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Henchman of Santa posted:Chasing people and reacting to their motions is more tiring than running a route or blocking assignment Plus the defense doesn't know where the play is going so everyone has to be ready for everything on each play. The offense has the initiative and can run a variety of sets and formations that rotate the load while the plays key on the same guy on the defense and wear him out.
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Sep 22, 2017 01:16
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Henchman of Santa posted:Chasing people and reacting to their motions is more tiring than running a route or blocking assignment That and offensive players know where the ball is going every play, whereas everyone on the defense has to be prepared for it to go anywhere.
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Sep 22, 2017 01:18
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So I watched my first ever game all the way through and I think I've picked up on how everything generally works, but I have a few questions. What is actually happening with the beginning kick off to the other end? It seems like everyone just kind of stands around while the dude kicks it and then the whole process starts like normal regardless of whether the ball is caught or not. It's 4 tries to get to the (superimposed) yellow line right? Are kickers/punters (not sure what the proper terminology is) pretty much completely disposable? How is Jameis Winston viewed by the general audience? To my inexperienced view I was kind of amazed that he made even half of those throws. I just decided to watch the Bucs because I follow the Rays in MLB, from the some of the reading I've done it seems like I'm jumping in at a good point. Also is there a good resource for the names and definitions of the different positions? Bonus points if it has a basic explanation of how they interact with each other.
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Sep 22, 2017 03:42
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screaden posted:So I watched my first ever game all the way through and I think I've picked up on how everything generally works, but I have a few questions. The point of the kickoff is to give the receiving team a chance to catch the ball and run it out. If the ball goes into the end zone, it is downed for a touchback, wherein the ball is placed at the 25. Most kickers these days are good enough to put it right through the end zone, so most kickoffs result in touchbacks. Kickoffs were from the 40 yard line for a long time, but because of too many touchbacks they moved it back to the 35. They will probably move it back to the 30 before long. Yes, the game is that the offense gets four tries to advance the ball 10 yards. If they succeed, they get another set of four downs. If they fail, the other team gets the ball. Kickers are far from disposable. Good kickers are immensely important (see the answer above). Kicking the ball between the uprights is worth 3 points and good kickers who can do that from a long way away are rare. Good punters can flip field position and force the opponents to make long drives to score. I know nothing about Jameis Winston, though. I watched him play for Florida State a few times and know he won the Heisman award, but that's about it.
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Sep 22, 2017 03:51
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Touchbacks only come out to the 20 in the pros, but yeah in general it's usually the smarter move not to return it. It's also the most dangerous play in football so there have been changes made at all levels to decrease the number of returns. Jameis Winston is considered a pretty good to middling quarterback in the pros. He was extremely good in college.
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Sep 22, 2017 04:04
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Touchbacks on kickoffs are to the 25.
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Sep 22, 2017 04:12
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Henchman of Santa posted:Chasing people and reacting to their motions is more tiring than running a route or blocking assignment I'm trying to see that.. maybe. But that would mean o line work would be harder than d line. I see corners running with their man but in zones the DBs seem to sit back more then go 100%.
