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McKracken
Jun 17, 2005

Lets go for a run!

jeffersonlives posted:

A really good site that breaks a lot of this stuff down is Smart Football.

I just want to echo that this is a pretty good resource for X's & O's related analysis. The updates can be sporadic at times, but they always contain a lot of interesting reads. The breakdown of 4th down decisions (here and here) was particularly interesting.

I also like Pro Football Focus, as their ratings/stats are all based off tape analysis. I think they're as objective as possible, at least as a Jets fan I agree with 99% of their analysis of Jets players.


Also, for anyone interested in NCAA Football, I can attempt to answer questions to the best of my ability as a former player. I'm not a trivia bank, but I can offer insight as it pertains to rules, strategy, and off-field junk from a player perspective.

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Trin Tragula
Apr 22, 2005

Quick correction

jeffersonlives posted:

OFFENSIVE FOOTBALL

Let's start with some basics. There have to be at least seven players lined up on the line of scrimmage at all times in American football. If there are less than seven players, it is an illegal formation and will be penalized.

They changed this last year so that the foul is not "six on the line", it's "five in the backfield". No practical change except if the offense puts 10 on the field and doesn't realise, there's not gonna be a foul for six on the line because the correct response to the offense doing that is not throwing a flag, it's pointing and laughing.

Gonna start another rules thread at some point between the end of the World Cup and the start of the season.

Doppelganger
Oct 11, 2002

Harder, Better, Faster, Stronger
I wasn't done with the list, when did I hit the post button?! Sorry to everyone who felt left out, your turn is coming shortly.

Doppelganger
Oct 11, 2002

Harder, Better, Faster, Stronger

Ehud posted:

Is this an all-time list, last 10 years, what to expect this year? I'm trying to figure out how the Saints at up and comers while the Ravens are superstars :confused:
Well I figured the Ravens have been a mostly strong team since they began, while the Saints only started getting good 5 years ago.

Ok moving on with the list...

5. The Household Names:
Whether they happen to be doing poorly or are on fire, teams like these have enough of a storied history to drum up interest wherever they go. These are great teams if you like historical rivalries.

    New York Giants
    Miami Dolphins
    San Francisco 49'ers
    Chicago Bears

6. The Quarterback Quandaries:
This is more of a category pertaining to the immediate present. If you like uncertainty and struggles at the QB position, give these guys a look!
    Arizona Cardinals
    Denver Broncos
    Carolina Panthers

I also meant to put the Atlanta Falcons in the villain category, because gently caress them. I'm not really sure where to put the Tennessee Titans though, up and comers maybe?

Doppelganger fucked around with this message at 02:42 on Jul 7, 2010

Dexo
Aug 15, 2009

A city that was to live by night after the wilderness had passed. A city that was to forge out of steel and blood-red neon its own peculiar wilderness.

Doppelganger posted:

List

I would move the Bears into the Household Names. Our QB situation is pretty good for the time being and for the foreseeable future. Or Make a section called "Teams that will turn you to alcoholism"

a neat cape
Feb 22, 2007

Aw hunny, these came out GREAT!
San Diego isn't really an up and comer.

Pork Chops Aplenty
Jan 11, 2008

I guess category 7 is

7. The Cleveland Browns:

God help you.

Doppelganger
Oct 11, 2002

Harder, Better, Faster, Stronger

PUSSY MASTER 007 posted:

I guess category 7 is

7. The Cleveland Browns:

God help you.
WTF I thought I had them as underdogs!

I'm such a failure at listmaking :smith:

OhSnapGangsta
Jun 24, 2006

All the arms we need are for hugging
In choosing a team, you probably want to find some qualities you like and find a team that matches most of your highest priority qualities.

Passing-heavy(ie Colts)
Run-heavy(ie Panthers)
Good Defense(ie Ravens)
Fun Personality Players(ie Bengals)
Bandwagon Teams(ie Saints)
Teams other fans love to hate(ie Patriots)
Bad teams that you can claim you were on the bandwagon when they sucked(ie Rams and Lions)
Up-and-coming(ie Texans)
Exercises in Futility(ie Browns)

Pork Chops Aplenty
Jan 11, 2008

Doppelganger posted:

WTF I thought I had them as underdogs!

I'm such a failure at listmaking :smith:

It's understandable that you don't want to condemn others to a lifetime of depression, it's ok.

sc0tty
Jan 8, 2005

too kewell for school..
Out of curiosity, what makes the Texans exciting at the moment? Why the pre-hype?

Kalli
Jun 2, 2001



sc0tty posted:

Out of curiosity, what makes the Texans exciting at the moment? Why the pre-hype?

