Lawyer & Law School Megathread #12: Started Out Barrister, Ended Up Barista

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Ask/Tell > Business, Finance, and Careers > Lawyer & Law School Megathread #12: Started Out Barrister, Ended Up Barista

soj89: Dec 5, 2005; Kids in China are playing tag with knives, on playgrounds constructed of spinning razorblades and spike traps, because it will make them stronger.

CmdrSmirnoff posted:

Finding solid Canadian employment numbers is basically impossible. The best you'll usually find are surveys run by each school's CSO, but even then you'll get like a 40% no-reply rate.

However, while looking, I stumbled on these guys, who are something of a suicide hotline for lawyers. Come check out uplifting newsletters like "Life After Divorce" or "Living with Chronic Pain".

edit: Hey Sib, sucks about the rejection from Osgoode. If it makes you feel better, they just moved to a holistic system and the admission chances have become completely random. Also the school sucks right now because the entire building is locked down and under construction. Even our library was packed away into boxes, though some materials were moved onto stacks in the basement of a nursing building

edit 2: Hireback numbers for Toronto are coming out and...goddamn. FMC only hired 7/14, with 3 of them clerking next year anyway. Cassels got 10/17. BLG did 17 of 25 (29 total students - 4 dropped out). And apparently Blakes is offering short-term contracts to students instead of hiring them. (note to American readers: these are some of our major firms)

This is a bit horrifying. I'm applying for articles this summer. I heard that most firms haven't changed their hiring for articles yet but do you think the smaller and mid-size firms will cut back? Not getting a 2L OCI is a bitch. It pretty much locks you out of the big boys on Bay Street.

Any tips you have on articles in Toronto would be helpful!

Actually, one more thing: if they want a writing sample, what would you send? a part of a factum or part of a "research paper"? The factum was from an option moot in 2L, I also have samples from research papers for two paper courses...

soj89 fucked around with this message at 22:52 on May 7, 2010

# ¿ May 7, 2010 22:41

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# ¿ May 16, 2024 04:26

soj89: Dec 5, 2005; Kids in China are playing tag with knives, on playgrounds constructed of spinning razorblades and spike traps, because it will make them stronger.

CmdrSmirnoff posted:

Yeah, good point.

If any Canadians are interested in the Toronto numbers this year, these guys keep an accurate tally. Last years were miserable as well, but unfortunately there's no data for earlier articling numbers.

Fucccccccck. So how the hell are we supposed to get articles, let alone a job if we didn't get the 2nd year OCI? This is bullshit.

Not keen enough to be a gunner, not stupid enough to be kept out of law school... *sigh*

# ¿ May 11, 2010 05:19

soj89: Dec 5, 2005; Kids in China are playing tag with knives, on playgrounds constructed of spinning razorblades and spike traps, because it will make them stronger.

You guys must have some really nutso civpro exams. Ours was 50 multiple choice 10 true false and a 5 mark short answer. What's the American one like?

# ¿ May 14, 2010 18:11

soj89: Dec 5, 2005; Kids in China are playing tag with knives, on playgrounds constructed of spinning razorblades and spike traps, because it will make them stronger.

BigHead posted:

Two semesters with 8 hour take homes, three questions each, 12 page limit. Each exam had a question, and I quote, "How do you feel about the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure? Be sure to cite specifics." The other two questions were lovely issue spotting. 92% of the class got Bs.

You gotta be loving kidding me? Two semesters? We barely learned anything in our civpro class. Basically reciting rules from the Ontario Civpro book. We weren't allowed notes into the exam though, just your book. It turned into a contest of who could flip to the right Rule the fastest.

(One semester, SECOND(!!!) year)

# ¿ May 14, 2010 19:52

soj89: Dec 5, 2005; Kids in China are playing tag with knives, on playgrounds constructed of spinning razorblades and spike traps, because it will make them stronger.

JudicialRestraints posted:

Someone I hate is working as a summer clerk for Army JAG (1L)

Will this translate into a job for them?

Think you should be more worried about the fact that they'll teach him to kill with his bare hands...