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Sep 22, 2017 04:22
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Uhh yeah I think almost all of the info on kicking that was posted is wrong? At least in NFL terms. I know jack poo poo about college ball so sorry if you were talking about that. A touchback (when a kickoff goes out the back of the endzone, or is caught and knelt down in the endzone) goes out to the 25 yard line. And the ball is kicked from a team's own 35 yard line. Ie, 15 yards behind the 50 away from the guy who is going to catch it. Touchbacks used to only go to the 20, and kickoffs were done from the 30. Both of these were moved in closer to each other to reduce the incentive for teams to return kicks, since kickoffs are dangerous as hell. It hasn't really had much effect, though, because no one gets to the NFL level without the drive to be a crazy person and run out against impossible odds. A team gets 4 tries (called "downs") to advance 10 yards. But unless they are super close after their third try, or they are down by a ton of points late in the game, they will almost always punt on 4th down. Because if you go for it and don't reach the line you needed, the other team just gets the ball where you left off. Whereas if you punt the ball on 4th down, the team gets it like 40+ yards further away assuming it was a good punt. Which makes it much harder for them to score themselves on their drive. Docjowles fucked around with this message at 04:42 on Sep 22, 2017 |
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Sep 22, 2017 04:32
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Positions: This can get real complicated, so I'll stick to the basics. American football decended from Rugby in the 2nd half of the 19th century, so there are some archaic names based on how the game was played then, as well as some Rugby holdovers. The 11 players on the team are divided into two groups, the forwards and the backs. Forwards play on or near the line of scrimmage (derived from the Rugby term "scrummage" or scrum), while back play behind it. Offense: The offense is required to have at least 7 forwards and at most 4 backs. There are five interior linemen, whose jobs are primarily to block (and are not permitted to catch forward passes), and two ends, whose main job is to catch passes. The linemen are: Center - plays at the center of the line, snaps the ball to the quarterback to start the play. Guards - one on either side of the center. Named because their original job was to guard the center and quarterback during the exchange of the ball. Tackles - one on either side of the guards. Named because on defense, the players at those positions did most of the tackling. So the standard line formation is: ETGCGTE The names of the backs are holdovers from Rugby. The farthest man from the line was fully back, or the fullback. Two players were halfway back between the line and the fullback - the halfbacks. One more player was between the halfbacks and the line, or a quarter of the way back - the quarterback. Defense: Defense is much more complicated than offense, as far as positions go. There are a variety of formations with lots of position names, but a base defense to start with is the 4-3-4. That is, there are four down linemen ("down" because they start the play with at least one hand on the ground), three linebackers, and four backs. The main job of the down linemen is to rush into the backfield any way they can and either tackle a runner or get to the quarterback before he can pass the ball. The linebackers play a yard or two behind the line, and their job is to plug holes in the line so a runner can't get through, cover running backs coming out of the backfield for a pass, and generally support the work of the linemen. The backs are split into the cornerbacks and safeties. The cornerbacks play wide and near the line (at the "corners") and cover speedy ends and backs running to catch a pass. The safeties play toward the middle of the field and also cover passes over the middle or come up in run support. They are the "safeties" because they were the last line of defense. These are the very basics to get you started on following what's going on. You'll have to spend some time learning the intricacies of what your own team does with these formations.
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Sep 22, 2017 04:46
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Docjowles posted:Uhh yeah I think almost all of the info on kicking that was posted is wrong? At least in NFL terms. I know jack poo poo about college ball so sorry if you were talking about that. A touchback (when a kickoff goes out the back of the endzone, or is caught and knelt down in the endzone) goes out to the 25 yard line. And the ball is kicked from a team's own 35 yard line. Ie, 15 yards behind the 50 away from the guy who is going to catch it. NCAA kickoffs from the 35, and may go back to the 30 before long, which is what I was referencing.
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Sep 22, 2017 04:56
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Deteriorata posted:The names of the backs are holdovers from Rugby. The farthest man from the line was fully back, or the fullback. Two players were halfway back between the line and the fullback - the halfbacks. One more player was between the halfbacks and the line, or a quarter of the way back - the quarterback. This is historically correct but very confusing for anyone watching the modern game for the first time and would lead you to believe a halfback/tailback is a fullback if you're watching a game today. For an easier position identifier explanation on the backs: the quarterback almost always takes the snap. He's the dude who will be throwing 99% of the time if it's a passing play. If there are two running backs in the backfield and one is lined up closer to the line of scrimmage (where the ball is snapped) than the other one, that one is the fullback. These are generally larger, slower running backs whose main job is to block. The man lined up farther back in a two running back set is generally the halfback, he's probably the guy with the job of actually carrying the ball most of the time on running plays. This can get more complicated, but if you're starting on the NFL and not college that's probably the most you'll need to know outside of a rare play here and there. The NFL as a league has largely gone to single running back sets on most plays, and that running back is generally a halfback because those guys are more dangerous with the ball in their hands. I'll see if I can dig up some diagrams later tonight or tomorrow for easier identification, since all of this goes way easier with pictures.
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Sep 22, 2017 05:06
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screaden posted:I just decided to watch the Bucs because I follow the Rays in MLB, from the some of the reading I've done it seems like I'm jumping in at a good point. As a lifelong Bucs fan, you couldn't have picked a better year, other than 2002, obviously. We've made a ton of great offseason moves, hopefully Jameis finally matures into his final "franchise QB" form, and he has all the weapons to throw to. Evans, DJax, Brate, OJ Howard, etc. The defense looks excellent, maybe as good as our Superbowl defense at times. Granted, we've only played one game, but I am fully bought into the Bucs doing extremely well this year. Wildcard for sure, and if we can beat Atlanta, maybe we even take the South.
