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Cole posted:I've heard people say speed is the reason the option won't work in the NFL since DBs and LBs can close on the ball so much quicker than college, but doesn't the speed of an NFL offense in comparison to a college offense compensate for that? Not nearly enough. The ball can only be snapped so fast; the QB can only get the mesh with the FB done so quickly (he's got to have some time to make the read); the RB has to stay at the QB's speed to stay in pitch relationship. This I think is partly why zone-read is catching on as a wrinkle far more than veer has; you can get the ball moving to the point of attack far quicker.
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Jun 15, 2012 12:59
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Your Gucci ones that you'll see at any place that's had money to spend in the last little while will be made of extremely lightweight foam in a fluro fabric jacket, with a little shaft or spring in the bottom; these will collapse quite happily no matter what angle you land on them and then recover their shape, possibly after a little gentle encouragement. Older ones that you'll see at high schools that have to buy textbooks with that cash are generally freestanding; they'll often also be heavy, dense and rigid so that they won't fall over in a gentle breeze; they will hurt on that once-in-a-blue-moon occasion when some poor kid falls on them the wrong way.
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Aug 13, 2012 21:46
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There's a game called Bowl Bound College Football which is slightly buggy but it could seriously take over America if someone put some money behind it.
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Aug 20, 2012 21:25
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shyguy posted:What are the basic differences between offsides, neutral zone infractions and encroachment? I've been watching football for years and understand what it is to go offsides and all, but I'm not keen enough to differentiate the three. Someone asked this a while ago, so I wrote it up last year in my rules thread about the difference between the three phrases depending on whether you're on Friday, Saturday or Sunday (any rules questions are welcome in there, no matter how elementary). quote:I'll repost, with the addition that "unabated to the quarterback" means you've gone right through the neutral zone prior to the snap and have an unimpeded, full-speed full-intensity path to wallop the QB if the play actually goes off; it's very unlikely that the offense will be able to get anything from the play and very likely that the QB's going to take a huge hit, so we shut the play down before that happens and just give them the yards.
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Sep 10, 2012 12:06
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DrKennethNoisewater posted:So is it correct that defenders are allowed to draw the offense into a false start by acting as though they are about to jump as long as the defender never crosses into the neutral zone? No. There is a specific rule about coming right up and doing something that's deliberately designed to make them jump. Of course, before you call this you have to be absolutely sure that it's egregious enough that the defender can't reasonably* argue "But I was just trying to time my blitz and they didn't snap it!", so the safest thing to do is just tell him to knock it off, and 99% of defenders will only do it until they're told to stop. NFL 4-6-5-d: quote:Other examples of action or inaction that are to be construed as delay of the game include, but are not limited to, the following: NCAA 7-1-5: quote:The defensive team requirements are as follows: *He'll try to argue this anyway, no matter how obvious it was that he was trying to cheat...
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Sep 10, 2012 19:49
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JetsGuy posted:Hey stupid question because I am really Sure it can. What they're terrified of (especially with instant replay hanging over them) is only running a 1.5 second kneeldown and leaving time on the clock.
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Sep 12, 2012 09:16
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as to why the Bolts punted last night.
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Well, (NCAA) 3-2-1-a says:quote:No period shall end until the ball is dead and the referee declares the period ended. And Rule 5-1-1 applies immediately the ball becomes dead at the end of the down: quote:c. A new series shall be awarded to Team B if, after fourth down, Team A has failed to earn a first down. So the rulebook sequence of events goes something like this: Ball snapped on 4th down Time expires in the 4th period The ball becomes dead Team A has failed to make the line to gain Team B is awarded a new series The referee declares the game over
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Sep 12, 2012 16:44
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JetsGuy posted:So the conventional wisdom is that a period can't end on a defensive penalty. If the defense commits a dead ball foul (say a personal foul after the last down of the period), is that an exception to the rule? This one's a hella deep rabbit hole. I was halfway to an answer, then went into the NFL book and had to delete it all and start again. NCAA: The untimed down rule can be triggered if a penalty is enforced against either team, or by offsetting penalties. It only applies to live-ball fouls during a down in which time expires, and does not apply if the penalty includes loss of down. NFL: The untimed down rule is only triggered by an enforced defensive team penalty (note that in this context, "defense" refers to the team that does not have the ball at that moment in time, and not the team that did not snap the ball at the start of the down) or by an offset. Personal fouls that occur "in the immediate action after the ball is dead" are enforced as live-ball fouls and may be followed by an untimed down.
