Lawyer & Law School Megathread #12: Started Out Barrister, Ended Up Barista

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Ask/Tell > Business, Finance, and Careers > Lawyer & Law School Megathread #12: Started Out Barrister, Ended Up Barista

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builds character: Jan 16, 2008; Keep at it.

amishsexpot posted:

Just got back from Fordham Admitted Student's Day which actually wasn't so bad. I met some people who I was VERY tempted to ask if they had stairs in their house (tipped off by literal neck-beards and food crumbs in the corners of their mouth) but also met some really nice, somewhat naive, not-yet-demoralized people (I have worked at a law firm for 3 years as a paralegal so my soul is already pretty much dead).

About Fashion Law - I'm more and more excited about it, despite the auto-email reply I got when I sent a request for more information. It's apparently the ONLY Fashion Law program in the entire U.S. and the professor is supposed to be incredible. From reading the link posted, Diane Von Furstenberg also has some kind of vague role, too. I mean, it's certainly not the ONLY reason I'd go to Fordham, but it doesn't hurt.

First, this seems close to trolling at this point but in the hope that you aren't:

1. Everybody wants to get into fashion in the same way that everyone wants to join a hedge fund or play or work for an NFL team. This means there is a ton of competition for any available positions.

2. What do you mean by fashion law? Fashion is still just companies making a product. They'll probably need lots of IP advice about their brands, some contract advice about their various contracts to buy supplies and sell fashion, some employment advice about their employees, some capital markets advice if they're a big company, some compliance advice if they're a public company, and some finance advice if they're a big company.

3. Everyone else is saying don't go! They are right. Companies generally hire from (i) if they're a big company, the type of firms that represent them because companies do not think it is worthwhile to train lawyers and there is a ready supply of lawyers looking to leave firms and join companies and that supply of lawyers has been been pre-screened for the company, or (ii) if they are a small company, friends of the founders (in this case you should be extremely wary of going to Fordham because you will not be well compensated and you will owe lots of money, although there's always the 10-8 path to success to consider).

I don't know about small companies so let's try The Gap. I know, they're probably not where you want to work but you have to recognize that large established companies are the ones that can afford to pay lawyers to be on staff.

Looks like they're called The Gap, Inc. Let's go look at their filings to see who they work with. Let's check out the latest quarterly filing to see what we can find.

Eureka, a credit agreement! How exciting. :neckbeard:

Now we search through the credit agreement for "counsel" because the agreement will probably require them to get an opinion of counsel and law firms always always always say "an opinion of counsel of ME (or maybe possibly someone else)."

Here it is in 5.01(a)

(vii) A favorable opinion of Skadden, Arps, Slate, Meagher & Flom LLP, special New York counsel to the Loan Parties, in substantially the form of Exhibit D-2 and as to such other matters as any Lender through the Agent may reasonably request.

(viii) A favorable opinion of Shearman & Sterling LLP, special New York counsel to the Agent, in substantially the form of Exhibit E and as to such other matters as any Lender through the Agent may reasonably request.

Hmm, well they represent the other side. But it's a good start because these are the firms that are working on deals with The Gap.

Let's try the letter of credit.

There we are.

4.01(e) A favorable opinion of Orrick, Herrington & Sutcliffe LLP, special New York counsel to the Account Parties, in substantially the form of Exhibit A-2 hereto and as to such other matters as the LC Issuer may reasonably request.
(the account parties is a defined term that means The Gap and its subsidiaries).

Frankly I'm a little surprised it isn't a more prestigious firm, but The Gap is probably represented by Orrick because Orrick is in San Francisco and The Gap was founded in San Fransisco (and, like all big companies, I bet they use other firms too).

Now go look at how many summers Skadden, Shearmen and Orrick are hiring and where they are from.

Here is another example. This company publishes Elle Magazine. This is their parent company. Too bad they are French and everything is a paper filing. :argh:

So for Elle Magazine you are probably looking at some contracts work regarding their distribution and supply chains and lots and lots and lots of IP work.

Another way to find out who works for a company is to look at linked in. I'm not going to do that research, but it's probably worth looking at the background of the people with the jobs you want. Be bold and e-mail them asking if they have any advice for you.