They have probably the best young WR in football, who's just a joy to watch. They have a, I think we can still call him "underrated", very solid QB in Matt Schaub.
Their defense showed marked improvements last year, and has some solid young talent.

Basically, they're pretty similar to what the Arizona Cardinals were from oh... 2005-2008 or so. EVENTUALLY it'll happen!

Detergent
Aug 7, 2006

WDE WDE WDE

sc0tty posted:

Out of curiosity, what makes the Texans exciting at the moment? Why the pre-hype?

They do have next year's NFL RoTY, too.

Doppelganger
Oct 11, 2002

Harder, Better, Faster, Stronger

Dexo posted:

I would move the Bears into the Household Names. Our QB situation is pretty good for the time being and for the foreseeable future. Or Make a section called "Teams that will turn you to alcoholism"
Word. Some teams are really hard to generalize right now because there are so many unanswered questions until the season starts.

Tahm Bwady
Aug 7, 2008

Its 1 thing to jump and be able to land on 2 feet but I had no idea I was landing in Heaven.Hope all is well on this good Friday
I seriously cannot wait for the Texans to get SB caliber. It's only a matter of time.

sc0tty
Jan 8, 2005

too kewell for school..
What's an SB caliber?

:gonk:

nnnAdam
Jul 8, 2007

Strength in Numbers

sc0tty posted:

What's an SB caliber?

:gonk:

Super Bowl caliber. Don't worry though, the Texans aren't anywhere that.

dirty shrimp money
Jan 8, 2001

sc0tty posted:

Out of curiosity, what makes the Texans exciting at the moment? Why the pre-hype?

You know what happened the last time people got real hot and bothered about the Texans? They went 2-14.

MourningView
Sep 2, 2006


Is this Heaven?
I feel like the Texans have been getting buzz as a team on the verge since like literally the moment they formed. I remember a ton of talk about how they'd had the best expansion draft ever and stuff like that.

That said I do really like their current team, especially if Tate turns out to be as good as I think he can be.

Detergent
Aug 7, 2006

WDE WDE WDE

MorningView posted:

I feel like the Texans have been getting buzz as a team on the verge since like literally the moment they formed. I remember a ton of talk about how they'd had the best expansion draft ever and stuff like that.

That said I do really like their current team, especially if Tate turns out to be as good as I think he can be.

If he is I might make them my #2 team. God I still don't wanna accept the Broncos drafting Tim Tebow. It's probably 25% as bad for me as this year's NCG.

sc0tty
Jan 8, 2005

too kewell for school..
Anyone want to do some sort of intro primer into Fantasy Football? These are pretty standard things so if there are decent ones available via yahoo or other fantasy sites than thats just as good.

FYI i'll be updated the OP tonight with the info that has been posted.

adaz
Mar 7, 2009

sc0tty posted:

Anyone want to do some sort of intro primer into Fantasy Football? These are pretty standard things so if there are decent ones available via yahoo or other fantasy sites than thats just as good.

FYI i'll be updated the OP tonight with the info that has been posted.

Question probably best left for the fantasy football(among others) subforum : http://forums.somethingawful.com/forumdisplay.php?forumid=248

Alakaiser
Jan 3, 2007

And the Lord Josh said, "Blessed are those cast away by Belichick, theirs is the kingdom of Denver." (Tebow 1:25)
Those formation posts were pretty sweet. I knew some of that, but I've never really been too big into exploring playbooks.

Here's a question for you guys: what the hell does the prevent defense do, besides "preventing the team from winning"? Like, why do many coaches seem to use it when it feels like they always get burned by it in the process? And, for that matter, why is it so easy to beat?

Tahm Bwady
Aug 7, 2008

Its 1 thing to jump and be able to land on 2 feet but I had no idea I was landing in Heaven.Hope all is well on this good Friday

Alakaiser posted:

Those formation posts were pretty sweet. I knew some of that, but I've never really been too big into exploring playbooks.

Here's a question for you guys: what the hell does the prevent defense do, besides "preventing the team from winning"? Like, why do many coaches seem to use it when it feels like they always get burned by it in the process? And, for that matter, why is it so easy to beat?

The Prevent defense is basically used to prevent the team from throwing deep on you. It's used when 10-15 yard gains are allowable but a deep pass would be very bad, like at the end of games. It is so easy to beat because almost everyone is way, way, deep and playing the long ball. So you can easily get a 20 yard gain, but you won't get a touchdown

A.o.D.
Jan 15, 2006

The Suffering of the Succotash.

