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Tshirt Ninja posted:Very nice thread. I've just inherited a pair of nearly flawless diamond studs, about 1.25 carats each - nothing extremely remarkable, except for being a pair of big old rocks. The problem is that when I bring them to a jeweler (I don't have a business relationship with any specific jeweler at this point) to have them re-set, I'm concerned he's going to switch them out and rip me off. I'm not sure how common this practice is, and though I know my diamonds, I would have no proof if he were to do it. Is there any way to guard against this whatsoever? The diamonds have been in my family for ages and I'm terrified of losing them to a lovely jeweler. I can handle this and i'm not a jeweler. Just look around town for a respectable jeweler and use him/her. Ask around, hit up your friends/relatives/co-workers for advice on jewelers. If one or two names keep popping up, safe bet they are reliable and you can go in with confidence.
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Jul 31, 2010 05:49
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You really need to have the stones appraised to record the weights and measurements. Ask the appraiser to take microscope photos and to plot the inclusions on the photograph for you. With a clear map of the inclusions, and some knowledge of the facet pattern, you'll be able to identify your diamond. Many older diamonds that were described as Flawless or Near Flawless will still have features that can be identified easily under magnification. In the old days jewelers only used a 3x or 5x loupe and anything that looked clean at a casual glance was labeled Flawless. You can find a jeweler who will do the inspection while you wait and then mail you a letter of the results. This way there is at least a record of your diamonds, you didn't have to leave then with anyone, and good photographs for identification and matching later.
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Jul 31, 2010 05:58
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So I've got a 14k white gold engagement band that has room for three stones on each side of a center stone. Also a wedding band to go with it, but it's not an issue. I've got another 14k yellow gold ring with about eight small diamonds. Both were passed to me from my family, I want to turn these two rings into one good/cheap ring for my soon-to-be-fiancee. I went to Jared's and they said to remove the stones, and set them plus a new one into the white gold band as well as sizing it'd be about $330. I was thinking of getting a 2k 7mm pink sapphire to go in as the center store (she has a thing for pink, even though her birth stone IS a diamond). The guy said a lab created one is around a 100 or less, an even BETTER lab created one is 400-500, and a natural one would be like two grand. Do these prices sound reasonable?
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Aug 1, 2010 00:37
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Those prices aren't far from the realm of reasonable. My only concern would be to ask for the specifications of the sapphire beforehand. In natural stones I would be suspect about the presence of beryllium treatments to enhance the color - Many places won't clearly disclose gemstone treatments unless you push them. I would tell them that you want a pink sapphire with an AGL certificate, and will accept one that has been heated, but not color modified or fracture filled. Heating is an industry accepted gemstone treatment that deepens the color in most gemstones and is usually performed at the mine or before the gem is cut. It pays to ask the right questions. I was at a gem show recently and pressed an Italian dealer on the origin of his turquoise... in broken English he said "All good, no plastic, natural!" when in reality it had been acid washed and recolored with dye. Many overseas dealers like to blame failed disclosure on language barriers. ;-)
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Aug 1, 2010 02:22
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ShowTime posted:Awesome thread. For some reason I absolutely love jewelry. I don't wear any or own any, but I love looking at the beauty and craftsmanship that goes into well made pieces. Easiest way to tell of a watch is a knockoff is to open the back. Many watch backs can be popped off with a knife, while some will have 6 slots around the outside of the back and require a wrench. Any place that changes watch batteries for $5 should have no problem opening it up for you. While once something is stolen, it's never -not- stolen, you probably have nothing to worry about. The way it works around here is that when you sell jewelry, the store records your name and a description of the items you sold to a buy log for the day, and emails all the daily sheets to the police every week. From there, they sit unread unless someone reports something stolen, or someone is caught breaking into houses/cars/whatnot. Everything is done pretty manually and there aren't many buy logs that are ever read twice after the first week they're written. So what will likely happen in your situation is that someone, perhaps had their house broken into, reported the break in and stolen items to the police. For a week or two the local detectives kept an eye out for any Yurman pieces in the logs, maybe while the victim was doing the footwork and going around to buying stores looking for the items. 