|
HELLO THERE posted:Holy loving poo poo! Everybody already knows. You ever hear a white boomer say "they ought to do something about those people" or words to that effect? Well, "they" did something, and the Machine is what they did.
|
#
¿
Jul 27, 2010 01:42
|
|
|
|
| # ¿ May 14, 2024 14:01 |
|
|
I've re-hosted most of my relevant links from the last thread here on this site that I share with LF superstar dm.
|
|
#
¿
Jul 27, 2010 01:43
|
|
|
The Fair Sentencing Act passed today, lowering the 100:1 sentence ratio for crack vs powder cocaine to 18:1, and removes mandatory minimum sentences for simple possession of small amounts of crack. So now black folk will only be punished 18 times more harshly than white folk for the same chemical, instead of 100 times more harshly- although there won't be any retroactive sentence reductions.quote:The Fair Sentencing Act of 2010 would raise the minimum quantity of crack cocaine that triggers a 5-year mandatory minimum from 5 grams to 28 grams, and from 50 grams to 280 grams to trigger a 10-year mandatory minimum sentence. The amount of powder cocaine required to trigger the 5 and 10-year mandatory minimums remains the same, at 500 grams and 5 kilograms respectively. The legislation also eliminates the mandatory minimum for simple possession of crack cocaine. The quantity disparity between crack and powder cocaine would move from 100 to 1 to 18 to 1.
|
|
#
¿
Jul 28, 2010 20:37
|
|
|
taremva posted:Reading this thread, and the previous ones who have been posted, really makes me wonder why the gently caress Americans aren't rioting all over the place. The thing that happens, is that there will always be some inmates you can point to who did something really bad. One dude wasn't even old enough to buy beer when he shotgunned a ladys head apart because he "wanted to see what that bitch's brain looked like." There's people in prison who did things you wouldn't even believe; murder over ten bucks (or no reason at all), cannibalism, killing little babies, taking them apart... all sorts of poo poo. So prison reform becomes a tough sell; because every one you can point to in on a drug charge or whatever, someone on the other side will point to a guy who killed 24 people like this guy and say he's gotta pay, they all gotta pay. And that's also why a lot of people get disillusioned with prison activism after a while, because you're casting your lot with some extremely violent and/or insane people. You see these guys, and you wonder what went wrong, how did they get this far before someone noticed. There were several guys in prison with me who were mentally ill, a couple complete psychotics and more than a few on the autism spectrum- one so far along the spectrum he was barely functional. We always wondered how that guy managed to even join the Navy in the first place, much less stay in long enough to catch a court martial? And this was the peacetime military, so it's not like they were hurting for people.
|
|
#
¿
Jul 29, 2010 00:14
|
|
|
JudicialRestraints posted:You guys should look at prison health care as well. Ok. JudicialRestraints posted:asthma attack Pregnant woman in Arpaio's jail beaten in the stomach, causing miscarriage + nearly bleeding to death; denied medical care for 3 weeks (despite doctor orders). They made her wait 3 weeks to have the dead fetus taken out. Pregnant woman in Arpaio's jail denied medical care for 4 hours after complications develop, resulting in death of her baby- and she's not the only one. Oh and the jail staff tried to stop her from getting to see or hold her baby afterwards. Diabetic denied insulin until she died- because she might have been "faking it." Pregnant women sent to private prisons where their newborns are subsequently denied medical treatment after suffering life-threating illness, resulting in permanent injury. Then prison argues they didn't have an obligation to provide treatment. Crohn's disease patient denied care until he nearly died, then gets major surgery without his knowledge or explanation. The $4/day medication to prevent this would have been too expensive. Pregnant women denied medical care, left in pools of their own filth for days, then beaten by guards until the braces are torn off their teeth. Forcible injections of improperly prescribed medications like Haldol & Zyprexa, which is actually a criminal offense. Denied medical care even when inmates have holes in their skulls, or when paraplegics develop bedsores go untreated for a year Penis amputation (along with 6 pounds of flesh removed form groin area) in Washington as a result of failure to treat gangrene Female inmate impregnated by rapist guard, then kicked in the stomach by other guards to cause miscarriage
|
|
#
¿
Aug 1, 2010 20:37
|
|
|
JudicialRestraints posted:I defend prison guards from inmate lawsuits as the main component of my job. I can't say all that much about pending cases due to attorney client privilege, but I can give this thread my impressions. So when these paperwork mix-ups occur do you guys at least count it toward the PLRA exhaustion requirement?
|
|
#
¿
Aug 1, 2010 20:55
|
|
|
blackguy32 posted:How did we go from a thread on Prisons to a thread about a TV show about cops? Don't forget all those inmates increase the clout of local politicians, since they get counted as (nonvoting) constituents via the scheme known as prison gerrymandering.
