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Pompous Rhombus
Mar 11, 2007

Boondock Saint posted:

Yes, although I do believe you have to work for a year before you gain preference.

My former boss was a DEA SAC and from what she told me, half her agents started out doing either low key clerical work or janitorial work. After a year passed by, they had Federal Preference, applied for agent positions and were brought on after going through agent school in Georgia.


http://www.dod.gov/dodgc/doha/industrial/

Do you have any tips on applying preference? I've got a Schedule A hiring exemption but I can't really figure out how to make anything out of it. Wasn't good enough to get me a DoS intern gig, at any rate :smith:

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Pompous Rhombus
Mar 11, 2007

Gomegoth posted:

How big of an advantage do ex-military/veterans have in competing for government jobs, if any? Do they have something like competitive status? I'm not actually in the military, but its something I'm seriously considering doing after I get out of college.

Veteran's preference, a big leg up on KSA's and stuff (I guess this depends on what you do in the military and what you're applying for in the government, but there's a lot of potential there), and often a security clearance. The level of clearance will depend on what you do in the military; a grunt might only have a Secret or something, but other ratings (intel, working on/with classified tech, etc) would come with a higher clearance like a TS or TS/SCI.

It's a huge advantage, in short. I was looking into the AF a few weeks ago but the hiring prospects for non-rated officers looked pretty grim, they're downsizing atm.

Pompous Rhombus
Mar 11, 2007

Konstantin posted:

You have to have a skillset they really, really want. It costs a ton of money to get, especially for a TS clearance, and it can take a long time. If a company offers you a job with the opportunity to get clearance, loving take it, regardless of any other factor. I know that in IT, if you have a TS clearance you can pretty much get a job anywhere, instantly, and get paid a huge amount for it. I can't think of a single piece of paper that will improve your job prospects more. Seriously, if I was still in IT, I would work for free if the company sponsored me for a TS clearance, it's that valuable.

Of course, the company paying for your clearance knows that, so they have to be very confident that you will stay for the long haul, as they know that they will have to pay you much more and they will have very little negotiating leverage after you get your clearance. Oh, and they also run the risk of eating the cost if the government doesn't clear you, and they have to employ you on non-classified projects until you are cleared.

If you're still in school, internships are a great way to get a free clearance without starting a full-blown career with the government. The DIA has one (I could have sworn it was at least a TS, but on their site all I could find was "full clearance"), State will get you a Secret, and I imagine the others do as well.

Pompous Rhombus
Mar 11, 2007

grover posted:

I'm pretty sure it's seamless to you. There's some work on the back-end, but you shouldn't have to redo the investigation.

I could have sworn a couple people (on SA) have said they did have to get them redone, although it's easier with the SF-86 all filled out already. It doesn't make sense to me, but then again, the government.

Pompous Rhombus
Mar 11, 2007

Athazagoraphobia posted:

I am in the process of being cleared for a State Department internship this coming fall but I have already had my interim security clearance denied. Has anyone had their interim denied for Secret clearance only to go on and eventually get the regular clearance approved?

Yeah, had the same thing happen. It was approved a couple weeks later (but I never got to go on the internship, was just an alternate).

Pompous Rhombus
Mar 11, 2007

Skandiaavity posted:

It's possible I am wrong, or this varies by agency, but I thought a BA/BS only qualified you for GS-5, realistically? Whereas if you had personal experience on top of that, you'd qualify for GS-7/GS-9?

I do know the intel agencies play it up a bit to retain the positions/compete with private sectors, but wow, it'd be cool if I qualified for a GS-9/GS-11 :P

Some job postings offer GS-7 (I think) for "superior academic performance" and let that substitute for some of the experience/grad school.

Pompous Rhombus
Mar 11, 2007

Skandiaavity posted:

All over this, thanks a bunch... been trying to get into UN for 3-some years now! Are there any UN goons? :( competition go~

postin from my phone, that job fair was okay, wayyyyyyy too many people, did not realize how many people actually don't have jobs :/. and I just spent an hour or so chatting with a nice girl from state, while she explained to me all about the civil service :/. The CIA lady did seem overly interested, though. She asked me a lot of questions.