Short version: if you want to work for a fashion company then your best bet is to go do work for a fashion company at a big firm for a few years first. Big firms in NY do hire from Fordham, but you will need to be near the top of your class.

Mookie posted:

Any and all states where you cannot purchase HARD LIQUOR at any supermarket or 7-11 at 2 a.m. on a Sunday are buttfuck nowhere.

This especially includes New York loving City.

Stop being poor and go buy your booze at a bar the way the rest of us do (only $12 for a gin and tonic).

# ¿ Jun 25, 2010 15:32

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# ¿ May 16, 2024 15:04

builds character: Jan 16, 2008; Keep at it.

CaptainScraps posted:

My kingdom to work for an attorney with some loving balls.

Go solo.

# ¿ Jun 29, 2010 22:39

builds character: Jan 16, 2008; Keep at it.

Green Crayons posted:

Uh, what are you doing? Stop this.

I'm waiting for Scraps to finally give us an elated post about how he went behind his boss' back and filed his awesome MSJ because he knows its the right thing to do and how he's writing this post while currently kicking back smoking a cigar getting his dick sucked and waiting for his boss to come in and say that they won the case and that he's sorry and he's giving Scraps a bonus on top of his bonus and apologizes for not understanding Scraps' awesome case strategy and that there's a place open in the firm for Scraps as soon as he graduates from LS with no roadblocks between Scraps and equity partner.

And then? Then I can't wait for the post that comes two hours after that. It will be delicious.

So stop messing with my stories, man.

SUCKING DICK IS ILLEGAL IN TEXAS. YOU COULD GET HIM ARRESTED JUST BY POSTING THAT!

CmdrSmirnoff posted:

After days of writing and rewriting and ultimately aborting a dozen [articling] cover letters for government ministries and firms that don't really do what I'm truly after, I'm thinking of only applying to the handful of places that really fit me. How terrible a plan is this ~*~in this economy~*~ ? Should I just submit some incredibly basic letter that doesn't really mention why I'm applying to the Ministry of Transportation (for example) or how I'm qualified? Am I just wasting both mine and the hiring committee's time?

I kinda brought this up earlier with regard to an admiralty firm, but now I'm a) stumped as to how to spin my narrow experience into more diverse fields, and b) whether I even want to work outside of the criminal or regulatory environment, and c) regardless of whether I want to work there or not, should apply just to get more potential opportunities.

I think there are two approaches to this. Either an e-mail/cover letter that says "I am writing to apply for [___] job. I am currently a 3L at [____]. Thank you for your consideration, please do not hesitate to contact me if you have any questions. Thank you, CmdrSmirnoff, ESQUIRE"

HooKars posted:

Sooooo... what are you doing Friday night?

I would pay one million dollars to see a video of this date (preferably with pop up video type bubbles commenting). It would be like the best episode of every dating show ever. I'm sorry to hear about the boy. He was a jerk anyway.

Ainsley McTree posted:

I applied for several call center jobs, hovering around the $12/hr mark. unshockingly i have not heard back

tomorrow i get to beg my parents for rent money

# ¿ Jun 30, 2010 14:33

builds character: Jan 16, 2008; Keep at it.

TyChan posted:

I think some of those insane hours involve the billable "waiting around" time that comes with legal work, like camping out at the printers with the bankers or waiting for 2+ hours before your annoying opposing counsel actually arrives for a court-scheduled conference.

I am sad that going to the printer is a thing of the past.

It was like Disneyland only with booze and drafting disclosure.

# ¿ Jun 30, 2010 23:12

builds character: Jan 16, 2008; Keep at it.

HooKars posted:

Okay everyone. Let's try REALLY hard to help me get this job. I know we went over good questions to ask during interviews awhile back but does anyone have any other good ones - specifically for someone not entering the summer program.

