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the great deceiver posted:Yeah the main area of the justice system where polygraphs are used are Law & Order re-runs That is only because when local law enforcement agencies started to use them the Federal Justice system laughed and said no loving way.
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Sep 9, 2015 03:32
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nm posted:Back in the 60s or so when being gay was still basically illegal, gay men would plea to indecent exposure to avoid charges that showed they were gay and registration. Then the legislature legalized gay sex, struck all people having consentual sex off the registry, but made anyone convicted of indecent exposure register. Whooops. It's not ex post facto if it's a non-punitive measure! This actually kind of reminds me of the Chinese system of Rehabilitation Through Labor, where you can be compelled into forced labor without criminal proceedings because it is likewise not a punitive measure.
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Sep 9, 2015 06:48
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My therapist in Virginia hated to admit it, but she thought the polygraph actually was a bit helpful in ensuring her clients were telling her the whole truth (because of the fear factor of a polygraph coming back as registering a lie, not because of any actual ability to detect lies). About a month before my initial polygraph, my therapist and I went over an ~30 document in which I was supposed to record my entire sexual history, from pre-pubescent "playing doctor" type stuff to normal sexual relations to fetishes, pornography usage, and criminal or destructive sexual behavior. My therapist warned me to absolutely wrack my brain, even half-remembered memories should be put down. There were categories too. Not sure if that one incident counts as "public masturbation"? Put it in that category anyway. It was about covering your rear end. In effect, the polygraph administrator went through each section, asked "Is there anything that you're leaving out of this category? Have you told me everything you can think of?" and if you said "yes" when you had an incident in your mind, the polygraph would register your deceit. I think. Remember this is approximately 30 pages (because for your illegal/questionable sexual behaviors you're supposed to write out, in detail, what happened, when/where/with who/what was the relation etc (My therapist implored me not to use proper names, specific places or times. The PO reviews the sexual history workbook and absolutely will refer any identifying information to the authorities for prosecution). It was a thoroughly humiliating experience, though the polygraph taker was very nice and humane about it. This came back to bite me in the rear end in NY, because the NY Board of Examining Sex Offenders and DA's office had access to that worksheet and went through and pulled two incidents from my past I had put in like, the public masturbation and use of prostitutes sections as evidence that I was a higher-risk offender, but which, when I was going through it with my therapist, we were both like "We're not sure this really counts or fits here but best to cover your rear end and put it down just in case". (Again, to be fair to the DA's office, the ADA at my risk assessment hearing clearly wasn't interesting in gunning for me, apologized and told my lawyer he just needed to get the DA's position on record). Even though I was already totally open and honest with my therapist (including times I relapsed a bit in therapy and, for instance, watched one of the gay & lesbian movies on netflix specifically for the sex scenes, yes that's a relapse for me!) I admit that, if nothing else, wracking my brain so thoroughly to detail every sexual experience at least got us to look at stuff I hadn't considered particularly noteworthy before.
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Sep 9, 2015 14:54
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Al Kiyan posted:Even though I was already totally open and honest with my therapist (including times I relapsed a bit in therapy and, for instance, watched one of the gay & lesbian movies on netflix specifically for the sex scenes, yes that's a relapse for me!) If you don't mind me asking, why is that considered a relapse? By the way, thank you for your posts. They've been very interesting and I'm happy that it sounds like your life is improving. While I've never had any issues with the law, I suffer from opiate addiction (though the specific thing I take is actually legal) and can sympathize with people suffering from any sort of addiction/compulsion.
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Sep 9, 2015 18:57
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Ytlaya posted:If you don't mind me asking, why is that considered a relapse? Generally, sex offenders are banned from possessing (adult) porn when on probation and parole. I'm not sure if there is a real reason for it other that "ewww, sex offenders" but I'm also not a shrink.