|
|
#
¿
Aug 3, 2010 19:54
|
|
|
The thing to ask yourself, if you're a Libertarian or a Conservative, or a proponent of the "deterrence" school of thought, or whatever school of thought that brings you to the "prison should be as unappealing as possible" type of deal- is what kind of man do you want to come out of prison. Most people who go into prison eventually come out, you know, And mostly we stay in our America. You know how rich guys with mansions go on TV and talk about "2 Americas," well they're right. And mostly we just stay in our America, and we never go into your America. But sometimes it happens, and I know you all try and prevent it, but it does happen. We do go to your America sometimes. So when it happens what kind of man do you want in there- in your America- with your flat screen and your nice car; your nice lawn, your nice computer; and your lily-white wife? For deterrence well, look at states with death penalty, and what the offense rates are up in there. If you won't do it for empathy, if you won't do it out of love for the man who killed, and destroyed, and ruined, just because of the fact that he is still a man; and just because you are human and love- really love- all humans, I can understand that. I have lost people to unspeakable violence ( and more often to cops/Joe Arpaio than not), and I absolutely understand the rage, the sadness, the pain and the hurt and the helplessness and the suffering and the futility- and the hate. I spent years wallowing in the hate, letting it fill me, wash over me, consume me. I spent years drowning in it, drowning in the hate. I let it gently caress me- gently caress me in every hole- and spill its seed on my face while I cried and begged and licked up every last drop, my friends murdered, their killer bragging on TV. I let it whisper to me, I let it seduce me, I gave my entire soul over to it, over to the hate; and I became everything I spent a lifetime fighting against- three times over- and I thought I loved it; until I faced that hate, and really learned how to love. So yeah, I Get It, I Get how you feel when you think about those criminals, those people. When they scare you, or steal your stuff, it's me that Gets It; it's me that loves you and prays for you, even as I pray for the thief. I hope that nobody ever really Gets It like I do. Anyway, who gives a poo poo about a burned-out ex-con. If that's not why you think about prison conditions, then like I said, think about it from a position of self-interest: what kind of man do I want coming out, and possibly coming into my America.
|
|
#
¿
Aug 4, 2010 07:57
|
|
|
HidingFromGoro posted:Don't forget all those inmates increase the clout of local politicians, since they get counted as (nonvoting) constituents via the scheme known as prison gerrymandering. Prison gerrymandering is being abolished in New York as of this week, just waiting for the governor to sign it. 3 states down, 47 to go!
|
|
#
¿
Aug 4, 2010 19:38
|
|
|
JudicialRestraints posted:Anyone who simultaneously believes in 'deterrence' and endorses our current system which largely avoids rehabilitation and instead institutionalizes criminality in prison is either a hypocrite or some sort of racist. Believe it or not, Arizona of all places actually has a simple and streamlined process for getting your civil rights back after a felony conviction. Your rights to vote, hold public office, and serve as a juror are automatically restored after a set time (first time only), and you can even have the right to own a gun* back by simply mailing in this form (pdf). The form's also used to restore the other rights if you've got more than one conviction, or if you were convicted in federal court/out of state. *Does not apply to certain offenses With the gun thing, it's a little different when you were convicted in a federal or military court (like me). AZ might give you the right back, but for federal/military charges, the ATF has to approve the restoration. But since 69 people re-offended (out of 22,000) after getting back their guns, a law was passed that eliminated all funding for restoration requests. So you application doesn't get denied (you can appeal a denial), it just doesn't get processed at all, and in a unanimous decision the Supreme Court said that the policy "precludes any & all judicial review." Due to some pretty unusual particulars of my case (don't ask), there's some question as to whether I'd even fail the NICS (instant backround check). The lawyer says to just try it, since if you fail the check you don't get in trouble, but I don't want to wind up on some list somewhere as having tried to buy one; and I don't really need or want one. I'm not really anti-gun, they just always seemed more of a talisman to me. My partner has one though, and shoots it a lot, always hits the bullseye, etc, so I guess I kind of have that covered anyway.
|
|
#
¿
Aug 4, 2010 20:21
|
|
|
Haschel Cedricson posted:HidingFromGoro, would it be alright if I directly copied the old thread's OP and posted it elsewhere? As long as it's not for profit, go for it. If it does generate revenue, then go ahead and donate the proceeds to justdetention.org either anonymously or "on behalf of the victims of Joe Arpaio."
|
|
#
¿
Aug 8, 2010 16:42
|
|
|
A.S.H. posted:Cross posted from the LF thread. No because there's nothing left to cut. CA cut spending (cut corners) with their prison medical so bad it had to be entirely taken over by a federal receivership- and they're still in hot water over it. CA's been stacking guys three high in basketball gyms for years- they can't afford cells. The other thread shows facilities where they don't even have beds, and the inmates just sleep on the floor or in hallways. People have to pay rent to go to jail now in many states, and others don't even feed the inmates three times a day. Libraries and recreation were cut long ago, and special legislation is the only thing keeping many rehabilitation/education programs on life support. Some AZ prisons don't even do programs anymore- of any kind- except GED tutoring, and even that's done largely by unpaid volunteers. The entire AZ correctional system is in violation of every applicable fire code- I'm talking like 394 out of 400 alarms & sprinklers nonfunctional, things like that. Riker's is actually physically falling apart... the maintenance and sanitation nationwide has been neglected for so long in order to save money that swarms of rats chew off fingers in IL (because the inmates sleep on the floor). On and on, you name it, and it's already been cut- and this predates the recession by years or decades. As much work as is possible is either done by inmates or contractors, and then there's the whole issue of privatization of the system. If the contractors weren't so incompetent, corrupt, and plagued with cost overruns to the point where they cost states more than they save; who knows maybe the whole Machine would be private by now. So there's literally nothing left to cut except staff pay, or just letting people out. That's why CA is facing having to let out 40,000 people- that's not being done as a favor to the inmates, it's just that there is absolutely no other option on the table. I mean, they could try and cut pay for the staff, but that'll just get you laughed out of the room by the union- and even then, are lower-paid, worse-trained, and less-professional guards what CA inmates need? I think that the outreach and juvenile-intervention stuff is very important, and I don't view them as opposing things to compete over