If I were you I would want to know the following things:

1. How is work assigned?
2. Are you being hired by the department or are you going to work for a particular partner. Often laterals are brought on to work with a particular partner.
3. What kind of work will you be doing. Ideally you would know the general answer before interviewing but if it's litigation what is the process for this particular kind of litigation and are you going to be doing doc review or sent around the country taking depositions or researching and writing briefs.
4. How many associates that were up for partner made partner?
5. How many years is the partner track and has it been extended recently? (ex. Simpson used to be 8 years and now is 47 years).
(6. How many hours per year are you expected to bill to remain in good standing. This is a dangerous question and if you're going to ask it you have to make it absolutely clear that you want to work and will bleed yourself dry for them but that you're only concerned because at your last job you were assigned to work in finance and then through no fault of your own the hours just weren't there.)

Is this position transactional or litigation?

entris posted:

I love lawyers who dislike advertising, because it means that I can treat my law firm like a normal business and out-compete them.

If a billboard ad brings in X new clients, and X*Y new revenue, and it only costs <X*Y, why wouldn't you do it?

Too many law firms act like non-businesses, and it's a stupid, antiquated attitude. Maybe that attitude worked back in Pythagoras' day, but nowadays a business is a business, and it's all about the numbers.

The billboard thing varies a lot by market, but I agree that lawyers are terrible at business and need a significant paradigm shift.

CaptainScraps posted:

My friends bought $100 worth of fireworks, mostly mortars. Now, my friends are idiots. They purposely didn't buy a mortar tube. Instead, they would light the drat things and throw them in the yard to watch them explode, only a few feet from spectators.

The entire time I'm thinking that I really, really want to see the carnage if it goes down but I don't want to be a fact witness so I can be the one to bring a case against the fireworks throwers and the home owner. Luckily, attorney brain shuts off with enough alcohol and the carnage was amazing.

Mortar protip: mortars come in different sizes. Basically they are balls of fireworks with a fuse. Big ones are three connected balls with a long fuse, little ones are one ball with a short fuse and medium ones are two balls with a medium fuse. The big ones also come with a longer tube. What you do is put a big firework in the big tube, then put a medium or small firework on top of the big one. Twist their fuses together and use a big lighter so that you're sure you get both of them at once. Then light and run away. You can thank me next fourth of July.

Green Crayons posted:

bleep bloop i want to be a lawyer to churn out x>y profit, where x is money made and y is money spent on hookers and blow bleep bloop

When can you start?

billion dollar bitch posted:

Query: how can lawyers be low class, when the very act of passing the bar puts you in the highest class of all?

Practice in NJ.

# ¿ Jul 6, 2010 15:04

builds character: Jan 16, 2008; Keep at it.

Bar exam tip: for NY there is a question where you have to write a memo. Write MEMORANDUM at the top. That is worth like a third of a point.

# ¿ Jul 7, 2010 14:45

builds character: Jan 16, 2008; Keep at it.

Ainsley McTree posted:

I can't remember if I posted about this or if your insight into my lifestyle is just that good

# ¿ Jul 10, 2010 03:57

builds character: Jan 16, 2008; Keep at it.

from the gif thread in PYF.

# ¿ Jul 12, 2010 17:04

builds character: Jan 16, 2008; Keep at it.

Phil Moscowitz posted:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lpM07PQYNns

loving owned hahahaha

I am glad you're here.

transactional work for life :cool:

# ¿ Jul 12, 2010 21:45

builds character: Jan 16, 2008; Keep at it.

Solomon Grundy posted:

It think that the above-mentioned factors are all valid, but I think there is a systemic change going on that affects all businesses, even lawyers. The change is this - information is suddenly cheap and easy to find.

...

Lawyers are the ultimate information brokers. The law used to be a gigantic mystery, and the common people would pay dearly for a guide. Now, scads of information is at one's fingertips, all of the time. It gets harder to see the value of a lawyer, and many lawyer information monopolies have blown up.

So the practice of law changes and contracts, and the young ones and the old ones get hit the worst.

We have discussed this before here and I don't want to revisit the entirety of the discussion except to say that you are correct about information and, to some degree, systemic change.

Technology has also had an impact on the market. Because of advances in technology, firms staff deals more leanly and are able to distribute work among offices more easily. Before you needed six people to go to the printer and physically look at an OM. Now you need one associate who sends a PDF to the printer and reviews it when you get it back. Before if your group was too busy you had to hire more people. Now you can send some work to be done by associates in the Palo Alto office and it's almost as good as if the associates were working in your office. Before you gave changes to your assistant and they made the changes. Now you type them up and run the blackline yourself. Technological changes and increased comfort with technology are making work more efficient and, consequently, depressing associate demand. I don't think it's a huge effect, but it's definitely there.