Tahm Bwady posted:

The Prevent defense is basically used to prevent the team from throwing deep on you. It's used when 10-15 yard gains are allowable but a deep pass would be very bad, like at the end of games. It is so easy to beat because almost everyone is way, way, deep and playing the long ball. So you can easily get a 20 yard gain, but you won't get a touchdown

That's the theory, anyhow. However, when you have hall of fame receivers and running backs catching the ball in the open field, at best they're getting out of bounds and stopping the clock. At worst they have time to scan the field and make a big rear end play that makes your decision to go prevent look dumb as hell.

Prevent defense is the hallmark of the timid coordinator/head coach and is rightfully ridiculed.

bigfoot again
Apr 24, 2007

What is a 'read'? What does a Quarterback actually do when he 'reads' a DE (for example)? Do passing plays generally have the reads built into them?

A.o.D.
Jan 15, 2006

The Suffering of the Succotash.

BIGFOOT PEE BED posted:

What is a 'read'? What does a Quarterback actually do when he 'reads' a DE (for example)? Do passing plays generally have the reads built into them?

A read is when the quarterback or running back (whomever is making the decision on how the play is going to unfold) looks at the defense and makes an informed guess as to how the defense is going to defend against the next play. This guess can change how the play action is going to unfold, where the rusher is going to attempt to penetrate, or whether or not the QB calls an audible (change of play) before the snap.

If the quarterback is passing, or decides to pass on a play action, he then moves through a progression of "looks" where he checks off each receiver (determined during the creation of the play and in practice) in order in the hopes of trying to secure the best gain possible, or to save a blown play.

One trick a quarterback uses to confuse pass defense is to 'look off' his intended receiver. This means that the quarterback will focus his eyes on a different eligible receiver in order to trick the coverage into moving to contain that player, while the quarterback is really intending to pass to a different player. This is an absolutely essential skill against good pass defenses, as it helps reduce the chance of being intercepted and increases the chance for good yards after catch. In order for this to work well, you need your receivers to always run good routes, even if they know that a given play won't see them getting passed to, and that the receiver and the quarterback have good timing and synchronization.

Captain Satire
May 3, 2005

Chris Cooley is my Life Coach.

A.o.D. posted:

Wise words

Bigfoot the best thing you could do is watch some true commander QBs like Peyton Manning or Tom Brady play this year.

You'll see them move out of the huddle, cooly inspect the defense and make changes accordingly.

EDIT: My own question!

What are the major rule changes and justifications for these changes in the Pro-Bowl? Is is all to protect the players from injury?

McKracken
Jun 17, 2005

Lets go for a run!

A.o.D. posted:

That's the theory, anyhow. However, when you have hall of fame receivers and running backs catching the ball in the open field, at best they're getting out of bounds and stopping the clock. At worst they have time to scan the field and make a big rear end play that makes your decision to go prevent look dumb as hell.

Prevent defense is the hallmark of the timid coordinator/head coach and is rightfully ridiculed.


It should only ever be used in the closing seconds of the 2nd or 4th quarter. It's fairly appropriate when the offense needs a TD and 30+ yards with only time for 1-2 plays left. Outside of those extreme situations it's pretty useless.

BIGFOOT PEE BED posted:

What is a 'read'? What does a Quarterback actually do when he 'reads' a DE (for example)? Do passing plays generally have the reads built into them?

In terms of the example in your question, QB's will commonly read the DE or outside rusher when running some form of option. This is a lot more prevalent at the high school or college level. The blocking scheme will typically call for the last man on the line of scrimmage to be unblocked. The QB will read his actions. The defender will have to commit to his assignment, either to contain or force the QB or to cover the back. If the DE comes at the QB he will option it to one of the backs. If the defender takes contain of the back, the QB can cut inside and keep it.

This is very simplified, and option reads can vary with defenders and the action in the backfield, but this is the general idea.

McKracken fucked around with this message at 13:37 on Jul 7, 2010

Doppelganger
Oct 11, 2002

Harder, Better, Faster, Stronger
How can you tell if a receiver is a bad route runner? I always hear people talk about how well players do in this area, but I don't understand how you could know that unless you studied their playbook.

edit: Here's a more packed question, but if anyone's up to the task I'd appreciate it. I'd like to know more about audibles and playcalling, particularly some basic strategies. Would anyone be willing to maybe mspaint a basic offense and defense formation, explain what the QB might think when he sees the defense's formation, and then post how the QB would shift his guys around?

Doppelganger fucked around with this message at 13:53 on Jul 7, 2010

McKracken
Jun 17, 2005

Lets go for a run!

Doppelganger posted:

How can you tell if a receiver is a bad route runner? I always hear people talk about how well players do in this area, but I don't understand how you could know that unless you studied their playbook.

