Lawyer & Law School Megathread #12: Started Out Barrister, Ended Up Barista

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Ask/Tell > Business, Finance, and Careers > Lawyer & Law School Megathread #12: Started Out Barrister, Ended Up Barista

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nm: Jan 28, 2008; "I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."

SWATJester posted:

http://lawyerist.com/major-flaw-in-law-school-rankings/

74 law schools don't report their employment numbers at-graduation because "9-months later minus 30%" is probably more than they had at graduation.

Jesus loving christ.

I will give one argument for that.
Pretty much anyone going into a PD or DA's office will not have a job at graduation. With the exception of some large offices, they won't hire (or even consider) anyone until they pass the bar.
So that would hurt places that send more people into crim law than civil.
Admittedly, I don't know if that would really impact stats that much, except at the highest level like YLS where those people might get clerkships.

# ¿ May 31, 2010 05:22

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# ¿ May 16, 2024 03:57

nm: Jan 28, 2008; "I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."

stingray1381 posted:

ahahahaah. I went back to watch it again because it's so psycho, but I get the message that the user removed the video.

Removing it is probably the smartest thing that guy has ever done.

# ¿ Jun 1, 2010 04:11

nm: Jan 28, 2008; "I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."

Maggie Fletcher posted:

Last July's exam takers have told me that after the first week it's not supposed to make sense. I'm about at the same level and it terrifies me, but I don't think we're supposed to worry about it yet. Multiple choice has never really been my friend, but steady improvement is more important than getting it right off the bat.

At least in CA, you can listen to the barbri lectures online instead of going to the classroom, which is important if you're an auditory learner. Make sure you listen to the part you missed.

Edit: my reading comprehension still sucks.

I was doing well over 50% on everything but real property (which hovered around 50% in the harder tests because RP sucks balls)

If you're meeting the targets barbri sets for you, don't worry though.

# ¿ Jun 5, 2010 20:39

nm: Jan 28, 2008; "I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."

Draile posted:

I think it's time for the annual reminder that BarBri's goal is to convince you that you're going to fail.

Yes, but in California, you actually will (well, half of you). And yet there are already too many lawyers here already.

# ¿ Jun 5, 2010 21:02

nm: Jan 28, 2008; "I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."

Ainsley McTree posted:

Is the CA bar actually super-hard, or is the low passage rate mostly due to the fact that a lot of poorly prepared people take it every year? Or a combination of the two?

Both.
The ABA accredited pass rate is still pretty low.

# ¿ Jun 5, 2010 21:42

nm: Jan 28, 2008; "I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."

Kase Im Licht posted:

Isn't the 3rd day only a half day?

ABA pass rate is close to 80%, that's not that bad.

ABA California law school first timers.
All ABA is 67%

# ¿ Jun 5, 2010 23:10

nm: Jan 28, 2008; "I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."

J Miracle posted:

Goons be suin their parents http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3313177

I have that case, except it was a dude and his girlfriend. He's gonna do ~90d in jail.
(The history of DV convictions didn't help him.)

# ¿ Jun 6, 2010 19:37

nm: Jan 28, 2008; "I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."

evilweasel posted:

My firm does.

Oh and the circle continues.
When I worked for a consulting firm before I got into lawyerin' that did expert witness work we billed .25 as well.

# ¿ Jun 9, 2010 04:12

nm: Jan 28, 2008; "I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."

Abugadu posted:

They do talk to each other before they recess for a verdict, they'd likely decided long before they were sent off to deliberate.

They didn't do that. The judge told them not to.

# ¿ Jun 10, 2010 17:35

nm: Jan 28, 2008; "I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."

Spiderjelly posted:

This thread has convinced me not to go through with my plans to take the LSAT and apply to law schools. I'm now reading the FSOT megathread with great interest. Thank you, SA, for dictating my future to me!

Good job all of us.

Honestly, I've been considering that route myself. Turns out you don't get to see the world as a public defender. Who knew?

# ¿ Jun 11, 2010 02:31

nm: Jan 28, 2008; "I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."

blar posted:

You are still saying you slacked off. The difference is Solomon's response makes it sound like you went through a bad period before improving your study habits.

Exactly. They won't care about your grades quite as much if the bad grades were early, and it looks like it was a phase that you learned from.
This doesn't mean they won't dock you, but they will dock you less.

PMan_ posted:

So for almost 5 years now I've been an attorney with a local government agency that represents abused and neglected kids that have been taken away from their families. It's not a bad gig, but it's time for a change. I've been sending out resumes to other government agencies, but I'm also considering firms.

My question is: Does anyone have any tips on how to break out from government work and get into firms, or is it really all just about knowing people? In law school I was all about saving the world, so I kind of stayed away from all the networking opportunities with firms and what not, so I'm kind of on the outside looking in.