2-3 months later it's usually assumed the pieces are ancient history, years later it's somewhat of a fact. The odds of you selling them, in the same locality, having it set off a 3 year old red flag, and having the person accurately and believably identify the pieces is one in a million. As much as I'd rather see the items go back to the owner, they're pretty much untraceable and everyone's probably moved on, so use your own discretion. Tshirt Ninja posted:Very nice thread. I've just inherited a pair of nearly flawless diamond studs, about 1.25 carats each - nothing extremely remarkable, except for being a pair of big old rocks. The problem is that when I bring them to a jeweler (I don't have a business relationship with any specific jeweler at this point) to have them re-set, I'm concerned he's going to switch them out and rip me off. I'm not sure how common this practice is, and though I know my diamonds, I would have no proof if he were to do it. Is there any way to guard against this whatsoever? The diamonds have been in my family for ages and I'm terrified of losing them to a lovely jeweler. I've only personally encountered one instance of a jeweler doing this in about 7 years, and it was a guy I knew and dealt with from time to time. He had a shoddy looking store, worked all alone, and if you had an eye for the thing, had a somewhat visible drug problem. He switched one set of diamond studs for CZs and was called out on it to the police days later. Other than that newsworthy story from 2008, it very rarely happens. As for your safety, there's usually 2 or 3 ways I suggest doing this. One is to know your stones. You don't have to get them GIA graded and photographed if it's a giant hassle, if you can sit down with a jeweler who has a minute to study the stones with you and show you any and all flaws in them so that they become recognizable to you. You say they're flawless, but like Johnny said, sometimes they're not, so it couldn't hurt to get another opinion. Another is to go to a jeweler who regularly sets while-you-watch. It's a bit unnerving to have customers watch you like a hawk while you're setting diamonds, but like a chinese restaurant with an open kitchen, it lets you watch them do what they do so you know there's no funny business going on. Other than that, like Johnny said, get them professionally appraised and photoed, so not only can you be sure it's them after the fact, but it helps if you ever need to report them lost or stolen if decide to insure them. Then find any half decent jeweler and they'll probably know better than to try to switch them. Just for kicks, ask them to hit them with a diamond/CZ/moissanite tester on your way out the door. The Affair posted:So I've got a 14k white gold engagement band that has room for three stones on each side of a center stone. Also a wedding band to go with it, but it's not an issue. Hard to picture what you're explaining, but that seems pretty off to me. First off, setting 3 stones into a each side of your ring, plus the center stones, and a sizing shouldn't be $300. That's something I'd probably try to bundle together for around $60 or so, not counting a new center head if it even needs one. Do like Johnny said if you're going with a Natural Pink Saph, but in my opinion, before you pay $400 for a lab created one, I'd suggest a synthetic one or a pink quartz for almost pocket change. It won't have the durability of a pink sapphire but will look as good as a lab created one, maybe better if they give it a diamond cut instead of the usual deep belly cut that give saphs.
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Aug 2, 2010 00:35
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I have a question. I know you said stay away from mall Jewelers, but does Macy's count in that group? I was looking at their wares last night, and all of their jewelery is 50% off or more right now. It seemed okay, but I dont' really know what I'm looking at.
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Aug 6, 2010 16:27
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Jagershot posted:I have a question. I know you said stay away from mall Jewelers, but does Macy's count in that group? I was looking at their wares last night, and all of their jewelery is 50% off or more right now. It seemed okay, but I dont' really know what I'm looking at. Macy's is an excellent example where the store marks up some item an insane percentage so they can have it on "sale" for 50-75% off. Last time I was there I saw loops of sterling silver for like 80 bucks regular price (on SALE! for 20!) for what I imagine is like 1-2 dollars of metal. I've never not seen Macy's jewelery on sale. If it's not on sale it's because they just lowered their "base" price, like I said, many places don't really have sales, they just play with the numbers to make it seem like you are getting a deal. Now one place I have heard of being decent that's a chain is Costco. Not that you are going to get amazing diamonds there, but you'll be getting the things the mall stores buy (they've even been compared with tiffany quality, which of course isn't saying much) without their markup. Ah found the article : http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/Moms/story?id=1197202 tldr, you can find something that would cost 16k at tiff for 6 k at costco (assuming similar quality).
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Aug 6, 2010 18:20
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Can you recommend me some other budget watch brands (under 200 dollars) that are a bit more unknown in amercia (Not Fossil)? Along the lines of Nixon or Skagen?
