawyers.html

# ¿ Aug 24, 2010 03:15

Omerta: Feb 19, 2007; I thought short arms were good for benching

Omerta fucked around with this message at 03:19 on Aug 17, 2011

# ¿ Aug 27, 2010 02:04

Omerta: Feb 19, 2007; I thought short arms were good for benching

Stunt Rock posted:

If you end up doing moot court, or doing any actual trial work when you get out, you'll find your AMTA experience incredibly helpful and you'll understand that those who said "You're better at trial than most actual attorneys" aren't lying.

That's super depressing. Will it also prepare me for the absolutely terrible choices that actual judges make?

Q: What did Ms. Jane say next to the defendant?
Objection hearsay, your honor may I be heard?
Judge: No overruled, I want to hear what she said.

edit: I can't wait to take evidence though. It was one of my favorite things to read about and work through in mock trial.

Omerta fucked around with this message at 04:21 on Aug 27, 2010

# ¿ Aug 27, 2010 04:18

Omerta: Feb 19, 2007; I thought short arms were good for benching

Stunt Rock posted:

Lots of Golden Rule violations ITT.

Yeah that's what I thought. Any time you put a jury in the shoes of the plaintiff then you get in trouble. I don't know how that works in the real world, but I got yelled at a lot because I said something along the same lines.

What are the actual repercussions from doing that? Do people just shrug it off? Can you get a mistrial for it?

On a less serious note, the firms I've worked for told me that South Florida is the most insane place to practice law. Anyone care to confirm/deny?

http://abovethelaw.com/2009/07/update-motion-to-compel-appropriate-footwear-causes-mistrial/

# ¿ Sep 7, 2010 16:05

Omerta: Feb 19, 2007; I thought short arms were good for benching

Enigma89 posted:

I do have connections and money isn't a problem.

As for the other schools. I have heard really good things about LLS/Pepperdine/UC Hastings. I don't see why I wouldn't want to get in there.

This is not you

I call shenanigans on your mediocre troll of this thread. If this is a real inquiry, consider the fact that your game plan is so laughable that only one person has given you a halfway serious response. Go back to watching Entourage.

edit: make that two

Omerta fucked around with this message at 04:47 on Sep 8, 2010

# ¿ Sep 8, 2010 04:43

Omerta: Feb 19, 2007; I thought short arms were good for benching

Mookie posted:

So go watch C-Span or something. Being "deeply interested in the law" is one of those bullshit reasons to go to law school that fills crap like admissions brochures but has nothing to do with law school.

Do you like sitting around with 100 other smug, clueless assholes who feel like you should care why they think that the concept of property as a "bundle of sticks" of various rights is bullshit?

IF SO, YOU'LL LOVE LAW SCHOOL!

BUT THE VERSATILITY OF THE LAW DEGREE IS UNMATCHED!!!! This could be you if you have the elite academic credentials to get into a top 100 law school

the national law journal posted:

When Dina Allam graduated last spring from Ohio State University with a joint law and master of business administration degree, she thought the combination would catch the eye of employers who could appreciate a mix of analytical skills and business know-how.

But after months of looking for a nonlawyer job that would put all that education to work and help pay off some of the nearly $85,000 in student loan debt, Allam began to think she'd made a mistake by going the law degree route.

"People don't see the value in the joint degree. They think I'm confused," she said.

In hindsight, Allam said she would have forgone the juris doctor degree and pursued just the MBA. But at the time she started law school, she was convinced that a J.D. diploma could open doors to a wide variety of job options.

"They made it sound like there were so many careers you could go into," said Allam, now a client engagement manager with Wipro Technologies in Columbus, Ohio. "I definitely think all the interviews I had were because I was in business school and not because I had a law degree."

Law schools and placement professionals frequently tout the versatility of a law degree as a path to alternative careers. But even in good economic times, the advantage of a juris doctor degree in landing a job in another field may well be overblown.

With student loan debt at an all-time high and law schools churning out about 44,000 degrees each year, graduates looking for nonlawyer jobs are finding that they often are priced out, overqualified and undervalued.

# ¿ Sep 8, 2010 04:52

Omerta: Feb 19, 2007; I thought short arms were good for benching

post your gooniest lawsuits here

43 Colo. App. 525; 608 P.2d 364; 1979 Colo. App. LEXIS 896

Hasen v. Hansen

lexis posted:

The child had been suspended from school for smoking and selling marijuana, and he subsequently quit school. His mother punished him for his suspension from school by requiring him to cut weeds in the backyard. His mother also sent him to a private school in Italy, where he remained for three months until he was expelled. He resided with his mother for short periods thereafter, and she conditioned further support on his either attending school or seeking employment. The child brought suit against the mother, claiming these actions and others constituted willful and wanton neglect and intentional infliction of emotional distress. The trial court granted summary judgment to the mother, and the court affirmed. It rejected the child's claim that there were genuine issues of fact as to the mother's conduct and state of mind and that conflicting inferences could be drawn about her state of mind.