Yeah, it was the CIA who seemed most interested in me when I was at a job fair there a few years ago; I get the impression they're always on the lookout for good people.

Also lol at the Boren people, they sent out an e-mail about that job fair this morning.

Pompous Rhombus
Mar 11, 2007

Skandiaavity posted:

A reminder to thank Obama, if he gets his way: the hiring time will cut down to something like 60-90 days from when you submit your resume, till they have an answer or an offer. Period. (Some agencies, of course, are excepted from this)

OTOH, I just signed up for $33/mo health insurance that will basically spit in my eye if anything happens to me, unless it's something catastrophic, in which case they'll pay a percentage beyond $12.5k.

ARE HEALTHCARE

Pompous Rhombus
Mar 11, 2007

Gravel Gravy posted:

Is anyone familiar with the ILR language test at all? I'm scheduled to take it in a week and for this position I have to get a 3/3, which I have no clue what that is. But if it is complete fluency then I am hosed.

Speaking, ILR3

Not sure if the other 3 refers to listening or writing, but you can find the rest of the descriptions on that website.

Pompous Rhombus
Mar 11, 2007

Gravel Gravy posted:

Probably listening since it is an oral exam over a telephone.

That actually makes much more sense. I thought it was 3/3 as in 3 out of 3 levels. Thought it was odd that they would use two separate scales for the test. Well if that is the case I just might have a fighting chance.

Yeah, a 3/3 is pretty decent, but by no means fluent.

Let us know how it goes, provided there isn't an NDA attached to the test. I'm curious if there's a separate listening section, or if they're just going by your responses how well you understood the examiner.

Pompous Rhombus
Mar 11, 2007

Athazagoraphobia posted:

Just finished my interview for Secret clearance. After being lectured about my prior drug use, the interviewer would not make eye contact with me for the remaining duration of our conversation. I was informed that they did not interview anyone from my sf-86 and do not intend to. Apparently, honesty is for suckers.

Yeah, none of my references were contacted either. He did ask for stuff like former roommates overseas, but didn't really seem too bothered when I couldn't come up with contact details for most of them :iiam:

Pompous Rhombus
Mar 11, 2007

grover posted:

Also, when they ask about mp3/video piracy, they only care about mp3/video piracy done on government computers, and NOT what you do from home. They're pretty clear about this in the written stuff, but sometimes gloss this over during oral interviews.

Are they really? From what I saw it sounded like any :files: was a tick against you, which is mostly why I quit altogether a while ago* (interviewer never asked me about it, IIRC). For something like the FBI, it could definitely create a problem/conflict with your job.

*Between Netflix, Hulu, and Zune Pass one really isn't left wanting much.

Pompous Rhombus
Mar 11, 2007

SWATJester posted:

Opportunity time!

Just got done scanning my transcripts for this. I'm applying for the Foreign Affairs Specialist (yeah right) and the Passport Specialist (maybe?). I figure I'll put down Detroit for the latter; hopefully it'll increase the odds since presumably it's the worst place on the list.

Pompous Rhombus
Mar 11, 2007

SWATJester posted:

I'd imagine that being a Passport Specialist is a pretty good lead-in if you ever wanted to be a Consular FSO.

Yeah, puttin' that in my letter :cool:

Pompous Rhombus
Mar 11, 2007
I told a couple of my friends I was applying for a job in Detroit and each one gave me the :what: reaction.

Ranger -X- posted:

Another good reason for getting a federal job? Within the next 10 years appx. 40% of federal employees will be retiring leaving a lot of upper positions to be filled. Yay baby-boomers!

Is there mandatory retirement for fed jobs? From what I've read, a lot of boomers are clinging to their jobs, either out of financial necessity (getting wiped out when the economy tanked) or just not wanting to retire.

fivetwo posted:

The Department of Health and Human Services, Office of the Inspector General is hiring 1811 agents en masse. It's on USAJobs (series search 1811 or agency search HHS).

