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PROGRESS! OATHBRINGER - PART 2 Initial thought - I feel like this part was a mixed bag. Not like a mix of good and bad, more a mix of good and ehhhh fine. The Bridge Four chapters felt like the story was in stalling mode. I wouldn't necessarily say it felt like the story was spinning its wheels, because that's to say it was going nowhere. I just feel like the Bridge Four chapters slowed down the pacing dramatically as I'm ready to get to some exciting stuff. For this being a Dalinar book, it is wild that we spend more time with Bridge Four (I'm including Moash in this). Out of curiosity, I checked the numbers for the audiobook. Jasnah has 45 minutes. Shallan gets 100 minutes. Dalinar gets 210 minutes. And Bridge Four gets 230 minutes. Again, that's not to say this is bad. The end of the Rock chapter had me in tears. I like spending time learning about Bridge Four, it just feels like a bit of a stalling distraction. I almost wish the Bridge Four chapters were part of a collection of short stories. "Tales of Bridge Four" or something like that. Dalinar Flashbacks - I love how the tone of the flashbacks kinda shift. In the early Dalinar flashbacks, it was "haha look at this funny barbarian man walking through the highstorm for a knife" and by later flashbacks it's "boy this guy is a piece of poo poo abusive husband." I still don't know what happened for him to want to get Evi's memory erased by I have a guess. The way that The Thrill manifests in Dalinar reminds me of video-gamey bloodlust. My guess is that Dalinar drinks too deep of The Thrill and ends up murdering Evi (Dalinar is Kratos). Bridge Four Chapters - Fuckin Moash. I know that's a repeated sentiment here but goddamn, fuckin Moash. Overall, there were way too many Moash chapters. A full 20% of the chapters in this part are Moash chapters. Jasnah - Her calling Amaram a pig-fucker was very good. Shallan's reaction to Jasnah's eviscerating of Amaram perfectly mirrored my own. Renarin - I want more time with him. There's some weird poo poo going on with him and his spren and I would much rather have a Renarin chapter than another Moash chapter. Shallan - I've really enjoyed her fractured psyche. Her alternate personalities are definitely solidifying more and I am loving here for her descent into madness. Shallan loving rules. Dalinar may be my favorite Stormlight character but Shallan is the one I get most excited for, if that make sense. Bridge Four - The ending of the Rock chapter absolutely broke me. I'm a loving sucker for sappy nostalgia - especially in the face of change - and them running the bridge "one last time" actually brought tears to my eyes. The other Bridge Four chapters weren't bad in and of themselves, it is just where they are placed in the story. Any time a Bridge Four chapter came up, I wanted to be with our main protagonists. Lift - is awesome. The Heralds & Voidbringers/Fused - I don't know if I'm fully grasping the details that were given. I'm sure that's by intention. I think I get the how, but not sure I get the why. Again, probably intentional. So please correct me if I'm wrong in this. Currently how I understand it: - The term Voidbringers seems somewhat interchangeable with Fused. Sure, the Listeners/Parshendi/Parshmen make up the Voidbringer army, but they aren't themselves Voidbringers. The Fused are the real Voidbringers. - Storm Form = Fused? Was Eshonai a Fused when she took Storm Form? - The Fused respawn when they "die." Cognitive Shadows? The "spren" that turn into Fused are ancient Listener souls? - The Fused souls can get trapped - somewhere - Damnation? I think the Arcanum Unbounded referred to this as another planet in the system? - But the Fused souls only get trapped their if there is a Herald to be tortured? Or something? - When all the Fused are trapped in Damnation, all the Heralds have to "die" to go to Damnation to get tortured? - As soon as a Herald breaks from torture, a Desolation begins. What I'm confused about : - If none of the Heralds have "died" and are in Torture Realm, how did they keep the Fused from respawning? - How do the Heralds/Fused get teleported to Torture Realm? - Why do the Heralds have to stay in Torture Realm getting tortured? - Why did the ancient listener souls become spren that can respawn? The Recreance - I'm very curious about this. The Stormfather was adamant about keeping the reasoning secret. Thanks to my friend that likes to overshare, though I haven't learned it in the books yet, I'm aware that humans are not native to Roshar. I'm curious if that has to do with why the Radiants abandoned their Oaths. Basically they found out they're essentially colonizers and went "gently caress that." Random thought - What ever happened to Thude and the Listeners that escaped Eshonai? Will Rlain get to meet them? Side note - Wife had the following reaction to the Lift interlude in WoR: Lift's interlude feels like you're in a Pixar film until suddenly you're not. She too likes Lift.
