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Hedgehog Pie posted:I actually have a very nice picture of my brother and his fiancee at Trevi from not long before covid. It's possible they were just really lucky, I can't remember what time of year they went. We were there in April two years ago and staying right on the corner of it for five days, so I got a pretty good idea of the crowds - but it might be slightly better in October. It was busy at 11pm and 8am, and it was absolutely jam packed - like you'd have to push your way to actually get to the fountain itself - from like 10am until 9pm. Even going around the very edge of the square to get to our apartment was a pain in the rear end, having to shove through a bunch of abysmal quality Italian cuisine restaurants run by aggressive south Asian touts, and shove through ravenous packs of selfie takers. It was like this for about 14 hours a day and one of the spots I've hated the most in years of travel:  Ferdinand Bardamu posted:Garda is incredible, I'd go there over driving through the Dolomites (which are also nice) since you live in Switzerland. One thing I'd recommend for September/October hiking in the Bozen area is to hike the Chestnut Trail / Keschtnweg. I would take the train to Brixen/Bressanone and walk from the station up a hill to the start of the trail. I would make it to Chiusa, where you have to wander past an abbey that overlooks the town. The Alpe di Siusi / Schlern is across the narrow valley, always in eyesight, while you walk. It's where Terrence Malick filmed part of his last movie. We've spent a fair amount of time in Garda, probably at least two weeks all together. Absolutely a top-notch destination for us, but I'll probably head back there later in spring with a different friend who wants go to climbing in Arco, so at least for this trip we'll pass by it. Chiusa looks nice, and I wanted anyway to find an excuse to drive over the Gardena pass. We had a ski trip with friends booked for Corvara in mid-March 2020 that obviously never happened, and I've been hoping to get there for four years now. We'd be going like Sept 1-Sept 14, so it'd be quite a bit before any fall colors start.
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Apr 3, 2024 09:08
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Jesus the internet and cheap flights were a mistake... Wish I could have visited 10 years ago when I had the opportunity 
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Apr 3, 2024 09:21
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Chikimiki posted:Jesus the internet and cheap flights were a mistake... Wish I could have visited 10 years ago when I had the opportunity Well, this is what it looked like in 2004:  which is how I remember it the first time I went in 2009. Still super crowded, but you could actually get to where you want to go if you were slightly dedicated. The other photo was taken in September 2018. which went from "crowded" to "pure Disney-esque misery." E: Actually I exaggerated a bit, at 9:20am on a Thursday in early April, we were able to get up to it with no problem.  But in the early afternoon it was as terrible as in the stock photo. This was around 11:50am in February 2011, on a Tuesday:  So actually I guess in the morning it's fine. It was mega crowded enough like the first photo often enough that that's my memory of it, but apparently I remember it as worse than it actually was. Even though we stayed right next to it for 5 days, the only photos we took were at 9am on that Thursday - which was like our third day there. Saladman fucked around with this message at 09:54 on Apr 3, 2024 |
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Apr 3, 2024 09:46
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Glad it's not like that all the time. Still, I stand by my point that the internet, and especially social media, was a great mistake
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Apr 3, 2024 09:54
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Chikimiki posted:Glad it's not like that all the time. Still, I stand by my point that the internet, and especially social media, was a great mistake Agreed. At least Facebook and Twitter are dead now. I kinda like Instagram, but yeah it did lead to the death of any "hidden gem," at least in Western Europe. Now that I liked a couple posts I looked for about hiking in the Dolomites, half my IG feed is now recommending dozens of different hikes in the Dolomites. Looks great, but definitely will lead to thousands of people like me going to those same places. (I am aware that I am part of the problem.)
