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Haven't made this thread in some time, so let me introduce myself. My name is Raz, and I've been a jeweler at a small jewelry store outside of Boston for a little over 7 years. During this time my typical tasks have varied between being a bench jeweler/repairman, buying and selling precious metal, diamonds and gemstones, custom design in both metal and wax, watch reconditioning, repair and tuning, then nonsense that comes with running a store, such dealing with people who spent 3 grand on fake jewelry and buying stuff that turns out to be stolen. Short of traveling the country with a sack full of giant diamonds, I've done or dabbled in most of what there is to be done when you call yourself a jeweler. So I guess I'll start with the gist of what I know. Metal This is shiny hard stuff. Most of what fine jewelry is made of is relegated to Silver, Gold and Platinum. Other metals are used time to time buy they're not really part of the norm. Silver is, well, silver in color. It's cheap, running about $17 an ounce on today's trading market. It's a far step up from the cheap base metals used to make costume jewelry, but nothing super expensive is made from it. Meaning that it ends up easy to work with, is cheap enough to make some funky pieces with, and won't turn your skin green like Brass or Copper. Silver jewelry is always made in Sterling silver, which is a term denoting that it's 92.5% Silver, 7.5% copper. That little bit of copper or other metal mixed in goes a long way in making it harder and less brittle, also it helps it hold a shine a bit more. Still, silver tarnishes, turning from a bright white, to a hazy, white, eventually to a dull brown over the course of 6-12 months. Fun fact: If you're wearing silver and it turns black, you sweat has traces of sulfur. Gold is the big daddy of the jewelry industry. It runs about $1,200 as of this post, which is near the highest it's ever been. Compare that to $280 in 2001 or $600 in mid 2007, if you'd invested in gold 10 years ago you'd be doing pretty well right now. In jewelry, gold purity is measured by Karat, which is a number out of 24. I'm not sure why it's based around the number 24, but just divide a gold's karat by 24 and you'll have the percentage of it's purity. Most gold jewelry (Near 80%) is made from 14k(arat) gold, which is 58% pure. The other 42% is base metals, usually brass or copper. You can mix in Zinc, steel, silver, palladium, or a host of other metals to change it's color, giving you White, Pink or Green gold. Still, as long as it's the same karat, or same amount of pure gold in it, it's worth the same amount. 14k White and 14K yellow gold are worth as much as each other. Then there are less common alloys. Irish gold is 9k, usually only used to make Irish wedding bands (Claddaugh rings), 10K is used to make most cheap jewelry, the kind Kays or Zales sells in rings for $50. 18K is a higher purity and cost, usually made into very well made pieces, and is used more often in Europe than America. They like nice things I guess. Portuguese gold is 19k, then as you go east, places like India prefer 21,22 or 24k jewelry. The difference in karats is a bit more than cost. Gold in inherently a soft metal, so the more you alloy it, the lower the karat gets, but the harder the metal is. Then again, as it gets harder, it also gets brittle, or more likely to break cleanly. 10K gold is harder to scratch or bend, but will break if you smack it into something hard enough. 18k will bend and scratch, but is soft enough to bend without too much hassle. High karat gold like 22 and 24 you can often bend by hand, which makes them too soft to be taken seriously for jewelrymaking in the west, though in places like China, they'd rather not buy gold that's almost half copper. It's a culture thing I suppose. Platinum is the serious stuff. At $1700 an ounce it'd better be. It's always super white, is usually alloyed to be 90-95% pure, and is almost twice as dense as gold. What that means is that for any ring in 14k gold, the same ring in Plat will weigh more and be 80% more pure precious metal, meaning it'll cost 2-3 times as much. Meanwhile it's soft, not unlike high karat gold, doesn't hold a great shine when polished, and has a super high melting point, which makes it a bitch to work on. Still when you're putting some massive rock in a ring, this is what the ladies are told they want. It's also used in industrial applications because it doesn't react to acids or volatile chemicals, but that hardly makes a difference to us. Just helps make it more expensive I suppose. Stones With precious gemstones, everything sort of falls into 3 Categories, Diamonds, Precious, and semi-precious stones. Yes Diamonds are precious but they are pushed aside here because they're in their own little world. Diamonds: These are white and small and expensive. People in Africa have a great time digging them out of the ground just for fun, then they're handed out fairly to everyone (None of this sentence is true). They range from tiny stones that I can buy for $0.20 (And stores sell for $30) to normal stones that cost $2,000 to retardedly big ones that you'll never be good enough to look at no matter how successful you become. Now when it comes to Diamonds, there are 4 things to consider; The size, the clarity (How much poo poo is floating around inside it), the color (White is nice, yellow is mellow, brown flush it down), and the cut (Shape, Like circles and squares and triangles and stuff.) What I'll do here is get you familiar with these 4 things, then I I'll explain how to put it all together and you'll be a diamond expert. Yes it's that easy. Carat: Notice how it's spelled with a C instead of Karat, like gold. That's because they're not the same. Still, it's confusing. Let's just try to get that out of the way. A diamonds size is measured by Carat weight. Yes size is measured by weight, because diamonds are all equally dense. Two equally cut diamonds of the same size will always be the same weight. Now, like pennies in a dollar (Or pence in England, pesos in Mexico, Beaver pelts in Canada) A carat is split into 100 points (pts). 50 points is a half carat, 33pts is a third, 2 pts is a 50th, 175pts is a carat and three quarters, that sort of thing. The price of a diamond goes up exponentially as the size goes up. To give you an idea, 2 half carat stones are not equal in value to a 1 carat stone. You'd need 3 or 4 to get the same money. A ring with 1 carat in 1pt stones will be worth a small percentage of a single 1 carat stone. Clarity: This is what's inside the diamond. A good diamond looks like a piece of clear window glass (But you know, shaped like a diamond instead of like a window). It's clear inside with no blemishes. Typically, this isn't what you see. You put one of those tiny magnifiers up to your eye (Called a loupe, pronounced loop) like in the movies and look inside the stone. You'll see little bits inside that look like salt and pepper floating around. These are white and black carbon spots, and are in almost all diamonds. The more you have in the stone, the more they interfere with light going in and coming out, the less brilliant the stone will be, the less it's worth. Cut: This is how the stones cut, but it means two things. First is the shape, if it's a round, square, pear shaped, rectangular, triangle. Once you've called it a specific shape, it pertains to how close to that shapes specifications it is. For example, a square diamond (Typically referred to as "Princess Cut", though it's just a square) could be 3.1mm on the top and bottom side, and 3.3mm on the left and right sides. It won't look uneven, but it will hurt it's value. But as far as shapes go, the main things to consider are if you like it, if it has value now, and if it will hold it's value. Today's round diamonds, referred to as the Modern Brilliant, is regarded as the best way to cut a diamond. The cut maximizes brilliance, doesn't create dark spots in the stone and minimizes waste when cutting. Whenever you cut a diamond, if it's not a round modern brilliant, it's a "fancy cut", which is a way of saying that diamond shapes come in 2 categories, rounds, and everything else. The reason being that 30 years ago, a Marquise cut diamond, whose shape resembles a football, was super popular. They fetched a premium over round stones at retail because they were what every woman wanted. 