Lawyer & Law School Megathread #12: Started Out Barrister, Ended Up Barista

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Ask/Tell > Business, Finance, and Careers > Lawyer & Law School Megathread #12: Started Out Barrister, Ended Up Barista

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Mr Gentleman: Apr 29, 2003; the Educated Villain of London

edit: oops

# ¿ May 10, 2010 04:14

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# ¿ Apr 29, 2024 09:38

Mr Gentleman: Apr 29, 2003; the Educated Villain of London

so I am a little mixed up: is there a civil equivalent to witness tampering charges? how does it work if you tamper with witnesses in a civil case? I think most statutes ostensibly cover tampering with witnesses in both civil and criminal cases, but the statutes themselves are criminal

# ¿ May 26, 2010 04:48

Mr Gentleman: Apr 29, 2003; the Educated Villain of London

fashion law wtf

# ¿ Jun 25, 2010 02:49

Mr Gentleman: Apr 29, 2003; the Educated Villain of London

has anyone seen the clip from some tv court show where they hang some guy upside down as the punishment? I think he was a mortgage broker

# ¿ Jul 13, 2010 04:07

Mr Gentleman: Apr 29, 2003; the Educated Villain of London

IzzyFnStradlin posted:

1. Wentworth Miller II, of LEEWS fame, is the father of Wentworth Miller III, of Prison Break fame.

wait, really??

# ¿ Jul 28, 2010 16:36

Mr Gentleman: Apr 29, 2003; the Educated Villain of London

FartsMcQueen posted:

Seconding the request for interviews tips. Have interviews with some big firms in KC and STL next week and I am terrified.

I feel like for screening interviews, they've already decided by the time they see your transcript. at least if there's no pre-screening. at the firm where I summered, I had a chat with the recruiting people and they were like yeah if your grades aren't up to snuff there's no chance you're going to roll in and win them over with your personality or super cool resume or something.

Mr Gentleman fucked around with this message at 01:04 on Aug 12, 2010

# ¿ Aug 12, 2010 01:01

Mr Gentleman: Apr 29, 2003; the Educated Villain of London

why is allen & overy the only firm you care about?

# ¿ Aug 14, 2010 06:00

Mr Gentleman: Apr 29, 2003; the Educated Villain of London

evilweasel posted:

what the gently caress amazon canceled my order of that book

aaaaaaaaargh you guys snapped up all the other good ones/cheap ones

happened to me too

# ¿ Sep 8, 2010 01:04

Mr Gentleman: Apr 29, 2003; the Educated Villain of London

federal or state?

# ¿ Sep 9, 2010 06:48

Mr Gentleman: Apr 29, 2003; the Educated Villain of London

Konstantin posted:

I found an old Scientology legal threat letter and it turns out that they used a firm called "Johnson, Pope, Bokor, Ruppel, and Burns" as their Florida counsel in 2008.

as in local counsel or what? I would like to be local counsel in E.D. Texas etc etc

# ¿ Sep 10, 2010 07:16

Mr Gentleman: Apr 29, 2003; the Educated Villain of London

CaptainScraps posted:

gently caress NO YOU DON'T.

E.D. Texas has loving draconian rules for discovery involving multi-hour discovery conferencing and an incredibly detailed discovery plan. NO ONE wants to be in the E.D. Texas court.

haha I was really thinking more along the lines of living off the fat of all those patent cases but I guess nothing comes that free

# ¿ Sep 10, 2010 16:42

Mr Gentleman: Apr 29, 2003; the Educated Villain of London

CaptainScraps posted:

Burrito Law the first:

Korean food does not belong in a loving burrito.

Gochujang tastes like poo poo and should not sully what could otherwise have been a mediocre meal.

you're so wrong it hurts

it hurts my balls

# ¿ Sep 12, 2010 17:27

Mr Gentleman: Apr 29, 2003; the Educated Villain of London

billion dollar bitch posted:

http://www.woot.com/Forums/ViewPost.aspx?PostID=4038625

If you don't have one of these, then you deserve every bad thing that comes your way. I was at a party Saturday, there was one of these. Cue pullup contest. I won

i bought one of those to fool around with (i'm really only a runner) but it doesn't "stick" to any of the doorways in my apartment

# ¿ Sep 14, 2010 18:08

Mr Gentleman: Apr 29, 2003; the Educated Villain of London

I always thought done right, a miniseries following some kind of big ticket corporate litigation (not class action toxic torts or something like that maybe some sort of soft IP) could be interesting. something like four or five episodes, and without all the miscellaneous poo poo Damages had. I guess I would be the only person who would watch that.