money (this isn't and shouldn't be a "market" type situation after all). The Machine is a totality, an ecosystem, all the parts are interconnected and affect each other in different ways. Preventative measures are better than reaction measures to be sure, at the same time when someone goes into confinement the attitude I have with the government is "you asked for him, you got him" meaning you got what you wanted, you got this guy in a cage; and now like the kid who got the puppy on Christmas you have an ongoing responsibility. That costs money so when you run out, well your the government, raise taxes- raise them double on the "tough on crime" people. "Tough on crime" Republicans/Tea Party are coincidentally the "low taxes" people, so let them know hey we'll pass 3-strikes, we'll increase sentences, and here's how much you will pay for that. That will kill that "tough on crime" poo poo quick. And take the outreach, the diversion, the restorative justice stuff Mugrim posts; take that for adults as well as juveniles. Do it everywhere, all the time. It really saves a lot of money. The guy in Texas I posted, he was going to get 60 years in prison (for drugs), and instead they did probation + a reading club. A reading club. And not only does the reading club reduce recidivism by over half, it's astronomically cheaper. It costs $50K/year to keep someone in prison- and that's assuming the person is a healthy 30-year old. This guy was in his mid-40's. It gets a hell of a lot more expensive as the inmate ages, requiring treatment for chronic disease, heart problems, geriatric care, and all the rest. There's nothing to figure out here- incarceration is very expensive, and there's almost nothing you can do to someone that will cost more than putting them in prison. HidingFromGoro fucked around with this message at 00:36 on Aug 9, 2010 |
|
#
¿
Aug 9, 2010 00:33
|
|
|
quote:bankers There is a perceptual difference in the West (and especially in America) between individual violence and institutional/systemic violence. If am negligent with my car; for example if I drive after drinking, even with no malice "I'm not that drunk" or whatever and kill somebody- even if that person may have been "in the wrong" WRT a red light or whatever- then I will go to prison (especially in AZ, which has the toughest DUI laws in the nation). But if I am negligent with my corporation ("I've skirted these safety regulations plenty of times with no harm," "they knew the risks," etc)- and a mine collapses killing miners, or I cause and oil spill or the Bhopal disaster- well then it's time for a press conference and maybe pay a fine, but the important part is that we all just "get on with our lives" and "work tirelessly to fix the problem." Even if there is malice, for example if my company intentionally starves 200 million people in 30 countries and causes the violent overthrow of a government in pursuit of profit, it's "just business" (incidentally the term used by inmates to describe killing each other). There is never the same (criminal justice) reaction to someone who did that spill killing 12 guys; that there would be if I drove drunk and crashed into a school bus killing 12 people. The mentality between those actions is so different that they wouldn't even come close to being framed in the same way by media, the government, whatever. They're just so alien to one another (within the American 'narrative' or whatever it's called) that nobody even blinks an eye when they're treated differently. It's just supposed to be "the way things work," or if you can even get someone to engage you in the conversation: "dude that's like, totally different." There's a whole book about this: 
|
|
#
¿
Aug 10, 2010 18:46
|
|
|
Mugrim are you still in Texas and if so did you work on the reading-course diversion program?
|
|
#
¿
Aug 10, 2010 19:57
|
|
|
9PoolPony posted:This would be terrible for the people who have lost everything. They get to sit down, face to face with a man that's partly responsible for their financial lives being ruined. No longer is it, 'the recession', 'the bankers', 'the system' - it's Tom Kisby, Banker. Victim-impact panels/encounter sessions are sometimes mandatory for the offender, but they are never mandatory for the victim. I don't think any sane person (even given our insane system) would ever consider making it mandatory for the victim.
|
|
#
¿
Aug 10, 2010 20:00
|
|
|
Fire posted:I thought Dave Chappelle did it best when he did a skit where for one day, the criminal justice system worked in reverse. Institutional crimes were treated like street crimes and street crimes were treated like institutional crimes. While, he loses some points by making it a racial thing, because some white redneck DUI is going to get similar treatment, I think the skit does a good job of consciousness raising. How is Goldman-Sachs any less destructive than a small time coke dealer? I haven't seen this (I've only seen the "fifth!" one) and don't have cable. Is it available online?
|
|
#
¿
Aug 10, 2010 20:02
|
|
|
HidingFromGoro posted:Citing concerns over how much it might cost, AG Holder is still dragging his heels when it comes to stopping prison rape. Just so you guys know, Eric Holder (along with Barack Obama) is still dragging his heels, and he's still intentionally complicit in the devastation of hundreds of thousands of people's lives. Because he's choosing not to enforce a law- a unanimously-supported law- which exists to remedy one of the most heinous institutional failures in American history; a failure that enables, condones, and even encourages the large-scale violent torture of citizens across the entire nation. From sea to shining sea, legions of people are brutalized to an extent the average person can't even comprehend, through unspeakable pain and indescribable humiliation. Every four minutes, someone's life is irrevocably changed- they will never be the same. For some of them their families will be shattered, for others it will "only" be a private hell. For all of them life is vastly, horribly different. Every four minutes, this happens. Chris J happens. Everywhere, and all the time. Eric Holder can act, and let's be real, he's not gonna stamp it out altogether overnight. But he can act. He can enforce that law- literally the people's law, passed unanimously in record time- he can act. The President can force him to act. But no, let's worry about a few dollars. In the time it took me write this, it happened again. Twice. A person, a person with a family that loves them, who made their mark on their community, was raped- maybe gang-raped. And with a level of force and violence and degradation such that you can scarcely imagine. If you read this then look at the timestamp, and you clock, and divide that by four minutes. That's how many times it happened since I posted this. What kind of letters are you going to write? What kind of stand are you going to take? Don't answer me, I don't want your answer. The next Chris J wants your answer (3:59 and counting as you read this sentence). You want it for yourself (maybe you don't?) Your community, your nation wants it. 3:55, and counting. It's time. 3:50 Let's stop this, let's end this. 3:45 HidingFromGoro fucked around with this message at 22:21 on Aug 11, 2010 |
|
#
¿
Aug 11, 2010 22:17
|
|
|
olylifter posted:The Justice Department is moving on states that segregate prisoners with HIV. An easy spin to make, considering the Obama administration isn't enforcing (or even complying with) existing laws addressing prison rape.