# ¿ May 14, 2010 20:24

soj89: Dec 5, 2005; Kids in China are playing tag with knives, on playgrounds constructed of spinning razorblades and spike traps, because it will make them stronger.

TyChan posted:

You know, the thing is that there is a remote chance that the market might recover enough that if you time it right, you're the 2L in the best year to be a 2L as law firms are looking for associates they "can" bill out at low rates. Lawyers are the kinds of people who latch on to remote chances, so the objectively low probability of this happening unless you're an expert in economic trends is not a deterrent.

This trait actually kind of helps when you're working as a lawyer. Sometimes, you'll have a losing argument and your only remotely colorable argument is a long shot that you have to put forth with extreme conviction. Anything less than a zealot's passion is like the unveiling of the emperor's new clothes.

By the way, I checked this Western's tuition rates. $32K a year just for tuition for a low tier law school? Jesus. I think that's even more than I paid for U.Va. as an in-state student.

It will probably go up as time goes on too.

I don't think the question should be whether you can get a job at a lower-tiered law school. The question really should be "can I get a job that will make the tuition worth it?" because a JD is not like a bachelor's degree where you seemingly need it nowadays just to prove to any employer that you're not a mouth-breathing idiot.

If only the American high school diploma was still worth a drat.

Has she considered moving out of the hell-hole US Legal Economy? The job market in Canada isn't *as* bad as it is down there. Vancouver and Toronto have large-ish legal markets and the tuition as a foreign student wouldn't be nearly as bad. That or apply to Hong Kong/UK and get your LLB converted? I think the Canada route is better though - most of our schools have converted to the JD already.

# ¿ May 28, 2010 16:47

soj89: Dec 5, 2005; Kids in China are playing tag with knives, on playgrounds constructed of spinning razorblades and spike traps, because it will make them stronger.

Articling interview with a personal injury firm tomorrow. Any words of advice?

# ¿ Jul 6, 2010 02:12

soj89: Dec 5, 2005; Kids in China are playing tag with knives, on playgrounds constructed of spinning razorblades and spike traps, because it will make them stronger.

CmdrSmirnoff posted:

Articling (and OCI I guess) Call Day is literally the worst day in law school

How did it go for you? I thought you were just doing Ottawa? How many interviews?

# ¿ Jul 23, 2010 15:22

soj89: Dec 5, 2005; Kids in China are playing tag with knives, on playgrounds constructed of spinning razorblades and spike traps, because it will make them stronger.

CmdrSmirnoff posted:

3 interviews out of 12 apps, which is a crazy good ratio considering a couple friends got 0/80some.

Got a downtown Toronto prosecution gig but the Department of Justice rejected me

How'd you do?

7/53. Mostly litigation firms, one corporate/real estate. All mid-sized. Nothing from the big boys.

I missed out on one interview because my line was busy talking to another firm. They called twice but not a third time.

# ¿ Jul 23, 2010 22:40

soj89: Dec 5, 2005; Kids in China are playing tag with knives, on playgrounds constructed of spinning razorblades and spike traps, because it will make them stronger.

No calls yesterday after a week of ridiculousness and 2 second interviews. Think I'll find a bridge to jump off of now.

# ¿ Aug 12, 2010 14:57

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# ¿ May 16, 2024 04:26

soj89: Dec 5, 2005; Kids in China are playing tag with knives, on playgrounds constructed of spinning razorblades and spike traps, because it will make them stronger.

CmdrSmirnoff posted:

Sorry

4 interviews, one tentative offer - me and him have an understanding that I'm not the best candidate for the job (not because of qualifications, but because his practice area is changing and it's not what I really want to do), but he might give me a call today to discuss things.

A friend got a call from a firm that she's third on their list. An hour later, they call again: "the two people ahead of you accepted. Well, peace."

edit: yeah that's gonna be my dilemma. It's a crim lawyer trying to start up a class action, which as far as career development goes wouldn't be a great move for me. On the other hand, it's a job for next year. Fuuuuuuuck.

Take the job. You can always lateral.

# ¿ Aug 12, 2010 18:33

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Ask/Tell > Business, Finance, and Careers > Lawyer & Law School Megathread #12: Started Out Barrister, Ended Up Barista