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Apr 3, 2024 09:55
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Saladman posted:Agreed. At least Facebook and Twitter are dead now. I kinda like Instagram, but yeah it did lead to the death of any "hidden gem," at least in Western Europe. Now that I liked a couple posts I looked for about hiking in the Dolomites, half my IG feed is now recommending dozens of different hikes in the Dolomites. Looks great, but definitely will lead to thousands of people like me going to those same places. (I am aware that I am part of the problem.) Oh I realize I am complaining about the very thing I am using, and that I am part of the problem as well. But yeah IG is big on travel, in LatAm and SEAsia as well. TikTok too on a smaller scale. I get recommendations for everything, from luxury through backpacking to dark tourism. Basically only boring destinations won't be on it. Let's hope the bubble will explode just like it did for FB and twitter, and we get back to using dead gay comedy forums
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Apr 3, 2024 10:27
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Bit of a weird question, I'm European but I've never flown to/through Madrid. I'm looking at flights to NYC in November and one of the options has an 18hr layover in Madrid (arriving there in the evening and flying out again in the afternoon). I don't know the airport and the local public transport, how feasible would it be to get there, get to a hotel to sleep and then spend the morning in Madrid before getting back to the airport to fly out? And what would be some must-sees that can be done in the morning?
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Apr 3, 2024 12:08
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Grillfiend posted:Bit of a weird question, I'm European but I've never flown to/through Madrid. I'm looking at flights to NYC in November and one of the options has an 18hr layover in Madrid (arriving there in the evening and flying out again in the afternoon). I don't know the airport and the local public transport, how feasible would it be to get there, get to a hotel to sleep and then spend the morning in Madrid before getting back to the airport to fly out? And what would be some must-sees that can be done in the morning? Barajas is a decent airport in my experience, but passport control for non-Schengen flights was a bit chaotic when I was there. I guess you'll still be able to fly through the self-service gates though! It's connected well via the metro and, I think, the cercanias suburban trains. With the metro it took me about 50 minutes to get into the city centre with one or two changes. Nuevos Ministerios station, where the airport line terminates, is a bit of a maze but not too bad. So I'd say it's more than feasible. I'm not sure what you might be able to do in just the morning but the centre is pleasant enough to just walk around. 🙂
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Apr 3, 2024 14:38
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Grillfiend posted:Bit of a weird question, I'm European but I've never flown to/through Madrid. I'm looking at flights to NYC in November and one of the options has an 18hr layover in Madrid (arriving there in the evening and flying out again in the afternoon). I don't know the airport and the local public transport, how feasible would it be to get there, get to a hotel to sleep and then spend the morning in Madrid before getting back to the airport to fly out? And what would be some must-sees that can be done in the morning? Yeah, the airport can be a bit disorganised but it’s directly on the metro so easy to get to. Just stay on that line. And honestly, depending on when your flight out is, you can probably do the Prado or Reina Sofia in the morning - both open at 10am and both are quite small for their quality, so go get churros and chocolate, do the one of your choice 10-noon, get a ham sandwich for lunch (it’s Spain, get the ham) and get back on the metro to the airport.
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Apr 4, 2024 07:00
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On the topic of Italy, I recently booked a trip for mid-October, getting a steep discount on business class seats (just under twice the price of economy!). I'll be there for two weeks, planning to spend half my time and Rome and the other half out of Florence. My question is about the latter; I had plans on going to other towns in Tuscany while I was there, but I don't drive and would need to take buses/trains to get around. I have Siena/Lucca on places to consider, any other suggestions on where to go for someone based in Florence with no car?
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Apr 4, 2024 17:35
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Petanque posted:On the topic of Italy, I recently booked a trip for mid-October, getting a steep discount on business class seats (just under twice the price of economy!). I'll be there for two weeks, planning to spend half my time and Rome and the other half out of Florence. My question is about the latter; I had plans on going to other towns in Tuscany while I was there, but I don't drive and would need to take buses/trains to get around. I have Siena/Lucca on places to consider, any other suggestions on where to go for someone based in Florence with no car? Ravenna might be a bit far for train or bus (outside Tuscany, but certainly not an impossible side quest), wife and I did a day trip to there from Bologna a few years back and it was absolutely worth it. By far the largest collection of extant buildings from the 5th-7th centuries anywhere in Europe, including the only Ostrogothic structure still in existence. If you're into Ancient Rome and/or medieval history it's a bucket list town.