|
|
#
¿
Aug 14, 2010 23:26
|
|
|
baquerd posted:Spent on the machine? I thought the whole point was the private prisons are profitable. They are the least expensive possible "caretakers". False. The thing with private prisons, not only aren't they cheaper, they're significantly less safe- guards are 49% more likely to get assaulted in a private prison, and inmates are 65% more likely (pdf) - despite the fact that a state prison is 7 times more likely to house violent offenders than a private one is (since private prisons get to pick & choose what inmates they accept). Not to mention: FInancial & regulatory manipulation by prison contractors. Private prisons are "comedy goldmine," and the joke's on the taxpayers. $11 robbery may carry death sentence, thanks to privatized prison health care. Idaho private prison is "gladiator school," "one of the most violent in the US," in one of the worst cases the ACLU has ever seen (2 guards per 350 inmates). The amount of the fine for so much violence? $40,000. CCA under federal investigation over staff members raping detained immigrants. GEO Group (Wackenhut) settles case over 10,000 inappropriate strip-searches. More death at private prison sparks Hawaii investigation of AZ facility. Shoddy oversight and cut corners in Kentucky result in over a dozen inmates raped by staff in private facility. CCA had heavy hand in drafting & passing AZ's immigration bill CCA employees admit lax training & hiring standards, including hiring ex-felons. CCA employee is gang member, is involved in gang shooting (along w/ her 16yo son). Here's a 400 page rap sheet for GEO group, the site also links to the other big companies. I can do this all day. But even disregarding all of that, for-profit incarceration was explicitly invented in the post-Civil War South as an end-run around slavery; and now in 2010 we've not only got businessmen directly profiting off mass incarceration but influencing the legislation that generates more prisoners. Abolish it.
|
|
#
¿
Aug 16, 2010 19:46
|
|
|
Authorman posted:I can't find the article but I read that comparing a block in Brooklyn from the seventies and now, that despite all the cuts to the social safety nets over the years the government is spending the nearly the same amount of money on that block, having all the social spending replaced by the cost of the 'corrective' system (police, parole, imprisonment and the like). There was a really great LF thread a long time ago that had all these reports, charts, and interactive(?) maps- focused on Brooklyn, IIRC- that correlated safety-net spending with incarceration rates, recidivism rates, all sorts of things. Mostly centered on housing location, I think? Emphatically not trying to make excuses, but I got hit in the head a lot (some by prison guards but mostly by police at Arpaio protests [long story]), and my memory's not what it used to be. I had some of the maps on my old computer before it crashed- maybe someone remembers that thread or the OP and can post the stuff here? I have plat so I'll be glad to PM the OP if someone remembers and doesn't have that ability.
|
|
#
¿
Aug 16, 2010 23:26
|
|
|
baquerd posted:Does anyone have any knowledge regarding celebrity prisoners? I imagine unless it's something particularly heinous they're treated with kid gloves the entire way, protective custody, that sort of thing? Is it almost entirely a personal thing, like a B-grade celebrity no one has really heard of but a guard likes gets special treatment? Generally speaking, celebrities or high-profile cases are kept in special housing both for their own protection and to avoid disrupting the day-to-day on the main line. For example Arpaio told everyone he had DMX in his dog n' pony tent deal, when in reality he was on a minimum tier in the actual Phoenix jail- the lie stopped when he gave an interview from the jail, only to be repeated after his release. Arpaio has some kind of mental disorder that renders him almost totally incapable of telling the truth, even when it comes to something as inconsequential as that. Tyson always did his time in special-needs, same with the UFC guy who got locked up a while ago. You just can't have a guy like that on the main line. Especially Tyson with his temper- why take the chance he goes ballistic on someone and then gets stabbed to death. Imagine being the warden and having to go on TV saying that Mike Tyson got carved liked a Thanksgiving turkey on your watch. Or the flipside: imagine that you're an active gang member already doing double life no parole, and you know you're headed for the SHU sooner or later once the gang-intelligence unit validates you- with nothing left to lose, why not be the guy who killed Iron Mike? Some people think it isn't fair for celebs (or cops) to go to special housing, but there's really no other way. The key to a successful prison sentence is staying low profile, off the radar to the extent possible. A celeb is handicapped from the get-go, by definition they're not low profile, so it's "fair" in the sense that by going to special-needs they're getting a chance to work their programs & do their time without excessive drama. I mean ideally it wouldn't be necessary because we'd run every yard like a special-needs yard (or a military one), but it's the best solution in a far-from-ideal prison system. Everybody deserves to do they time in peace, which is why I don't really get on the "send Tyson, cops, and Michael Vick to the main line" bandwagon- that's the same bandwagon that idiots ride when they advocate for harsh prison conditions/prison sexual assault, after all. Like the "prison rape is an ideal situation" guy who posted on this board, and it didn't seem like he was joking. Ridiculous. Although in some ways that guy might have been a product of something beyond himself, media and the like, or maybe just too much time on the internet. I mean, I "get" it, and better than most. After all I did do some pretty unacceptable violence to some people when I was in prison, a little younger and a lot dumber. Based largely on peculiarities of prison social rules- but based in part on they crimes- and one guy may not ever be the same, and I have to live with it, that I made time a lot worse for some guys, even though I try to make it better for others nowdays. All that pain, and headache for the staff, and extra prison time for me, and for what? Nothing, in retrospect, although at the time it seemed more than nothing. That's for another thread, I guess. TLDR: generally speaking yes celebs get treated/housed different, no it doesn't seem fair, but when you think about it for 30 seconds, it really is & can't be done any other way.