G-ride, gun, badge, etc, GS-13 journeyman + LEAP (25% on top of your base pay in exchange for you working 50 hour weeks).

Doesn't hurt to throw in your app.


Looks like Secret Service is also open, probably gearing up for 2012 season.

Cool, will look in to this.

Pompous Rhombus
Mar 11, 2007
I think Diplomatic Security Service hires like once a year, maybe October-ish? I remember that's when they opened up a couple of the DoS jobs, I applied for the courier position last year (a man can dream :sigh: )

Omits-Bagels posted:

Does having non-competitive eligibility really help me out that much? What is the best way to take advantage of it?

Also interested to know about this. Does it basically boil down to: knowing someone on the inside of whatever organization who would go to bat for you, who also has some pull with management/HR?

Pompous Rhombus
Mar 11, 2007

Gawain The Blind posted:

I can't speak for other agencies, but as far as I know, knowing somebody in HR at the IRS doesn't help you in any way, other than maybe you get a heads up when something is about to post, so you can get a jump on applying for it, or maybe they double check to make sure all your forms are in order for your application. The actual decision process as to who gets the job is all very systematic and point-based on specific criteria, and being friends with somebody never enters into it.

Edit: Jobs above the GS level have an extensive interview process and usually (again as far as I know) the decision process comes down to a panel of people, usually supervisors and your potential immediate boss. I suppose at that point knowing somebody might give you an edge.

Having Non-Competitive eligibility means that you can apply for internal jobs that people WITHOUT NCE can't even apply for, and I think it gets you ahead of anyone off the street for jobs that they can apply for. (Though i'm not 100% sure on that last one)

The way it's been explained to me, a federal employer can create a position for you without having to advertise it to the general public, and you don't count towards their hiring quota. I know that you can use it for applying for those internal jobs as well, but it seems outside applicants (without relevant experience in the private sector, I guess) wouldn't generally be qualified for those jobs anyways :-\

Pompous Rhombus
Mar 11, 2007

Gravel Gravy posted:

Here is a related question.

It is for a contractor in an overseas embassy. I was in the process for an immigration assistant position, but apparently I did so appallingly bad that I scored a 1/5 on the ILR.( I can only attribute this to being nervous as all hell, I could barely think.) But they want to continue my employment as a custodian at the embassy (which strangely makes 100 more than the immigration assistant).

So my question is this, should I do it anyway? Would whatever clearance they would issue a janitor be worth working as a janitor overseas? I guess once I get re-accustomed to using the language everyday as I used to, I would be able to show them that I actually know the language.

Edit: Apparently it is a TS clearance. I think I should soldier on.
Edit 2: Basically the salary is pretty much the same as the previous job I was hoping to get, a few thousand over over the host country's average PPP, with tax exemption and free housing and utilities.

Anyone have an opinion?

I do, those phone language tests are kinda bogus wrt your actual language ability :colbert: I can still see why they do them though; face-to-face interviews or anything more comprehensive would be prohibitively expensive.

Could you give me some more info about your process applying for those jobs? I'm going to be doing something similar and would be really interested to hear more about your experiences. You should be able to e-mail me through the link in my SA profile.

Necronomiconomist posted:

Small clearance related question:

I was just offered a job for a defence contractor, that would require Secret clearance. I looked over the application form and I won't have a problem with any of it, but I did use pot like 4-5 times back in college (over 3 years ago).

My hiring contact basically said the check is "Credit check, felony check, you're clear", but is there any chance that'll jeopardize the investigation?

I've talked with FBI folks who have said 'yeah, we know kids do pot in college, that's fine', but my hiring contact basically told me everything short of "just lie and don't put anything". That seems unwise if I ever want TS and the polygraph required there.

I'm just hesitant to jump ship from an existing job to this one if there's even a chance the I won't get clearance (and would be subsequently fired).

Your hiring contact is technically correct (a Secret is no great shakes), but in the long term it is horrible advice and you should seriously take anything they tell you with a huge grain of salt. If you go for a higher clearance later it will probably come out one way or another that you were smoking the reefer in college, and didn't report that on your original SF-86. You can kiss your clearance/job goodbye in that case.