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Apr 4, 2024 18:30
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Petanque posted:On the topic of Italy, I recently booked a trip for mid-October, getting a steep discount on business class seats (just under twice the price of economy!). I'll be there for two weeks, planning to spend half my time and Rome and the other half out of Florence. My question is about the latter; I had plans on going to other towns in Tuscany while I was there, but I don't drive and would need to take buses/trains to get around. I have Siena/Lucca on places to consider, any other suggestions on where to go for someone based in Florence with no car? San Gimignano to pretend you are in Aassains Creed II (also a beautiful small walled town). Cinque Terra. Five towns on the coast but is a little further so maybe an overnight stop from Florence.
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Apr 4, 2024 19:04
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Bologna and you could try and see if you can get a package or tour for San G, Colle di val d'elsa and monteriggioni in one go. I don't think there are train connections there, but maybe a bus tour or private driver or something. You can do San G in 4 hours, Colle in 2 and Monteriggioni in 1 (guesstimating, I've been several times in different ways so I don't quite remember the times spent).
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Apr 4, 2024 20:51
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Petanque posted:On the topic of Italy, I recently booked a trip for mid-October, getting a steep discount on business class seats (just under twice the price of economy!). I'll be there for two weeks, planning to spend half my time and Rome and the other half out of Florence. My question is about the latter; I had plans on going to other towns in Tuscany while I was there, but I don't drive and would need to take buses/trains to get around. I have Siena/Lucca on places to consider, any other suggestions on where to go for someone based in Florence with no car? There won’t be any real way to use public transport to get to the smaller Tuscan cities, like Volterra or San Gimignano. If it’s your first time in the area, and you only have one week, and since you’re in shoulder season (but still with great weather, most likely), your first idea sounds really nice - Florence, Sienna, and pick either Lucca or Bologna if you really want. FYI that Pisa sucks except for the campanile, so if you do go there, make sure it’s like a half-day trip and you don’t overnight. If you spend 3 days in Siena then you’d probably want to go to the Tuscan countryside, but you’d need to hire a private driver or go with a tour group. This should be easy to arrange on the spot, like with AirBnB experiences. I’ve only been around there driving, but I have a fair number of friends who won’t drive in Italy, with its third world traffic standards combined with strict adherence to obscure rules like ZTLs, and the confusing mixture of posted speed limits sometimes being a joke, and sometimes actually being meaningful. Also since you’re not going with a car, keep in mind that changing hotels sucks and costs you at least a couple of daytime hours checking in and checking out and figuring out what to do with your bags or going back to the hotel to recollect them. So you could do like 3 days Florence, 2 Siena, 2 Lucca, but you could also do 4 Florence and 3 Sienna. I’d strongly recommend only traveling by train as well - which will be fine with the itinerary you were mentioning.
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Apr 4, 2024 21:43
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I'll second Bologna and Ravenna, even if they aren't in Tuscany. I've also been to Siena, Lucca, and San G a few times without using a car. I've never been to Pisa or Cinque Terre, because both seem like a massive waste of time and in the case of CT, a waste of energy and money.
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Apr 4, 2024 22:54
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Cinque Terre is fun despite being a massive tourist shithole. Hell, even Pisa is doable. Just take that goddamn picture and check out the rest of the city, which is just very european in that mom and pop shops are being replaced with recognizable chains, but if you keep your eyes open you can still end up in that quintessential italian experience with a nice wine at a canal served by a 50 year old waiter who might pop out an italian ballad once the classical band shows up. This will not happen in Florence, possibly also not in Pisa anymore, because I'm old.
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Apr 4, 2024 23:01
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Hell, it’s 2h by high speed train, so a long day trip, but you could even make Milan work if you want that as a change of pace.