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Sep 12, 2012 17:58
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quote:What is the fascination with college football in America? I can understand if you live in an area not easily accessible to an NFL team Let's just pause for a moment and think about exactly what this implies. The USA is a hideously loving gigantic country with a gargantuan number of people living in it; there's 280-odd towns and cities with a population of more than 100,000 people (in Canada, there are about 50 such places). There's only 32 NFL teams and their catchment areas go nowhere near thousands of square miles of places and people. Then you can start thinking about historical reasons and how college football is the original form of the sport; but you'll never quite get it until you take into account how much of America there is and how little pro football there used to be for long enough to get traditions firmly entrenched.
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Sep 13, 2012 21:50
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Cole posted:Can you review a play and then call a penalty? In the Packers game, which I only saw highlights of, the ref said "After review, there were 12 defensive players on the field." Much as I'd like to get on the scab for something (I bet his announcement sucked, hyuk hyuk), 12 men is specifically reviewable because it's not a judgement call; you look at the screen and count.
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Sep 15, 2012 08:21
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They do it that way in the NFL because of how the play clock works on a free kick; you'll see the B hand the ball to the kicker and then make a twirling motion with his hand before he runs away to the sideline; the 25-second clock starts, and then the R waits for the B to reach the sideline before he gives the RFP to let the kicker actually kick it, with the play clock at about 20 or 19. Apparently it saves a few seconds each time, and when the real officials are at work the NFL is terrifyingly good at getting its games to finish in their magical 2hr50min-3hr20min window, so I'm prepared to believe it does actually have an effect.
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Sep 25, 2012 10:17
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Here's a fantastic SI article they wrote in 1999, the first year of the K-ball. http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1017189/1/index.htm quote:Who knew? Who knew that footballs had such a turbulent secret life? Volumes have been written about scuffed or juiced-up baseballs, paeans have been sung to red-white-and-blue basketballs, entire belief systems have been tied to titanium-filled golf balls, but until recently all we thought about footballs was that they are damned hard to dribble. It turns out that the Wilson football, which NFL teams have been kicking around since 1941, has quite a checkered past, one that heretofore had been whispered about only in equipment rooms. Footballs have been steam-bathed, baked in aluminum foil, dunked in water, brushed with wire, bonked with hammers, buffed with strips of artificial turf, jumped on, shot out of Jugs machines, pounded into me walls or racquetball courts, inflated and deflated more often than Oprah Winfrey, Armor All-ed, shoe-polished and lemonaded, crushed under weightlifting plates and, like a female wrestler at a county fair, dunked in evaporated milk. Maybe even microwaved.
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Sep 26, 2012 01:21
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You're asked when you join the league if you support anyone. What they then do is go round your old high school association, and all the guys who white-hatted crews you worked on, and say "hey, is Steve a fan of any of our teams?" If for some mysterious reason the answer should differ from what you told them, they tell you to gently caress off. Assuming you're not a lying bastard, you don't work their games, or any games at the sharp end of the season that could directly affect how they finish. I'd also like to think that the kind of guy who'd want to become an NFL official so he could screw over the Cowboys is the same kind of guy who wouldn't have the patience to spend 25 years calling high school and college ball before he got the chance; but then, Nature is always building faster, better idiots, so.