Neurosis posted:

Law firms I've interviewed few actually were interested in my non-law school stuff. They DID prefer, quite clearly, people who had a lot of law related co-curriculars (competitions e.g. client interviews, mooting being the main route for commercial law firms since they didn't really care about volunteer work, or so I've been told), but still asked me about my fight sport activiites, my activities with the Petroleum Club at my university, and the like. Though the last may be a little misleading since my state is possibly the biggest natural resources location on the entire planet.

Yes, but consider that the minimum requirements to get those interviews were numbers based. Also, your state is the arctic?

J Miracle posted:

If you go to law school no one will ever care about the crap that makes you an interesting and well-rounded person again.

HAHA, JUST KIDDING LAW FIRMS REALLY CARE A LOT ABOUT YOU AND YOU ARE IMPORTANT AND SPECIAL.

It is better to work with a nice interesting person than someone who is a jerk but you're kidding yourself if you think that the ability to hunker down and bill isn't what really matters at the end of the day (you still have to be civil but nobody cares if you are president of your local botany club).

Business posted:

It seems like there's a certain value to a lawyer who can just keep his/her head down and gun like no other. Also, fantastic numbers and a 'Prestigious' resume/application are not mutually exclusive things at all, except for maybe something like business school, where the actual experience you've built up is more important.

Not sure why b-school is different. There is definitely value to keeping your head down and grinding out work. Lots and lots of value.

TyChan posted:

Another thing to think about, although this is more of a 2-5 year forecast (at most) than anything else, is that legal work for the big and medium sized firms in the US is fueled by having steady transactional clients who would inevitably get into trouble and need your firm's litigation group or subgroups to step in. This is a self-feeding model that depends on having large amounts of not-so-routine contractual work. Since the US has not had a terribly great manufacturing sector for... decades, this meant that law firms were feeding off of new financial activity like IPOs or other securitization and credit work.

With the consolidation of many of the large investment banks and the tight limits on credit, all this activity has either stopped or slowed down incredibly, which left firms with a lot of excess capacity that they had to get rid of to maintain partner profit expectations. As you can see from reading the business section of a newspaper at any given day right now, this financial activity has not picked up and shows no signs of really picking up anytime soon. Some people think that these times may never come back although I think that's a bit overblown.

Keep in mind that Mookie, as a well-versed big firm guy, might be able to come in and point out why this is all crap, but this is the sense I've been getting from looking at how everything in NYC is going down.

Things are definitely picking up in the legal market. Whether or not that extends to the rest of the economy is a different question entirely. I think it's uncommon for firms to represent clients in litigation where the firm also represented the firm in the transaction that leads to the litigation.

semicolonsrock posted:

But why would the T14, for example, care, if they're so firmly entrenched at the top? Does USN & WR really weight GPA that heavily?

It just doesn't seem like they're getting the people who will make the best lawyers.

You need to sit down and take a few minutes to seriously think about the market for lawyers and the market for law schools and how those two things are different.

Why should a school care who makes the best lawyers? If the current model doesn't provide schools with students who make the best lawyers then why are schools embracing the current model?

# ¿ Jul 14, 2010 21:59

builds character: Jan 16, 2008; Keep at it.

Halloween Jack posted:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but are you saying that before technology simplified things, a law degree was basically an investment which earned you the right to get paid a lot of money to do simple office work anyone could handle?

No. Most people can do the stuff that first years do and paralegals and assistants sometimes do it. Experienced paralegals are frequently far more useful than a junior associate. But (i) at some point (I think second year but it will probably depend on your practice) the work that you're doing requires some thinking and you need to know the law to be able to do that thinking (not that you couldn't learn the law on the job, but see ii) and (ii) this probably counts as practicing law and you have to be a lawyer to practice law.

TyChan posted:

Job-wise or activity wise?

Activity in New York is picking up and associates are definitely more busy than they used to be, but from what I was getting told, these transactions were happening because if they didn't happen, people were going to be bleeding money and a lot of financial clients couldn't just sit around doing nothing. Financial activity is not picking up enough to increase hiring rates, give laid-off attorneys their jobs back, or otherwise provide jobs to current and aspiring law students the way they were getting handed out during the late 90s or between 2005-2007.