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Apr 5, 2024 07:29
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Cinque Terre is nice. They don’t have an "off" season but they do have a "not insane" season, which is any time from mid September to mid June. Vernazza gets packed to the walls, but the other 4 towns don’t get nearly so crowded, and they’re all chill in the evening / night, even in summer, as the vast majority of people there are day trippers. Still, there are equally beautiful places in Italy that can be visited in summer without being in a Hajj-like crush of tourists, like the Amalfi coast or the northern lakes. Not that I’d recommend any of those for the poster traveling to Italy by public transport in October. Ferdinand Bardamu posted:I've also been to San G a few times without using a car Ah, yeah I see actually from Siena it’s not too bad, direct hourly bus, takes 50 min. From Florence it was terrible. (No directs, ~2 hours each way.)
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Apr 5, 2024 07:32
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The Cinque Terre trails are gorgeous hikes. I wish it didn't rain as much when I was there, would have loved to do more segments instead of just one.
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Apr 5, 2024 15:44
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Coco13 posted:The Cinque Terre trails are gorgeous hikes. I wish it didn't rain as much when I was there, would have loved to do more segments instead of just one. Yeah, only one was open when I was there like 11 years ago, but it was great.
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Apr 5, 2024 17:00
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Do check the trails in advance though especially if you're not visiting all of the towns. When I visited many years ago, I only went to one and the trails were shut either side of it
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Apr 5, 2024 18:45
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The two built up walkway parts of the trail is still closed for reconstruction until supposedly July of this year. Those are the easy parts that aren’t much of a hike but offer a nice short connection between the towns and a great view. The rest of it is open, and with the easy parts closed, you can still hike between those towns, but the route is literally “over” 2 mountains where the rest of the trail is “across” the mountains. You can also just catch the train to skip those sections. Note also that you have to pay for a pass to be on some parts of the trail. I liked CT, apart from all the people of course. But you won’t find many of the tourists along the trails. I will say the food there is not as good as the rest of Italy, and it’s hard to even sit without a reservation. Elysium fucked around with this message at 19:40 on Apr 5, 2024 |
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Apr 5, 2024 19:27
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Thanks for the advice everyone. I was kind of thinking of using day trips from Florence as tastes of other places I might spend more time at on a future trip (and I imagine there will be one, given how delicious I find Italian cuisine). Bologna and Ravenna seem like a great follow-up for the next time I visit. On a previous trip to the Benelux region, my favourite part was staying in Ghent, and Bologna seems like it could be in the same genre of a university city with a well-preserved historic centre.
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Apr 5, 2024 19:58
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Alright, got our Slovenia and Dolomites trip all set for September; my friend bought her tickets yesterday into and out of ZRH. We've got 12 days including the flight days, both of which are at 10am, so the first day that allows us to still do quite a bit. So, 11 days to figure out what to do in case of good weather, and a backup of something interesting to do in each area in case of bad weather. Maybe a best question for the Bolzano person: is there a good hiking app for Italy, like how SuisseMobile has an amazing map of every single route in Switzerland with incredibly precise detail? I know there's AllTrails and OpenStreetMap, but those such junk in comparison... and AllTrails seems to charge a ton of money now for their phone app. E: Finally found it for Italy: https://sentieroitaliamappe.cai.it/index.php/view/map/?repository=sicaipubblico&project=SICAI_Pubblico and they have an iPhone app that's pretty decent. Not quite as good as SuisseMobile but still very helpful. I'm also kinda surprised at how few lakes there are up in the Dolomites. Normally my go-to to plan a hike is to look for high-altitude lakes, then try to find somewhere nearby to bivouac. SwissMobile even helps with that, since it signals grassy areas vs. pebbled areas, so you don't even have to guess. Looks like high altitude bivouacing is OK in Austria and Italy if you're not in a park, and super not allowed in Slovenia under any circumstance. E: Ok, the Laghi di Sopranes lakes look absolutely amazing. That's one route figured out... I guess these are hyper-specific questions that I don't even know where one would ask, since I don't know anyone who has lived in that area and hikes. Country subreddits are pretty useless for hiking information that's more detailed than what someone could find in 5 minutes on Instagram. E2: Now after reading way more about it, wow Switzerland and Austria sure are a lot more relaxed about wild camping and drone flights than Italy and Slovenia. Saladman fucked around with this message at 11:45 on Apr 7, 2024 |
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Apr 6, 2024 21:35
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Any recommendations for multi day hikes in Europe that include accommodations? Something a few steps above staying in a hut. I don't mind paying extra for a package that includes everything. I've done some beautiful day hikes around Bavaria and the Dolomites but open to spending a few more days and exploring some new options. I heard Switzerland has some nice places?