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Sep 28, 2012 19:38
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dokmo posted:Before the snap, why does a QB point out who the mike is? (At least, I assume that's what I'm hearing him do.) Isn't this already known? I mean, are the defensive players pointing out the tight end? Also, why is it important to identify him? Along this line, do those calls at the line go in fashions? I swear the pre-snap-count call that everyone did always used to be "1 high" "2 high" "3 high", identifying the coverage shell; now they're shouting who the Mike is. In five years is it going to change again to something like "corners loose/corners tight"?
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Oct 1, 2012 11:53
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McKracken posted:The mike always has to be established and the QB is always the one to make this call, so it probably won't be disappearing from the pre-snap calls any time soon. I mean, I'm coming at this from the perspective of there's one team I officiate with a couple of ex-NFL Europe coaches, and they have good connections that mean they're often adapting NFL things down to their own level; and they've only been having the QB call the Mike out loud while under center this season just gone. If it's that important to know who it is, how did they identify him before? Why have they changed to having the QB shout it from under center? Why did they use to put emphasis on shouting the coverage shell, and now leave it to individuals? (Maybe this is moving a bit away from 'rookie questions'...)
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Oct 3, 2012 15:46
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In Canada the roster rules are different and it's relatively common to see kicker/punters. I remember a few years back the Falcons tried to do both with Michael Koenen and all they achieved was absolutely tanking his field goal accuracy. Practicality concerns: you can't rep kicker/punter/snapper on field goals as a self-contained unit, you have to find someone else to hold; and with a kicker and punter they can practice kickoffs and punts at the same time - the K/P has to do them seperately and gets less time repping each.
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Oct 5, 2012 16:55
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The thing about facemasks in particular is that incidental contact with the facemask is legal; and that includes a grab-and-release where the mask is not twisted, turned or pulled.
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Oct 7, 2012 22:45
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Gatorade is unquestionably the foulest thing I've ever put in my mouth. Is it like "the worse it tastes, the better it is for you"?
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Oct 10, 2012 19:11
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Maybe it's just down to whoever produces it for the UK market, but I tried it when it first came out, and then I've had to have someone else's a couple of times when I've run out of my own, and every time the same result. It just tastes like an agglomeration of things that aren't food, whereas with Lucozade it's at least like the guy who mixed it up ate some fruit once.
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Oct 10, 2012 19:27
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Dangersim posted:Is gatorade fairly knew in the uk? I remember you saying you had "tried it once" which sounded odd considering it has been a staple in america for as long as I can remember and is sold in every store that has drinks Since sports drinks have been a thing, the market's been pretty much cornered by Lucozade, and they basically had 20 years to establish themselves before Coke and Pepsi waded in; they've got enough sales to make it worthwhile, but Lucozade's still got something like 60-70% of the market. It's quite amusing when you consider that this is the combined marketing forces of Coke and Pepsi we're talking about. It's basically the same problem that Powerade has in the USA; Gatorade is such a gigantic gorilla, and it had so much lead time to set itself up comfortably and get settled in, that no matter how hard they push, the gorilla isn't going anywhere that it doesn't want to. Over here, Lucozade is the gorilla and always will be as long as every time a Premier League player goes down injured, on come the Lucozade bottles.
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Oct 11, 2012 00:45
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BIGFOOT PEE BED posted:Less surprising when you realise Lucozade has the power of GSK behind it But the interesting thing to me is how cannily they spend; they only do big ad buys when there's a reason to. Most of their marketing is done through placement and sponsorship (and ensuring they have bottles in every shop that a van delivers to), that's why they've just bought the McLaren rear wing.
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Oct 11, 2012 18:51
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Noah posted:What happens if a punt is blocked through the back of the end zone? For instance, a kicker kicking in his own endzone, it gets blocked and shoots back through the back. Touchback? Safety? When the ball goes dead in an end zone and it's not a touchdown, you work out touchback/safety by deciding whose fault it is that the ball ended up there, and then it goes against them. In this situation the rulebook blames Team A for having to kick the ball, not Team B for being good enough to block it.