10 years later, everyone had them, they were out of fashion and the Pear shape (like a teardrop) was in. Nowadays the princess cut is popular, wildly so, but if history is any example there'll be a new fad before long. Pears and marquis diamonds I can almost give away they're so cheap nowadays, whereas I can actually get decent money for a princess cut, especially something like one that's exactly a carat, set in white gold. Expect the popular style to change within the next few years, as these things usually get set off by some pop sensation getting married or cheated on and receiving some ridiculous million dollar stone that everyone suddenly wants to emulate. Not that the retail jewelry industry doesn't help new things catch on as much as it can. Color: If you're colorblind this will not matter to you, otherwise this is way simpler than other factors. Diamond color is graded on a alphabetical scale, only it starts at D for a perfectly white diamond, and trails down the numbers the darker and more yellow it gets. Typically D, E or F grade diamonds are extremely white. G is good, but once you hit H or I, you begin to see a slight tinge of yellow. J and K is even Yellower, and once you hit M and beyond, you're looking at a nasty, almost beige diamond. Then you have specialized colors like Canary diamonds which are blindingly bright yellow, or blue, pink, or whatever else diamonds. You will almost never see these as they are mega rare and cost more than your house. What you will see is the crap runoff of terrible diamond mining. Brown, amber, black, sickly looking stones referred to as "Chocolate", "Cognac", "Champagne" diamonds. These are just nasty diamonds that are set in mass produced rings and named after things that women typically like. It makes me sad to think about how often it works. If I had a nickle for every time some woman tried to sell me a "Chocolate" diamond that she paid out the wazoo for, only to find out it's worth 10% of that in the real world. Colored Stones This includes all the colored stuff you may be familiar with. Rubies and Emeralds and stuff. It basically runs in 3 categories; Precious(Expensive), Semiprecious(less so), and very-semiprecious (cheap). There are literally hundreds of stones to list, but I'll give you a rundown of the most popular. Precious; Sapphire/Ruby - These are the most common colored stones. Sapphire is most commonly blue (Except at the mall where cheap blue sapphires look almost black), but their mineral makeup can stay the same and come in over 50 colors, aside from red. When a sapphire is red, it's a ruby. They're super hard to scratch, and can be worked with pretty easily. Emerald - Almost always green, and way softer than most stones. I typically break one of these every 5th time I try to set one, as they're so soft and hard to work with. Tanzanite - Deep Purple, these gained some popularity and value when the people who're mining them announced that once they mined them form a small area, that'd be it forever. The announcement that they've run out will probably never come until they absolutely stop selling. Alexandrite - The color changing stone. This cost more than anything, including diamond, by a longshot. It starts at about $16,000 a carat for smaller stones, so don't worry because you'll never see one. Black Diamond - Same mineral as Diamond, with a slightly different composition so that instead of being clear, it's such a dark green that it looks black. These can range in all sort of prices since there's no real set market prices, usually stores just make it up as they go along. Semi-Precious; Opal - Creamy white with flecks of blue, green and red. The more color and flare in it, the more valuable it is. Peridot - Light green Garnet - Dark red Topaz - Yellow, purple, rainbow, brown, but most commonly it's a clear light blue. Citrine - A light orangish yellow. Like a pumpkin or a schoolbus. Amethyst - Purple All of these are very common in jewelry, usually without much flaw inside the stone, and market price on any size or quality is usually between $1 and $6 a carat. Cheap stuff until you have alot of it. Very Semi-precious; Onyx - A flat black slab Jade - Green glassy stuff from china. Come in 3 forms, Nephrite, Jadeite and Jade glass. Nephrite is expensive and not very common, Jadeite is what 90% of jade jewelry is made of, and Jade glass is when they grind up jade, mix it with glass and make cheap bracelets with it. It's inexpensive enough that they can make entire walls out of it for banks in Hong Kong. Amber - Dried tree resin, like in Jurassic Park. It's worth more if there's a bug floating in it, also like in Jurassic park. Now, forget all that stuff about diamond quality. Once you find out the size and shape of a colored stone you like, 90% of the value in relation to those is strictly in the color. If you want a nice blue, 1ct round sapphire, don't bother looking into it with a loupe. Eyeball it, and ask yourself if you like the color. That's all there is too it. Don't be talked into paying more for Ceylon or Burmese or Sri Lankan sapphires if you don't genuinely like the look any more. Buying I can't tell you everything you need to know about buying jewelry. There are so many scenarios and variants that we'd be here till the end of time. What I can do right now is give you some tips. My first, last and most important tip when buying jewelry is this; Never, ever buy jewelry in the mall. This is the golden rule of the jewelry industry, the universal understanding that everyone in the world hates mall jewelry stores. They mass produce jewelry pieces by the tens of thousands, utilize terrible, 1pt diamonds in 10k gold, and sell it a a 3-500% premium over what a typical jewelry store would charge. If you walk into a Kays or Zales and see a diamond ring for $1,000, you can probably walk into any honest store and have that ring made to the same exact specifications for arounf $300. Selling gold for 4 times the market rate, tricking people with credit lines and flat out lying about materials has never been past them with the horror stories I've heard. Then there's things like Tiffany & Co, David Yurman and Cartier. They typically sell jewelry made from Silver, gold, or silver with a tiny dab of gold on it for 20 times the cost of materials. Here you're mostly paying for the name. a $200 Tiffany ring in sterling has $5 worth of silver in it, and in any other store would retail for $10, but you're paying $190 for the privilege of a ring that has their name on it. Buy it if you like it, just do some research and know what you want before you get it, because you won't get much when you go to sell it. If you can buy things like these used, you can save a bundle, but there are so many fake tiffany and cartier pieces out there I wouldn't recommend it. After that, there are the department store specials. Coach bracelets, D&G rings, gucci watches, etc. I deal with gold and silver in my regular day, and I don't know who or what Dolce and Gabana are. Not many people do. This doesn't keep people from trying to scrap out their designer watch for it's metal, not understanding that they paid for a name, and a $6 japanese movement in a brass and plated watch won't resell, even if they did pay $800 for it in Macy's. The last pitfall is buying jewelry online. There