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Aug 6, 2010 20:41
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Well, it seems that a lot of people are continuing to ask about watches (and why not?) so I'll chime in with another watch question I had. My wife bought me a Stührling watch for my birthday this year, which promptly broke as soon as I pushed in the pin to start the watch moving after setting the time. She sent it back for a refund, and I wouldn't have minded her buying me another one, except for the fact that my brother also has a Stührling, and his broke after about 7 months. So, two questions: 1. Does Stührling just make really shoddy watches, or was it just weird luck that the only two watches of theirs I've ever seen broke? 2. Given the clear wealth of information available in your brains, and the clear lack of said information in mine, could you make a brief list of watch brands/models we should be considering/staying away from for different price ranges? Obviously tastes and styles differ, but I'm sure there's a couple of examples of watches and watch brands to universally stay away from or strongly consider.
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Aug 6, 2010 21:02
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Fashion watches are not my forte so one of the watch nerds will have to answer this one. To make money on a $200 watch you need to sell a lot of them, and so most of those brands will be found in your mass market stores. Armani Exchange has a line sold through Macy's that is along the same lines as Skagen and Diesel. Swatch is also an option, or some of the Japanese watch brands are still new to a lot of people. If you want to step up to a finer Swiss watch without breaking the $1,000 barrier then I'd probably point you towards Christopher Ward, or more expensive but still a great value: Ball Watch.
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Aug 7, 2010 01:06
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yt2005 posted:1. Does Stührling just make really shoddy watches, or was it just weird luck that the only two watches of theirs I've ever seen broke? I've never heard of this brand, and that in itself makes me wary.
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Aug 7, 2010 01:09
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Something tells me we need a "Ask me about watches" thread.Jagershot posted:I have a question. I know you said stay away from mall Jewelers, but does Macy's count in that group? I was looking at their wares last night, and all of their jewelery is 50% off or more right now. It seemed okay, but I dont' really know what I'm looking at. Macys is good for small things. If you need a pair of Sterling hoops for $20 for a birthday present you can probably get some there. That said, The few times I've dealt with Macy's it's been mostly unnotable and a few horror stories. Most recently a woman spent $6,000 on a ring, 14KW with what looked like maybe a carat in the center and a half carat around the sides. Problem is the center stone was 4 quarter-round stones made to look like a full 1 carat, maybe being 60 points between 4 stones. She walked away thinking she had about a carat of goods in the middle, but it was worth roughly a few hundred dollars and she paid 6k for it. Doddery Meerkat posted:Ah found the article : http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/Moms/story?id=1197202 Actually a pretty good article, up until the buying tips where they tell you to always look for a GIA certed stone, and to buy a diamond tester, which will let you tell that it's a diamond (No sane jeweler will sell you a CZ, and they way they describe the tester sniffing out moissanite is just incorrect. kingfet posted:Can you recommend me some other budget watch brands (under 200 dollars) that are a bit more unknown in amercia (Not Fossil)? Along the lines of Nixon or Skagen? Not many I keep a mental note of, since theses things have been pouring over from the swiss lately and there are probably 12,000 swiss watchmakers. When people are buying a watch for less than $200, I usually suggest to look out for: -Watch bands that aren't built as thick as the watch itself, usually a sign of a cheap make -Watches with chronograph dials painted onto the face. You'd be amazed at how many people don't notice when they but these things. -Watches with half-point diamonds, or blobs of glue and glitter that look like diamonds. Those sort of Bling watches always have the same $.50 movement. yt2005 posted:So, two questions: I've dealt with Stuhrling watches a few times, for batteries and bands and the like, and sold 1 I think. Never had to repair one, so they're probably as well built as any brand. It may have been a fluke but if you've been burned like that you may just stay away.
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Aug 7, 2010 15:11
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So I have a couple of questions, more about the color-changing stones like alexandrite. I absolutely love alexandrite, it's a gorgeous stone and I love the color changing element. I like them when they are a bit grayer, so in sunlight they look like a deep steely blue. The thing is, of course, they're amazingly rare and really drat expensive. I saw that some other stones do the color changing thing (some sapphires, garnets, etc), but not as dramatically. I also saw that there exists some simulants, and I'm interested in those. I don't care about the "oh it's a real stone!" thing, I care more about the look and durability. As long as the stone is durable and looks like an alexandrite, it should be fine. Are there any other reasons not to go with a "fake" stone? I know they will not be an investment or anything, but then again they will be cheaper (right?), which is important to my wallet. So what should I do? Get a fake, get another type of stone (sapphire or garnet), or just forget about it and get another stone I think is pretty? (tanzanite ohhh...) It'd be for an engagement ring and I would probably want it at around a carat or a little more, to get the whole color effect. Great thread btw, thanks!