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Oct 19, 2012 21:29
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The NFL has a rule forbidding the use of a tee on a free kick after a safety, so their teams always punt. I was going to go round and sweep up a few loose ends, and then 45 minutes later I had a big long post and was going into probably far more detail than is good for this thread, so I decided gently caress it, football over here starts again in a couple of weeks, so instead of doing odds and sods out of context I'm going to just go to the rules thread (which will happily field any rules question from the 1st downies) and go over the entire rule about kicks because that would be a good idea. Oh, and a stats question; if Team A punts, it's muffed, and they get the ball back, does that count as a 4th down conversion the same way that a successful QB sneak on 4th and 1 does? Trin Tragula fucked around with this message at 19:39 on Oct 20, 2012 |
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Oct 20, 2012 19:32
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Chichevache posted:If you look at Australian football they do it too. In fact all the best. (read hardest hitting) punters are Aussie Rules players. Jeff Wing... I think you'll find his name is Brad Wing  Anyway, these images might be useful for illustrating the subtle differences between the three types of football. Steeden:  Sherrin:  Wilson:  I've managed to find a way to get an American football to bounce with some vague level of consistency (you've got to tilt it slightly backwards and bounce it off the last little curving part of the panels, rather than directly on the point), but I wouldn't like to try it under pressure unless I was on artificial turf.
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Oct 29, 2012 14:10
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You could invent something that explodes when it rains, instead of just going soggy!
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Nov 6, 2012 23:52
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Vando posted:Does anyone here actually play? Is there a thread for that? I'm about to become a real life rookie, preliminary tryout on Sunday. Which one is that?
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Nov 8, 2012 18:13
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What they'll do is have him run some drills and see what he doesn't completely suck at, and then he'll get bolted onto the bottom of the depth chart somewhere, which I am currently leading a one-man campaign to rename it the "shallow chart" to better reflect most teams' situation.Vando posted:Carlisle. A mighty 21 points from 8 fixtures, a mere 300+ against. The only way is up! Staffordshire scored 42 and shipped 427 in ten games; and I'd have been morbidly interested in the Highland-Carlisle scores if they'd happened. Yeah, enjoy the bus ride to Scotlandshire every other week. At least they've chucked you in with the Presidents this year, so if you get lucky you might just get to play in front of something that can be reasonably called a "crowd". At worst you'll be able to walk through a few doors with signs on that say "Players and Officials Only", which always gives me a little kick whenever I do that.
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Nov 8, 2012 21:27
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If you can catch a pointy ball you'll probably end up as WR or TE depending on what your OC is trying to do (and then spend most of your day run blocking). If not, you'll probably go in the secondary somewhere, or maybe linebacker if you can tackle well. You may also get a chance to return kicks, which is usually a good way to get your hands on the ball because either they'll be punting or kicking off to you.
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Nov 9, 2012 16:07
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pasaluki posted:I think some of the Goalie skills would translate well into the Free Safety position. Yeah, the vast majority of defense over here (and I'm talking like 90%) uses one safety because there just isn't any kind of downfield passing threat (and I define a "downfield passing threat" as anyone who can throw the ball more than 10 yards past the neutral zone and have it go less than 10 yards away from the guy he's aiming at), so the other guy is far better off being up somewhere he might be able to do something useful.
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Nov 10, 2012 14:10
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Ghost of Reagan Past posted:Is that the single wing I see the team in white running? Neat. More probably double-wing, which was brought to us by Don Markham himself in the late 80s when he had a spell coaching in Northampton, and a lot of the coaches he taught are still knocking around. Sheffield Predators just rode it to the Div 2 Bowl in the season just gone. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-z7v7XMh2dA from 4:00, or https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ERRJpJLthYM .
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Nov 10, 2012 17:53
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bvlah posted:Is there some rule where a defender can't tackle by pulling on arms? It always seems to me that when getting stiffarmed the defender can grab the arm and drag the ballcarrier down instead of trying to push the other guy back ineffectively. No, but good luck doing that when a fast-moving pissed off dude is smacking you right in the face.