Really want to underscore how lying about something so banal for a Secret (when the hiring agency has told you its no big deal, no less) is awful, terrible advice.

Pompous Rhombus
Mar 11, 2007

Gravel Gravy posted:

Don't see an e-mail. Besides don't I have your AIM name, from the DC goon meet thread?

So whats the opinion, is the job I do for the clearance more important, or the clearance?

Also just checked, apparently it is a two year contract. Even if it is for a TS I am debating whether I could stand being a janitor for two years. Or perhaps I should be thinking more in terms of language practice, experience, and the TS rather than what I would be doing for money.

Weird, I have it selected as being able to be contacted by email, but I don't see the link when I look at my own profile. I don't use AIM anymore regardless, my email is [redacted].

At this point I'd do unmentionable things for a decent-ish paying janitor job overseas with a TS thrown in, just sayin' :v:

Pompous Rhombus fucked around with this message at 22:40 on Jul 22, 2010

Pompous Rhombus
Mar 11, 2007

Omits-Bagels posted:

I applied but never got an email back... I probably messed something up. ugg.

:whatup:

:saddowns:

Pompous Rhombus
Mar 11, 2007
Woot, just got an e-mail about the Passport Specialist. Guess it takes them a while to make it down that list.

Pompous Rhombus
Mar 11, 2007

CherryCola posted:

Wooo! I have a skype interview on the 14th! Any advice for skyping with the government?

Pants optional!

(Congrats!)

Pompous Rhombus
Mar 11, 2007
So when I get to check "yes" for

quote:

Are you eligible for a noncompetitive appointment to the Federal government under authorities for the severely disabled; certain Vietnam era and disabled veterans; returned volunteer from the Peace Corps or Vista, etc.?

, how does that work in the hiring process? It also gives me the option to select

quote:

I am a status candidate and I also want to be considered under the competitive process.

, which I assume I should check as well. But I'm curious how the non-competitive thing affects my application, when there are also applicants applying competitively.

Pompous Rhombus
Mar 11, 2007

Sundae posted:

Ahh, I forgot how fun ApplicationManager is. You submit everything, it accepts it all, you check all the checklists to confirm that they say 'submitted'...


...and then you come back two weeks later on a whim, to find out that the job opening is closed, and that your application was rejected without notification because ApplicationManager decided to wipe every loving attachment you gave it.

It even eliminated my resume. Every single thing was gone except for the questionnaire.

So much for USPTO this year. :(

I wonder if this is why the CEP had us e-mail everything and said not to upload any documents to ApplicationManager.

JohnnyHildo posted:

Under a noncompetitive hiring authority you can be appointed directly into the job without competing against others on a cert if you are qualified for the position. Under a competitive hiring authority, you must compete with the other applicants. If you qualify for both authorities, you should apply for both.

How do they figure the quota of non-competitive hires versus competitive? Would they take every eligible non-competitive before they started looking at competitive applications? OTOH, going through that questionnaire I was beginning to feel a bit inadequate at parts. I almost wish there were essay questions, so I could say "No, but here's why I think that I could...".

Gravel Gravy posted:

It was pretty straight forward. Mostly about your experiences like "Do you have working experience on projects taking upwards of six months" or "Have you ever led a team on a short term project" and other stuff.

I was going to put it off until the weekend, until my boss came and dumped a whole heap of bullshit on me today at work this morning. Came right home, fixed myself lunch, and plowed straight through the whole questionnaire, e-mailed the HR lady a few more questions I had, then started on another job application.

(Normally my job is just a dull, low-level ache that I can tune out, so this provided some much needed stimulus.)

Pompous Rhombus
Mar 11, 2007

Gravel Gravy posted:

Did they say that? I uploaded mine and the application looks fine. Should I remove the documents just in case?

The lady who emailed me mentioned it. I got an automated out-of-office response with some FAQ-type answers on it, according to that if you've already uploaded them don't bother to take them down, but they'll be using the documents you originally submitted by email.