# ¿ Sep 30, 2010 17:23

Mr Gentleman: Apr 29, 2003; the Educated Villain of London

billion dollar bitch posted:

I'm at CLS. We have like... a hundred LLM's, and environmental law seems to be where they all want to be. So every time the professor asks a question, we get to hear how it is in Israel or the Ukraine or some poo poo like that. It's really annoying. And their accents are atrocious and you can barely understand them. Finally, they're always so pressed with themselves on account of having been A REAL LAWYER in THE OLD COUNTRY when really, if you're so great, why the gently caress do you need an LLM?

this is llm's at any school

# ¿ Sep 30, 2010 17:55

Mr Gentleman: Apr 29, 2003; the Educated Villain of London

the legal market has never actually changed since the 1930s: http://abovethelaw.com/2010/09/back-to-the-future-what-the-j-d-class-of-2011-can-learn-from-indian-law-students-in-1930/#more-38081

I actually can't tell if this is a joke or not

Mr Gentleman fucked around with this message at 17:53 on Oct 1, 2010

# ¿ Oct 1, 2010 17:44

Mr Gentleman: Apr 29, 2003; the Educated Villain of London

Adar posted:

Isn't Quinn NYC like 20 people, though?

FWIW Quinn is a very love hate kind of firm, which I suppose already puts it a cut above the usual hate hate kind of firm.

I think qe nyc has about as many attorneys as qe la

# ¿ Oct 12, 2010 08:11

Mr Gentleman: Apr 29, 2003; the Educated Villain of London

billion dollar bitch posted:

My friend was RA'ing for him this summer. This was their conversation to introduce her to the job and apparently to him.

Wu: And so after law school I clerked and then blah blah blah.
Friend: mmhmmm
Wu: Blah blah blah
Friend: Interesting.
Wu: You do know that when I say clerked, I was using it as a euphemism for "clerked for the Supreme Court. The United States Supreme Court.
Friend: ... Yeah I knew you clerked for Breyer.
Wu: Because sometimes people don't know what that means.
Friend: No, I knew.
Wu: Okay, just making sure.

A chat with my crim law professor a couple years ago:

Me: Hello I have some questions
Her: Hello
(blah blah)
Her: I was a D.A. you know
Me: I know you talk about it in class
Her: I was at the Manhattan District Attorney's office
Me: I know you talk about it in class
Her: "That's the most prestigious prosecutor's office in the world."
Me: Oh that's cool

# ¿ Oct 14, 2010 22:27

Mr Gentleman: Apr 29, 2003; the Educated Villain of London

nm posted:

I doubt that's true. Probably SF or LA county for DA, they certainly pay a lot more (SF starts at 98k). Alameda is probably the best though.

Also, the answer is US attorney's office somewhere.

I actually agree with her man, at least for DA offices

USAO I think would be SDNY, CD Cal, EDNY, DDC, blah blah (not in any order except SDNY up top) sure but for DA offices? I don't think LA is the same as Manhattan and I'm a California dude

edit: sorry grumblefish cook county is here somewhere

Mr Gentleman fucked around with this message at 06:26 on Oct 15, 2010

# ¿ Oct 15, 2010 06:22

Mr Gentleman: Apr 29, 2003; the Educated Villain of London

I guess another way to think about it is would you take Manhattan DA or what USAO? at the upper levels its just a snob snob whatever but like the USAO for New Mexico or Kansas or something? come on

# ¿ Oct 15, 2010 06:31

Mr Gentleman: Apr 29, 2003; the Educated Villain of London

Oldsrocket_27 posted:

judging by responses, I think i need to clarify:

I mentioned intellectual property because I find it interesting, so that's the direction I'd like to go if it's possible. I don't mind if I don't end up in a big firm, or make shittons of cash, or any of that. I want to do something I find interesting for a living. If that's not possible, so be it, I'm just trying to give a general idea of what interests me. I know full well that i'm not smart enough/didn't score high enough on the LSAT/don't have the best undergrad degree(though the academic advidors at my college were insistent that it was not so much an issue. they could be wrong and I wouldn't know. It;s too late now) at to get into a top tier school. I would be satisfied going to a t2 school and getting a job in a small firm and just making a living. If that isn't remotely possible, then, fine, I'd more than willing to listen to suggestions of other areas of law that would be more fitting. I do have my mind set on law, and I have spent a lot of time considering my other options, and i'd appreciate if we could avoid repeating all of the OP's information about why law school is a bad idea. I've read it time and again, and I know the kind of debt/job market hell that it entails. I'm looking for advice here, not a flat out "you're too stupid, go away"

I think you're under the misperception that all this advice is only for people who want to "end up in a big firm, or make shittons of cash, or any of that" and isn't applicable to those who would 'settle' (lol) for government jobs or "a job in a small firm and just making a living"

a dude I know who went to notre dame law school went out of his way toeing that same line when I told him not to go to school a couple years ago, and now he's hosed!

Mr Gentleman fucked around with this message at 23:16 on Nov 1, 2010

# ¿ Nov 1, 2010 23:14

Mr Gentleman: Apr 29, 2003; the Educated Villain of London

where is grumblefish btw

# ¿ Dec 29, 2010 04:26

Mr Gentleman: Apr 29, 2003; the Educated Villain of London

anyone have a decent crim pro (bail to jail) outline that they can send me? I've got PM

# ¿ Jan 19, 2011 18:32

Mr Gentleman: Apr 29, 2003; the Educated Villain of London

has anyone figured out how to speed up barbri videos good god this is terrible

# ¿ May 20, 2011 18:32

Mr Gentleman: Apr 29, 2003; the Educated Villain of London

quotison posted:

Yes.

sadly that doesn't seem to work this year (I think a poster mentioned they changed the video format)

# ¿ May 20, 2011 19:52

Mr Gentleman: Apr 29, 2003; the Educated Villain of London

Soothing Vapors posted:

How To Watch Barbri Videos At 1.6x Speed After They hosed Everything Up
By Soothing Vapours, Age Six

Dearest BarBros,
1.) Download + install Internet Download Manager (30 day free trial, maybe you can find it ~somewhere~ online for cheap when the trial runs out)
2.) Load gayass BarBri vid. I seem to have to load them 2-3 times before that poo poo pops up, but eventually you get a IDM button that says "Download This Video"
3.) Download This Video
4.) Open in VLC, Playback > Faster, Playback > Faster (Fine)
5.)

if this works i love you

# ¿ May 25, 2011 01:03

Mr Gentleman: Apr 29, 2003; the Educated Villain of London

MEET ME BY DUCKS posted:

Stanford is probably even more difficult to get into than Harvard, I don't know what gave you the idea they're any easier (besides the rankings). SLS sent me some sample resumes last year, and these were for URMs. They were insane. I suppose SLS might have a lower median GPA but that's probably because they get more URM applicants, being in California.

Not trying to be a downer, but don't set your sights on Stanford thinking their admissions are easier than Harvard or even Yale. On the other hand, as someone going to HYS and having almost not applied due to the assumption of swift rejections, apply.

SLS admissions is kind of weird, and I suspect it's from the school being tiny and in California. I'm not totally sure what extra bits they like to see besides good numbers, but I got in when I applied 3 years ago as a California native who was looking to stay permanently in California even though my resume was pretty lackluster. I feel like they liked that. I'm not URM either (east asian).

# ¿ Jun 30, 2011 21:13

Mr Gentleman: Apr 29, 2003; the Educated Villain of London

why would cats care about cheese gently caress

# ¿ Dec 29, 2011 05:42

Mr Gentleman: Apr 29, 2003; the Educated Villain of London

my friend at an NYC firm tried to get a box of tissues from a secretary and was refused because "tissues are for partners"

# ¿ Feb 29, 2012 19:53

Mr Gentleman: Apr 29, 2003; the Educated Villain of London

Ani posted:

I don't post that much in this thread anymore, but I'm a first-year associate at a biglaw firm in New York, practicing transactional law.