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Sep 9, 2015 19:01
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I actually wasn't thinking of the fact that it violates terms of probation (side story: I got my probation terms changed to allow me access to a laptop, which came with the stipulation of having a content-blocking filter installed. I was totally okay with this, I recognized the need, at least at that early part in my recovery. I also had an "accountability" program installed that sent reports to my PO about the sites I had visited, with any questionable/sexual material noted. Maybe it was reckless or stupid considering, but I wanted to check up on the somethingawful.com forums, as I've always liked the debates and discourses here. Photoshop/Atma/Everdraed threads on GBS of course are also totally worth a visit. My next visit with the PO he says something along the lines of "You don't need to be visiting sites like that, it's not wholesome or productive and you shouldn't be using the computer for entertainment." So that was the end of that. Luckily my PO in NY has no such interest in babysitting my internet usage; a huge part of therapy is to get me to a point where I can monitor my usage myself, along with the content blocker I still have and am comfortable keeping installed for the foreseeable future. That's good enough for her.) Anyways, its a relapse for me from a therapeutic, cognitive-behavioral cycle angle. Very briefly, the more casual sex/pornographic material I expose myself to, the more 'primed' my brain is to respond impulsively to sexual stimuli. It's like a ratcheting effect; my mind gets increasingly, but subconsciously attuned and sensitized to stimuli, and it takes a longer time and greater amount of effort to ratchet back down than to get even more primed. As a corollary I increasingly dehumanize the men I have sex with; they're just a piece of meat there to gratify my sexual urge. When I was deep in my casual sex habit, I rarely knew more than your first name, if that. This obviously plays a key role in being able to have sex with underage boys. In essence, I didn't see them as boys, just another piece of meat, albeit one that grants a heightened sense of eroticism due to the "taboo" nature of the encounter. I also recognize that I think I'm just naturally attracted to slimmer, smoother, more androgynous body types. But I could go from that to having sex with someone my age or older the next day. The reason I have to take relatively mild stuff like watching netflix movies for their sex scenes seriously is that the deeper into this cycle of increasingly primed sexual urges and impulses I get, the harder it is both to be aware of how deep in I am and to break out of the cycle. At some point, a line (usually one of personal danger, i.e. unsafe sex, or illicitness) is crossed and for me, at least, I have a 'gently caress it, i'm already screwed' moment which makes things even more difficult to ratchet back. So it's crucial to find, recognize, and correct whatever impulsive/compulsive sexual behavior I have at the earliest possible stage. (USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST)
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Sep 10, 2015 15:56
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ToxicSlurpee posted:Let's also not forget that "public urination" is also a sex offense in some places. So if you were homeless and got caught pissing in an alley California will treat you like a pedophile forever. In Colorado, the first few convictions for indecent exposure/public indecency get you on the sex offender list for a few years (because the first few convictions are misdemeanors). I think it is the 4th or 5th conviction that gets bumped up to felony status and that gets you permanent residence on the sex offender list.
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Sep 11, 2015 07:50
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Huttan posted:In Colorado, the first few convictions for indecent exposure/public indecency get you on the sex offender list for a few years (because the first few convictions are misdemeanors). I think it is the 4th or 5th conviction that gets bumped up to felony status and that gets you permanent residence on the sex offender list. But isn't even a "temporary" listing pretty permanent because of those organizations that copy it for "public awareness" and never take anybody off?
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Sep 13, 2015 16:48
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Lemniscate Blue posted:But isn't even a "temporary" listing pretty permanent because of those organizations that copy it for "public awareness" and never take anybody off? If you never move maybe, but if you're off the list you probably don't have to tell anyone when you change address.
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Sep 13, 2015 21:01
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ToxicSlurpee posted:Let's also not forget that "public urination" is also a sex offense in some places. So if you were homeless and got caught pissing in an alley California will treat you like a pedophile forever. What's always bothered me is that giving out sex offenses for minor stupid stuff like public urination gives actual bonafide sex offenders an "out" if word gets out that they are sex offenders. I knew two guys in college who were registered sex offenders and would tell people that, but would say that they were just caught peeing in an alley or something. I can't recall what their actual offenses were, but they were both much worse than that. Not saying it's right to force people to register or not, but the lie always bothered me. late edit: italics on edited words I addded wilderthanmild fucked around with this message at 13:52 on Sep 14, 2015 |
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Sep 14, 2015 01:26
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wilderthanmild posted:What's always bothered me is that giving out sex offenses for minor stupid stuff like public urination gives actual bonafide sex offenders an "out" if word gets out that they are sex offenders. I knew two guys in college who were registered sex offenders and would tell people that, but that they were just caught peeing in an alley or something. I can't recall what their actual offenses were, but they were both much worse than that. Not saying it's right to force people to register or not, but the lie always bothered me. Same thing with having 100,000+ people on the no-fly list / terrorism watch list. Makes the list completely worthless.