This actually happens quite a lot from my experience, but I guess I should have been clearer and said that firms usually parlay a role in the transactions into generating litigation business because clients used to ask "hey _____, we have an issue with this transaction gone wrong, do you have anyone who can deal with it?" and then the firm would say, "oh, but of course."

That cycle has been damaged, if not outright broken, in many respects.

Job-wise for experienced lateral associates and activity wise generally. Sure, it's nowhere near 2006 but it's also a significant step up from where we were a year ago. And yes, it's not creating any new jobs for anyone without a job.

This is not my experience but I'm happy accepting that my experience isn't representative and I'm certainly not a litigator or a partner so I may just not know about it. I have seen a lot of cross-pollination, for lack of a better term, among transactional practice groups.

# ¿ Jul 14, 2010 22:32

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TyChan posted:

These arguments are so intentionally weak that they're hilarious. David Lat, Esq. is one passive-aggressive motherfucker.

# ¿ Jul 15, 2010 00:07

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semicolonsrock posted:

This might be an overly ambitious question, but how did the practice of employers looking to USNWR for hiring guidance begin? I can see why it continues, but it seems like a stupid thing to start doing. Does anyone have a link to like a law school rankings history or something? When did they start?

Lawyers and their clients are prestige whores.

Incredulous Red posted:

Isn't part of USNWR's law school rankings peer/bench/academics' impressions of the schools? So, like, wouldn't USNWR's rankings reflect firm's preferences almost as much as they influence them?

Yes. No.

entris posted:

I think Diablo and Civilization are two great video game metaphors for the skills necessary to run a solo practice:

Diablo - constant hustling and slaughtering

Civ - long-term strategy, careful planning, etc..

Going by these two, I'd say poofactory was amply prepared for solo / small firm practice.

And neither require any human contact at all. Perfect.

# ¿ Jul 15, 2010 14:00

builds character: Jan 16, 2008; Keep at it.

HooKars posted:

Perhaps you couldn't tell by my name, but I am very well versed in the art of hookers.

I always thought that was "who cares."

# ¿ Jul 15, 2010 19:48

builds character: Jan 16, 2008; Keep at it.

mrtoodles posted:

Clearly you should go to UC Davis. Maybe nm and I will still be in the area, miserable and jobless. We will welcome your sensible company.

FYI, there is an in-n-out so it's not like it's all bad. :burger:

# ¿ Jul 16, 2010 03:02

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Mookie posted:

gently caress in-n-out. Most overrated burger place in the history of mankind.

Davis has Murderburger, home of the Aggie Annihilator and, fittingly, of an actual murder.

1. If this is the route you're taking then gently caress burgers. Tacos are way better than burgers.
2. There are lots of burger places that are better than in-n-out.
3. When last I was in Davis I ate at in-n-out and it was delicious.
4. I think you have to respect a place that does this, even if you disagree with it.

Phil Moscowitz posted:

In n Out owns gently caress all yall

right, or that.

# ¿ Jul 16, 2010 14:27

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entris posted:

Please. Don't even try.

Ray's Hell Burger, right outside DC, serves burgers that are made from incredibly high quality butcher cuts. They too have a burger on their menu that has foie gras on it, but Ray's comes with truffle oil. Truffle oil. You can also get burgers with cognac + sherry sauteed mushrooms, or with shallots, etc.

http://www.allmenus.com/va/arlington/273616-rays-hell-burger/menu/

Ray's Hell Burger has hosted the only black President of the God-blessed United States of America. Twice.

http://dcist.com/2009/05/obama_and_biden_lunch_at_rays_hell.php

http://www.csmonitor.com/From-the-news-wires/2010/0624/Ray-s-Hell-Burger-Obama-and-Medvedev-have-historic-hamburger-summit

/I had to put "only black" as a qualifier because I'm pretty sure McDonald's holds the record for most Presidential visits to a hamburger place, given Bill Clinton.