|
|
#
¿
Aug 18, 2010 08:43
|
|
|
mew force shoelace posted:It isn't fair, the way the justice system treats rich or famous people is absurd. The alternative is a death sentence. If Mike Tyson goes to the main line at Pelican Bay he's not coming out. That's just real. Same for the UFC guys, we're talking about strong guys, pro athletes; not even that, professional fighters- beat folks' rear end for a living- but that's not going to matter in GenPop at a state prison. The risk is just too great putting these guys on the main line in the name of some sort of egalitarianism. Not just from fighting, you'd have a giant extortion risk because everyone on that yard knows the guy is rich. Their loved ones on the outside could potentially be at risk. I mean that's literally why special-needs exists. It's right there in the name: Tyson and other celebrities are extreme edge cases who have special needs when they go to prison, just because of who they are. Now, we can debate whether special-needs should even exist in the first place- and it should- but that's different from whether celebs should be put there for their own safety + maintaining the (absolutely crucial) routine in the day-to-day of the other inmates. I hear what you're saying, you're saying "why should they get special treatment because they're famous," and that's absolutely a valid question, especially coming from someone who's (I'm assuming) never been in prison. If you asked me that question "in a vacuum" (or however you say it) then I would answer no. What I'm saying is you need to flip it- you need to ask "should they get worse treatment- which is all but guaranteed outside of special housing- on account of being famous." I don't know how much more clearly I can state it: Everyone in prison deserves a safe and "fair" sentence. Nobody deserves beatings, extortion, or stabbings. They weren't sentenced to that. That's why there's no co-ed housing units. That's why pedophiles are housed separately, and why transgender should be housed separately. Some people even go so far as to advocate racially segregated prisons. I don't, because I know what would happen in the Afro-American and Latino units- and besides, the inmates have self-segregated prisons for 50 years now. That self-segregation is what's preventing an all-out race war from erupting in Califas- a war that can and absolutely would consume the entire nation. Not just in the prisons, but in the streets- your streets, your place of business, everything & everywhere, all the time. Anyway. Don't think about it like the World, where being famous is an advantage. Think about it in terms of the Inside. In prison, it's a handicap. It sounds counter-intuitive, but think about it in terms of knowing that the key to doing a safe & successful prison sentence is being low-profile. To be sure, it's a handicap, in some ways worse than a physical disability. Sounds strange, but it's true. Special housing is actually "leveling the playing field" for celebs.
|
|
#
¿
Aug 18, 2010 22:35
|
|
|
Maheda posted:HFG I'm sure you've touched on this in the past and possibly even in this thread but I'd be curious to hear your take on the use of prisons as economic development for white communities at the expense of black and hispanic ones. Like I said, you've probably talked about it before. Well it gets even worse than that, to the point where you'l have a prison with 155 staff members and only 6 inmates But yeah, that's why it's called the prison-industrial complex. UNICOR makes all the furniture for the government, electronics, targets, kevlar vests, uniforms, linens, auto parts... you name it and UNICOR makes it with inmate labor at 23 cents an hour (less 50% to pay court-ordered debts). Their products are only used by the government, though. Here's a list of the different state prison industry agencies. Inmate labor is very cheap and what you might call a "renewable resource." But that's just inmate labor. There's a whole world of industry, political clout, and revenue that comes along with prisons. Build a prison in your town, and there's construction & materials contracts, hundreds of new jobs for guards, maintenance, support staff, training facilities, equipment vendors; then the contractors to supply the soap, the food, the weapons (and plenty of instructors/seminars to go with them). Then you've got the boost to retail & restaurants where the guards are going to spend their money and the little counseling centers where the released inmates will spend their money to comply with their mandatory programs post-release. When guys get paroled sometimes they have to go to classes, or simply go to an office and get one form or the other stamped, maybe get the little sensor thing on their car if they're a drunk driver or parenting education classes or drug counseling or piss tests... that's all paid out-of-pocket by the offender. They'll need parole/probation/community supervision officers, and those officers will need chairs and computers and pens and copiers- and then the contracts for the maintenance man who fixes the copier, and the guy who runs the crew to clean the carpets (and the carpet supplier too, while I'm at it). Contracts for the poor Wackenhut saps to drive the bus shuttling inmates to and fro, contracts for company that makes the ankle monitors, and the company that maintains the vehicles bought on the fleet contract from the dealership (owned by the guy who knows a guy that secured the contract in the first place). Contracts to buy walkie-talkies, golf carts, TV sets, toothpaste, taser batteries, gas masks, woodburning kits, the HVAC repairman, metal detectors, basketballs, ethernet wires, shower shoes, meal trays, grenades, kitchen utensils, handcuffs, spit hoods, restraint chairs... there's money to be made everywhere you look when a new prison comes to town. Now, after building all of this and greasing so many wheels in the process, you get the added bonus of being able to count all these inmates as residents/constituents via prison gerrymandering (who incidentally can't vote against you- or at all, for that matter) to increase your political clout. Plus you're tough on crime, you stimulated the economy, and you brought all these great jobs to all these hard working red-blooded Americans. See you at your re-election party! But there is one thing the Machine produces that is more important than all of this: more inmates. Take away the student loans, take away those other dozens or hundreds of other privileges for a drug conviction that I posted about earlier in the "closing the gap" post (the government even admits its to punish "casual drug users" by taking away all federal benefits). Take away everything you can while making sure there is a minimal "safety net" (wouldn't wanna waste money on "deficit spending" for "entitlements," now would you?) and you're certain to make sure there will always be more inmates. It's like the old saying "the bureaucracy is expanding to meet the needs of the expanding bureaucracy." The dragon eating its own tail, or what have you. HidingFromGoro fucked around with this message at 23:20 on Aug 18, 2010 |
|
#
¿
Aug 18, 2010 23:16
|
|
|
HidingFromGoro posted:the Machine A lot of people have accused me of hyperbole, and maybe they're right. But this poo poo- this Machine- affects you. Yeah you, the Something Awful Debate & Discussion reader- YOU. That money It's gobbling up? Your tax money. The Constitutional rights It erodes or shits on entirely? Your rights. The souls It feeds on? Your neighbors, co-workers, valet drivers; your brother or cousin or son. That law enforcement budget getting stretched with paying out settlements and corrupt privatization contracts? That's less budget to investigate or prevent crimes against you. That state people ridicule? Your state. Wrong side of the tracks? Your side. That politician who got into office and is screwing you over? Your politician. That guy who got raped or otherwise abused when he was in prison, thanks to inept, overworked, or nonexistent guards; and who's pissed the gently caress off at the whole world, and ready to explode? He's working at your gas station, or grocery store, or mechanic- you see him every day, whether you know it or not. Your kids see him every day, too.