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Apr 7, 2024 09:57
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Busy Bee posted:Any recommendations for multi day hikes in Europe that include accommodations? Something a few steps above staying in a hut. I don't mind paying extra for a package that includes everything. The Haute Route and the Tour du Mont Blanc are the two typical ones that are very well serviced by actually-nice mountain hotels (rather than mountain huts). You can get your stuff sent from hotel to hotel and just have to carry a daypack between them, I think it's not cheap but it's Switzerland so I guess that is pretty obvious. IMHO Haute Route is more beautiful than TdMB, and I've done about 2/3rds of TdMB and maybe 3/4 of the Haute Route, but only as either dayhikes or overnights, never in a continuous stretch. Otherwise I don't think there are many through hikes where you could stay in a hotel every night very easily, it'd either be staying in huts, or a lot of LONG rear end hikes to get from valley to valley where you can get a real hotel. There aren't many real hotels off-roads in the high mountains. Some, just not a lot. There's probably also a through hike in Bern Oberland where you could hike from hotel to hotel, as Bern Oberland also has a lot of mountain hotels. Do be aware though that the SAC's mountain "huts" are actually still very nice inside, spotlessly clean, and pretty much identical to a ski mid-lift station where you'd have lunch and stuff. It's just dormitory sleeping which is the (to me) unbearable downside, which is also why I don't stay in huts unless 100% obliged to do so. Going to sleep is fine, but someone always gets up and repacks their entire life at 4:30 in the loving morning.
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Apr 7, 2024 10:35
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There’s also the Via Alpina, which is a largely east-west route within Switzerland. Most of the overnights are mountain resorts or ski stations, so while it won’t be cheap, it also won’t be CAS huts. Hell, one of the overnights is Gstaad and the western end is in Montreux.
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Apr 7, 2024 13:29
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Saladman posted:There's probably also a through hike in Bern Oberland where you could hike from hotel to hotel, as Bern Oberland also has a lot of mountain hotels. Turns out this is called the Bern Oberland Traverse, and it is indeed a hotel-to-hotel hike. https://www.alpenwild.com/trip/bernese-oberland-traverse/overview/ I have done that entire route (although again not in one trek). It’s lovely and it’s easier than the Haute Route, depending on your physical condition. For a normally fit person who is not at all overweight and who regularly hikes, the Oberland Traverse over 5-6 consecutive days would be challenging but not grueling. Haute Route can easily be grueling, and also it’s much longer. $14,000 for a couple so it’s not cheap if guided. lmao. You could organize it yourself for like a quarter of that price and still stay in the mountain hotels. Depends if you’re rich enough that saving $11,000 is not worth it instead of spending five or six hours doing your own logistics. Saladman fucked around with this message at 15:58 on Apr 7, 2024 |
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Apr 7, 2024 15:56
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Saladman posted:$14,000 for a couple so it’s not cheap if guided. lmao. You could organize it yourself for like a quarter of that price and still stay in the mountain hotels. Depends if you’re rich enough that saving $11,000 is not worth it instead of spending five or six hours doing your own logistics. It looks like that’s not just guided, it’s full service, so you’re paying for them to transfer your bags from hotel to hotel, have meals sorted, etc.
