|
So I read the Mistborn and Stormlight books and found them really good but the overarching mythos is kinda beyond me. Like, I gathered from the random snippets of dialogue between chapters that Odium used to just be some dude but nothing more than that. But apparently Odium is the same thing as Ruin and Preservation and there were a bunch of others, too. I've learned more from various posts online than these books which were really good but "self-contained" stories if you get my meaning. What do I need to read to learn about the Cosmere or whatnot? There's Arcanum Unbounded I found on Audible so that's good for me and my lovely eyesight. How about Warbreaker?
|
#
¿
Dec 28, 2018 19:41
|
|
|
|
| # ¿ May 13, 2024 05:01 |
|
|
Thanks everybody for the replies. Secret History comes out on Audible in January so I'm gonna snatch that and AU up.eke out posted:we also don't know who or what a lot of Shards are still, as there are 6 that remain completely unknown (apart from the occasional purposefully-obtuse hint from Brandon, like that one unknown shard's goal is to "hide and survive") I mean, he refused that power but he says that Odium would destroy the entire planet if he knew Wit was there. (I'm gonna keep calling him Wit.) So he is clearly still powerful in his own right, I guess? I've heard Wit's goal is to travel around and gather together a fore of various peoples from various worlds to fight Odium. Is that why he's feared or is it personal power? So the Lord-Ruler with a "sliver" of Ruin's power was moving around the planet and stars and stuff and Odium, a being far stronger than the LR, can destroy the planet if he really wanted to. So...why doesn't he?
|
|
#
¿
Dec 28, 2018 20:44
|
|
|
Thanks again everybody. One more quick question. Taravangian has been a favorite of mine ever since the reveal at the end of Way of Kings but it seems a lot of people say he's selling out to Odium. I was surprised to read this online after finishing Oathbringer since it's not at all my interpretation of what happened. It was very obvious to me that Transcendentally Brilliant Taravangian had foreseen Odium only appearing to him during his weakened state. Taravangain thinks this himself, I do believe. Furthermore, while he shows Odium most of the Diagram, he explicitly is grateful that Odium cannot see the part about Renarin. A theme of the books seemed to be that humans can break oaths but gods like Odium cannot. Taravangian can thus be pulling some giant ruse on Odium and not actually submitting to him.
|
|
#
¿
Dec 28, 2018 21:30
|
|
|
Rumda posted:Here's the thing the Lord Ruler didn't have a 'slither' of ruin, he had the Power of Preservation and was using to preserve Scadriel (albeit poorly at first) and was opposed by ruin at every turn. It was Preservation's power at the Well? My bad. I've only gone through the books once 'cuz they're kinda long. I should go through them again though.
|
|
#
¿
Dec 28, 2018 21:59
|
|
|
DarkHorse posted:Taravangian's inner monologue though makes it clear he'll sacrifice most of humanity so a little of it can be preserved, and is not trying to destroy Odium, just survive. While Cultivation may have some plans in that regard for him, Taravangian himself is totally willing to sell out. Why was he thankful to his past self about the Renarin part being hidden from Odium, then? Slanderer posted:Gotta avoid mixing up Brandon’s many S words: shards, splinters (spren snd seons, which are splinters too!) and slivers. Wait, when did Kelsier get that power? What book is that from?
|
|
#
¿
Dec 29, 2018 21:29
|
|
|
So I just had a totally random thought. Like I literally just woke up and thought it in spite of not reading any Sanderson for almost a year now. I'm not sure if it's completely obvious and I'm just super late to the party or if it's actually impossible and I'm remembering wrong. Was Marsh killing the other Inquisitors and helping to kill the Lord Ruler because of Ruin? Could he have only resisted like that because it benefited Ruin to finally have Rashek done away with? I used to just think, when I first read it, that he simply retained enough of his mind at first to fight back. But the Inquisitor's fanaticism does make a lot more sense if they're all being controlled. I would not become super loyal to the guy who did that to me. Also I always use audiobooks but they'e "normal" audiobooks. I first found audiobooks of TSA that were more dramatized or something and I didn't like those. NikkolasKing fucked around with this message at 23:31 on Aug 12, 2019 |
|
#
¿
Aug 12, 2019 21:37
|
|
|
His Divine Shadow posted:I got the impression Ruin had corrupted him, at least later on, and that was his "excuse" for being like he was (huge massive bastard). I had the exact same impression and I also rejected it. I can have some pity for him because I think it's good to have pity in our hearts for even the worst people but I think the story wanted us to have some level of gratitude or admiration for him and I simply do not accept that. But hey, Vin is a way better person than I am. Still my favorite main character in the Cosmere. I really need to reread the Mistborn trilogy again.