|
|
#
¿
Aug 18, 2010 23:54
|
|
|
olylifter posted:http://www.time.com/time/photogallery/0,29307,2009197,00.html Notice how politicians will say out one side of their mouth how sophisticated, restrictive, and secure Supermax prisons are. And out the other side of their mouth, they will say that we "need" to put Taliban suspects or whoever in Gitmo because they're "too dangerous" for US prisons.
|
|
#
¿
Aug 20, 2010 03:10
|
|
|
lemonadesweetheart posted:I always figured they didn't want them in an american prison because if they are such high profile inmates they'd have to be put into PC and out of gen pop just like other celebrities and thusly wouldn't get the same horrible treatment terrible criminals like illegal aliens and crack heads get. Just put them in the Glass House at the Navy brig in Miramar or the adseg alpha unit - converted & funded for this specific purpose in 2002- at the Charleston brig, problem solved. They don't qualify to go to a state prison (luckily for them), in any case.
|
|
#
¿
Aug 20, 2010 03:47
|
|
|
Mister Macys posted:How in the gently caress is that legal or constitutional? It's called CMU or "Communication Management Unit." For immigrants, it can be even worse, with denial of attorney or family visits- even going so far as to shuffle them around to different facilities without telling anyone where the inmates are actually located, within Homeland Security's immigrant-only network of secret prisons (the so-called ICE Castles). This includes Haiti earthquake refugees who were mistakenly brought to the US by military relief planes- and then subsequently sent directly into jail for lack of visas. No, really. Some of them have already been shuffled into other facilities; and you guessed it, substandard or nonexistent medical care & legal representation as well as indefinite detention. quote:The government’s actions have been especially bewildering for the survivors’ relatives, like Virgile Ulysse, 69, an American citizen who keeps an Obama poster on his kitchen wall in Norwalk, Conn. Mr. Ulysse said he could not explain to his nephews, Jackson, 20, and Reagan, 25, why they were brought to the United States on a military plane only to be jailed at the Broward center when they arrived in Orlando on Jan. 19. "And the Obama administration has stepped up detention and deportation of so-called criminal aliens, including many legal immigrants with low-level drug convictions." e: to answer your first question- It isn't. To your second- There are a lot of rights you have in theory, which may or may not be afforded you in practice; should you get locked up in the US. HidingFromGoro fucked around with this message at 09:47 on Aug 21, 2010 |
|
#
¿
Aug 21, 2010 09:40
|
|
|
Nonsense posted:It's good to know that Americans can solve our financial crisis and immigration 'problem' with true innovation. It's not just Latinos who have reason to dislike Brewer- after all, she canceled S-CHIP leaving 47,000 low-income kids without medical care, and costing the state hundreds of millions of dollars in federal funding. She's also kicking 310,000 people off of Medicaid, and still more cuts are on the way, too. Hey it was either that or enact a one-cent sales tax. I'm not joking, that's how we roll in Arizona.