# ¿ Oct 2, 2010 02:57

Omerta: Feb 19, 2007; I thought short arms were good for benching

Omerta fucked around with this message at 03:15 on Aug 17, 2011

# ¿ Oct 5, 2010 14:47

Omerta: Feb 19, 2007; I thought short arms were good for benching

Boosted_C5 posted:

I treated the LSAT like a football game, pumped myself up, and the "game-day" adrenaline carried me to a 173. My practice average was 171.

So you could also score a little higher than your average.

Of course you could also say I blew it getting so hyped up. 6 of my 7 wrong answers were right out of the gate on the 1st section of the test.

Reading Comprehension. Ugh.

p.s. I'm now a 2L as WashingTTTon & Lee, and have had one single call-back interview from OCI and a metric poo poo-ton of rejections. Last 2 interviews in 2 days. Journal, prior work experience (management), MBA, etc. Don't go, no jobs, etc. etc.

Yeah not saying that you can't do better. There was a running joke about Sigma Nus at my undergrad doing way better on the LSAT than their scores would predict. Every year just one out of the Sigma Nus (out of 2-4) would test mid to low 160s then blow out a 174+ for no reason while having a sub-3.0 gpa. It happened all four years I was at my undergrad. I think the dude my year had a 175/3.05 or something and got in ED at G-Town. I'll have to ask around in a few weeks to see if the streak continues.

Omerta fucked around with this message at 23:09 on Oct 5, 2010

# ¿ Oct 5, 2010 23:05

Omerta: Feb 19, 2007; I thought short arms were good for benching

I found an outline for LegReg but it spells "canons" as "cannons" throughout the entire outline. I decided I'm gonna skip out on using that one as a framework for mine.

# ¿ Oct 12, 2010 01:40

Omerta: Feb 19, 2007; I thought short arms were good for benching

billion dollar bitch posted:

Those are good points! I don't know the answer to them!

Although if you look at it, there isn't really any sort of binding precedent in the federal system for exactly how to interpret statutes. The issue is re-argued every single time a case comes before the Supreme Court. Gluck found that this isn't necessarily the case in state courts, though...

Yes it's for KGreen.

I think it'd be at least as valid to argue normative principles as it would be to argue based on prior precedent.

Look at what happens in NLRB v. Catholic Bishop of Chicago. The majority tries to sneak in a new canon of construction and 4 judges flip their poo poo and that's why you don't hear about the "affirmative intention" canon.

And what about when principles conflict? Do you just Llwellyn it up and create another principle that establishes the goal you're reaching for? How do you introduce new principles without counteracting existing ones? Then are you not just creating a system of precedent without the bluebook citation?

A cool book you may want to look at that helps me understand statutory interpretation is "Metaphors we live by" by Lakoff and Johnson. It's a great book and I used it as the basis for so many bullshit humanities papers in undergrad.

On top of that, think about the massive amount of money that would be spent litigating over whether this interpretation of the statute was "just" or was a case of ejusdem generis. The unpredictability of the judges' philosophical inclinations that day would make it super hard to assign a settlement value. Every case would end up reading like the Apology.A case precedent system is great because as soon as I get past all the hairy CivPro stuff, I can almost certainly assign a range of value that the case is worth if it went to trial. That saves a ton of money in actual trial expenses.

I feel like half of the interpretation cases are douchebag prosecutors who are just trying to sneak another 5 years on a guy's sentence under some convoluted meaning of carried/used/involved.

Omerta fucked around with this message at 14:02 on Oct 12, 2010

# ¿ Oct 12, 2010 13:54

Omerta: Feb 19, 2007; I thought short arms were good for benching

Petey posted:

I do not think this has been posted:

http://blogs.umass.edu/prelaw/files/2010/10/Matasaroct2010.pdf

Does the Current Economic Model of Legal Education Work for Law Schools, Law Firms (or Anyone Else)?
By Richard A. Matasar, Dean of New York Law School

Opening graf:

He's the Dean of NYLS and president of a private student loan group (The ironically named Access Group). I have no idea what he wrote about but the answer is that people like him and dumb law students like me are responsible for why things suck.

edit: Law school logic is analogous to my abortion is the only moral abortion

Omerta fucked around with this message at 22:10 on Oct 28, 2010

# ¿ Oct 28, 2010 22:06

Omerta: Feb 19, 2007; I thought short arms were good for benching

CaptainScraps posted:

You'd be surprised. A lot of law school people are fitness freaks. Whole lot of runners, not a lot of weight lifters, some cyclists.