The other possible barrier is that I'm in a pretty narrow practice where I am now. I'm in court almost daily, but the law we use, regarding child abuse and neglect, is pretty much used only where I am now, and I don't really dip my feet into any other areas.

What I know about this area of law is that there is a lot of stuff that could be called "trial" experience (my PDs office handles these cases, though I don't know that much about the practice).
You have to realize that the average 5 year civil ligation associate at a mid-big law firm has perhaps argued a couple motions and has little real experience. This is your marketing point. You can learn the applicable areas of civil law faster than someone can learn trial skills.
Expect more luck with local mid firms than big law.
Also, you have a job, so that is a good starting point. You have a big leg up on unemployed 5 year people.

nm fucked around with this message at 19:09 on Jun 11, 2010

# ¿ Jun 11, 2010 19:03

nm: Jan 28, 2008; "I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."

PMan_ posted:

Thanks for the responses, gives me a good place to start. And yes, I am definitely thinking small to mid-size firms, and family law does seem like the best fit.

Family law will make you a bitter person though. (Not that 300s [what we call child custody here in CA] won't)
Chicago eh? I know a bigwig in a biglaw up there, I'll see if I can find anything out about what they think.

# ¿ Jun 11, 2010 20:24

nm: Jan 28, 2008; "I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."

Lykourgos posted:

Don't do it; only go to law school if you want to do criminal law, and even then only go if you get into a school that has a good chance at placing you in a job. Seriously.

If you want to go into criminal law go to law school in the state you wat to practice in, work for a DA/PDs office during law school (likely for free), and expect to need to work for free out of law school for a bit.
This may be different in some areas of the country, but government employment isn't any easier to get than non-poo poo law.
But the lifestyle is better.

Actually, I'd note the county council is far more of a cushy job than criminal law.

# ¿ Jun 15, 2010 00:20

nm: Jan 28, 2008; "I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."

HooKars posted:

Anyone have any really good made-up excuses for wanting to work in a specific state that you have no connection to (and haven't even ever been to)?

What state?
(If California, what part?)

# ¿ Jun 15, 2010 00:56

nm: Jan 28, 2008; "I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."

HooKars posted:

This seems easier for a guy. Do I have to go out and buy a cubic zirconia ring? My story will be awesome... I've already moved to Missouri for the guy, now apparently I'm following him on to Tennessee in my little made up story.

How does this work when you get the job?

Tennessee, make him your cousin.

# ¿ Jun 15, 2010 03:36

nm: Jan 28, 2008; "I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."

Neko Sou posted:

Aside from making you bitter, where does family law fall? I had the impression that ugly divorces aside you could directly help someone without the horrible feeling of "oops I just sent that guy to jail for 15 years" hanging over your head.

Well, there are two types of family law lawyers.
There are the ones that handle divorces between people with lots of assets and then there is shitlaw.
Most (but not all) family people I've met are actually more bitter and cynical than hardened PDs. That said if you can get in the first category (you need to be able to be very nice to your client and very mean to everyone else), you can make a drat good living.

# ¿ Jun 15, 2010 06:16

nm: Jan 28, 2008; "I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."

scribe jones posted:

quit crying, you basically came to the thread saying "okay guys I want to hit myself in the dick with a hammer but home depot is all out of hammers, where else should I check?" then people said "no for gently caress's sake don't hit yourself in the dick with a hammer it will hurt" and you said "look that isn't helpful, just assume that I want to hit myself in the dick with a hammer. should I go to lowe's or ace hardware or what"

This needs to go in the OP.

# ¿ Jun 17, 2010 05:11

nm: Jan 28, 2008; "I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."

Elotana posted:

He's at Texas. And I don't think race is as big a factor in hiring as it is with admissions.

Yes it is.
If you're a URM at a T1 (hell, maybe T2 and into T3) who isn't failing and you just finished your 1L year, I can get you a paid 2L summer position at a good law firm that will turn into a job (around $100k) after your graduate if you don't gently caress up.
No, I am not kidding.
Seriously, PM me if you fit these characteristics and will move to California (or Nevada, but you don't want to move to Nevada)

# ¿ Jun 19, 2010 06:08

nm: Jan 28, 2008; "I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."

i81icu812 posted:

Just checking, but Asian males still don't count as URMs, do they?

Not in California.

# ¿ Jun 19, 2010 08:04

nm: Jan 28, 2008; "I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."

Adar posted:

There are no jobs with small, radical environmental organizations. I mean this literally; there might be, like, six in the US, plus another twenty or thirty permanent internships where they won't ever pay you. That's fine if you're not planning on children, renting an apartment or whatever other middle class thing you might theoretically want to do in the future, but it doesn't matter because most of them will still be going to people just like you except with degrees from Harvard.