Pompous Rhombus
Mar 11, 2007

JohnnyHildo posted:

There is no quota for non-competitive hires, it's just an alternative list that the hiring manager can hire someone from. I was recently on a hiring team and we got to choose from candidates on a merit promotion list, Schedule A (non-competitive), and a public list. We hired for four positions, but there was no requirement that a certain number be taken from any one list. We called in one individual who was eligible under Schedule A because she looked to be a good candidate. She ended up bombing the interview. We didn't call anyone else who was eligible under Schedule A because they weren't particularly compelling. The other Schedule A candidates were only minimally-qualified for the position.

I should point out that you're not limited to applying for, or being considered under various hiring authorities. Several applicants were on both the merit promotion list and the public list. You're best off applying under as many hiring authorities as you are qualified for.

Thanks for explaining that, makes perfect sense.

Pompous Rhombus
Mar 11, 2007
So, in case any of you are interested in what languages federal employers are searching resumes for:

code:
Language	Number of hits
Arabic	             100
Pashto	             78
Urdu	             77
Farsi/Dari	     52
Russian	             46
Farsi	             44
Persian	             29
Chinese	             22
Hausa	             22
Swahili	             21

Pompous Rhombus
Mar 11, 2007

CherryCola posted:

It's a good thing I'm a patient woman or I would have completely lost my mind by now. I applied for a curatorial assistant job at the Freer gallery (Smithsonian) on June 1st. On July 14th, I received a notice that I had met the criteria and would be notified in the "near future" about whether or not I would get an interview. So now it's almost September and I'm staaarting to wonder if they've actually filled the position and will never tell me. My online application tells me no further details.

At what point would it be appropriate for me to actually go to the drat gallery and try to talk to someone?

Out of all the positions I've applied for, this one seems like it would be the most fulfilling and goddamn awesome. fffffffffffffff

I don't think it hurts to follow-up (there's even a form on my "Job Search History" thing with NSEP about what you did to follow up on your application), although I'm not sure the exact etiquette... haven't had a good reason to follow up yet :smith: Obviously you don't want to come off as pushy/desperate, but just something polite to let them know you're definitely still interested in the position, etc.

Pompous Rhombus
Mar 11, 2007

Gravel Gravy posted:

Got this gem from the NNSA today!

"It was a pleasure meeting you at a recent career event. Thank you for expressing an interest in employment opportunities with the National Nuclear Security Administration(NNSA). We are excited to share more information with you regarding our employment opportunities. We would like to invite you to attend a virtual presentation on September 8, 2010 at 12:00 pm EST.
 The presentation will cover information about the NNSA's global critical mission and both career entry level and internship programs; and upcoming opportunities that may be of interest to you. This presentation will also offer you the opportunity to engage with us through a new interactive medium; our 3-D virtual island in Second Life!"

So... Second life goon meet?

So, who's down for a flying penis raid?

edit: or at least show up as a furry

Pompous Rhombus
Mar 11, 2007

Gravel Gravy posted:

I didn't because I didn't find out that that was what you had to do until later in the thread, so I am likely hosed.

BTW has anyone ever volunteered for the Police Dept.? That is what I am in the process of doing right now. Wonder if it would just be a matter of making there is always fresh coffee or what.

I have, but not the American police :ninja:

Pompous Rhombus
Mar 11, 2007

Sirotan posted:

Heres what all of mine said:


Received these emails on July 25th.

Yeah, that's what mine said too.

So anyone else sack up and apply for Detroit? :whatup:

Pompous Rhombus
Mar 11, 2007

a bear posted:

I have a degree in video production. I'm not ready to head out to the LA/NY area yet. I'm in Maryland and can get a job in DC.

What kind of federal job could I get if I have this degree if any?

I've seen a number of positions for video people (saved search: photographer), especially with military public affairs offices. They all want experience, so hopefully you have that.