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Sep 22, 2017 05:11
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Deteriorata posted:Positions: Thanks for this, super informative and just what I was looking for. It made it very hard to follow replays because the commentators would either refer to the players by their names, which I don't know, or by their positions, which I didn't know where they were on the field. Thanks for all the other responses too, not too fussed on the exact yardage for the kickoff for the moment but at least I know what's happening now! WampaLord posted:As a lifelong Bucs fan, you couldn't have picked a better year, other than 2002, obviously. 
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Sep 22, 2017 05:47
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screaden posted:So I watched my first ever game all the way through and I think I've picked up on how everything generally works, but I have a few questions. The receiving team on kickoffs has to defend 10 yards past the ball on kickoffs or else the kicking team can do an onside kick with very favorable odds, which is why you see a line of players up by the kicking team then they fall back to block for the runner. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SWzPT1itdTk The very first one here is what you don't want to do Everyone runs and blocks on every kickoff because if you stand around and watch to see where the ball lands before you start blocking then you're always going to have poo poo field position
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Sep 22, 2017 05:58
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WampaLord posted:
loving lol
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Sep 22, 2017 06:16
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Chichevache posted:loving lol I'm factoring in that it's mostly the same great d from last year and they're healthy and look just as good, if not better.
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Sep 22, 2017 06:26
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WampaLord posted:As a lifelong Bucs fan, you couldn't have picked a better year, other than 2002, obviously. you played the bears
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Sep 22, 2017 07:21
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a neat cape posted:you played the bears To fully recreate the Bucs fan cycle, I have to get him overhyped now so he can be crushingly disappointed later. Just kidding, this is our year, go Bucs!
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Sep 22, 2017 07:23
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screaden posted:Are kickers/punters (not sure what the proper terminology is) pretty much completely disposable? I don't have a lot to add, but kickers are very important
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Sep 22, 2017 09:50
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Going to my first NFL match this weekend in London. Very excited even though it's the Jags. We Brits love a plucky under dog right?
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Sep 22, 2017 14:07
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If Blake Bortles can't get on the return flight because he lost his passport, check Coughlin's pockets. You don't want your country to be stuck with a Blake Bortles.
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Sep 22, 2017 16:04
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On 3rd and forever, why dont defenses line up with the majority of their players on the first down line, red rover style? I saw that happen once during a college game and it was v effective
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Sep 24, 2017 00:02
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Nissin Cup Nudist posted:On 3rd and forever, why dont defenses line up with the majority of their players on the first down line, red rover style? I saw that happen once during a college game and it was v effective Because this is easily overcome by an obscure technique called blocking. Or sending someone on a go route. There are literalll ten ways off the top of my head to beat that.
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Sep 24, 2017 00:10
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Nissin Cup Nudist posted:On 3rd and forever, why dont defenses line up with the majority of their players on the first down line, red rover style? I saw that happen once during a college game and it was v effective It's really easy for a tight end to slip behind and make an uncontested catch
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Sep 24, 2017 00:11
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swickles posted:Because this is easily overcome by an obscure technique called blocking. Is that you, Tom?
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Sep 24, 2017 10:50
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WampaLord posted:The defense looks excellent, maybe as good as our Superbowl defense at times. Feel dumb yet
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Sep 24, 2017 20:10
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Playing Madden 17 and fumbled on a kickoff return. The commentary says something about a new rule where you can't advance the ball in that situation under the two minute warning. Does that only apply to the receiving team, or is it considered a dead ball when recovered no matter which team recovers?
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Oct 11, 2017 02:48
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SkunkDuster posted:Playing Madden 17 and fumbled on a kickoff return. The commentary says something about a new rule where you can't advance the ball in that situation under the two minute warning. Does that only apply to the receiving team, or is it considered a dead ball when recovered no matter which team recovers? The rule is: "If any player fumbles after the two-minute warning in a half, only the fumbling player is permitted to recover and/or advance the ball. If recovered by any other offensive player, the ball is dead at the spot of the fumble unless it is recovered behind the spot of the fumble. In that case, the ball is dead at the spot of recovery. Any defensive player may recover and/or advance any fumble at any time." I'm guessing there have been problems with teams deliberately "fumbling" the ball forward as time is running out to extend the play and avoid being tackled.