are some good deals out there, and things like eBay are getting so competitive that there are some awesome deals to be had, but for christ sake stay safe. Don't buy from sites you've never heard of, don't bid on it if it ships from china from someone with 8 feedback, and for the hell of it, let's just say stay off of craigslist. Besides the abundance of inventory, the main reason there's such a supply of jewelry for sale online is that it's so criminally easy to sell people brass and glass disguised as diamond rings that people usually know better than to try buying that way. I usually recommend that if you don't see what you want from a reputable site for a decent price, get a real good idea of what you like, and take it to a local jeweler to have them make it for you. If it's not cheaper, it won't be much more, and you'll have a way, way smaller chance of getting ripped off. Selling Like the commercial with MC Hammer says, selling gold is an awesome way to get quick money. Unlike what it says, if you send it away in the mail, you're an idiot. But say you've got a bracelet, watch, chain, ring, etc that you want to sell. Here are some basic tips. You can always, always get more money selling it privately. Be it diamond studs or a plated watch, if you clean it up and ask around people you know, friends or friends of friends or family, you'll get far beyond what you'd get in any jewelry store, pawn shop, gold party, trade show or mail in special. As an example, say you have a gold mens bracelet, no stones in it. Market value on the gold in it is $100. TV Mailer will give you $20, a pawn shop will give you 50 (On a load, which you can buy back later), a non-pawning jewelry store will give you 60-70, a trade show or gold party might give you 70 or anywhere less. But being that much in gold, it's probably safe to say it retails for 200-250, so if you can sell it to someone you know for $150, everyone would win. Ebay and craigslist can work for selling gold, but Craigslist can be robbery central if you're in a bad area, and eBay is so competitive people will try to buy it for $101, hoping gold goes up $10 and they make a dollar scrapping it. Before you sell gold, you should know what it's worth. Here I can try to explain how you figure that out. All stores that buy gold buy it by weight. Factor their refiners percentage, the market price, the purity of the gold, and their profit margin and you'll find what they pay any chump on the street. It breaks down like this. Take the spot price on gold, it's about $1150 an ounce right now, but you can get a current accurate quote at kitco.com, multiply that by... The purity of the gold. Separate the pieces you have by karat, then multiply the percentage of pure gold (14K is .56, 10k is .39, 18K is .72), scrap gold is always tallied a half karat under it's scientific purity because of dirt or low karat solder in the piece, or casters use 13.5 karat gold to save money. Times their refiners fee. Use 95% (.95), since no serious store sells their gold for less than 95% of the market price. They might tell you they have their own refiner, or there are assaying charges, or currency trade fees, or gold conversion factors, but that's all bullshit. If they say they sell it for 80% so they'll but it at 50, they're lying. Then multiply by the weight in either grams or pennyweights, however they prefer to weigh it... Then divide by how many (Either grams or pennyweights) are in an ounce, 31.1 or 20, respectively. So, working in grams, here's an example. (Spot price on gold) X (Purity of gold) X (Refiners percentage) X (Gram Weight) / (31.1 grams to an ounce) So say you have a 20 gram 14K chain. The formula would be" $1150 X .56 X .95 X 20 / 31.1 = $393 That's every penny the jewelry store or pawn shop would get for it. They want to but it from you for $200, as it sounds like a nice round number, and make a decent profit. However, if you knew this going in, you could say "Hi, this is my chain, 14K, 20 grams. It scraps for about 390, is there any way you can do 350 for it?" They'll probably try to talk you down a bit, but if you can hold tight and collect more than 300, you'd be getting over 75%. More than any other chump on the street is going to get walking in without a clue about what they have. When there are stones involved, it's way more complicated. Here are some rules that seem to stick around my area, but your results may vary. Small diamonds, under 10 points each, are rarely paid for. Some people weigh up the gold and just pay that, some throw in a dollar a point or a few dollars a stone. Bigger diamonds, 10-50 points, you can get an idea of by multiplying their point weight by a tenth of it. 20X2, 45X4.5, that sort of thing will give you a general idea of what to ask for. Factor a bit lower if they're junky stones or higher if they're really nice. Larger than that is serious diamond territory, like $500 and up. Any diamonds that big should come with a written appraisal, of which you can usually shoot for 25% of what's written. Appraisals are inflated for insurance, and usually run double what the stone really costs, which is double what any jewelry would want to pay for it. Colored stones are also tricky, but not too much so. Anything semiprecious rarely fetches any money unless it's a real art piece in a good quality gold. A blue topaz in 10k gold won't bring another dollar. Ruby, Emerald and Sapphire are on a case by case basis since there are good ones and truly awful ones, the same size of either could bring you a hundred dollars or nothing at all. No matter what you have, be it gold or platinum or stones or copper, the golden rule of selling is to shop around. If selling a ring you paid $400, get a price from every store within 10 miles and you'll probably hear prices ranging from $35 to 200. Watches are a bit of a dead item, especially womens watches. Sometimes guys will buy and wear a used watch, women are typically a bit more fussy and want a brand new one. Most stores don't even buy watches unless they're a better name. Movado, rado, tag heuer, rolex, breitling, that sort of thing. And consider from the stores perspective, before they buy a citizen or fossil from you for $50, can they sell it for $100, or would that customer rather spend a bit more and get a brand new one in the box with a warranty? When buying a watch, I generally recommend Bulova, Seiko or Citizen watches. Anything less is sure to have a typical cheap japanese movement, good for a few years but probably won't last, and anything more expensive you're probably paying alot for a name on a watch that does no more than tell time. When buying a better watch, buying one used can save a ton of money though. For instance, mens Movado watches typically are all stainless, have a good swiss movement, and retail anywhere for $1,000 to $1,250. When I buy one, I recondition it till it looks as good as it did they day it was new, and put it out for sale with a box and some movado paperwork for $200-$300. Sometimes 20% of retail, and even then they sit there for years. Depending on whether you're buying or selling, or what taste you have in watches there are hundreds of scenarios, buy typically all you can do is buy a watch you like the look of, or if selling it, do it privately to maximize what you'll get for it. Links http://www.pricescope.com/ - I don't use it much, but it was sent to me a while ago and seems like it's full of some pretty good information about buying diamonds. Probably the best part is you can put in specs for a stone and instantly get a ballpark wholesale price. http://www.kitco.com/market - The current metal market prices in US denomination by ounce. Wow I've got 2 whole links? Oh goodness my brain trailed off and I typed so much I forgot where I was. I suppose at this point you can fire away and I'll see if I can shed light on your questions.