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Nov 11, 2012 22:16
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Sash! posted:I'm saying the important schools wouldn't be able to play those schedules because the option wouldn't exist. There would be no Ohio, Temple, and Navy for Penn State to have played this year. And let's be realistic: if you're not a superpower or at least a BCS conference member already, you're not going to be turning into one. Since, oh, 1985...who is a power now that wasn't one then. Nobody, really. Utah and TCU came up. Maybe Boise State too. TCU was a SWC team too, so its more like they just came back to what they used to be. Clinging to that .05% just leaves us with a lot of non-competitive football. The thing is, there's already I-A schools playing Div II schools for their cupcake games. You'd need a seperate rule banning your new division from playing anyone outside it, and then that becomes extremely unpopular with the cupcake schools because they're totally in a win-win situation right now.
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Nov 12, 2012 20:16
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Vando posted:But seriously, it was pretty much as Trin says: my lack of power but good hands means I'm probably looking at WR or DB at the bottom of the depth chart, the HC said as much. I also mentioned my interest in coaching and apparently there's opportunity to get involved there too, which is cool. They'll be busting out the inverted veer in no time! You're gonna show up next week and find out you've been appointed Assistant Wide Recievers Coach, and they're already organising you a lift to Scotlandshire for the next Level 1 course, you do realise that?
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Nov 13, 2012 00:51
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Vando posted:No courses til Feb but yes I can see this being a plausible scenario. I don't really know anything about how thin on the ground coaches etc are for teams over here. Is everyone really *that* desperate? It's more a case of "you can never have too many coaches" than outright desperation; you can put a team on the field with a minimal staff, but the more guys you have who can help with coaching and who know vaguely what they're doing, the better the team gets. Also a way of keeping you in the sport when a clodhopping lineman sits on your knee in Week 6 and you're on the happy gas wondering whether it's really worth it.
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Nov 13, 2012 20:27
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OK, here's Blocking 101. We'll begin at the beginning; what does the rulebook think a block is? You might be surprised; it's a very broad definition. All rule references are NCAA unless otherwise stated. Rule 2-3-1-a: quote:a. Blocking is obstructing an opponent by contacting him with any part of the blocker's body. I would say that being able to legally block players who are not the runner is one of the two features that, more than any other, differentiate American (and Canadian!) football from the other codes. (The other is, of course, the forward pass.) In the category of "poo poo you probably didn't know": this is a very wide-ranging definition of a "block". For instance, when a linebacker shoulder-charges a running back who's carrying the ball, and knocks him down, that's technically a block; it's not a tackle unless there's some sort of encircling or holding element to the contact. This is why you'll see a lot of "Exception: Against the runner" in the blocking rules; because otherwise it would be very hard to legally stop him. Now that we know that: from now on, "block" and "tackle" are used in their common, "offensive players stopping defensive players getting to the runner" and "defensive players stopping the runner" senses. I'll also take this chance to note that the "offense" is the team that is in possession, the "defense" is the team that isn't; and that these designations change after a change of possession. There are four different types of block. The first is a block that is delivered from behind an opponent and the contact is at or below the waist. This is known as "clipping". It's almost never legal to clip someone and it's a very rude thing to do. NCAA has a lot of very complicated words (rule 9-1-5, if you want to look them up), which basically amount to "no clipping unless you're running a few very specifically-designed plays". NFL rules allow clipping above the knee in close line play (and if it's a run that's going outside the tackles, it must be at the point of attack), which is just one of the many reasons why their current push for player safety is hypocritical bullshit. If illegal, clipping is a 15-yard personal foul. The second is a block that is delivered from behind an opponent and above the waist; this is known as a "block in the back". Blocks in the back are subject to mostly the same restrictions as clipping in both rulebooks; but because they're not considered to be player safety fouls, they carry 10-yard penalties when illegal. Some things to consider about blocks from behind; it's not a foul if you commit to a block from the front, and then the opponent turns his back on you right before you make contact. A block in the side is not in the back, no matter how much the coach jumps up and down. Touching