The only thing playbook knowledge would impart to an observer would be familiarity with the specific offensive plays.

There are a relatively small number of unique routes that exist in football. Someone already posted a passing tree which demonstrates the typical routes that exist in pretty much every offense. There may be variations to these routes specific to a particular team, but this does not alter their purpose. So 2 different teams might utilize a post corner, and they might instruct their players to cut at different angles or run the route in varying lengths, but ultimately you are still running a 2-cut route, faking towards the middle of the field and then extending to the deep corner.
The goal of some routes do depend on the context of the play they are being used in, but this is usually fairly evident. So take a drag run by a TE for example. In one play he might be running the underneath drag on a crossing pattern with the intent of scraping/picking the defender on the over route. In this case it is his job to run into the defender, but you should be able to tell this from the context of the assignments of the other players. On another play, perhaps a play action, he might delay for 2 seconds and then run his drag with the intent of getting open when the QB boots around. In this case it's his job to get as far away from the defense as possible, again, this would be evident based on the context.


As far as recognizing a poor route, you can usually tell this if the player is unable to create separation from defenders or has a bad habit of reading the defense poorly and thus not making the proper cuts on his routes. Or it can be as simple as someone making lazy cuts, or not working back to the QB on a comeback route.

HeroOfTheRevolution
Apr 26, 2008

Alakaiser posted:

Those formation posts were pretty sweet. I knew some of that, but I've never really been too big into exploring playbooks.

Here's a question for you guys: what the hell does the prevent defense do, besides "preventing the team from winning"? Like, why do many coaches seem to use it when it feels like they always get burned by it in the process? And, for that matter, why is it so easy to beat?

Most of the time you hear 'prevent defense prevents a team from winning', the team isn't actually in a real prevent. A real prevent is like when the Patriots put 2 defensive linemen in and 9 defensive backs, one of whom is Randy Moss, and they sit 30-50 yards back at the very end of the half to prevent any sort of Hail Mary. Most commonly, what's mistakenly referred to as a 'prevent' defense is soft coverage, where defensive backs don't take risks and are supposed to always keep receivers in front of them. This lets them make catches but limits the gain, hopefully keeping the receivers in bounds and the clock moving.

You hear about the failures of this but much less about how well it often works. For example, in the 2004 Super Bowl against the Eagles, were utilizing a depleted secondary against an Eagles passing attack that featured Terrell Owens. Randall Gay lined up against Owens for most of the night; Owens caught a dozen balls, but no one really remembers that because they didn't go for big yardage as Gay kept him in front of him and prevented a run after the catch. They knew Gay would get burned if he tried to play Owens tight. That's the type of total 'prevent' defense teams utilize in the waning minutes of games with a similar goal.

may contain peanuts
Sep 28, 2007

WOW what a grate sports paly by the 49rs (better than seahawks)
This link doesn't work. I think it's supposed to go here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Significant_rivalries_in_the_NFL

JoshTheStampede
Sep 8, 2004

come at me bro

sc0tty posted:

Anyone want to do some sort of intro primer into Fantasy Football? These are pretty standard things so if there are decent ones available via yahoo or other fantasy sites than thats just as good.

FYI i'll be updated the OP tonight with the info that has been posted.

Babby's First Fantasy Football Primer

Fantasy Football involves players assembling a team of NFL players. Each week, your team scores points for things the players do in their real-life NFL games.

Teams are usually drafted - a draft order is agreed upon, and the players go in order, selecting players to be on their teams. Your league will have some rules on how many of each position you must have, and how many you may have maximum. Common wisdom dictates that RBs are the most consistent scorers, and so the early picks in most drafts will be RB-heavy. But that is starting to change as more and mroe leagues have different scoring systems or people begin to doubt the wisdom of RB-first. A common first round of a fantasy draft will be mostly RBs, with maybe a QB or a WR or two slipping in.

The size of the roster, and the number of starting players, varies. Generally, you will have more players on your roster than you can start, so each week you will select which of your players actually count. Your league will specify how many of each position (QB, RB, WR, TE, K, etc) must be active. Some leagues also have a "Flex" position, in which you may start one of several positions. This may allow you to start multiple quarterbacks, for example. A standard starting lineup would be 1 QB, 2 RB, 2 WR, 1 TE, 1 K, and 1 Def, though again, it will vary from league to league.

Scoring systems vary widely, but generally your players will score points for yardage, touchdowns, and sometimes things like receptions. They may lose points for throwing interceptions or fumbling. So in a scoring system where you get 1 point per 10 rushing yards, and 6 points for a TD, you could look at a statline, see that Chris Johnson ran for 130 yards and 2 TDs, and thus he would score 25 fantasy points.