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Jul 26, 2010 00:55
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The question of diamond source always comes up, and it's tricky so I'll see how lightly I can tread. "Transparent and ethical supplier" there aren't any. There are diamond dealers, large and small, who sell diamonds and not once a year give thought to conflict, and there are people who sell "conflict free" diamonds almost exclusively to the public. An indeterminable yet large percentage of diamonds have been set and reset and cut and recut for a hundred years now as they float through 10 ring settings and studs, and once they're cut they're almost 99% untraceable. Determining if a stone is conflict free is no easier if the stone is in a 100 year old setting or one made yesterday. The only way of knowing is if it's certified conflict free, which has no insanely strict certification process, as people sell 100 stones with the same stone's paperwork, or make their own and outright lie. That said, I'm no expert on that scene. Hell, I've had Blood Diamond at the bottom of my netflix queue since it came out. I'd say almost all of my (>1.5CT) diamond needs are met through the door of my store, buying from the public. My large stone needs are met through either 3 dealers in Boston or 2 dealers in NY, and I'm guessing if I asked about conflict I'd be the first person to do so this month. The difference in price and lack of assurance disbands any hype from the public, and dealer-to-dealer wouldn't fetch a premium going either way. Personally I think the best thing to come from the Conflict Free movement is that a handful of mines and mining territories are actually conflict free now. I probably think that cause it's the only factor I've seen measured in any respect. Now, to be quite honest, I know very little about Blue Nile. Their diamond prices don't sound ridiculous, but if this is typical of their markup on settings I'd stay away. Anyone on earth can have that cast or pulled from a catalog for less than half that.
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Jul 26, 2010 04:42
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printf posted:Wow. Is there any way to buy stones wholesale without that massive markup? At small independent jewelers, first do your research, then tell them what you're looking for and what you're willing to spend. Infact, tell them 20% less than you're willing to spend, just incase they had any prices they could push down. Then sit down and see what they have in your quality and price range and go from there. If it's something you can buy off a website for, say 4 grand, and a store tells you they have nothing like that for less than 6, that's a clear sign to try the next place.
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Jul 26, 2010 04:51
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Sounds like you do things differently Johnny, so another set of eyes always helps. Yeah, I deal more in brick and mortar works. People come off the street with what they need, and I'm pretty sure nothing we make will end up in a museum.tirinal posted:Aside from not tarnishing, is there an actual advantage to platinum over silver that justifies the markup (aside from rarity, obviously)? It seems to hold luster worse than silver, from personal experience. Platinum is hard to work on, softer than gold and doesn't hold a really good polish. Silver is easy to work on and takes a good polish, but is also soft and tarnishes every few months or so. Typically when people want a white metal I recommend 14K white, much harder, easy to work on, tarnishes every year or so and polishes up great. I think most of the advantage of platinum is solely in the stigma that it's the most expensive metal that jewelry is made from. The Affair posted:How did you get into this? Did you attend school or some sort of formal training or merely picked it up bit by bit? Residency Evil posted:So what would be the best way to get the most value when shopping for an engagement ring? I have a friend who bought a ring from one of those aforementioned "mall jewelry stores" and paid a hilarious amount. Would it be buying the stone/setting separately? Stone online, setting somewhere else? Buying something that's already put together usually saves a few dollars, but not a ton. When you find a place or two you like, it'll just be a matter of how they operate. All my engagement rings that are on display to the public are put together already, whereas another store I work with always has the rings and stones separated. Find the kind of stone you want, see what local jewelers want for them, see what you can find online and go from there. Lincoln`s Wax posted:It's more gemstones than jewelry but I'll ask, where's a good place to order loose gems from? It's something I think would be fun to collect and I'm not interested in the high-dollar stuff. There's a channel called jewelryTV that sells big kits of them and I'm looking for something like that. A couple of years ago I tried to order one from them and they hosed up the billing in all kinds of special ways so I'm never going to bother with them again. Like larger, semiprecious stones? I don't know where you'd buy them to collect, last time I did anything like that I put together 300 carats of topaz, citrine, peridot and synth class ring stones for a customer and he used them to line his aquarium. If there's a jewelers findings and gems supplier near you try poking around (If it's not for dealers only) Kritzkrieg Kop posted:Very interesting OP!
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Jul 26, 2010 15:04
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Sweet CupnCakes posted:I'm curious...I have a wedding/engagement ring and some other odds and ends jewelry. i went to a couple of pawn shops and they offered me next to nothing for the ring...i have it on craigslist but have already been fielding all sorts of scammers with no real hits...is there another way to make money or am i basically poo poo out of luck on really getting anything for the ring? It's all relative. Maybe I could make you a pretty strong offer, and depending on what you spent it might still be something you'd consider next to nothing. A half carat princess cut is something I'd want to buy from the public for anywhere from 150 to 300 depending on the quality. I'd place an average commercial-quality stone at something I'd pay $250 for and probably want to sell for 450-550 on a good day. The smaller stones never bring much, so 4 on each side and another 10 on the band, all 2.5 point stones, might bring $10-40 depending on the shop. Throw in 2-4 grams of 14k and you're looking at an offer of 300-360 tops anywhere you go, with most pawn shops probably wanting to take it for 180-220. Now, not knowing what you paid, I'd assume it's a safe bet you'd want to get back at least half of what you paid for the ring. Normally what I tell people is to sell it privately, friends, friends of friends, relatives, neighbors, ebay, something like that. The problem with an engagement ring is they have to know the story, because if it was from a bad breakup, nobody is going to want to wear someone elses bad luck. If you can't get rid of it privately for that reason, you might be stuck doing the footwork, asking jewelry stores for 400 and counting their low offer with something closer to 350. If you have to take less, to put it quite frankly, consider it tuition for a lesson learned.