someone in the back is not blocking in the back, no matter how convincingly the opponent falls over. So now we have blocks from the front and below the waist. The rulebook calls them "blocks below the waist", which some people insist on shortening to "BBW". Everyone else calls them "cut blocks". Blocking below the waist is sometimes legal; never on a kick play or after a change of possession, but on normal scrimmage downs it's quite easy to block legally below the waist. If it is illegal, however, it's a 15-yard personal foul. There are some quite technical rules about who exactly can block below the waist, when they can do it, and how they should do it, but this is Blocking 101, so I'll take anything more detailed to the rules thread. The reason they exist is mostly to discourage blocks to the side of an opponent's knee, or blocks that the opponet doesn't see coming, which is a really good way to cause a lot of very quick damage; but I don't think that cut blocking is inherently dangerous as long as it's heads-up and the other guy can see it coming, and it does serve a very useful purpose in allowing small players to usefully be in blocking schemes against bigger players without requiring double-teams. And finally, you have a block in the front and above the waist, which is just a "block". Blocking is legal at any time while the ball is live, as long as the player being blocked is not obviously out of the play, and as long as the block isn't illegal in some other way (such as if it's pass interference or illegal contact); the NFL has a few further restrictions on blocks that opponents don't see coming. Double-team blocking is legal as long as both players are individually blocking legally, and as long as the blocks are either both above the waist or both below the waist. A high/low or low/high combination block is a chop block, which in any sane rulebook is always illegal. However, since the NFL doesn't give a gently caress, chop blocking is legal on a running play and it doesn't even have to be at the point of attack. When it is illegal, it's a 15-yard personal foul. It is illegal for blockers to grab onto each other in some way while blocking; this is called interlocking inteference, although you'll never see it happen because it isn't coached. It is also illegal on a free kick for three or more players to come within one yard of each other to block opponents; this is an illegal wedge, and likewise. There are a few further restrictions on use of the hands while blocking. "Illegal use of hands" was by far a more common call than a certain other foul until push blocking was legalised back in the 60s; before then, the hands could not be used legally in advance of the elbow (Gene Upshaw was a master at push blocking without getting caught) and players were expected to use their bodies to block. Now that's legal there are a lot fewer illegal use of hands calls; but let's consult Rule 9-3-3-a: quote:A teammate of a ball carrier or a passer legally may block with his shoulders, his hands, the outer surface of his arms or any other part of his body under the following provisions. Again, most of these rules enforce themselves because it's not worth coaching players not to follow them. The one thing that does get called is hands to the face; they're all 10-yard penalties. So, that's blocking. Hope you enjoyed yourself. What? Oh, right. 9-3-3-b. quote:1. The hand(s) and arm(s) shall not be used to grasp, pull or encircle in any way that illegally impedes or illegally obstructs an opponent. Before we move on to the implications of this, I'll just note that it is usually legal for the defense to hold or block offensive players in the back, as long as they're attempting to get to the runner or the ball; what they can't do is just e.g. grab a pulling guard to stop him pulling to the point of attack, or grab a reciever to stop him running his route. So now it's "what's the deal with holding?" And really, that's a whole post in and of itself. The full explanation is here, in last year's rules thread (you may have to scroll down a little to get to it). In summary, though; there's a shitload of things that are technically holding ("you could call holding on every play!" is an exaggeration, but not too much of one), but we tend to no-call most of them because most plays would have ended up more or less the same regardless of whether that guy was being held. Obvious holds that obviously affect the play are much rarer than things that are technically holds. Now, you then have to add those conscious no-calls to no-calls made when we were looking at the block but couldn't see enough to make the call, no-calls made because there's five offensive linemen and two officials to cover them and there's always going to be someone who we aren't looking at, and no-calls made when we were looking right at it and hosed it up anyway, and that's a lot of holding that doesn't get called. And the thing about "hands inside is okay" isn't really literally a thing; what it is is shorthand to avoid having to constantly explain that if the hands stay inside the blockee's frame, it's really loving hard to see what he's actually doing with them, so you might as well not waste your time trying to find a technical hold in there, and go find his teammate who's just been beaten at the point of attack and is about to resort to a big old bearhug to salvage things.