My hours vary a lot; my worst week was probably ~80 billable hours, and it's not uncommon to have a stretch of a few days / ruined weekend to meet a deadline. Some weeks, though, I'm not really busy at all and I read books in the office from 10-5pm and hide to avoid work. In general, regardless of where you are, it's always possible to get a call or an email requiring you to come back to work, though that happens very rarely to me because I've tried to avoid the kinds of deals where that happens. My firm is known for having really long hours, and I suspect I have billed and worked among the fewest hours of the first-years doing transactional work.

Working from home vs. in the office depends on the deal and the partner you're working for; for me it's generally fine, but I find I'm significantly more productive in the office so I try to work there as much as possible.

My ratio of billed hours to worked hours really depends on how busy I am. I pretty much need to be in the office on weekdays from 10-5 or so even if there's nothing for me to do, so on those days or weeks my ratio is terrible. On the other hand, when a deal is busy I would estimate that almost all of my worked time is billable. Any time that I spend in the office after hours or on the weekends is billable, so when you have a lot of that time, your ratio improves.

A first year in my class billed 320+ hours _before_ the end of _February_, but he by far exceeded the norm. I really just wanted to post that number because it's astonishing to me. But I have extremely good hours due to the nature of the cases I'm on and the partners running those cases. At my firm, at least, the % of total worked time that's actually billed time is thankfully pretty high.

# ¿ Mar 10, 2012 19:56

Mr Gentleman: Apr 29, 2003; the Educated Villain of London

Ani posted:

Do you mean that he billed more than 320 hours in just Feb, because if so, that's crazy. If you mean that he billed more than 320 hours in January and some of Feb, that's not crazy at all - I hit 320 somewhere in early Feb this year.

Nope, 320 just in February alone (a few days before the end of February, too)

HiddenReplaced posted:

Are you saying someone billed 14 hours a day every day?

He got totally crushed by two different teams he was on getting hot on work at the same time (and some other unfortunate coincidences)

Mr Gentleman fucked around with this message at 18:28 on Mar 11, 2012

# ¿ Mar 11, 2012 18:20

Mr Gentleman: Apr 29, 2003; the Educated Villain of London

qwertyman posted:

I have a poster I want to put up in my office. It's a poster of an organization I ran as a 3L. Cool imagery, instant conversation starter, very humanizing. The area of law that the organization handled caused a potential conflict with a small department in the firm that I doubt I'll ever deal with. However, the partner in charge of that department (that I otherwise have no dealings with) has explicitly said that the firm is conflicted out from doing pro bono work on the type of work this organization did.

Would there be a problem with hanging this poster in my office?

would anyone actually give a poo poo at your firm?

# ¿ May 2, 2012 15:47

Mr Gentleman: Apr 29, 2003; the Educated Villain of London

I'm on track to bill 2400+ but it's really not bad. my firm requires almost nothing in terms of non-billable time, so it's not like I'm working 10 hours to bill 5 hours. if I'm in the office, I'm billing. I think I have like 14 hours of work for the whole year that hasn't been billable. but the firm is also jammed with work.

also being slow at work sucks; my friend just got stealth fired as a first-year.

# ¿ Jul 27, 2012 16:17

Mr Gentleman: Apr 29, 2003; the Educated Villain of London

commish posted:

I'd punch myself in the eye with a fork if I had to work 2400 hours in a year. If I had to work that much, I'd have left the firm for an in-house position long ago.

really? that's like 50 hours a week over 48 weeks.

I mean I could understand if you were working 70 hours a week to bill those 50 hours a week, but actually working 50 hours a week is very reasonable.

# ¿ Jul 27, 2012 18:59

Mr Gentleman: Apr 29, 2003; the Educated Villain of London

yeah, I do both (I mean look I'm posting right now), so there is some time on top. it's just that there is tons of poo poo to do. I always have work backed up in the pipeline, so I never spend any time, e.g., sitting around the office waiting for something to get kicked down. from talking to my friends at various firms, my understanding is that's where a lot of the wasted time is going. (that and crap like admin meetings, making firm newsletters, etc.)