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Apr 7, 2024 17:17
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I am going to Italy for the first time in September and we're stopping for a couple of days in Orvieto between Rome and Florence so hopefully that'll be a break from the madness . We're also booked accommodation in a couple of the CT towns so we hope it will be quieter in the evenings when the day trippers clear out.
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Apr 9, 2024 02:09
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Jean-Paul Shartre posted:For the Vatican Museum we did the goddamn way too early tour which includes breakfast, and it was so very worth it because it got you in to the Sistine Chapel before they let general admission folks in. In the course of rescheduling flights back from Central Asia, I’ve ended up with a two-day stopover in Rome so I’d love to see if I can get on this tour. I’ll be jet-lagged out of time anyway so the time isn’t even a problem. Would you mind linking the specific one you took? Thanks!
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Apr 10, 2024 07:36
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Akratic Method posted:In the course of rescheduling flights back from Central Asia, I’ve ended up with a two-day stopover in Rome so I’d love to see if I can get on this tour. I’ll be jet-lagged out of time anyway so the time isn’t even a problem. I found one on the official Vatican Museums website, but their mobile website sucks, so here’s a link to a tour-guide one with the same itinerary: https://thevaticanmuseums.com/vatican-tours/vip-early-entrance-vatican-guided-tour/
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Apr 10, 2024 16:44
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Thanks so much! e: drat, already gone for the 26th. Book early, people! (Or, stop doing that, so disorganized folks like me can sneak in )
Akratic Method fucked around with this message at 01:24 on Apr 11, 2024 |
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Apr 11, 2024 01:13
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So I'm trying to book that Stockholm to Copenhagen train for the end of May, and because our mid trip travel day happens to fall on a weekend, there are no direct tickets left, only longer routes with a bus in the middle for double the price? Is that typical?
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Apr 11, 2024 05:40
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runawayturtles posted:So I'm trying to book that Stockholm to Copenhagen train for the end of May, and because our mid trip travel day happens to fall on a weekend, there are no direct tickets left, only longer routes with a bus in the middle for double the price? Is that typical? That's probably because of track maintenance work rather than it being sold out.
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Apr 11, 2024 09:42
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Hit me with what I need to know about London and either Munich or Amsterdam in late November/early December. We want to see some Christmas markets, and will be meeting up with my dad for about a week in London and then spending 3 days or so in another city.
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Apr 11, 2024 16:04
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runawayturtles posted:So I'm trying to book that Stockholm to Copenhagen train for the end of May, and because our mid trip travel day happens to fall on a weekend, there are no direct tickets left, only longer routes with a bus in the middle for double the price? Is that typical?
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Apr 11, 2024 16:19
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Omne posted:Hit me with what I need to know about London and either Munich or Amsterdam in late November/early December. We want to see some Christmas markets, and will be meeting up with my dad for about a week in London and then spending 3 days or so in another city. Unless you are staying very close to one of the London airports then take the train if doing London - Amsterdam . 4 hours city centre to city centre.
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Apr 11, 2024 17:39
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Omne posted:Hit me with what I need to know about London and either Munich or Amsterdam in late November/early December. We want to see some Christmas markets, and will be meeting up with my dad for about a week in London and then spending 3 days or so in another city. Where are you travelling from and what sort of tips are you after? Weather (likely to be a bit poo poo in all of those places)/activities/national holidays..? What do you like doing?
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Apr 11, 2024 18:33
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Ras Het posted:That's probably because of track maintenance work rather than it being sold out. kissekatt posted:As Ras Het said, it must be because of maintenance/development as busses are normally not part of that route at all. Even if the trains were sold out they would still show up in your search, just with a "sold out" instead of a ticket price. Ah, I see. That's unfortunate. Wife gets very motion sick on busses, so might have to fly instead, which would be cheaper and faster anyway...
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Apr 11, 2024 18:36
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