Also, the kinds of clients you would want for this type of thing typically have damage claims in the millions or higher. There are hundreds of thousands of lawyers in the US that would metaphorically kill for a case like that and thousands of lawyers that would literally kill for it if they thought they could. You're not getting those cases without major help and you're not getting the contacts you need for that without going to Harvard*.

*and then probably turning corporate, but that's another story

I actually know a firm that specializes in white hats. The white hats better have reasonably deep pockets though, they aren't pro bono.
These are small firms and are few and far between. And everyone wants to work for them, so you better have lots of experience or go to Yale.
Now most environmental law isn't really black and white hats. It is grey hats. BP and shell suing each other over who is responsible for more cleanup costs.

The other white hat role is environmental prosecution but that takes some getting into. Requires some criminal background, etc.

You'd be much better off getting some science MS or something and working for EPA or state agencies in enforcement. Get an MS/MBA and some interesting options open up for you. My aunt has a contract with the feds. right now for finding out the damages caused by BP and what they will owe.

# ¿ Jun 20, 2010 02:13

nm: Jan 28, 2008; "I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."

TyChan posted:

Where the gently caress were you when I was in law school?

Yet another person who wasn't told about the advantages of mid-law.
Your career services people won't tell you about them because careers services sucks and mid-law does bad marketing for students.

# ¿ Jun 23, 2010 05:40

nm: Jan 28, 2008; "I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."

William Munny posted:

nm I sent you a couple of nervous/jittery emails/law student-ish emails. where you at brah?

I've been busy.
I'll get back to you soonish.

# ¿ Jun 25, 2010 05:07

nm: Jan 28, 2008; "I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."

Ainsley McTree posted:

Out of curiosity, what do you think "doing law" is based on one undergrad class?

ACLU stuff.
He'd be happy just making $100k with the ACLU or a PD, he's not expecting to get some high paying big firm job or something

# ¿ Jul 4, 2010 21:11

nm: Jan 28, 2008; "I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."

mrtoodles posted:

Five in a row... booyah. It's fun being smart and poo poo and being up against newbie DA's. I mean... I'm a newbie too but Christ they forget to ask the most basic questions.

Favorite line from closing.

(after DA says my client made a mistake and he was irresponsible and the jury can't just let him off the hook).

"This IS a case about a mistake. Not a mistake that Mr. Jones made though, but a mistake that Officer Smith made. And y'know, no officer wants to arrest an innocent person. I'm not saying Officer Smith arrests innocent people on a regular basis. But it happens. And you know what? That's okay. Because this is America! We have this (gestures around the courtroom at all the participants) for precisely that reason -- to correct mistakes like the completely understandable one officer Smith made that night. So members of the jury, don't think for a moment that if you vote "not guilty" you're letting Mr. Jones off the hook. No, you're letting Officer Smith off the hook! And if he knew all the facts in this case, he'd thank you for that."

Jury deliberates for 20 minutes and asks for full readback of Officer Smith's testimony. Officer Smith's testimony leaves no room for doubt as to the guilt of my client. 15 minutes after readback they return a not guilty verdict. Gun case too. Crap this job feels great when you're winning...

I hate you so much. I have an inability to get a trial out here in hicktown.
So I had an 11550. Guy wanted to go to trial. I wanted to go to trial. Facts were pretty good (almost no indicators, though there was a failed piss test).
I answer ready, the DA pops up and dismisses the drat thing.
Goddammit.

poofactory posted:

High class or highest class?

http://www.claytonlawoffices.net/

I'm sure http://domainsbyproxy.com/ won't fold to a subpoena or anything. At least he was smart enough to do something.

nm fucked around with this message at 02:55 on Jul 7, 2010

# ¿ Jul 7, 2010 02:50

nm: Jan 28, 2008; "I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."

methamphetamine posted:

I'm having a really hard time trying to decide between Boalt and Columbia as a transfer. Boalt would be cheaper as I am in-state, and I want to practice in California. On the other hand I feel the greed for lay prestige making me want to go to Columbia instead. Is this a good idea?

California attorney advice.
Go to Boalt if you want to be a California lawyer. You'll have this thing called an alumni network.

# ¿ Jul 8, 2010 04:56

nm: Jan 28, 2008; "I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."

Lykourgos posted:

wrong thread nublet, this is for lawyers and law students, not pan-handling clients

I'd prefer that over doctor chat.

What the hell happened to taco chat? That was far more fun.

MMMM, al pastor

# ¿ Jul 10, 2010 20:27

nm: Jan 28, 2008; "I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."

BigHead posted:

Take all the Feld classes you can. And Simon. Simon can get you hooked the gently caress up with jobs, and Feld is just 100% awesome.

Simon is the man.