|
|
#
¿
Aug 13, 2019 09:50
|
|
|
I need to do a reread of all of TSA and also the second and third part of the Mistborn Trilogy. My memory is Hero of Ages and Oahtbringer were my favorite novels. And I haven't read anything besides all the Mistborn and TSA novels. I should probably do that. I have Arcanum Unbounded but I think there's more? Like the Edgedancer story somebody just quoted. Anyway, question: Can any of the poor sods who got the bad Shards be said to be evil? Like, apparently, Ruin used to be a swell guy but...well, he's Ruin. Odium was always a jerk but but what does it really matter? I was just thinking about Ruin and Odium and who is worse/more evil and then realized it's kind of a wrongheaded question. They don't have much choice in the matter.
|
|
#
¿
Feb 21, 2020 22:43
|
|
|
Taffer posted:Funny you should say this because I was just coming in to talk about this! I'm doing a re-read of Mistborn, and I'm really really shocked at how much poorer it fares on the second time through. I still enjoyed the first book a lot but the pacing and the characters felt a lot less engaging to me, but really what shocked me was book 2. I felt it dragged a bit my first time through but I overall enjoyed it, but now on my second time through.... Well I can't promise you how well you'll like Hero of Ages but I never liked the second book much, either. I was very impressed with The Final Empire (my first ever Sanderson novel), Well of Ascension was all meh and then I loved Hero of Ages. My criticisms are different from yours though, at least maybe in emphasis. This could be due to I'm a Vin stan and love romance stories. I got nothing against Elend but Vin is my favorite Sanderson protagonist to date. I looked at Book 2 and everything with Zane as a very typical romance trope. You got two characters (Vin and Elend) who are profoundly in love so you gotta introduce another character who puts tension in the relationship. It's always obvious the two mains who are in love won't be breaking up but it's an easy source of drama. Sanderson impressed me a lot with Book 1 by avoiding a cliche I expected. Vin's identify being revealed and then a lot of "did you really love me? How can I trust you?" He totally skipped that and I was happy. But Book 2 fully embraced a cliche I'm not a fan of and it didn't do it well, either. Also In "paranormal romances" you have extra element of being supernatural. Can somebody with superpowers love somebody who doesn't have superpowers? By their unique natures, aren't Vin and Zane more compatible? Elend can never understand Vin's position. (well....) There's also the very classic temptation towards evil or at least selfishness, which Zane represents. Vin proves herself good and altruistic which ultimately nearly kills everyone but I guess the whiplash works better where she is tempted by evil and selfishness and journeys dangerously close to it but then recoils and tries to do the right thing only to do the very wrong thing. But yeah I'm not looking forward to revisiting Well of Ascension. But I don't want to just skip it. I got a lot of free time anyway. I hope you like Hero of Ages. Be sure to report back on how you think it holds up. I only became a Sanderson fan in 2018 so I doubt my views will have changed too much on the books since I first read them. Sab669 posted:As far as other Cosmere works go, here's a list - Hey thanks! Glad Sanderson is so popular. These are all on Audible it looks like. And a lot of the short stories I need are already in AU which I have so cool. NikkolasKing fucked around with this message at 01:19 on Feb 22, 2020 |
|
#
¿
Feb 22, 2020 01:15
|
|
|
Taffer posted:Glad I'm not the only one. I'm in a similar boat as you, I only got into Sanderson in 2018 (or maybe late 2017), I burned through the Stormlight books then moved onto Warbreaker and Mistborn. I loved the hell out of Stormlight, and still do after a re-read and a half, they're some of my favorite books ever. I thought Warbreaker was okay, and mostly enjoyed Mistborn, but I'm surprised at how different my opinion of it has turned out to be in a re-read after such a relatively short amount of time. Wow, we're very much of one mind it seems. I also thought Shallan's identify crisis was the weakest and most tedious part of Oathbringer. I was never able to explain why but your explanation fits. I think Sanderson is quite good at presenting dynamic, three-dimensional characters. I like Vin because she isn't just a tomboy who kicks rear end. She also enjoys a lot of "girly" things. My favorite character in Mistborn Era 2 is Steris who has grown tremendously from how she started out. She's the picture of some prim and proper lady but there's so much more to her than that. She never stops being a prim and proper lady but that has itsown strength and badassery to it. He likes to switch things up and I greatly appreciate it. But yes, the worlbuilding is why I'm here. I love how detailed his magic systems are.