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Aug 7, 2010 20:38
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yt2005 posted:1. Does Stührling just make really shoddy watches, or was it just weird luck that the only two watches of theirs I've ever seen broke? Yeah Sturhling is crap. It's a cheap Chinese watch company with a fancy European name, a made-up history, and a $2000 MSRP miraculously discounted 90% JUST FOR YOU!!! I think there used to be a "Steiner" too; same idea. There's a watch megathread on the watch&woot subforum, and watchuseek.com is a big watch forum. A general guideline: Be careful of a watch that doesn't say "SWISS MADE" on the dial (unless it's a Japanese of course). And real luxury watches are almost never discounted past 30%. INTJ Mastermind fucked around with this message at 15:10 on Aug 9, 2010 |
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Aug 9, 2010 15:06
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Monkey Lincoln posted:Something tells me we need a "Ask me about watches" thread. Incidentally, there is a watch thread in Watch & Weight, for the general "suggest a watch" kind of topics. http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=2718348&userid=0&perpage=40&pagenumber=1
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Aug 9, 2010 18:05
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quote:Alexandrite - The color changing stone. This cost more than anything, including diamond, by a longshot. It starts at about $16,000 a carat for smaller stones, so don't worry because you'll never see one. I bought one off eBay for $230 USD, it's about the size of ladybug and it colour changes from green to a rosy purple. They don't actually cost that much. The cost is usually involved in the type and extremity of the colour change. A sky blue/bright red alexandrite stone would be worth a lot more than a green/purple stone.
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Aug 12, 2010 06:22
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Cait posted:I bought one off eBay for $230 USD, it's about the size of ladybug and it colour changes from green to a rosy purple. I would suggest you to do a bit more research into it. Not saying you definitely got scammed, but alexandrite with any good color change is normally about 10,000$/carat. You probably got a synthetic. The expensive ones are normally green/red color change, not blue/red, and a stone that changes enough to go from green to rosy purple would be worth a lot. You could cut on costs by going for really low clarity (I'm talking barely see-through) or a low color change, but even then 230 for that size... It's probably not real. Here's a pretty comprehensive guide on buying (real) alexandrites http://www.alexandrite.net/chapters/chapter9/index.html . There are other guides online too, just google for "alexandrite buying guide" and there are tons. These stones really are expensive! For that price, you *might* be able to get something with the kind of color change shown below, but that was selling for 400$ and that was for like .80 carats, which I think would be smaller than a ladybug.  I freakin' love alexandrites, so I'm looking into a nice synthetic one, most likely. Which is why I posted like 4 posts above asking what would be best, synthetic, some other color changing stone, or what? And if anyone knows about makers of really nice stones that'd be great too. I know about Chatham, but they are pretty expensive as far as synthetics go, anyone else do really nice alexandrites out there?
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Aug 12, 2010 15:14
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I hadn't seen something about it in the OP but I'm on the hunt for a men's band that I like. My biggest issue is deciding on a metal. I'm not looking for anything to set stones in. There are so many metals out there that they throw at you and I'm not really sure of their pro's and con's. Platinum Titanium Tungsten White Gold Silver Meteorite (WTF?) I generally like the styles of bands with another metal running through them down the center or off to one side to offset the look of just a solid band. I'm just not really sure what I need to look out for. I'm looking for something I can wear daily for drat near forever and only need to have it polished and not worry about it. At the same time I want something that looks nice and classy.
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Aug 12, 2010 15:58
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Okay, I have a weird question. I have some uranium-doped glass that I think would look pretty awesome in some jewelry. It's a pretty light green color and even glows bright green when exposed to a blacklight.  Anyway, it's only 3% U238 by weight, so it's pretty drat harmless to handle. So, do you think I could convince a jeweler to cut and set it for me?
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Aug 12, 2010 22:44
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They might worry about inhaling the dust  Sounds like a cool piece of jewelry though.