Opposite here. I know one person who runs frequently. Students either (1) never go to the gym, ever or (2) do strength training 3+ times a week. There are a lot of swole law students this year.

Today, a guy in my fraternity told me how stoked he was to get his 161 back. Don't worry, he's planning to do JAG so nbd it won't be a problem to get into. I told him that .5% on a good day get accepted and the fact that he's been a pack a day smoker for 4 years probably won't work out so well for the whole fitness thing but what do I know I was dumb enough to go to law school.

But seriously, I hope that I don't hit a wall where I become sad, depressed, and homeless because I'm enjoying law school way more than undergrad.

# ¿ Oct 31, 2010 05:28

Omerta: Feb 19, 2007; I thought short arms were good for benching

The Warszawa posted:

To be fair, people don't listen even when they are told don't go no jobs die alone by those with better credentials. Everyone is a special snowflake, you're just jealous or an elitist.

So, awkward Thanksgiving to come: my cousin just found out I'm a 1L at Yale and is going to be asking me for application advice when he comes to Thanksgiving dinner. He has a 2.9/155. The next day we bury our grandfather.

Eeesh.

A friend of mine was asking me for application advice with his 3.1/153. He was looking at College of Charleston law. I told him that it wasn't even fully accredited. His response, "Well, they're probably gonna get accreditation." I was so stupefied I couldn't respond. In what universe is it acceptable to pay 40k go to a school that isn't technically a school yet?! That's like some wanna-be med student going to a startup Caribbean med school that is actually a beach shack with some test tubes in it.

# ¿ Nov 19, 2010 01:45

Omerta: Feb 19, 2007; I thought short arms were good for benching

blah blah stuff I edited out because it's been said a trillion times in this thread...

The most fascinating thing I read recently was that Thompson-reuters sold Barbri (the bar prep company that makes tons of money) to finance their purchase of Pangea3 (a company that hires Indian attorneys trained in U.S. law to do doc review in India). What does that tell you about where the legal market is going?

Omerta fucked around with this message at 18:53 on Nov 21, 2010

# ¿ Nov 21, 2010 16:45

Omerta: Feb 19, 2007; I thought short arms were good for benching

J Miracle posted:

As valedictorian of my TTT but still incapable of getting a job,

# ¿ Nov 21, 2010 18:00

Omerta: Feb 19, 2007; I thought short arms were good for benching

Linguica posted:

What?

That's from 2005-2010. At one point Scalia did hire clerks with different political opinions than him but he obviously stopped doing that.

# ¿ Nov 22, 2010 21:15

Omerta: Feb 19, 2007; I thought short arms were good for benching

These are my favorites:
3. Many lawyers fear increased competition, so they have a direct interest in discouraging people from entering the field. Law services are a product in a sense. The same reason you don�t see Microsoft encouraging competition is the same reason why lawyers don�t � more money can be made when there is less competition.

4. There may actually be a shortage of lawyers in the future, particularly in certain fields and in certain localities. Things like �brain drain� create opportunities for those with skills and an education who stay in such a drained area. Also, why do we forget the coming retirement of the baby-boomers? That actually relates partially to what has been referred to above (more elder law work) and the fact that there are thousands upon thousands of baby-boomer lawyers who will be out of the field in the next 5-10 years.

3: One would think, but the 75 law schools in the past 30 years says otherwise. Also lol at "law services are a product in a sense."

4. Is he seriously suggesting that the United States is becomes such an unattractive husk of a country that people are actively fleeing it? As an attorney trained in US law, your "product in a sense" is invaluable to other countries not experiencing " things like brain drain."

I am a Touro law grad. I have no understanding for basic logic (thousands retiring + tens of thousands entering = job opportunities?) or sentence structure.

# ¿ Nov 23, 2010 02:03

Omerta: Feb 19, 2007; I thought short arms were good for benching

Mookie posted:

gently caress YOU AND YOUR lovely BONUSES CRAVATH! NOT EVERYONE'S FIRM IS AS BONED AS YOURS BUT YOU hosed US ANYWAY YOU SHITWEASELS!

I was wondering how long that would take.

# ¿ Nov 23, 2010 03:33

Omerta: Feb 19, 2007; I thought short arms were good for benching

Direwolf posted:

So here at Northwestern we just finished/are finishing our primary research memo assignment for our writing/research courses. I found much of the process kind of... we got about 3-4 times as much time as we really needed to finish the memo, so I really am left with no idea of how much time it really takes to write a real memo.

How much time does it take to write a real memo? For reference this one ended up around 15 pages.

Then you're probably doing it wrong. Ours was easy to write but editing it took forever. My time split was about 5% research/writing and 95% editing.