# ¿ Jul 27, 2012 19:11

Mr Gentleman: Apr 29, 2003; the Educated Villain of London

I guess I don't really have a point to make here aside that billing 2400 or whatever can encompass vastly different experiences; I know people getting crushed doing it, but through whatever confluence of factors, it's decent for me. I play soccer, fool around with my hobbies, do stuff with my s/o, etc. it was just that post earlier about 2500 hours that got me thinking about this.

Mr Gentleman fucked around with this message at 19:21 on Jul 27, 2012

# ¿ Jul 27, 2012 19:17

Mr Gentleman: Apr 29, 2003; the Educated Villain of London

Omerta posted:

I think that's a big exaggeration. I've had partners show me associate billing lists and the average in notorious sweatshops (in Atlanta) was around 2150-2250. Full disclaimer: I don't know poo poo about the Northeast.

And even if the firm did have 2400 billables as a requirement, they certainly wouldn't tell you in the interview.

I can see it being soul-crushing if you were transactional or something so your billable time would be split between 4 hour days and 16 hour days.

yeah, transactional loving sucks; my friend who works "less" than me has a way worse life because he always ends up canceling anything he schedules for fun, while at the same time has to sit in the office doing nothing at times because he isn't sure when work is going to show up

during oci, I found that places with strangely low billable requirements (I guess, e.g., 1600-1800 hours, adjust as needed for your city/practice area) needed more scrutiny. not all of them were bogus, but I felt a lot of people ignored three things: (1) what you needed to bill on paper vs. what you needed to bill to not get fired; (2) whether the line was so low because hitting that line was actually tough to do (which suggests various lovely things); and (3) whether you would need to be sitting at the office for 2500 hours a year anyways because of admin stuff/waiting for assignments/etc.

I feel like most (but not all) people I knew who chose firms based on low billables ended up working just as much, or at least spent just as much time at the office, as people who chose firms with notoriously high billables.

Mr Gentleman fucked around with this message at 21:37 on Jul 27, 2012

# ¿ Jul 27, 2012 21:34

Mr Gentleman: Apr 29, 2003; the Educated Villain of London

commish posted:

What year are you? I don't mean this as an insult at all, but this mindset is how I was when I first started as a junior associate. As I get more senior, I'm finding that 50 hours billed as a first year is far different than billing 50 hours now. And whatever practice area you are in, it's hard to avoid peaks and valleys in your hours, unless you just do massive amounts of doc review/diligence (which also allows you to be more efficient with your time spent in the office).

first year. and I can agree with this given what more senior associates do; although our senior associates are logjammed like crazy too (as in people are having difficulty even staffing new cases). those guys appear to range from living at the office to very reasonable hours at the office. I will say I do zero doc review now (I have done a little). again, like I said above, I don't have any real point to make. I just wanted to convey my experience because the guy who mentioned billing 2500 hours made me think about my own numbers and what it's been like.

Mr Gentleman fucked around with this message at 07:27 on Jul 28, 2012

# ¿ Jul 28, 2012 07:21

Mr Gentleman: Apr 29, 2003; the Educated Villain of London

evilweasel posted:

Alright we've got 9/12 slots filled: I'm thinking of dropping this to 10 man unless there's suddenly some more people.

im interested - should i just pm you my yahoo id

# ¿ Aug 30, 2014 13:09

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# ¿ Apr 29, 2024 09:38

Mr Gentleman: Apr 29, 2003; the Educated Villain of London

Staryberry posted:

There is no harm in talking to a recruiter about shopping your resume around. If something good pops up, then you can jump ship, if not, you can wait to see if the hammer drops where you are.

I would caveat that there are a lot of lovely recruiters around who will just blanket your resume across town to lay claim to it so be a bit careful here since that might make it harder to move -- the recruiter fee does turn off people unless you're above the rest of the stack

# ¿ Sep 4, 2014 12:29

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Ask/Tell > Business, Finance, and Careers > Lawyer & Law School Megathread #12: Started Out Barrister, Ended Up Barista

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