Pompous Rhombus
Mar 11, 2007

Gravel Gravy posted:

Question: I can get into a volunteer position with a County PD. They basically want to conduct a background investigation that will take many months. I don't want to make them conduct the investigation since I will basically be taking whatever is thrown at me before I get to start volunteering for them. Basically I hate being an rear end in a top hat, wouldn't want them to waste their time but who knows if anything will even happen by the time I get to start with them.

I didn't see a question there :confused:

I'd just level with them about it; say you'd really like to do it but are looking for jobs that may come through for you before they can get the investigation done. They may have some non-sensitive stuff you could do in the meantime, and you never know how long it will take for those gub'ment jobs to work out anyways.

This is a good idea btw, I'm going to look in to doing the same. I've got a clearance with State already so I wonder if that would streamline things?

Pompous Rhombus
Mar 11, 2007

CherryCola posted:

I have an M.A. If I remember correctly, some just start with Univ. That thing is pretty picky. Try experimenting with different abbreviation.

edit: Just talked to the recruiting lady and accepted a VERY NICE offer. Kinda sucks that I can't actually start for at least six months, though. Welp, back to applying for other crap.

double edit: A bit terrified of this security clearance process though. I've been pretty much a goodie-goodie for most of my life, but I'm worried some old, forgotten and misconstrued crap will come back to bit me on the arse.

What level do you need?

Pompous Rhombus
Mar 11, 2007

CherryCola posted:

Top Secret with Polygraph. I'm kind of worried I'm going to fail the polygraph right out because I have this weird guilty anxiety thing even when I haven't actually done anything wrong. Just have to hope for the best, I guess!

Nice! I'm the same way (and just skeptical about polygraphs in general), but I imagine they get a lot of people like that.

Pompous Rhombus
Mar 11, 2007
Anyone ever hear back from the CEP Passport Specialist Position? Was supposed to be a yea or nay at least a week ago...

Pompous Rhombus
Mar 11, 2007
88 (honest to a fault) :smith:

What the gently caress does that email even mean? "Yeah, we got your application."?

Pompous Rhombus
Mar 11, 2007
Not that I shouldn't be applying for anything I can find*, but I think I'm taking a hydra approach to this government job thing; for every one I don't get accepted for, I apply for two more. Also heard back from the FBI that I was Eligible - Not Referred to Hiring Official, which is hardly surprising.

Something's gotta give, eventually! my will

*I should mention here I'm required to make a "good faith" effort for the next two years to find a job relating to national security, so I'm pretty much applying for everything I'm qualified for, snowball's chance in hell or not.

Pompous Rhombus fucked around with this message at 23:00 on Sep 23, 2010

Pompous Rhombus
Mar 11, 2007

Gravel Gravy posted:

Good news everyone!

Got an e-mail from the HR people. Basically if you scored less than a 97, you are right out for everything.

Haha, jesus:

quote:

The minimum score required for referral to hiring managers was:
Program Analyst 99
Foreign Affairs Officer 100 + CPS/CP Vets
Budget Analyst 99
HR Specialist Wash, DC 102
HR Specialist Charleston, DC 103
Contract Specialist Wash, DC 101
Contract Specialist FL 100
Paralegal Specialist 98
Passport Specialist:
Miami, FL 100
Atlanta, GA 98
Charleston, SC 101
Chicago, IL 99
Detroit, MI 97
Minneapolis, MN 97
Tucson, AZ CP/CPS Vets only
Hot Springs, AZ 98
Aurora, CO 99
New Orleans, LA 98
Dallas, TX 98
Houston, TX 98
Boston, MA 99
NYC 99
Philadelphia, PA 98
San Francisco 98 with Vet Pref or above
Los Angeles, CA 99
San Diego, CA 98
Honolulu, HI 99
Portsmouth, NH 100
Buffalo, NY 98
El Paso, TX 97
Seattle, WA 100
Norwalk, CT 99
St. Albans, VT 98

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Pompous Rhombus
Mar 11, 2007

Boondock Saint posted:

I am going to use this from now on when people ask why I don't have a career type job yet.

I picked two useless majors, studied a useless language, and didn't work for free as an intern when I was a student/have connections where I could make nepotism work for me upon graduation.

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