Also take Cribari's small classes. I also recommend the advanced trial practice class if hopeman is teaching it.

# ¿ Jul 11, 2010 06:02

nm: Jan 28, 2008; "I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."

I biked across the country before I went to law school.
Didn't help my GPA any, but it gave me something interesting to talk about, so there.

Also, with your name, you should come work criminal law in the valley.

# ¿ Jul 12, 2010 19:00

nm: Jan 28, 2008; "I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."

Lykourgos posted:

gtfo you ugrad child

Agreed.
It isn't like he got into Yale.

# ¿ Jul 12, 2010 19:32

nm: Jan 28, 2008; "I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."

Linguica posted:

oh. hi

Don't worry about it. She doesn't want some fancy firm job. She's willing to work at the ACLU for only like $80k. She'll be fine, no one from Harvard or Yale wants those jobs.

# ¿ Jul 12, 2010 23:15

nm: Jan 28, 2008; "I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."

beergod posted:

Do you guys actually tell potential non-T 14 law students to just not bother going? I feel like it's my duty to do so (as a citizen of the world), but at the same time who am I to crush dreams? Maybe they'll be the special special snowflakes that gets a biglaw job out of Cooley.

If it is a T1, and they're getting a lot of money to go AND want to be lawyers they can go for it.
Full ride? Better have gotten into YLS.

# ¿ Jul 13, 2010 15:58

nm: Jan 28, 2008; "I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."

CmdrSmirnoff posted:

A dude in some of my classes last semester often had friendly banter with the prosecutor and defence counsel teaching our homicide class - I googled his name and he's one of the top psychiatrists in the country and testifies on all the big murder and sex assault cases (esp. involving children or deviant sexual behaviour).

No idea what the gently caress he's thinking going to law school, since he was also in some totally non-crim classes.

He probably just thinks it is interesting and might help him at some point (knowing the law can be good for expert witnesses, I worked ina firm that did that type of work once).
And unlike us peons, if he is a top expert witness he won't be wallowing in debt and unemployment.

# ¿ Jul 13, 2010 17:50

nm: Jan 28, 2008; "I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."

The Arsteia posted:

hey petey i transferred to the university of minnesota. did i tell you that

This isn't that impressive
I mean even I went there

# ¿ Jul 14, 2010 00:21

nm: Jan 28, 2008; "I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."

Drunken Scourge posted:

btw is there some sort of funny or ironic name for schools that make the top 20 but not T14?

Home of the best unemployed lawyers.

# ¿ Jul 14, 2010 21:35

nm: Jan 28, 2008; "I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."

poofactory posted:

You guys can make all the excuses you want about it being too hard and that's probably why you can't do it. But that's what I did and have been doing for 10+ years.

Shockingly, the legal market was different in the 90s.
Much easier to hang out a shingle then.

# ¿ Jul 14, 2010 23:31

nm: Jan 28, 2008; "I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."

Robawesome posted:

is it possible to become a lawyer with a criminal record?

Yes. Though it can be harder to pass character and fitness.
Depends on the crime though. Caught with some pot? No one cares. Embezzled $5.2 million, I recommend a different career path.

# ¿ Jul 14, 2010 23:45

nm: Jan 28, 2008; "I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."

GamingHyena posted:

You could always find entry level employment as Lindsey Lohan's new attorney of the week. No experience apparently necessary.

Univ of West Los Angeles; Los Angeles CA
A quality institution, only second to Yale.

# ¿ Jul 15, 2010 04:44

nm: Jan 28, 2008; "I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."

mrtoodles posted:

Clearly you should go to UC Davis. Maybe nm and I will still be in the area, miserable and jobless. We will welcome your sensible company.

They actually have a very good ag econ program too.

And Culvers is better than In-n-Out.

Mookie posted:

Davis has Murderburger, home of the Aggie Annihilator and, fittingly, of an actual murder.

Redrum is also overrated (Murderburger got bought years ago and didn't get to keep its name or its food). Now Frank's, that's some good eatin'.

nm fucked around with this message at 05:32 on Jul 16, 2010

# ¿ Jul 16, 2010 05:28

nm: Jan 28, 2008; "I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."

Incredulous Red posted:

I might have given you In n Out being overrated, but Culvers doesn't compare.

No.

# ¿ Jul 16, 2010 15:54

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# ¿ May 16, 2024 03:57

nm: Jan 28, 2008; "I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."

entris posted:

JudicialRestraints why would you agree with that non-attorney in the legal questions thread Don't encourage the rabble, even if they do get lucky and occasionally spout a truth.

Guess who also isn't an attorney.

# ¿ Jul 16, 2010 16:23

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Ask/Tell > Business, Finance, and Careers > Lawyer & Law School Megathread #12: Started Out Barrister, Ended Up Barista

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