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Nov 17, 2012 16:15
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Incoherence posted:Despite being largely irrelevant for the last decade or so, they have a special arrangemnet with the BCS and a fancy TV contract with NBC that gives them a lot of exposure even when they're not very good. The list of reasons to hate Notre Dame is extensive and doesn't really end, kind of like a Japanese restaurant; if you don't like what's in front of you right now, there'll be something along in a moment that's more to your taste while the others revolve out of sight for a little. If you're not fussed about the unwarranted overexposure or the obnoxious fans or Lou Holtz making GBS threads up halftime, there's the idiotic Plastic Paddyism, or the institutional cover-up of rape, or the manslaughter of a volunteer assistant.
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Nov 28, 2012 01:21
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It depends whether you're playing on Saturday or Sunday, as well. Some things are different, some things aren't. Let's have a look at Saturday first. The official terminology is "10-second subtraction", and there are dire consequences for anyone who is not Ron Cherry (because Ron Cherry does what he wants, tulip) who announces it as a "runoff". So this is NCAA 3-4-4: quote:With the game clock running and less than one minute It does not matter in either rulebook whether it was offense or defense that committed the foul; if the offended team doesn't want the runoff/subtraction, they're not forced to take it. quote:The fouls that Reminder: In NCAA-land, "encroachment" is the foul committed by the offense when an offensive player lines up in or beyond the neutral zone and doesn't GTFO when he's told to. quote:2. Intentional grounding to stop the clock;  FEEL FREE TO SKIP TO THE NEXT SIREN, THIS IS A DIGRESSIONItem 5 is mildly irritating, because it conflicts with quote:...if a player of either team commits a foul that causes the clock to stop... And says nothing about the intent of what he was trying to do. Here's where this causes a problem - Team A is driving at the end of a half, they run a short pass over the middle, the runner is down short of the line to gain, and then B99 piles on him (which causes the clock to stop while the penalty is enforced). B99's intent is almost certainly not to stop the clock, so Item 5 suggests that this is not eligible for the (Current thinking is that intent doesn't matter and B99's foul can potentially trigger the DIGRESSION ENDSquote:The offended team may accept the yardage penalty and decline the 10-second If the clock isn't running, there's no need to run time off it, because the fouling team didn't save any time by stopping the clock. Likewise, they gain no benefit from a clock stoppage that occurred because of a live-ball penalty. (The way to think of this is that the clock does not stop immediately a hold or an illegal formation occurs, it stops some time later, so no quote:c. After the penalty is administered, if there is a 10-second subtraction, This is all reasonably logical; it doesn't start on the RFP if the quote:e. The 10-second subtraction does not apply when there are offsetting fouls. One more thing; in NCAA, the subtraction applies to players whose helmets come off, but it does not apply to injured players. So that's how it works on Saturday. On Sunday, it works exactly the same as above, except for the times when it doesn't. "Spiking or throwing the ball in the field of play, except after a touchdown" is explicitly a foul and 10-second runoff situation for the NFL, and it's a seperate penalty for "illegally conserving time". In NCAA it would probably come to the same thing by a different route - those actions count as delay of game, and it's still a foul that causes the clock to stop. Play clock - in the NFL, the play clock is set to 40 after an illegally conserving time foul by the defense, and the offense gets to choose whether to start the game clock on the RFP or the snap. Illegal substitution - if a team breaks the substitution rules but the play is not shut down, the NFL has a rule so that it can trigger the 10-second runoff, even though the foul does not cause the clock to stop. Injured players - in the NFL, an injury timeout inside the last two minutes is charged to a team. If you don't have any timeouts remaining, it's a penalty, and it can trigger the 10-second runoff even if no yardage is enforced (there's only five yards if it would have been your fifth timeout of the half), and even if there was more than a minute on the clock when it stopped. Players whose helmets come off do not appear to be specifically covered. Instant replay - in the NFL, if the ruling on the field is overturned from a result that would cause the clock to stop (for instance, Team A player short of the line to gain on fourth down) to a result that should have kept the clock running (Team A player made the line to gain on fourth down), then the opponents can have a 10-second runoff if they want it. Trin Tragula fucked around with this message at 22:28 on Nov 29, 2012 |