Does your burger place require a jacket and tie just to get in the door? No? No it doesn't? Then get out with your cognac truffle oil foie gras burgers.

they changed the dress code and now they let in any old riff raff.

evilweasel posted:

I really like my firm actually though the paralegal I was talking to last night was telling me horror stories, but fortunately they were mostly attorneys dumping huge amounts of work on her and then leaving for the day.

But yeah "treats their employees humanely" is basically the most important thing to look for right after "is this place firing everyone including you even though you don't even have a job yet they're just giving you an offer so they can fire more people"

This is what I thought before the crisis. Now I think that you should seriously consider prestige as a proxy for exit opportunities. Your life will probably be worse at a more prestigious firm but it may end up being worth it in the end.

# ¿ Jul 16, 2010 18:33

builds character: Jan 16, 2008; Keep at it.

gvibes posted:

Seriously?

I'm just not entirely convinced that past conduct is a great indicator of future conduct.

If between X.X5 and X.X9, then one digit after the decimal. If between X.X0 and X.X4, then two.

I think there's a difference between thinking about it and really taking it into consideration when making your decision. For example, if you want to be all happy and you want to work in SV you might go to work for Gunderson Dettmer because they're nice and they do good VC work and they were one of the first firms to really escalate associate compensation. Sure they're not super prestigious but they have good connections in the industry and they're an excellent firm so you'll probably be fine. Compare that line of thought to: Do I want to be a partner? Probably, but what if I don't and what if I don't make it? What if I only realize I don't want to be a partner four years in? What if I want to totally switch careers? Which firm will provide me the best opportunity to change careers or even just practice areas? Prestige becomes far more important in the latter calculus. Although, counterpoint - if you choose prestige you're less likely to be happy and more likely to leave.

# ¿ Jul 17, 2010 00:09

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Defleshed posted:

Ahhh, my advice was for Chicago area firms. Apparently New York is different and I don't have any idea what British firm culture is like. Take my advice with a grain of salt, then.

Magic circle firms are like NY firms.

# ¿ Jul 18, 2010 22:32

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Elotana posted:

still driving my 1992 honda civic i bought with money working at gamestop during freshman year of undergrad

Sold my car because a garage in NYC is $500/month. :smug:

# ¿ Jul 20, 2010 14:54

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CaptainScraps posted:

Not a goddamned bit. But I have preconceived notions.

Preconceived notions.

Some transactional work is not adversarial. Other transactional work is ridiculously adversarial. Sometimes the ridiculous describes not the degree of adversariality (technical term) but the fact that being adversarial is ridiculous because the adversarial party will be a division within your client or a sister company that is sort of on the other side of the transaction.

# ¿ Jul 21, 2010 14:36

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CaptainScraps posted:

You and me, we got a date.

Fun fact: The El Milagro factory is 4 miles east of my office. But you'll be getting better tortillas than that.

This is the part where I tell everyone in NY to take the trip to tortilleria nixtamal again.
edit: it's like twelve hours away from everything on the 7 train (hi John Rocker) but well worth it.

# ¿ Jul 21, 2010 20:45

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MaximumBob posted:

Get over it. The bar exam isn't about seeing if you're fit to practice law, it's about providing barriers to entry so you people don't come take our jobs. What we really need are longer bar exams with ridiculous amounts of required memorization, character and fitness standards which are only questionably constitutional, and ideally some sort of labyrinth full of minotaurs.

I fully support any barrier to entry that includes a labyrinth full of minotaurs.

# ¿ Jul 22, 2010 13:25

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lipstick thespian posted:

So, how do you get into legal academia in the US?

Read Mere Brilliance by James Gordley.

# ¿ Jul 23, 2010 20:23

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Good luck to everyone taking the bar.

# ¿ Jul 27, 2010 14:41

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Leon Kowalski posted:

Noodlebaby's experience is a lot easier to handle if one has a spouse with a decent salary. Obviously we all want large salaries, but $50,000 combined with -let's say- $70,000 isn't too shabby. Certainly enough to get by on even with kids.

Neither is 160k combined with you're loving fired, you have half an hour to clean your desk and security will escort you to the exit; now get out of my office.
I kid, firms are much kinder and gentler when they fire/defer people.