# ¿ Nov 24, 2010 15:50

Omerta: Feb 19, 2007; I thought short arms were good for benching

hypocrite lecteur posted:

Dunno, if you're one of those dummies that goes in with a 50 page outline I can see having problems

I still don't understand how people make outlines longer than 25 pages for 1L classes. My case briefs for the entire year were between 50-60 pages per class and I briefed every case.

I always had enough time to spend about 5 minutes per hour making sure I worded things correctly or checking a concept against a tabbed outline on practice exams.

# ¿ Nov 29, 2010 04:38

Omerta: Feb 19, 2007; I thought short arms were good for benching

stingray1381 posted:

Federal civilian pay freeze. No COLA for the next two years. All legal jobs that still exist are becoming less attractive.

Well that's just awesome. http://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/30/us/politics/30freeze.html?hp

# ¿ Nov 29, 2010 18:23

Omerta: Feb 19, 2007; I thought short arms were good for benching

Omerta fucked around with this message at 03:20 on Aug 17, 2011

# ¿ Dec 2, 2010 02:47

Omerta: Feb 19, 2007; I thought short arms were good for benching

Just thought I would come post this for a little exam demotivation.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%96Kruger_effect

Wikipedia posted:

The Dunning�Kruger effect is a cognitive bias in which unskilled people make poor decisions and reach erroneous conclusions, but their incompetence denies them the metacognitive ability to realize their mistakes.[1] The unskilled therefore suffer from illusory superiority, rating their own ability as above average, much higher than it actually is, while the highly skilled underrate their abilities, suffering from illusory inferiority. This leads to the situation in which less competent people rate their own ability higher than more competent people. It also explains why actual competence may weaken self-confidence. Competent individuals falsely assume that others have an equivalent understanding. "Thus, the miscalibration of the incompetent stems from an error about the self, whereas the miscalibration of the highly competent stems from an error about others."

# ¿ Dec 5, 2010 23:22

Omerta: Feb 19, 2007; I thought short arms were good for benching

Linguica posted:

lawschool.jpg

That's beautiful

# ¿ Dec 5, 2010 23:31

Omerta: Feb 19, 2007; I thought short arms were good for benching

GamingHyena posted:

I'm curious what you think "defense law" is.

I'm still curious about this too "Teddybear."Custom title suggests tick defense???

RE: Admin law. Sometimes when I read admin law cases I feel like I've been sucked into a Kafka short story.

# ¿ Dec 7, 2010 04:31

Omerta: Feb 19, 2007; I thought short arms were good for benching

Napoleon I posted:

Have any of you ever set up a trust for a dog?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leona_Helmsley#Death

# ¿ Dec 9, 2010 15:34

Omerta: Feb 19, 2007; I thought short arms were good for benching

Omerta fucked around with this message at 03:21 on Aug 17, 2011

# ¿ Dec 14, 2010 03:17

Omerta: Feb 19, 2007; I thought short arms were good for benching

Angry Grimace posted:

Does grades in particular courses particularly matter? Because I'm fairly certain I got excellent grades in Civil Procedure and Legal Skills, but I felt like an idiot for a lot of the questions on Contracts.

I'm fairly certain your feeling about an exam has little correlation to how you actually did. Not trying to be a dick, but every single person ever has told me that trying to guess your exam grades only leads to madness.

The Warszawa posted:

Today I got an interview for a 1L summer job for which I never applied.

Yeah, that just happened.

drat, I just got one-upped. Are you going to the interview?

# ¿ Dec 15, 2010 03:25

Omerta: Feb 19, 2007; I thought short arms were good for benching

drat Phantom posted:

Final final next Wednesday and I'm getting incredibly paranoid about the quality (or lack thereof of my notes) for Torts. Does anybody know of a source where I can get a chart or something for the different jurisdiction rules (particularly California's rules) on assumption of risk, negligent infliction of emotional distress, etc.? I've already tried some Googling to no avail.

What's your email? I made PDF charts for every torts action. I can send them to you.

# ¿ Dec 17, 2010 07:08

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# ¿ Apr 29, 2024 13:57

Omerta: Feb 19, 2007; I thought short arms were good for benching

nytimes posted:

blah blah stuff about legal analysis of comic books.

Mr. Daily acknowledged that he and Mr. Davidson have a semi-serious purpose. �I think we both hope that the blog has a certain educational component,� he said, adding that it could show �how lawyers think about problems.�

Does that mean they would like to see more young people apply to law school? �Oh, I hope not,� Mr. Davidson said. �Not with the market the way it is.�

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/21/books/21lawyers.html?_r=1&hp

# ¿ Dec 20, 2010 17:12

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Ask/Tell > Business, Finance, and Careers > Lawyer & Law School Megathread #12: Started Out Barrister, Ended Up Barista

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