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Jul 26, 2010 21:17
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A lightly used Stainless Datejust is probably the way to go. Depending on the wear, age and style you can probably pick one up for $1,200-1,800. It's a classic model, and if you wanna spend a bit more you can probably find it with a stainlss & 18K strap or an aftermarket gold bezel. Just make sure if you're buying it from a store or dealer, they open it so you can see the movement is stamped with the word "Rolex" and a bit more info. If you find one that's pretty beat up but the strap isn't stretched too far, a jeweler should be able to recondition it for short money, 40-100 usually. Polish the shiny parts, re-frost the frosted parts, clean the band and possibly polish the crystal, all that. Just keep in mind when buying one that they don't usually keep great time and fixing them costs a ton, like with any luxury item that wears over time. Monkey Lincoln fucked around with this message at 23:04 on Jul 26, 2010 |
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Jul 26, 2010 23:00
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That's a bit of what I love about them, considering I don't wear one and never would. A typical rolex repair involves me bringing it to my watch repair guy... Me: This rolex isn't keeping good time. Him: Of course not it's a rolex. Then we share a hearty laugh and have buttsex or whatever. The thing about Rolexes are they're all Rolex made. Some are all swiss parts and labor, some are assembled in south america, but it's all rolex parts. Besides them raising their own prices every year, a big part of why Rolexs have a high value is that any watch you buy has pieces and parts form all over. Movado buys their capacitors and springs from an outside company, their hands from another, some of their gears from another, then engineers and assembles it all themselves. So does Tag Heuer and Rado and Fossil and Bulova and Lucien Picard and Piaget (Everyone else basically). Whether they're assembled of 51% swiss parts in China or actually hand made in Geneva, all watch companies buy their watch parts from other companies, except for Rolex. Hell, 50% of japanese, chinese and some watches labelled Swiss you'll find have "Miyota Watch Co" stamped on the movement. Personally I think Miyota makes the best movements available, typical over under is +/- 15 seconds a month for them or any other decent brand. A good friend of mine loves his, considering the trouble it's given him. I think I've had to open it twice myself to adjust it, and sent it to my watch guy twice for repair. It used to lose an hour a week either way, now it's fast about 10 minutes a month. He knew that when he got it, cause he bought it to wear and gets his time from his cell phone.
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Jul 27, 2010 00:29
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Red_October_7000 posted:What's the deal with so-called "Fool's Gold"? I remember, ages and ages ago (probably around 20 years if not more) being a kid in a jewelry shop of some sort that had a huge (size of a cinder/breeze block) chunk of it on one of those lighted display stands (The kind that has about $20 worth of parts in it yet costs $400 if you want one for your awesome thing). I assumed since it was "Fool's Gold" that it was more-or-less worthless, but the jeweler told me it was worth quite a bit of money. Does it have legitimate uses in the jewelery trade? Typical "Fools Gold" is pyrite, a mineral that in any professional opinion looks absolutely nothing like gold, save for it's yellow, untarnishing color. I suppose a big enough piece would cost something, like the pieces in the glass case at the museum gift shop, but it has no real industrial uses that I've ever known about. I typically see a piece once a year, I tell the customer to give it to a little kid and make their day. As sure I am that funny things have happened to me, there aren't many great stories. I've seen people pay $6,000 for rings at Zales and Macy's that I had exact duplicates of on sale for $300, I've had a guy threaten my life in so many words because I wouldn't buy a box of beanie babies (in 2009), I've had a guy pleading with me to buy his 6 year old Dell laptop hat he swore was worth a grand, only to smash it in the parking lot for fun when I turned it down, and I've had all sorts of scenarios involving kids stealing from their parents in creative ways, all really thinking they wouldn't get caught. If I remember any good war stories I'll jot them down and post them.
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Jul 27, 2010 00:35
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Cluricaun posted:But in the interest of a compelling thread and all, what's the best luxury watch in terms of quality in your opinion? Residency Evil posted:So say I wanted a ring with one diamond in the center flanked by two sapphires. When ring shopping I should mainly focus on the stones, correct? The setting is something that I could pretty much get anywhere? When shop by price should I be looking for someone to sell me the stones for as little as possible (and get them set elsewhere), or the ring for as little as possible? Edit: ^drat you beat me. Also drat you deal in high end stuff. I bet you make the same money selling one piece that I make all december.
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Jul 27, 2010 01:13
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Lucidphoole posted:What buying price would you consider for this? That I'm not sure about, but listen to that other guy. A stainless & 18K submariner or sea-dweller would run you 3000-4000, and resell for not much less than that.