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Aug 12, 2010 23:04
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Cosinetta posted:I would suggest you to do a bit more research into it. Not saying you definitely got scammed, but alexandrite with any good color change is normally about 10,000$/carat. You probably got a synthetic. It has a very nice colour change, so even if it's a synthetic, I still got a great colour changing stone. (Seriously, it looks like the crystal bat jewels from Dark Crystal it its candlelight change)
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Aug 12, 2010 23:35
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Cait posted:It has a very nice colour change, so even if it's a synthetic, I still got a great colour changing stone. Well if you don't mind it being synthetic, good for you! I always thought natural stones were overrated (and the conditions for mining them are not the greatest either). Getting a natural alexandrite would be ridiculous in my opinion, especially with the gorgeous synthetic ones on the market.
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Aug 13, 2010 02:18
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Can you recommend some kind of women's bracelet, necklace or earrings that are very affordable, very nice, and in style? Where would I go about getting it? I have no experience in jewelry and even less money.
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Aug 13, 2010 03:07
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Cosinetta posted:Well if you don't mind it being synthetic, good for you! I always thought natural stones were overrated (and the conditions for mining them are not the greatest either). Getting a natural alexandrite would be ridiculous in my opinion, especially with the gorgeous synthetic ones on the market. I did look at a natural alexandrite from a private collection in Wellington (where I live) and it was being offered at $40,000. Not thanks. I have a synthetic ruby ring the size of my thumbnail that looks amazing (and cost about a tenth of the real deal) - same size and cut as this smoky quartz of mine:  .I'm all for synthetic - except where diamonds are concerned.
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Aug 13, 2010 04:33
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reborn posted:I hadn't seen something about it in the OP but I'm on the hunt for a men's band that I like. My biggest issue is deciding on a metal. I'm not looking for anything to set stones in. There are so many metals out there that they throw at you and I'm not really sure of their pro's and con's. I got my wife a titanium ring to wear while she's with the Army and it's totally awesome, but quite heavy and solid feeling compared to a gold ring. I got it from here, and it arrived very quickly. Did I mention it was cheaper than gold? http://www.titaniumkay.com/ My wedding ring is yellow/white/yellow gold. It's great, but the snag here is that doing manly things causes it to get scratched easily. Gold has that drawback. I take it off when weight lifting because the bars gouge it and give me callouses on my hand. Did I mention that tungsten carbide doesn't scratch under these circumstances? If you're worried that tungsten cannot be cut off if you have an accident, don't fear. They're even easier to get off than gold: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F8dPVPKup80
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Aug 13, 2010 05:45
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reborn posted:My biggest issue is deciding on a metal. Any of those rings will last for a lifetime at absolute minimum. Silver is not the best choice as it reacts to the oils in your skin and will oxidize and degrade over time. Meteorite is very hard to do well. If you're buying a meteorite band that doesn't cost $2k+ then you're probably getting a low grade piece that won't last. The best pieces are milled from a solid meteorite and have no seams. Titanium & Tungsten are in the same family if you're looking for a non-precious band. Both are serviceable if not particularly awe inspiring. Tungsten will be more expensive due to the current patent situation. Last year it was cheap, but the courts put a stop to that recently. White gold and Platinum are traditional jewelry metals and are able to be repaired, polished, engraved, and resized when needed. The main difference between White Au and Pt is a weight on the hand issue, and gold will stay shiny over the long term where platinum's natural color is a deep gray along the lines of a weathered tree.
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Aug 13, 2010 13:29
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I'd be interested to know what kinds of meteorites are used to make stuff. Since most meteorites are mostly made of silicates, I don't know if they'd be easy to work with. The iron-nickel type are harder to come by, but would make a lot more sense from a jewelry perspective.
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Aug 13, 2010 18:11
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Cait posted:I'm all for synthetic - except where diamonds are concerned. Why?
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Aug 13, 2010 18:46
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Giant Isopod posted:Why? Why? Because I'm inconsistent with my snobbery, that's why.
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Aug 13, 2010 20:38
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Giant Isopod posted:Why? Well, one of those stones has a cartel-sponsored campaign against synthetics, but I think you already knew that.
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Aug 14, 2010 03:06
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Monkey Lincoln posted:Manufactured and diamond synthetics probably won't be a huge problem, like Moissanite is now. If they're man made, they'll almost always be labeled as such, and if not most jewelers are always wary of big stones that are too clean and too white. How is Moissanite a problem? From the little bit I've read in the last couple of months just out of curiosity it seems that Moissanite is a fairly viable alternative to Diamond.