Most leagues use team defenses - you get the defense for that team. So you would draft "Baltimore Ravens Defense", not "Ray Lewis". However, some leagues do draft Individual Defensive Players (IDP) instead, in which case you would select such players seperately, and they would have a scoring system of their own, usually based on tackles, sacks, interceptions, and other such plays.

Sash!
Mar 16, 2001


FeedingHam2Cats posted:

Everyone hates the Steelers.

Steelers should be their own group.

Everyone hates the Steelers, including many Steelers fans. Also winning 15% of Super Bowls is definitely Superstars group regardless of what happened last season

Bashez
Jul 19, 2004

:10bux:

Doppelganger posted:

How can you tell if a receiver is a bad route runner? I always hear people talk about how well players do in this area, but I don't understand how you could know that unless you studied their playbook.

edit: Here's a more packed question, but if anyone's up to the task I'd appreciate it. I'd like to know more about audibles and playcalling, particularly some basic strategies. Would anyone be willing to maybe mspaint a basic offense and defense formation, explain what the QB might think when he sees the defense's formation, and then post how the QB would shift his guys around?



The fuzziness is supposed to represent drifting. The number one problem bad receivers have is drifting away from the quarterback which allows the defense to get under the receiver and intercept passes. Rounded routes are bad because it is harder to react to a hard stick and cut than to someone that chops their feet 3 steps and then cuts. It hurts but good receivers will just stick a leg and go.

It will be hard for anyone to MS Paint what a QB might read. It's a very very advanced thing. Some of the easier markers are things like safety depth, LB depth and presnap motion, ie, a line backer coming up like he's going to blitz. Shallow safeties you'd want to run a guy behind. Probably a guy under as well, they are probably covering for a linebacker who might be leaving the area. It's complicated and none of us are professional quarterbacks!

Blackula69
Apr 1, 2007

DEHUMANIZE  YOURSELF  &  FACE  TO  BLACULA
Playing Madden is really good for reads, especially if you play with someone who knows what they're doing. I taught my roommate how to read a defense one afternoon. It's advanced stuff, though, and it brings in all the knowledge of defensive and offensive formations.

Quiet Feet
Dec 14, 2009

THE HELL IS WITH THIS ASS!?



What exactly does it mean for a defense to have a 1-gap or 2-gap (or A-gap?) scheme? Something to do with plugging holes in the offensive line?

oldfan
Jul 22, 2007

"Mathewson pitched against Cincinnati yesterday. Another way of putting it is that Cincinnati lost a game of baseball."
The other thing with reads is that most defenses (and offenses and even individual players) have significant tells that can be discovered through film study.

Quiet Feet posted:

What exactly does it mean for a defense to have a 1-gap or 2-gap (or A-gap?) scheme? Something to do with plugging holes in the offensive line?

Most players in a defensive front (anyone playing close to the line) have a "gap responsibility" to stuff a run in a particular gap (gaps being basically just a terminology assigned to the space around offensive linemen). The A gap is the gap between the guard and the center on each side. Most defenders are 1 gap, the most typical 2 gap defender is a 3-4 nose tackle which is why those guys are huge - they can physically take up both A gaps.

oldfan fucked around with this message at 00:01 on Jul 8, 2010

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WombBroom
Dec 3, 2008

I'm not afraid of heights; I'm afraid of widths.

jeffersonlives posted:

The other thing with reads is that most defenses (and offenses and even individual players) have significant tells that can be discovered through film study.


Most players in a defensive front (anyone playing close to the line) have a "gap responsibility" to stuff a run in a particular gap (gaps being basically just a terminology assigned to the space around offensive linemen). The A gap is the gap between the guard and the center on each side. Most defenders are 1 gap, the most typical 2 gap defender is a 3-4 nose tackle which is why those guys are huge - they can physically take up both A gaps.

To expand on this, one term you'll hear thrown around a lot is the "3-technique tackle". This refers to the gap this tackle plays, not some secret football technique no one will tell you about. Specifically, the gap between the Offensive Guard and the Offensive Tackle on the Strongside of the Offensive Line, or the right side when looking forward as the Quarterback.

It goes (sorta) like this:


**DE***-******NT**-***UT***-***DE
LT**-**LG**-**C**-**RG**-**RT

The Spacing isn't really perfect, but you get the general idea. The Nose Tackle or NT would be the 1 Gap penetrator, and the Under Tackle or UT would be the 3 Gap or 3 technique.

Link:http://chi.scout.com/2/651881.html

All 3-technique tackles will be compared to Warren Sapp forever and ever, Amen.

WombBroom fucked around with this message at 01:10 on Jul 8, 2010

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