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Apr 15, 2024 23:12
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The big thing to frame Fused/Herald stuff is this - The characters use a bunch of analogies because they don't actually know, nobody knows. "The Heralds are like a Cork" etc. No one living knows, no reader knows, not even Coppermind knows for now. All we know is that its not like the characters get teleported to the hellraiser dimension, there is much more nuance, and its more like a magical legal contract rather than hard physics. I hope we never get a real explanation, or if we do, its first person from one very specific character.
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Apr 15, 2024 23:21
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Mordiceius posted:
Stormform is not Fused. And those are some very good questions you're asking.
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Apr 15, 2024 23:23
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CapnAndy posted:Some of that stuff you're supposed to be confused about, some of it you're supposed to know but I'm not sure when you learn it so I won't answer yet. I think it's safe to clarify two things, though: "Voidbringer" is a very broad, generic term that's got thousands of years of history-turned-to-myth-turned-to-religion behind it. Before the books started, to an average Rosharan, it meant "demons that the Heralds fought in the Before Times". Characters are currently using it as sort of a catch-all for "Odium's army"; it's inexact by nature. Agreed. Very good questions are being asked here. All I can say is, Read and Find Out. But before you even think about reading Rhythm of War, read Dawnshard, all of Mistborn Era 1, and Warbreaker. But, very, very good questions are being asked. You are on the right path.
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Apr 15, 2024 23:38
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A Sneaker Broker posted:Agreed. Very good questions are being asked here. All I can say is, Read and Find Out. But before you even think about reading Rhythm of War, read Dawnshard, all of Mistborn Era 1, and Warbreaker. But, very, very good questions are being asked. You are on the right path. Yeah, I've got all of Mistborn done (which makes (Lost Metal Spoiler) every appearance of the Ghostbloods really amusing since The Lost Metal immediately lays out that they're Kelsier's group) as well as Warbreaker. Mordiceius fucked around with this message at 23:45 on Apr 15, 2024 |
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Apr 15, 2024 23:40
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Mordiceius posted:Yeah, I've got all of Mistborn done (which makes every appearance of the Ghostbloods really amusing since The Lost Metal immediately lays out that they're Kelsier's group) as well as Warbreaker. I just spoiled myself since that isn't Era 1 but now I'm reallyyyyyyy interested in reading Era 2.
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Apr 15, 2024 23:44
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A Sneaker Broker posted:I just spoiled myself since that isn't Era 1 but now I'm reallyyyyyyy interested in reading Era 2. poo poo. My bad. I should have tagged that better. Gonna be interesting since Mistborn Era 3 is literally just titled (general Mistborn Era 2/Stormlight spoiler) GHOSTBLOODS
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Apr 15, 2024 23:45
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quote:Renarin - I want more time with him. There's some weird poo poo going on with him and his spren I feel like Renarin has to be slow rolled a little bit because, just from the surface, truthwatchers do some absolutely incredibly crazy poo poo edit: and of course without spoilers, there's cause to believe his crazy poo poo is going to be even crazier than the usual crazy poo poo Potato Salad fucked around with this message at 23:58 on Apr 15, 2024 |
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Apr 15, 2024 23:51
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Potato Salad posted:I feel like Renarin has to be slow rolled a little bit because, just from the surface, truthwatchers do some absolutely incredibly crazy poo poo Tag that with a spoiler. E: Also I am 82% done with RoW, at Chapter 92. We're building up to something. I don't know what but it's gonna be big. I think I am close to Part 5 when Brando Sando decides to nuke all expectations.
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Apr 15, 2024 23:51
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^^^^ tag your own quoting of it, then! Potato Salad posted:I feel like Renarin has to be slow rolled a little bit because, just from the surface, truthwatchers do some absolutely incredibly crazy poo poo
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Apr 15, 2024 23:52
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CapnAndy posted:^^^^ tag your own quoting of it, then! Nope. It was never explained. So I guess we wait for Book 5.
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Apr 15, 2024 23:53
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A Sneaker Broker posted:Nope. It was never explained. So I guess we wait for Book 5. I hope so. I forget where the tentative plan for each titular main character was provided, but apparently the plan is for book 5 to be Szeth's main book.