# ¿ Jul 28, 2010 14:43

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Solomon Grundy posted:

We did spend $80 at the county fair this month.

$3 each for elephant ears! :argh:

# ¿ Jul 28, 2010 22:30

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Jew Bear posted:

My friend's hubby just transferred from Valpo to Indiana University School of Law � Indianapolis (incoming 2L). From this thread, I gather that either means he's not totally boned or he'll be making $14/hr as a Costco clerk rather than $10/hr as a barista.

Also, how boned are you if you don't intern anywhere between 1L and 2L?

Indiana is much better than Valpo. But it's still like being the guy in the second wave to hit the beach at Normandy.

If you did something interesting it may be ok, but generally pretty boned. Other factors are also important.

fougera posted:

I'm writing a cover letter to carpet bomb firms with. How do I say something particular about the firm that interests me when they all have the same practice areas?

I think you have to do one of two things: either actually figure out something to say about the firm (Chambers will tell you more specifically what they're good at) or don't include a cover letter.

If you have the stats you can get away with an e-mail that says Dear [X], I am writing to apply for a summer associate position at [Firm Y]. Attached are my resume and a writing sample. Thank you for your consideration. I am available at your convenience to further discuss my application.
[Warm regards][Best regards][Regards][Thank you][Smooches],
fougera

Solomon Grundy posted:

$120,000 per year is not as much as you think it is.

I completely agree with this.

# ¿ Jul 29, 2010 14:29

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Petey posted:

Just got into DC. What's that great burger place? Ray's Hell Burger or something?

Go to Ben's Chili Bowl and get chili cheese fries and chili dogs. If you do not like this place you are probably too skinny to post here.

# ¿ Jul 30, 2010 15:10

builds character: Jan 16, 2008; Keep at it.

nudipedalia posted:

Are you seriously asking me to define the difference in applicability of internal and external regulations?

No governmental body can claim a power that has not been explicitly granted to it by a properly constituted legislature. Traffic cops can't adjudicate constitutional questions, food stamp clerks can't declare war. I mean, at its simplest, it's the difference between requiring a weapons proficiency certification for cops and cops stopping people on the street with no reasonble suspicion and asking for their certificates whether they are carrying or not. For additional fun, replace cops with someone from Department of Transportation. Health and safety regulations for employees and customers, dispute resolution through HR or customer relations, "my instruction says we need this" vs "law doesn't require me to provide you with it".

Do we need to revise the hierarchy of legislative acts with judicial principles up there, followed by constitution, all the way down to specific powers devolved to local agencies?

Am I taking a too strict positivist approach due to my continental background?

Let's start with a cursory look at amendments:
1st - right to petition in what language?, 4th - warrant in what language?, 5th - due process in what language?; 6th - a pile of stuff starting with a traffic ticket and due notice of accusations in what loving language and on what basis; 15th - suffrage and de facto discrimination of speakers of X where X is any of Russian, Ebonics, Mandarin and some forgotten German dialect for Mennonites? Notice I'm not touching 10th with its federal powers and the interstate commerce nightmare.

Why do you presume the primacy of English and on what basis do you define the stopping point in (quick and imprecise example) English - ASL - Braille - Spanish - Ukrainian - Pirah� - brainfuck continuum?

e:

I must have been unclear: a third party in my poor understanding is someone who is getting involved in court proceedings. Once a witness has entered the courtroom he is presumed to be in understanding of the rules governing it and provided a translator if he requires one, he is not a third person anymore. What's problematic is summoning him before he is involved, presuming he understands English in summons without first enquiring whether he needs a translator.

Summoning him in English can't be done based of court regulations because he is not involved yet and thus is governed by the general body of laws and not specific court regulations.

You are making the mistake of confusing what you think the law is with how things really work. It is OK, this happens all the time.

# ¿ Aug 2, 2010 18:57

builds character: Jan 16, 2008; Keep at it.

evilweasel posted:

oops that's my joural sorry

Please make frequent 99 problems jokes.

# ¿ Aug 3, 2010 23:35

builds character: Jan 16, 2008; Keep at it.