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Aug 14, 2010 03:37
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KevinR posted:How is Moissanite a problem? From the little bit I've read in the last couple of months just out of curiosity it seems that Moissanite is a fairly viable alternative to Diamond. Because it is sold by unscrupulous people claiming that it is Diamond as an act of fraud?
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Aug 14, 2010 03:55
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CaptainPsyko posted:Because it is sold by unscrupulous people claiming that it is Diamond as an act of fraud? Most of the places that I have seen call it a diamond simulant not actual diamond. If people are passing it off as actual diamond then yes there is a problem with that. The places I have a problem with are the ones who are trying to sell off CZ type stones as Synthetic Diamonds not as the Diamond Simulant that they actually are.
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Aug 15, 2010 17:58
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Foaming Chicken posted:Well, one of those stones has a cartel-sponsored campaign against synthetics, but I think you already knew that. According to reports from within the industry DeBeers already has the most advanced synthetic diamond machines. If mined diamonds ever become too costly to extract they'll switch gears and start producing synthetics. Currently synthetics are more expensive than natural diamonds. Very few people are out there selling Moissanite as diamond. I've never seen it misrepresented in retail as a diamond, but only sold as a diamond substitute.
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Aug 16, 2010 04:19
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comaerror posted:I'd be interested to know what kinds of meteorites are used to make stuff. Since most meteorites are mostly made of silicates, I don't know if they'd be easy to work with. The iron-nickel type are harder to come by, but would make a lot more sense from a jewelry perspective. You're correct - most meteorite used in jewelry is the iron-nickel type from Gibeon. Very difficult material to cut and shape. Plus, the different Gibeon samples can vary greatly in quality and beauty. Some are gem quality and some are just junk.
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Aug 16, 2010 04:24
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I know most (all) of the watch discussion here has been about high-end stuff, but... I'm in the market for a really unique, artistic watch. Maybe some kind of bizarre one-off thing. I'm not looking for something "luxury" that exudes sophistication and class, because, well, I'm a decidedly un-classy college student, and I don't like being pretentious. I'm not, however, looking for some kind of cheapie plastic gimmick that keeps atrocious time and will break in a month. Do you guys know of anything that's really unusual, innovative, and weird - but is also well-built? Something like this Ora Lattea   I guess having posted these, I tend to like minimalism as opposed to the extravagance on some watches.
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Aug 18, 2010 07:31
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The Wensey posted:I'm in the market for a really unique, artistic watch. Maybe some kind of bizarre one-off thing. If I want something obscure I usually take a look at Tokyoflash, though when I actually wanted something to buy and wear I bought an Accutron Spaceview.
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Aug 19, 2010 00:48
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I'm curious if the jewelry they sell on QVC is any good. Could I have some insight?
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Aug 20, 2010 11:34
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No, it isn't. The TV networks have been caught misleading consumers countless times. Treated gemstones sold as natural, shoddy workmanship, etc. The TV networks are the bottom of the barrel quality segment of the industry. Generally you can buy these kinds of things at low end jewelers for half the price. Little old lonely people love to shop on the TV, and this jewelry is cheap so they can afford to buy it often. Its their entertainment, and some see it as socialization. If asked many would tell you that the salespeople on TV are their friends. A jeweler friend of mine was brought a very large collection of TV jewelry to purchase from an estate. They had all the receipts showing original purchase prices. It was $250,000 spent over several years. My jeweler friend bought the entire lot for $5,000 and personally I think he overpaid. I bought a large gem collection from an estate and most of the gems were from HSN. A very lonely, very bored old man. By estimation he must have spent $50,000 on everything over time. There were one or two wearable pieces in there, but almost all of it was commercial quality junk. The value of the entire collection was only in the $400 range. JohnnyRnR fucked around with this message at 14:44 on Aug 20, 2010 |
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Aug 20, 2010 14:40
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I loaned my brother some cash recently, and he gave me his ex's engagement ring, and a pair of Movados as collateral. The watches look exactly like this, but with a dark blue face, and one without the diamond surround. http://blog.ryaneagle.com/pictures/diamond-movado.jpg His reciepts show that he paid around double what he owes me for the lot, so I figured at the time that it was a decent collateral. You do what you do for family, but this thread has convinced me that I'm basically out a few grand if he can't pay me back. 
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Aug 20, 2010 15:56
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