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Nov 29, 2012 22:26
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Cate the Great posted:So what defines a defenseless player? Both rulebooks have their own list of defenseless players; they are, of course, slightly different. NFL first, since they invented the concept. quote:Players in a defenseless posture are: These players have a special degree of protection; it is automatically illegal to do two things to them, and I'm going to paraphrase the relevant rules to be sure they're in intelligible English rather than Rulebookese. 1. Hit them in any part of their body while leading with your helmet. Helmet-to-chest and helmet-to-knee is every bit as much a foul when it's against a defenseless player as helmet-to-helmet. 2. Hit them in their head with any part of your body. Forearms, shoulders, whatever; it's all as verboten as helmet-to-helmet. There's a bit of a perception still lingering around that it's only helmet-to-helmet shots that are disallowed against a defenseless player, which just isn't true. Please note that 6 and 7 does not automatically mean that you can't ever touch the QB or the punter during a return. If they move to participate in the play you can block them, of course; but they're still deemed defenseless to stop #99 thinking "oh, he's moving towards the ballcarrier, tee hee, I can take his head off and it'll be legal". It also doesn't mean that those are the only ways you can foul a defenseless player; if you run up to the punt returner and push him in the chest before the ball arrives so he can't catch it, that's still a foul - it's just a foul for kick catch interference, not for illegally contacting a defenseless player. One more thing to note here; if you launch yourself off the ground to add power to your illegal hit on a defenseless player, most people now think this is a flagrant personal foul and you're getting ejected. Let's just take a look at the NCAA's list of defenseless players for comparison purposes, but everything (except the stuff about blindside blocks) that I just said counts on Saturday as well. quote:A defenseless player is one who because his physical position and focus of concentration is especially vulnerable to injury. Examples of defenseless players are: NCAA doesn't bother making it specifically illegal to take the head off the QB or punter on a return, but of course you could still call it under the "any other act of unnecessary roughness" clause. They do have "a player obviously out of the play" on this list, which is frankly unnecessary because if he's obviously out of the play, it's illegal to forcibly contact him in any way, never mind using your helmet or hitting him in the head. Also, pretty much the only thing that the NFL does better than NCAA on player safety is that they've adopted specific rules against blindsiding someone in the head; NCAA keeps whining that it's too hard to make a rule to define a blindside block, but from my perspective I'd be happy with whatever rule appeared, as long as it were possible to use it to make calls when dear old Gladys McAncient looks at a play through her binoculars from the last row of the upper tier of the stand and says "gee whillikers, he sure blindsided that kid good!" Hell, just tell the guys in a secret memo through the coordinators to start calling it under "any other act of unnecessary roughness", just do something about it already. Trin Tragula fucked around with this message at 11:08 on Dec 16, 2012 |
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Dec 16, 2012 11:04
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Bean bag. Marks spots that are not fouls, but we still need to know where they are (usually because they might turn into a penalty enforcement spot at some point). Watch out for them on fumbles as well.
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Dec 17, 2012 06:21
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Confirm. Each spot where they touch it is illegal touching by Team A, and as long as there are no enforced penalties, after the down Team B can elect to have the ball at any of those spots, so we need to know where they are. Generally we don't bag the spot where Team A actually possesses the ball, because there should be someone standing there with nothing better to do. (In practice, when there's multiple available spots the covering official just goes "right, what's the best spot for them?" and then puts the ball there without asking.)
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Dec 17, 2012 14:29
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