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Jul 27, 2010 05:21
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StopShootingMe posted:What are the most mechanically interesting/well designed watches? I don't know if companies put more into marketing than engineering, but it's possible. Whether you're making a great watch or a terrible one, it doesn't help for much if they're not selling. Not a super rare metal, but Palladium pops it's head up every once in a while. Usually in something like a class ring or a 3 stone setting, nothing exciting. Right now there's some push for a highly marketed metal called X1 among other things, It's white gold alloyed with Zinc and a bunch of other things so that it almost never tarnishes or hazes. For the markup I think people are better off buying a polishing cloth. yt2005 posted:My brother once received, as a gift, an apparently limited-run Movado Museum-series watch, black leather strap, gold bezel, "limited" because at the 12 o'clock, instead of the classic gold dot, there was a diamond there. Not a big diamondy-shaped diamond from what I remember (though it was more than 10 years since I've seen it), more like a circle disc the size of what the gold dot usually is. My parents lost this watch when we moved (he was abroad at the time). The problem I'm imagining is that a Diamond in a setting, as big as the museum face dot, would be either deep enough that it would dig 2-3MM into the face and movement, or sit so high that the hands would smack into it. I'd say either keep an eye out for one on eBay for the rest of time, or get him a good looking Movado to replace it and he'll probably like it as much. (No probably less actually but you tried) skipdogg posted:Where? I'm honestly curious, because if I could grab an authentic SS/18K sub for that price range I'd jump all over it. That's about 3K less than I can find them for online used. I'd snap one up and ship it in to Rolex for a cleaning/polishing and still come out ahead of the game. I'd jump all over a pepsi bezel GMTII as well. No I'm dumb, I'm thinking of a Stainless and not 18K one. I've sold a few recently for 3300-3800 depending on the strap condition. Stew Man Chew posted:What do y'all in the industry think of the "manufactured" market for diamonds around the world? Manufactured and diamond synthetics probably won't be a huge problem, like Moissanite is now. If they're man made, they'll almost always be labeled as such, and if not most jewelers are always wary of big stones that are too clean and too white. Brennanite posted:I have a sterling band I'd like to have engraved. Is that something my local jeweler will do or is that too small of a job? I've never come across a job too small. I probably do a job so small every day I can't be bothered to charge for it. Bring it to a local jeweler, they'll probably send it out and it'll run you $10-20. Jumpsuit posted:My partner and I have been looking at engagement rings lately and I've got my heart set on an aquamarine ring (this one), but are they too soft a stone to be worn every day? I've read a bunch of conflicting information and as much as I love the colour, I don't want something really fragile. They're as soft as emeralds, which is a 7-8 hardness (Whereas Sapphire is 9 and Diamond is 10), it will scratch and chip over a long time, but in that setting the stone sits pretty low under the prongs and it's not channel set, so it won't hit things as often and it'll be easy to reprong or work on. Since that shape stone has a nice wide flat table, it shouldn't be a big deal to have it repolished every decade or so.
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Jul 28, 2010 15:45
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to 
to 
to 
when he first found out, but now is mostly just 
about it. He's getting married soon, and I want to conspire with his fiancée to replace it as his wedding present from his in-laws.
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lazerbeak posted:I work for Tiffany and having said that... when you buy from Tiffany your not paying for a few flecks of gold and a name; you're paying and getting a whole lot more, for example Tiffany only uses the top 4% of ther worlds diamonds, many from our own mines, we lead the way in making sure our stones are not blood diamonds and our Too Precious to Wear campaign ensures that we are environmentally sound. We're gonna have fun with you. Tiffany & Co is not a "Mall Jewler" {sic}, because when the mall stores charge you $300 for a piece of garbage it's st least some karat of gold, and not $3 worth of silver. Saying you get a name and a few flecks of gold would actually be a generous assessment in my eyes. I've seen the stones T&Co sets in jewelry, and it's nothing special. Pretty average commercial quality, certain not D-IF stones. The better stones you have are same high quality stones you could get from any diamond dealer, but because they are from T&Co they're magically twice as expensive for basically no reason. And you "lead the way in making sure our stones are not blood diamonds"? Who else is going to lead the way you do things? And Tiffany doesn't have a problem with people counterfeiting jewelry, they have a problem with their jewelry being ridiculously easy to counterfeit. If they don't want people selling junk good with the T&Co name on them, maybe they should knock it off themselves. If T&Co takes 6 grams of silver, worth roughly $2.50, and casts it into a band and sells it for $225, and I can rubber mold that into a duplicate ring with the same 92.5% silver and 7.5% copper, with the same hand done work and same polished finish, for $40, what exactly is it T&Co is selling? Hell, T&Co sells completely plain bands, the kind every jeweler and catalog carries. They want something like $2500 for the same size, width and weight platinum band I can sell for 900, only with "T&Co" stamped inside (Even made with cheaper Cobalt than iridium like they should). Most of their silver and gold jewelry is nothing different, save for a few nice pieces that T&Co sells, still for 200% of what it'd cost to have them made custom. With all the things T&Co does wrong (aside from your own inability to spell "counterfit jewlery") Tiffany is the Monster Cables of the Jewelry world. 5% substance, 95% marketing. The only difference is if you waste your money on Monster cables you can always use them to hang yourself. druglife posted:any tips on how to not get ripped off, shopping for an engagement ring? Do some footwork looking at rings till you find what you like. Once you've got a good idea visually, do some research online and find out what you should be paying. When you're even slightly educated it'll be 10 times harder for someone to take advantage of you.
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Jul 28, 2010 16:46
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lazerbeak posted:Or of you want to hold a Tiffany piece in your hand just reach into your wallet and pull out a one dollar bill. The Great Seal of the United States... Tiffany. Just in case you're not, I don't talk about "Diamond upgrade policy" because that's not a real thing. Whatever it is Tiffany does, I'm sure I could upgrade my customers diamonds 5 times over if I could collect the money they do for their run of the mill, mass produced jewelry. The people who like their designs are typically the same people willing to pay more for David Yurman designs, not knowing they're just old Bali designs with a dot of gold, again, sold at a ridiculous markup. Ugh, that aside, I'm here to talk about real people jewelry. Other Door posted:I now have the bracelet in my safety deposit box and don't know what to do with it. My questions are: Well you're off to a good start. Chances are it was a bracelet that sold for about 2700 at the time, and when they said it was worth 5K, that was likely an appraisal figure, which usually runs about double the selling price. If there's not a tiny stamp somewhere on it, bring it back to any pawn shop or gold buyer and they can test it for carat, and you can ask them what it weighs in grams or pennyweights, and they should never charge you to appraise it like that.From there either you can figure out what the foll gold scrap is, or we can tell you. Once you know what the gold is worth, you have the option of scrapping it for quick money, or selling it privately to someone you know, which will get you more money if you're patient. As for the price depreciating, it probably won't scrap for what the cash equivalent would have been back in the day, but gold is pretty close to the highest it's been, so you'll get alot more scrapping it now than you you would have, say 2 or 5 or 10 years ago. If they already tested the stones and they're CZ, they're probably not worth trying to take out to save, as they'll probably run $5 to replace down the line. Beyond that, you'd be hard pressed to get someone to pay a premium for the individual parts. The clasp or stone findings run more than gold when you have to buy them, but typically most gold buyers have far more than they need already.