|
|
#
¿
Aug 23, 2010 09:53
|
|
|
|
|
#
¿
Aug 23, 2010 19:37
|
|
|
21stCentury posted:Wow, i read about the ICE Castles in this thread (or the LF one), but jailing Haiti refugees as soon as they're off the plane? What the gently caress? Am I misunderstanding something? What happened with the Haitians is more an indictment of ICE than the military. Them being on the planes was almost certainly an unintended result of the not-uncommon carelessness of enlisted folks; instead of a plot to deliberately shanghai some earthquake survivors into ICE Castles- an assumption which might be difficult for some to believe given Gitmo, abu-Ghraib, Bagram, etc- but borne out, I think, by the evidence and (relatively) small scale of the situation. If that's what they wanted, there would have been separate planes, and once the story broke a sacrificial lamb would have been offered up by DoD (as with Lynndie England). Or they would have gone to the military's network of secret prisons instead of shuffled around with ICE's Keystone Kops. Or, or... The list of would-haves and could-haves is so long, imo, that the "razor theory" or whatever indicates the military didn't mean to bring them here. As far as the bonus/profit motive, it does play a part in the overall mistreatment of immigrant detainees. I've posted a lot about rapes-by-staff and other human-rights violations in privatized immigrant detention, as well as the cut corners, cost overruns, corruption, race to the bottom... all the things inherent in private incarceration, to the point that single facilities or single companies have the lion's share of these types of problems (usually directly correlated with their profits). This, though; this almost certainly isn't a collusion between the military and ICE. I'm certain it's just good old ICE focusing on the letter vs the spirit of the law, and choosing not to take various factors (such as intent, for example) into account- just like usual. It's part of the national freak-out over immigration; and I know it better than most, I'm in AZ where we've been freaking out over immigration for a good long while. I even called it back during the health care "debate" thing. I used to say, you think this is bad- wait till there's a national "debate" over immigrants/"illegal aliens." And now that it's just barely starting you already have folks talking about repealing parts of the Constitution, and it'll only get worse as both sides try to deflect criticism of the economy & the "free trade" policies and/or lack of regulation that contributed greatly to the mess we're in, along with all the other institutional/governmental/corporate failures... There's a storm coming- believe that.
|
|
#
¿
Aug 23, 2010 21:57
|
|
|
Beaters posted:Actually, we could raise other taxes here. However, the Republicans hold their power largely as a result of keeping taxes low. Since they are firmly in control of both the governorship and the legislature, they'd have to take the rap for raising any taxes to balance the budget. So, they won't go there. Note how they put the current sales tax increase on the ballot so they wouldn't have to take direct responsibility even for that come next election. That is still no excuse, and take it from me- given my very low income, what taxes I pay are the most regressive. That a regressive tax such as a sales tax was the only option on the table speaks volumes about Arizona. That we'd throw 357,000 people (including nearly 50K impoverished children!) to the wolves wrt they health care speaks libraries- it speaks entire cities. That's more than the entire population of Belize. It's almost the entire amount of people employed by UPS... worldwide. It's morally indefensible- taxes, elections, or not. (NOTE: I'm not accusing you of defending it!)
|
|
#
¿
Aug 23, 2010 22:41
|
|
|
AmbassadorFriendly posted:sex and gender Funny you should ask- HidingFromGoro posted:
With few exceptions, all of these people are involved with the elimination of prison rape, the reform of our prison system, and overall social justice. On the national level. It is an enormous investment of time, and spirit, and money- and they are not rich, and they are not paid to do this. I have met some of these people, held them in my arms. No, that's not right- they held me in theirs. Their conviction, their dedication- their passion- is unquestionable, absolute. Without exception they personify strength, beauty, dignity, and courage- to a degree you can't possibly imagine. HidingFromGoro posted:Mothers Among Fastest Growing Prison Population HidingFromGoro posted:
HidingFromGoro fucked around with this message at 12:39 on Aug 24, 2010 |
|
#
¿
Aug 24, 2010 12:36
|
|
And it's not just women/LGBT
|
Deleuzionist posted:Or to put it shortly, there is very little reason to believe the US military of today would be directly involved in what can factually be called slave trade, considering that they outsourced such* activities* years* ago*. There's more overlap with PMC's and prison than you might think, at least in my experience. I've known more than one person who's worked at a PMC (even back during the 90's when they proudly self-identified as 'mercenaries') in between prison sentences- including a senior Aryan Brotherhood officer of some renown, I'm talking a validated TCB kind of guy. Nowdays PMC's are supposedly more selective with who they pick, and do background checks, etc. but still, even now I've run into folks who've worked there within the past 5 years; and there is zero ambiguity about who these guys are based solely on tattoos, to say nothing of whatever a background check would turn up. I believe the reason there aren't even more folks like the aforementioned guy in PMC's is because they've been working with military for so long, they can just recruit right from there. You know, run the game of hey bro, why re-enlist, just come work with us and do the same stuff you're doing now for a 600% raise. That type of stuff. "TCB" is "Taking Care of Business." In prison that means killing people, specifically killing for profit, either yours or (more commonly) the gang's. Now, you can false-flag if you want- the guy at the tattoo shop will give you a raised eyebrow at the least, though- but if you wind up in the wrong bar or the "bad neighborhood" you'll be in for some trouble. If you wind up in prison with a TCB-related tattoo it might get removed with a crude (and dull) knife, but more likely you'll just be killed.
|
|
#
¿
Aug 25, 2010 06:21
|
|
|
Rutibex posted:I'm not really cheering for such an outcome, I abhor violence of any kind. I just think it's something to consider when you oppress large masses of people they tend to rebel. I'll answer this much in the same way I answered the guy in the gun control thread. Think about what the violent overthrow of the US government means, just in terms of the immediate consequences: mass killings of public officials, most rich people, and a sizeable chunk of the American population; worldwide economy thrown into abject ruin; most (all?) wealth evaporates overnight; military equipment (including nuclear weapons) falling into the hands of whoever; on and on. Look what happened across the world in the wake of 9/11, or when some banks decided to play games with mortgage securities- a US civil war would be a nightmare of unimaginable scope. The government would stop at nothing to prevent that from happening, no matter the cost. Any activity which got even remotely close to threatening that would be utterly crushed. A bunch of people just got shot in Folsom, and 99% of the country doesn't even know it happened, let alone why- let alone care. Look at how far they go already in peacetime, or Katrina, Waco, etc. There is no limit to how far they will go if the the upper classes' entire way of life is threatened (along with their actual lives), to say nothing of what would happen if the very existence of the government/country is on the line. They would reduce whole cities to ashes, if necessary. The idea of a large-scale violent revolt / civil war happening in the US (much less a successful one) is ludicrous, exceeded in stupidity only by those who believe civilian-owned firearms will pose any meaningful opposition to government forces in such a situation.