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Sep 14, 2015 05:38
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It's not worthless. It is excellent for punishing dissidents.
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Sep 15, 2015 22:38
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Prisoners working in a sales call center in AZ are paid $0.50/hr but have to pay the prison $400/month room and board, even though the state already pays $30,000+ to the prison per prisoner. What an awful country. Does anyone think the popularity of "Orange is the new Black" may have had an impact that made the current bipartisan push (in the US) to draw down the prison population possible?
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Nov 2, 2015 00:51
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reading posted:Prisoners working in a sales call center in AZ are paid $0.50/hr but have to pay the prison $400/month room and board, even though the state already pays $30,000+ to the prison per prisoner. What an awful country. Wait, what? That's $80 a month, so are the prisoners just not paid (in which case why even bother pretending to give them a wage?), or do they rack up a debt of $320 a month? And would that debt carry over outside of prison, effectively loving over anyone released from prison?
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Nov 2, 2015 01:29
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AreWeDrunkYet posted:Wait, what? That's $80 a month, so are the prisoners just not paid (in which case why even bother pretending to give them a wage?), or do they rack up a debt of $320 a month? And would that debt carry over outside of prison, effectively loving over anyone released from prison? I see you're starting to catch on. Good luck even applying for a job once you're out to pay that back. Even McDonalds has a box that says "Have you been convicted of a felony?" Check the box and never get a job or lie and hope you're never caught. If you REALLY want to burst a blood vessel look into how much prisoners are charged for phone calls. Ya know, those people who spend years upon years isolated from contact with the outside? Well that means there's a demand so the glorious free market has decided that just offering phones to use will not do. No sir that poo poo has to be subcontracted out by the (for profit) prison to a third party that totally pinky swears they won't ever possibly price gouge the ever living gently caress out of people who have no choice in service providers, high desire to use it and are social punching bags to poo poo on and not care about. Fortunately the invisible hand of the free market comes to the rescue with such fantastic services as allowing the family to put money into an account for that inmate to use to call them. Note I did not say "allows them to pay for the phone calls" and said it goes into an account. Let your imagination run wild with every dirty, bullshit trick accounting firms use on credit and debit cards. Go on, you can do it.
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Nov 2, 2015 05:06
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...Whatever happened to Hiding From Goro, anyway?
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Nov 2, 2015 05:16
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SumYungGui posted:If you REALLY want to burst a blood vessel look into how much prisoners are charged for phone calls. Ya know, those people who spend years upon years isolated from contact with the outside? Well that means there's a demand so the glorious free market has decided that just offering phones to use will not do. No sir that poo poo has to be subcontracted out by the (for profit) prison to a third party that totally pinky swears they won't ever possibly price gouge the ever living gently caress out of people who have no choice in service providers, high desire to use it and are social punching bags to poo poo on and not care about. Fortunately the invisible hand of the free market comes to the rescue with such fantastic services as allowing the family to put money into an account for that inmate to use to call them. Note I did not say "allows them to pay for the phone calls" and said it goes into an account. Let your imagination run wild with every dirty, bullshit trick accounting firms use on credit and debit cards. Go on, you can do it. Hey, that's me! Our competitors are all owned by venture capitalists while we're privately owned so we actually try to show off that we're not charging nearly as many fees as our competitors, it doesn't matter to some sheriffs. Also, no one ever promised not to price gouge, in fact some sheriffs demand it since their other funding sources (tax revenues) are down. I'm glad the FCC is cracking down, it's certainly needed.
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Nov 2, 2015 05:26
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SumYungGui posted:If you REALLY want to burst a blood vessel look into how much prisoners are charged for phone calls. Ya know, those people who spend years upon years isolated from contact with the outside? Well that means there's a demand so the glorious free market has decided that just offering phones to use will not do. No sir that poo poo has to be subcontracted out by the (for profit) prison to a third party that totally pinky swears they won't ever possibly price gouge the ever living gently caress out of people who have no choice in service providers, high desire to use it and are social punching bags to poo poo on and not care about. Fortunately the invisible hand of the free market comes to the rescue with such fantastic services as allowing the family to put money into an account for that inmate to use to call them. Note I did not say "allows them to pay for the phone calls" and said it goes into an account. Let your imagination run wild with every dirty, bullshit trick accounting firms use on credit and debit cards. Go on, you can do it. After I was released from prison and in a halfway house I made ten collect calls to my family "long distance" when in reality I was ~80 miles away and I racked up a phone bill of close to $300.