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Apr 15, 2024 23:57
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CapnAndy posted:^^^^ tag your own quoting of it, then! doesn't answer your question (i think we really don't know) but those little lore videos have some interesting snippets about where he's heading with the orders we know less about https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-kPMfm4u--k eke out fucked around with this message at 00:02 on Apr 16, 2024 |
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Apr 15, 2024 23:58
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Potato Salad posted:I hope so. I forget where the tentative plan for each titular main character was provided, but apparently the plan is for book 5 to be Szeth's main book. I'm not even close to finishing RoW, but It sure does feel like Brandon is gearing up for a multi-dimensional, multi-front, full-on Cosmere war.
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Apr 16, 2024 00:00
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A Sneaker Broker posted:I'm not even close to finishing RoW, but It sure does feel like Brandon is gearing up for a multi-dimensional, multi-front, full-on Cosmere war.
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Apr 16, 2024 00:11
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CapnAndy posted:That's because he is. Emberdark first chapter/Sunlit Man spoiler: Bit of a shame that it's gonna be Roshar vs. Scadrial, too. Man, I have a lot to read. Goddamnit.
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Apr 16, 2024 00:18
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CapnAndy posted:That's because he is. Emberdark first chapter/Sunlit Man spoiler: Bit of a shame that it's gonna be Roshar vs. Scadrial, too. I mean, that makes sense. Roshar and Scadrial are the two most "developed" worlds (in terms of Brandon's writing, not technology). Very curious if it will be that one side is truly the antagonist and "bad guys" or if they'll pull a World of Warcraft and have to set aside their conflict to face a greater threat.
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Apr 16, 2024 00:18
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Mordiceius posted:PROGRESS! I'm very interested to see what you have to say about these parts when you finish OathBringer.
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Apr 16, 2024 00:29
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I have finished Rhythm of War and I can now talk all Stormlight Spoilers! Praise the Stormfather!
Now I will burn through Mistborn Era 2 (With SH), The Sunlit Man, Tress, and finally Arcanum. E: I also just now read the Prologue to Stormlight 5. What in the actual Damnation was Gaviliar actually up to.... I am glad he died.  I found this wild theory in the comments underneath the Prologue video. I have to agree. A Sneaker Broker fucked around with this message at 04:06 on Apr 16, 2024 |
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Apr 16, 2024 03:40
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Mordiceius posted:PROGRESS! Some of your questions/confusions are certainly RAFO material, but I will answer what's not a spoiler: So you read Arcanum Unbounded, which means I can talk a bit about this. The Fused can "respawn" when they die, yes. And they do this on Damnation/the Torture Realm. Arcanum Unbounded gave you the proper name of that planet, it's Braize. And AU also told you that Braize is the world where Odium resides. Where Odium is trapped, really. So it's reasonable to assume the Fused respawn where Odium is. And the Stormfather lays it out pretty directly how the Oathpact works to keep the Fused on Braize/Damnation: Stormfather posted:THEY GAVE THEMSELVES UP. AS ODIUM IS SEALED BY THE POWERS OF HONOR AND CULTIVATION, YOUR HERALDS SEALED THE SPREN OF THE DEAD INTO THE PLACE YOU CALL DAMNATION. THE HERALDS WENT TO HONOR, AND HE GAVE THEM THIS RIGHT, THIS OATH. So Honor granted the Heralds the power to trap the Fused on Braize. By the simple act of being on Braize, they could prevent the Fused from returning to Roshar. And since the Heralds were basically immortal, Honor took that to mean that once the Heralds and the Fused were on Braize, it would be over. But if a Herald agreed to let the Fused pass, the Heralds and the Fused would return to Roshar. And so the Fused began to search for the Heralds, and then started torturing them once they had caught them. Because of their special bond, the Heralds could share the pain and withstand the torture for a while, but they began to break sooner and sooner, which is not surprising given their mental state. So yes, the Fused are trapped on Braize as long as there are Heralds to torture, but that's more or less an unintended consequence of the nature of the Oathpact. The Fused are trapped as long as the Heralds are on Braize. But since a Heralds breaking means the way back to Roshar is open, the Fused are obviously always torturing them. And the cycle would look like this: A Herald broke, they all returned to Roshar and had a bit of time to get everybody ready, and shortly after, the Fused began to arrive on Roshar, too. They fought until they killed most of the Fused, and all Heralds who died respawned on Braize like the dead Fused, while the living Heralds somehow also went back to Braize. That sealed the Fused until a Herald broke. Repeat for a very long time. But in the Last Desolation, only Talenel died. The one who had never broken. Honor had warned them that they all needed to return to Braize to keep the Oathpact intact, but they ignored the warning, fabricated some bullshit story about the war being won, and went their way, leaving Taln to