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Jul 28, 2010 20:13
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Giant Isopod posted:If anything, the idea that they will always be labeled as such and considered 2nd class is the huge problem. It would be a huge problem, and my guess is that it will. Aside from their hardness, CZs look like flawless diamonds, Mois even tests like it. Whereever you draw the line at Diamond vs non-diamonds, I think the popular opinion will always put synthetic diamonds south of the line. Maybe people will just use the idea that "Well your options are this diamond, made over 64 million years by mother nature, or this lab created diamons churned out by some scientist named bob." Or maybe I'll be completely wrong, but that's just my speculation. Personally, I wouldn't mind every third factory in china pumping out actual diamonds for jewelry and industrial applications on a constant basis, so who know's what'll actually unfold.
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Jul 29, 2010 01:03
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INTJ Mastermind posted:Don't buy him a loving Movado. Movado uses $10 quartz movements and dresses them up in a silly case, and charges 2000% markup for a watch that can't even tell time. There is literally nothing of worth in a Movado watch. I'm not crazy about Movados, cause as you said they are crazy overpriced and typically constructed of nothing special, but they make some good looking mens watches and I've seen them stand up to some pretty rough abuse. If there's a personal history behind them for him and his brother, I'd say go for it. He can certainly do worse, especially if he can get one preowned for 30-60% of the retail. iv46vi posted:Do you have any tips on finding good pieces in the thrift stores? You mean like spotting real gold in a pile of costume? Doing it from sight is one of those skills you can hone for years and still not be perfect at. I've done it time to time, just going through piles of flea market jewelry looking for gold, and you can find some. Besides gold being stamped for karat or purity, the two things that stand out are the sheen or tarnish of white gold, which is usually different from any white costume, or the weight. Unless costume is gold plated pewter, gold and even silver will have a good heft to it. If you're not sure about something being a diamond, it should be set in the ring, not glued, have a hole drilled behind it if it's deep set, and shouldn't have scratches on the face. Kiss Kiss Bang Bang posted:A couple of questions: Almost any place that buys gold would probably be fine sifting through it for you if they're not too busy at the moment. I do something like that probably twice a week. It's typically not a ton of trouble to go through everything, separate by karat and write down some individual offers on nicer pieces. If you want to make them feel like you're not using them for the service, make up something like how you need it separated and need some individual quotes on the better items to settle the estate, then you'll take it back to the family and probably sell it later in the week or next. Tough to say about the idol, Turquoise is one of those weird one-way markets. Selling it won't get you much, buying it will cost a ton. You might have some luck going to more eclectic jewelry stores and asking around, there's probably at least one person in each town with enough stones and the means to cut more to size that they'd put stones back in it.
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Jul 29, 2010 16:34
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ShowTime posted:Awesome thread. For some reason I absolutely love jewelry. I don't wear any or own any, but I love looking at the beauty and craftsmanship that goes into well made pieces. Easiest way to tell of a watch is a knockoff is to open the back. Many watch backs can be popped off with a knife, while some will have 6 slots around the outside of the back and require a wrench. Any place that changes watch batteries for $5 should have no problem opening it up for you. While once something is stolen, it's never -not- stolen, you probably have nothing to worry about. The way it works around here is that when you sell jewelry, the store records your name and a description of the items you sold to a buy log for the day, and emails all the daily sheets to the police every week. From there, they sit unread unless someone reports something stolen, or someone is caught breaking into houses/cars/whatnot. Everything is done pretty manually and there aren't many buy logs that are ever read twice after the first week they're written. So what will likely happen in your situation is that someone, perhaps had their house broken into, reported the break in and stolen items to the police. For a week or two the local detectives kept an eye out for any Yurman pieces in the logs, maybe while the victim was doing the footwork and going around to buying stores looking for the items. 2-3 months later it's usually assumed the pieces are ancient history, years later it's somewhat of a fact. The odds of you selling them, in the same locality, having it set off a 3 year old red flag, and having the person accurately and believably identify the pieces is one in a million. As much as I'd rather see the items go back to the owner, they're pretty much untraceable and everyone's probably moved on, so use your own discretion. Tshirt Ninja posted:Very nice thread. I've just inherited a pair of nearly flawless diamond studs, about 1.25 carats each - nothing extremely remarkable, except for being a pair of big old rocks. The problem is that when I bring them to a jeweler (I don't have a business relationship with any specific jeweler at this point) to have them re-set, I'm concerned he's going to switch them out and rip me off. I'm not sure how common this practice is, and though I know my diamonds, I would have no proof if he were to do it. Is there any way to guard against this whatsoever? The diamonds have been in my family for ages and I'm terrified of losing them to a lovely jeweler. I've only personally encountered one instance of a jeweler doing this in about 7 years, and it was a guy I knew and dealt with from time to time. He had a shoddy looking store, worked all alone, and if you had an eye for the thing, had a somewhat visible drug problem. He switched one set of diamond studs for CZs and was called out on it to the police days later. Other than that newsworthy story from 2008, it very rarely happens. As for your safety, there's usually 2 or 3 ways I suggest doing this. One is to know your stones. You don't have to get them GIA graded and photographed if it's a giant hassle, if you can sit down with a jeweler who has a minute to study the stones with you and show you any and all flaws in them so that they become recognizable to you. You say they're flawless, but like Johnny said, sometimes they're not, so it couldn't hurt to get another opinion. Another is to go to a jeweler who regularly sets while-you-watch. It's a bit unnerving to have customers watch you like a hawk while you're setting diamonds, but like a chinese restaurant with an open kitchen, it lets you watch them do what they do so you know there's no funny business going on. Other than that, like Johnny said, get them professionally appraised and photoed, so not only can you be sure it's them after the fact, but it helps if you ever need to report them lost or stolen if decide to insure them. Then find any half decent jeweler and they'll probably know better than to try to switch them. Just for kicks, ask them to hit them with a diamond/CZ/moissanite tester on your way out the door. The Affair posted:So I've got a 14k white gold engagement band that has room for three stones on each side of a center stone. Also a wedding band to go with it, but it's not an issue. Hard to picture what you're explaining, but that seems pretty off to me. First off, setting 3 stones into a each side of your ring, plus the center stones, and a sizing shouldn't be $300. That's something I'd probably try to bundle together for around $60 or so, not counting a new center head if it even needs one. Do like Johnny said if you're going with a Natural Pink Saph, but in my opinion, before you pay $400 for a lab created one, I'd suggest a synthetic one or a pink quartz for almost pocket change. It won't have the durability of a pink sapphire but will look as good as a lab created one, maybe better if they give it a diamond cut instead of the usual deep belly cut that give saphs.