Feces Starship posted:

Dont be having a go at him guys. BDB's really a p cool dude and he even lent me earplugs for an exam but i didnt much care for them; too soft + i could hear the beating of my heart which made me conscious of the fact that one day i will die and that despite this I'm wasting time taking a property exam

Fun story: I know someone who worked at a bank who had a metal trash can thrown at their head. Fortunately they were nimble. Good luck with not letting your family die.

# ¿ Aug 6, 2010 23:47

builds character: Jan 16, 2008; Keep at it.

HooKars posted:

Business and Finance. Though its a ridiculously obscure subsection of that which kind of sucks. I'm also non-partnership track with the same billable hours as partnership track, but at least they're calling me an associate vs. staff attorney so it won't hurt the resume.

Congrats! I'm sorry it's law and business and finance.

Congrats to everyone else getting jobs as well.

# ¿ Aug 13, 2010 20:10

builds character: Jan 16, 2008; Keep at it.

GamingHyena posted:

Well I mean who doesn't enjoy a 7 day work week?

I seriously think I'm getting burned out. Older lawyers, does it ever get better?

It's like a pie-eating contest where the prize is more pie.

# ¿ Aug 16, 2010 17:20

builds character: Jan 16, 2008; Keep at it.

# ¿ Aug 19, 2010 15:00

builds character: Jan 16, 2008; Keep at it.

I like the stories about Alaska.

SWATJester posted:

A neurosurgeon I was family friends with raped dozens of patients. It happens more than you think. (edit: Thought your quote was in reply to Judicial's comment about doctor raping, but comparatively, my doctor (a DO, not a chiro) last time I saw him did a quick manipulation on my back and billed $90 for literally 5 seconds work, without even asking. Granted, it all goes to my insurance company so I don't have to pay anything different, but for literally 3 minutes of him coming in, asking if there were any changes in my condition, printing out a prescription refill, and going yoink on my back, he bills the insurance company for the same amount a 1st year associate would bill for an entire hour.

Billing rates are far more compressed than you think they are. Paralegals start out at more than $100/hour. I think first year associates are around $300/hour. That is still less good than $18/second.

# ¿ Aug 23, 2010 14:59

builds character: Jan 16, 2008; Keep at it.

Torpor posted:

This is the most depressing post in the thread.

Yeah...

but, congrats Ainsley!

Ainsley McTree posted:

Somewhere in between. It's a data entry thing where my job is to copy and paste things from a .pdf into a database. It has nothing to do with the law and I suspect that a normal human being with interests and passions would be bored to tears but after 17 months of nothing at all I'm honestly pretty happy to have an easy job that pays $15/hour 30 hours/week. Plus there's a free coffee machine. It isn't very good but I've learned to not be picky about things lately

It only lasts till some time in November but I think that if I refuse to leave the building they'll hire me permanently

also, from above the law. I assume folks have seen this. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nMvARy0lBLE

# ¿ Oct 19, 2010 14:21

builds character: Jan 16, 2008; Keep at it.

Phil Moscowitz posted:

Yes but what the MSM doesn't want you to know is that later in the debate, she asked Coons to name the 5 freedoms in the First Anendment and he couldn't name them. well, actually he seemed tired of her constant interruptions and badgering and told her to let the moderators ask the questions, but still. It is COONS who doesn't know the constitution! Lamestream media!

# ¿ Oct 19, 2010 21:25

builds character: Jan 16, 2008; Keep at it.

Ainsley McTree posted:

Well, I didn't really do anything to earn it honestly - a friend of mine who works at the company suggested me for the project and they hired me without an interview or even asking for my resume(not as risky as it sounds, I firmly believe that with enough training a second grader could do this job satisfactorily but I'm still not complaining because it's stress-free) so all I did really was have an awesome friend.

Life is unfair. It just happened to be unfair in your favor this time. Enjoy it!

# ¿ Oct 21, 2010 16:30

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ¿ May 16, 2024 15:04

builds character: Jan 16, 2008; Keep at it.

CaptainScraps posted:

FLOUR tortillas?

Some people are allergic to corn.

edit: not me.

builds character fucked around with this message at 18:58 on Oct 22, 2010

# ¿ Oct 22, 2010 18:53

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Ask/Tell > Business, Finance, and Careers > Lawyer & Law School Megathread #12: Started Out Barrister, Ended Up Barista

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