be tortured for 4500 years. And it turns out, one Herald was indeed enough to keep the Oathpact intact for a long time. So to answer your four questions you're confused about : "If none of the Heralds have "died" and are in Torture Realm, how did they keep the Fused from respawning?" "How do the Heralds/Fused get teleported to Torture Realm?" There probably was never a Desolation where none of the Heralds died. And we don't know all the details, but killed Fused need to return to Braize and then go back to Roshar, a process that takes some unspecified amount of time. The Heralds method to get to Braize and back to Roshar is apparently faster. But we have zero information how they travel between the planets, neither for the Heralds nor for the Fused. So I guess a Desolation worked like this: The Heralds got the humans and the Knight Radiants organized, they killed most active Fused, and then the Heralds went back to Braize to seal the Fused there, while the KR killed the remaining Fused, including the few who managed to respawn before the Heralds went back. In the Last Desolation, Taln died, so he went back, while the others remained on Roshar. "Why do the Heralds have to stay in Torture Realm getting tortured?" Because the mere presence of the Heralds on Braize seals away the Fused, that's just how the Oathpact works. Getting tortured is incidental. "Why did the ancient listener souls become spren that can respawn?" RAFO
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Apr 16, 2024 04:26
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Sorry for the double post, I just wanted to avoid mixing up the spoilers and getting Mordiceius spoiled.A Sneaker Broker posted:I have finished Rhythm of War and I can now talk all Stormlight Spoilers! Praise the Stormfather! Yeah, the prologue of Stormlight 5 is absolutely crazy. And that theory is really popular among fandom, and would also fit quite nicely with some WoB: Namely, that Talenel never broke. Which would make Chanarach breaking after being sent back when Shallan killed her the obvious explanation. As for Rhythm of War:Taravangian must honor all agreements Odium made. Remember, spren and shards cannot break their words without harming themselves. Wheter Taravodium manages to find some loophole to exploit in the Contest of Champions agreement like the epilogue implied remains to be seen. Torrannor fucked around with this message at 05:04 on Apr 16, 2024 |
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Apr 16, 2024 04:29
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Torrannor posted:Yeah, the prologue of Stormlight 5 is absolutely craze. And that theory is really popular among fandom, and would also fit quite nicely with some WoB: Namely, that Talenel never broke. Which would make Chanarach breaking after being sent back when Shallan killed her the obvious explanation. Shallan, being the Daughter of a Herald, would explain so much as to why the Ghostbloods were so close to her and her family since the very beginning.
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Apr 16, 2024 04:54
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A Sneaker Broker posted:I found this wild theory in the comments That dude is just stealing our homework during our black box post-a-thons. We’re already like three layers beyond that already.
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Apr 16, 2024 05:00
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M_Gargantua posted:That dude is just stealing our homework during our black box post-a-thons. We’re already like three layers beyond that already. Well. I'm on the ground floor now that I've caught up. Where do I go to go deeper?
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Apr 16, 2024 05:13
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1) Keep reading 2) 
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Apr 16, 2024 05:17
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A Sneaker Broker posted:Well. I'm on the ground floor now that I've caught up. Where do I go to go deeper? Get really high and join the 17th Shard forums or discord to find out (dumb Stormlight future theory I don't personally subscribe to) no one physically interacts with the Davar brothers on screen because they're all illusions and "Shallan" has actually been Chana lightweaving her way through a breakdown about killing her daughter this whole time.
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Apr 16, 2024 06:01
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Ojjeorago posted:Get really high and join the 17th Shard forums or discord to find out (dumb Stormlight future theory I don't personally subscribe to) no one physically interacts with the Davar brothers on screen because they're all illusions and "Shallan" has actually been Chana lightweaving her way through a breakdown about killing her daughter this whole time. I am not ready for these theories.
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Apr 16, 2024 06:03
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Ojjeorago posted:Get really high and join the 17th Shard forums or discord to find out (dumb Stormlight future theory I don't personally subscribe to) no one physically interacts with the Davar brothers on screen because they're all illusions and "Shallan" has actually been Chana lightweaving her way through a breakdown about killing her daughter this whole time.
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Apr 16, 2024 06:08
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 No one ever said they had to be good or verifiable theories!
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Apr 16, 2024 06:18
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