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Aug 2, 2010 00:35
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Something tells me we need a "Ask me about watches" thread.Jagershot posted:I have a question. I know you said stay away from mall Jewelers, but does Macy's count in that group? I was looking at their wares last night, and all of their jewelery is 50% off or more right now. It seemed okay, but I dont' really know what I'm looking at. Macys is good for small things. If you need a pair of Sterling hoops for $20 for a birthday present you can probably get some there. That said, The few times I've dealt with Macy's it's been mostly unnotable and a few horror stories. Most recently a woman spent $6,000 on a ring, 14KW with what looked like maybe a carat in the center and a half carat around the sides. Problem is the center stone was 4 quarter-round stones made to look like a full 1 carat, maybe being 60 points between 4 stones. She walked away thinking she had about a carat of goods in the middle, but it was worth roughly a few hundred dollars and she paid 6k for it. Doddery Meerkat posted:Ah found the article : http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/Moms/story?id=1197202 Actually a pretty good article, up until the buying tips where they tell you to always look for a GIA certed stone, and to buy a diamond tester, which will let you tell that it's a diamond (No sane jeweler will sell you a CZ, and they way they describe the tester sniffing out moissanite is just incorrect. kingfet posted:Can you recommend me some other budget watch brands (under 200 dollars) that are a bit more unknown in amercia (Not Fossil)? Along the lines of Nixon or Skagen? Not many I keep a mental note of, since theses things have been pouring over from the swiss lately and there are probably 12,000 swiss watchmakers. When people are buying a watch for less than $200, I usually suggest to look out for: -Watch bands that aren't built as thick as the watch itself, usually a sign of a cheap make -Watches with chronograph dials painted onto the face. You'd be amazed at how many people don't notice when they but these things. -Watches with half-point diamonds, or blobs of glue and glitter that look like diamonds. Those sort of Bling watches always have the same $.50 movement. yt2005 posted:So, two questions: I've dealt with Stuhrling watches a few times, for batteries and bands and the like, and sold 1 I think. Never had to repair one, so they're probably as well built as any brand. It may have been a fluke but if you've been burned like that you may just stay away.
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Aug 7, 2010 15:11
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The Wensey posted:I'm in the market for a really unique, artistic watch. Maybe some kind of bizarre one-off thing. If I want something obscure I usually take a look at Tokyoflash, though when I actually wanted something to buy and wear I bought an Accutron Spaceview.
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Aug 19, 2010 00:48
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The only stone rings I ever see are usually Jade or jade with a gold rim on the inside. They're pretty strong but I would never suggest getting one if you're gonna wear it every day. PS I need to thank the other jewelers in this thread for keeping it on autopilot for me while I wander off.
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Sep 16, 2010 22:58
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McPantserton posted:Any thoughts on my sapphire ring, Johnny? You'll save a bunch. I'm pretty sure I have that same ring, sans saphire, in a box somewhere. I can assure you I'm not charging 1700 for just that sapphire. Maybe $900 if I had the same thing in the window. You won't save any money by making that same ring with CZs. The listing has it at 30 stones and .34 carat total weight, meaning each diamond costs about $1-2 to the jeweler. If they're charging you a huge premium on that, they'll charge you one on CZs. I don't know what it would cost to have a jeweler make an exact replica because of one of two things. One is that's a pretty common design. Either as a ring or a pendant, I've seen it a few times. If someone came in wanting one, I'd find one or set one up that I order from a catalog (As opposed to re-designing and making it), and I'd pass that savings on. Most stores wouldn't, but then again most stores aren't out in the sticks and in desperate need of sales. Two is because if you look around long enough you'll find that ring already inventoried, and everything is cheaper if they don't have to make it to order. Like this is a somewhat similar setting that I can order for probably around $200. A nice sapphire like that shouldn't run more than 500, and the stones maybe 200 set. If I had to make that for a special order, maybe 1050-1500 give or take. Now, if I have that in the store, because I either bought it from a dealer, bought it from the public, or made it out of spare parts, I bet I'd have it priced at 800. Likely that if you ask around, the average price you hear will likely be near that, the best price you hear will be much less.
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Sep 20, 2010 23:35
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Walrusmaster posted:Any idea on where to look? I made this ring a few Christmases ago, with 2 3mm diams on the sides and a larger emerald in the center, we ordered the setting from a catalog. Walk around jewelry stores and find one that has catalogs from casting companies, I could swear I've seen 30 variants on that style in just one book.
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Nov 17, 2010 03:57
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I tell people just that, soapy water and an old toothbrush, dry it with a paper towel. If you want to do one better, get a cheap polishing cloth that will help remove tarnish. The only thing you can really do better than that is take it to a jeweler who'll polish it for you. Anyone can clean a ring, but to actually polish it, as in remove all the haze, scuffs and scratches with a cloth wheel spinning at 4000 RPM will make it look like it just came out of the factory. Probably do that once a year with silver and gold jewelry and steel watches.
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Nov 17, 2010 15:51
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I'm not super good with pearls either, but maybe he'd be better off looking around at nameless cultured pearls? I find that if you're looking for studs anywhere in the $100-800 range, just sticking to saltwater cultured pearls and judging them by sight is the way to go. I've seen $600 9mm mikis sitting next to a set by some unknown company that were easily as nice for a quarter the price.
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Dec 5, 2010 19:27
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Welp, thought this had fallen off the map, turns out I unbookmarked it somehow. Super thanks to Johnny and everyone for keeping it going I guess? I'll try to keep up with this again.
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Apr 27, 2011 23:23
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I HAVENT LOGGED IN FOR LIKE 3 YEARS WHY IS THIS THREAD STILL HERE
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Mar 3, 2015 05:21
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Also here we are 5 years later and gold is 1200 an ounce how funny is that
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Mar 3, 2015 05:32
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