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Nov 2, 2015 07:38
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the great deceiver posted:Yeah the main area of the justice system where polygraphs are used are Law & Order re-runs Law and order disproved the use of polygraphs, there's even an episode where the plotpoint is that that the defense is leaking private polygraph results to discredit the prosecution's case against the accused.
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Nov 2, 2015 08:25
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This article is hosed up: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime/nm-judge-man-raped-everyday-article-1.2417141 The judge told this kid that he was going to be somebody's bitch in prison, and raped every day, before "letting him off" with 5 years probation. What bothers me is that the judge basically admitted that his options were either probation or being sent to a rape concentration camp. True or not, it's extremely unprofessional, not to mention cruel and unusual. I'm glad he got probation, but Jesus Christ. You guys have any thoughts on this?
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Nov 2, 2015 20:28
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dethkon posted:This article is hosed up: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime/nm-judge-man-raped-everyday-article-1.2417141 What I'm getting from the article is that he didn't have a choice in the matter at all. This conversation occurred during sentencing, so it would have been after he had either been convicted or pled out. (Or were you referring to the judge's options? The judge is a woman in this case.) Honestly if anything I think we need more judges straight-up saying on the record that sentencing someone to prison will probably lead to that person being physically and sexually assaulted by other inmates, and sometimes even by guards. The first step in halting the grotesque violation of human rights in the prison system is admitting that it happens.
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Nov 2, 2015 22:30
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dethkon posted:This article is hosed up: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime/nm-judge-man-raped-everyday-article-1.2417141 quote:"The issue with residential burglary, again, it's almost like a rape, because it is such an invasion and such an intrusion on somebody's life and their property," the judge said. Oh for sure, your honor.
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Nov 2, 2015 22:38
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Emron posted:Oh for sure, your honor. Let's not get into that  but I thought burglary meant they invaded a home with people in it?
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Nov 2, 2015 23:58
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It does not appear that residential burglary in NM requires anyone to be home, only that the building has been used as a residence in the past.
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Nov 3, 2015 00:26
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Obama's whitehouse is releasing 6000 prisoners over 3 days who have nonviolent drug convictions. http://www.democracynow.org/2015/11/4/with_historic_release_of_drug_offenders He's also "Banning the Box" to prevent employment forms for federal jobs from asking if someone has committed a felony. Unfortunately the example a poster above made of trying to work at McD's will still be legal.
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Nov 5, 2015 07:48
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AreWeDrunkYet posted:Wait, what? That's $80 a month, so are the prisoners just not paid (in which case why even bother pretending to give them a wage?), or do they rack up a debt of $320 a month? And would that debt carry over outside of prison, effectively loving over anyone released from prison? In Oregon a prisoner can get paid as little as $23 a month for dangerous full-time work. That helps put in to perspective the cost of things like letters (paper + envelope + stamp), phone calls which could cost as much as $4/min before the FCC started cracking down, and hygeine products.
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Nov 5, 2015 07:50
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reading posted:Obama's whitehouse is releasing 6000 prisoners over 3 days who have nonviolent drug convictions. The solution is to nationalize McDonald's. It's time.
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Nov 5, 2015 17:28
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The People's Burgers
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Nov 5, 2015 17:31
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reading posted:In Oregon a prisoner can get paid as little as $23 a month for dangerous full-time work. That's much better than the Feds. I made approximately $19 a month getting up at 3:30am every day to work in an industrial bakery. They were too cheap to even give us non-slip boots too. I was in a couple different private prisons (CCA, MTC) and it's an amazing racket they've got going. Get the prisoners to do 99% of the labor on the prison grounds, pay them slave wages and then watch as all that money comes right back into the company store (commissary) to buy loving toothpaste, tuna fish, protein bars whatever.