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Oct 11, 2017 02:59
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Deteriorata posted:I'm guessing there have been problems with teams deliberately "fumbling" the ball forward as time is running out to extend the play and avoid being tackled. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holy_Roller_(American_football)
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Oct 11, 2017 04:05
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Ron Jeremy posted:https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holy_Roller_(American_football) I'm triggered
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Oct 11, 2017 04:27
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Volkerball posted:Feel dumb yet Not really, they're injured to gently caress and back, if they were healthy I could very well have been right.
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Oct 11, 2017 09:24
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Thought of something earlier today while listening to some podcasts. There's talk in both NFL and college sports of scripted plays. I.e. the first 15-20 offensive plays would be planned and practised in advance, and after that point the offensive coordinator will open up the play book. How does this work in practice? Do they literally have "First down after kick off - run this play"? What if they're unsuccessful and the play is stopped short/intercepted? Also, does the offence not practice the other plays during the week (I guess they focus on the scripted ones in short weeks and do the rest in byes/preseason)?
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Oct 11, 2017 18:18
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EvilHawk posted:Thought of something earlier today while listening to some podcasts. I don't think teams necessarily stick 100% to the script. Like if you were planning to run a first down dive play and wound up in a 3rd and 10 situation when it was supposed to come up then the coordinator is going to call a different play.
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Oct 11, 2017 18:21
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EvilHawk posted:How does this work in practice? Do they literally have "First down after kick off - run this play"? What if they're unsuccessful and the play is stopped short/intercepted? No, and for that reason. There will be variations. quote:I often did the first 25. So, I did less thinking in the early stages of the game and I'd be less nervous. I would have check points for the defense. This way, I could orchestrate the first quarter of the game. I was able to initiate my plan. On third-and-1, for example, I'd go off that list to a short-yardage list. Then I'd go back to the script. quote:McVay notes that he comes into each game with 20 “openers” or “priority plays”—calls that “knowing we’re in normal down-and-distance, operating where you’ve got your run-pass balance, [that] we know at some point we want to get it called.” For most coaches, third-down plays have a separate section on the call sheet; in fact, many are broken down into subsections depending on the circumstance. “If things go great, you’re going to just go right down that list,” McVay says. “[But] it’s not realistic.”
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Oct 11, 2017 19:13
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Beyond being plays the coaches are confident in / the players can execute, the other aspect to the "script" plays is that sometimes they are meant to answer specific questions about the defensive scheme. So ideally you figure out "oh well if they're going to do that then plays X Y and Z would exploit that". Supposedly. Sometimes when coaches talk about how clever their organization is about stuff like this and then you watch them challenge plays where the call was obviously correct or mismanage the clock in ways 12-year-olds playing Madden would never do it makes you wonder.
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Oct 12, 2017 15:33
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pangstrom posted:Supposedly. Sometimes when coaches talk about how clever their organization is about stuff like this and then you watch them challenge plays where the call was obviously correct or mismanage the clock in ways 12-year-olds playing Madden would never do it makes you wonder. To be fair you can also be a legitimately brilliant offensive coach and still have absolutely no clue in these areas of the game. See--Andy Reid. Oh god I just flashed back to that playoff game against the Pats a couple of years ago again.
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Oct 12, 2017 15:37
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Grittybeard posted:To be fair you can also be a legitimately brilliant offensive coach and still have absolutely no clue in these areas of the game. See--Andy Reid. If Andy Reid had an assistant coach in charge of clock management he would have many rings.
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Oct 12, 2017 17:12
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WampaLord posted:As a lifelong Bucs fan, you couldn't have picked a better year, other than 2002, obviously. Am I allowed to join in on the self-loathing "my team forever sucks" posting yet?
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Oct 31, 2017 06:08
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screaden posted:Am I allowed to join in on the self-loathing "my team forever sucks" posting yet? Welcome to being a fan in the NFC South, feel free to go on incomprehensible rants about how poo poo your team is and will always be even when you do end up leading the division.
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Oct 31, 2017 06:10
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I was wondering about the green stickers on the backs of QBs helmets and found that it was because they have a radio in the helmet and one person on offense and one on defense is allowed to have a helmet radio. What is the penalty if two people on offense or defense are wearing radio helmets?
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Nov 27, 2017 04:28
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