|
|
#
¿
Aug 30, 2010 01:01
|
|
|
 Robert King, internationally-recognized prison reform activist and Angola 3 member who spent 29 years in solitary, wrote an article for the Guardian on Saturday. quote:'I talk about my years in solitary as if it was the past, but the truth is it never leaves you. In some ways I am still there' Bonus: Interview / mini-lecture featuring King and Dr. Terry Kupers, world-renowned expert on prison mental health issues and Human Rights Watch consultant. Covers race issues, the effects of solitary, and more. A must-see. Also, King and Kupers on slavery at Angola King makes pralines from scratch using a prison recipe and sells them to finance much of his activism- three dollars at a time. He calls them 'Freelines.' He also stayed behind during Katrina to make them for rescue workers.  Robert King posted:In 1962, I learned to make candy from a fellow prisoner named 'Cap Pistol.' Over the years, using a stove made from cans and tissue, I perfected the recipe. Now that I'm free, I can make life a little 'sweeter' for you! 
|
|
#
¿
Aug 30, 2010 22:40
|
|
|
Some death penalty information re: race, courtesy of dm
|
|
#
¿
Aug 30, 2010 22:42
|
|
|
No surprise here, Maricopa County has decided not to prosecute the guards who killed 48-year-old Marcia Powell by leaving her in an oven-like metal "punishment cage" in the AZ sun. http://blogs.phoenixnewtimes.com/bastard/2010/09/marcia_powells_death_unavenged.php quote:The Maricopa County Attorney's Office has chosen not to prosecute Arizona Department of Corrections staff in the death of inmate Marcia Powell. Also note that the narrative of retributive justice has been used for so long, that even one of the most outspoken critics of Joe Arpaio is using words like "unavenged."
|
|
#
¿
Sep 3, 2010 22:29
|
|
|
  
|
|
#
¿
Sep 7, 2010 03:37
|
|
|
Here's the prison envelope art I've posted before:       Prison comics:         Lots more inmate-drawn comics here.
|
|
#
¿
Sep 7, 2010 03:37
|
|
|
|
| # ¿ May 14, 2024 14:01 |
|
|
E: never mind Edit 2, for content: here's my take on the prison shows such as Lockup Ayn Randi posted:i caught the end of some prison porn show like americas authoritarianist prisons the other night and every single guard/prison employee, male and female, absolutely without exception was massively obese. im not sure what the meaning and implications are here but it was too consistent to not notice. 1) Corrections is an inherently sedentary field (with infrequent, short-duration periods of activity, and then only for certain jobs); and- more so than police which is saying something- there's a sharp divide within the correctional community between weightlifters and non-weightlifters. This is further subdivided between juice vs no juice and bodybuilding vs powerlifting. 1a) Weightlifting (specifically bodybuilding, but also powerlifting) is a large and historic part of prison culture; and as the inmates go, so go the guards. (The osmosis works the other way too, which is why introducing harsher tactics or meaner guards increases rather than reduces inmate-on-inmate violence). 2) The types of personalities common in bodybuilder jailors are not the types of personalities a prison warden is going to want shown to the general public. 3) The types in 2) are typically not the type to want to go on camera for a prisonporn show. 4) Prisonporn shows are edited together from hundreds or thousands of hours worth of footage by experts looking to maximize appeal to the target audience (older white folks). CHeck out the commercials that play during prisonporn. Boner pills, investment companies, heart/cholestrol pills, large sedans/SUVs, Olive Garden. That's who these shows are made for, they're not documentaries. They're going to show an "everyman" who looks like a couch potato instead of someone who looks like a Universal Soldier. Remember, the media message is designed to downplay the militarization of the individual officers and the culture in general. Portray them as aw-shucks good ol' folks who don't take no lip, but with a heart of gold (and sclerosis). That's why you see the focus on the technology of the weapons and the prison itself- the guards must be humanized. They're the "good guys" after all; just regular folk trying to get by, their (fetishized) technology are necessary tools to do battle with the intentionally dehumanized (by the show) inmates. Who by the way are frequently shown shirtless and tattoo'd, and working out all the time. Especially the quick shots of the yard, or the little montages bookending commercial breaks. And if they can get some non-consenting inmates with their faces blurred out, so much the better- I wouldn't be surprised if this is intentional. Inmate interviews always follow the same canned (& heavily-edited) script, with plenty of focus on the offense; guard interviews are a little more free-form, lots of "walking around my office" shots or "friendly banter with passing inmates" shots. In contrast to the quick impersonal group shots of inmates, again almost always working out, or edited to seem as if they're "glancing furtively" as dumb music plays over it. Whenever inmates are shown doing something productive, like when they show guys getting to use a music room or something, it's used as an exception to countershade the overall impressions left by the group shots, even if they spend a lot of time on it. 5) What forgotabout dreyfus said. 6) Don't watch prisonporn, or if you do, watch it critically because it's a very carefully created (and successful) attempt to shape public opinion on prison conditions and correctional policy. Every minute of those shows was pre-approved by the department of corrections, and then checked and re-checked by corrections officials, in addition to being heavily edited and editorialized. Rather than documentary in nature, it's quite literally state-managed media with the express purpose of influencing the voting public. HidingFromGoro fucked around with this message at 23:44 on Sep 11, 2010 |
|
#
¿
Sep 9, 2010 04:47
|
|