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Nov 6, 2015 16:01
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the great deceiver posted:That's much better than the Feds. I made approximately $19 a month getting up at 3:30am every day to work in an industrial bakery. They were too cheap to even give us non-slip boots too. I assume the reason prisoners don't just refuse to participate in their own oppression and not work is because they need the money, paltry as it is?
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Nov 8, 2015 21:48
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reading posted:I assume the reason prisoners don't just refuse to participate in their own oppression and not work is because they need the money, paltry as it is? compulsory labor is legal in prisons. so its that or more punishment. the act that bans slavery has a nice little caveat for prison labor.
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Nov 8, 2015 21:51
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reading posted:I assume the reason prisoners don't just refuse to participate in their own oppression and not work is because they need the money, paltry as it is? Working is often a condition for getting good time credits.
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Nov 8, 2015 22:36
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dethkon posted:This article is hosed up: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime/nm-judge-man-raped-everyday-article-1.2417141 Judges are loving worse than prosecutors, even. If this woman believed sincerely that anyone she sentenced to prison would be raped or assaulted she has every moral obligation to stop being a rather large cog in the carceral machine and find a new line of work. You don't get to both be a sanctimonious idiot and draw a paycheck sending human beings to a loving rape dungeon.
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Nov 9, 2015 01:10
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Woozy posted:Judges are loving worse than prosecutors, even. If this woman believed sincerely that anyone she sentenced to prison would be raped or assaulted she has every moral obligation to stop being a rather large cog in the carceral machine and find a new line of work. You don't get to both be a sanctimonious idiot and draw a paycheck sending human beings to a loving rape dungeon. If she is reluctant to send people to prison because of the real possibility of them being raped, she is actually in perfect spot to reduce that outcome. Judges have wide latitude in many sentencing decisions. Additionally they can dismiss prosecutor cases as without merit if the prosecutors or the police are being "overzealous."
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Nov 9, 2015 01:22
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Powercrazy posted:If she is reluctant to send people to prison because of the real possibility of them being raped, she is actually in perfect spot to reduce that outcome. Judges have wide latitude in many sentencing decisions. Additionally they can dismiss prosecutor cases as without merit if the prosecutors or the police are being "overzealous." lol yea okay
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Nov 9, 2015 01:32
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Woozy posted:lol yea okay They can, and in that specific case, she did. Probation vs Prison so....
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Nov 9, 2015 01:59
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Discretion in sentencing, yes. But, quote:dismiss prosecutor cases as without merit if the prosecutors or the police are being "overzealous."
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Nov 9, 2015 02:14
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joat mon posted:Discretion in sentencing, yes. http://www.nolo.com/dictionary/dismissal-with-prejudice-term.html http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/dismissal e: I mean there has to be some justification as a judge can't stonewall a law they disagree with, but they DO act as an important safeguard against police misconduct, that is sadly under utilized. ate shit on live tv fucked around with this message at 02:54 on Nov 9, 2015 |
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Nov 9, 2015 02:51
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reading posted:I assume the reason prisoners don't just refuse to participate in their own oppression and not work is because they need the money, paltry as it is? Yes thats one of the reasons but more than that it is that refusal to work is a 200 series offense that would send you to the SHU. Also, believe it or not, most inmates wanted a job because it gives you something to do and some sort of purpose. Another interesting fact is that any discussion whatsoever of a strike or unionizing was an even higher 200 series offense that would lose you more good time and keep you in the SHU longer. They took that one really serious.
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Nov 9, 2015 12:19
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dethkon posted:You guys have any thoughts on this? There was a fairly infamous incident that went before the Supreme Court of Canada, USA v Cobb, where American prosecutors were trying to get Canadians extradited to stand trial in the USA for mail fraud. One of the prosecutors went on Canadian TV and admitted to threatening Canadian citizens with prison rape if they didn't agree to immediate extradition. As in, waive your rights and come to the USA immediately, because if you make us actually go through the process of legally extraditing you, we're going to convict you and send you to a terrible prison where you'll be raped. The SCC determined that you have a right to contest extradition, because duh, and that making insane and extravagant threats was an abuse of process, so the guys weren't extradited. There have also been some cases, I'm mostly thinking of Ireland here because they've done it several times, where other countries have refused to extradite to the USA on the simple basis that the US prison system is so cruel and inhumane that it would violate their own constitutions to give people up to be imprisoned in it.
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Nov 9, 2015 15:03
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