|
|
#
¿
Feb 22, 2020 15:56
|
|
|
I'm a nerd who likes to talk Power Levels. Are the Shards the strongest beings in the Cosmere? Harmony is afraid of whatever that red stuff is after all and he has two Shards. Which reminds me. Somebody said he's technically stronger than Odium due to having Ruin and Preservation. Yet hasn't Odium killed other Shard-bearers? Why didn't he take up their Shards? Is it because he knew it could potentially gently caress up his abilities like with how Ruin + Preservation made Sazed kinda impassive? I ask also about power levels because I recall the Stormfather - who is always presented as quite powerful and imposing - basically being reduced to a whimpering child when Odium appeared to Dalinar.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 6, 2020 01:47
|
|
|
Thanks for all the input everyone. I'm starting on my first reread of TSA. My first time through I had no Internet so this time I hope to maybe post my occasional thoughts and get help from the lore experts. In the meantime though, I've read only the big name modern fantasy stories like Harry Potter, A Song of Ice and Fire and now Sanderson's stuff. I mainly contrast the latter two since they're giant, dense brick tomes. I remember first reading The Final Empire and how the description of the Empire made it sound even worse than Westeros. But Sanderson's work is so much more optimistic than Martin's that I don't think, even at its worst, his worlds ever appears as bleak and hosed up as Martin's. But I feel like one similarity they have is, when talking of ASOIAF and TSA, is the gradual re-enchantment of the world. I think it was a common old fantasy trope that "the magic goes away." You see this in Tolkien with the world becoming more and more mundane with each Age. The Way of Kings and pretty much all of ASOIAF have this low fantasy stuff with lots of aristocratic politics taking center stage. So the story begins very mundane but gradually escalates with the fantastical reappearing and making everything that came before seem so small and insignificant. Cersei and Sadeas play their petty political games when dragons and gods are returning to an active role in the world. I think this is a very cool thing. I wonder what the deeper meaning (if any) of this is. This shift from the distant past being wondrous and the modern world being so...bland to saying that both the past and the present are wondrous.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 6, 2020 12:53
|
|
|
Man, Mistborn was so simple now I look back on it. That's not a criticism or compliment, just a statement of fact. I'm done with Part 2 of Way of Kings and I had totally forgotten so, so much from just this book alone. I don't even want to think about all the details from the next two TSA books that have completely slipped my mind. How does Sanderson remember all this stuff? Not only remember it, that's what we do and I guess that can be relatively easy. He's got plans for the future that he has to balance around remembering everything. It's insane.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 9, 2020 08:26
|
|
|
To me it was all the quotes at the start of each chapter. I don't know what they're called but they're in all the books and man are they super confusing the first time through. I understand them somewhat better now - I realize it's Hoid talking in the first few in Way of Kings but I had no idea who he was talking to until somebody elsewhere informed me - but several of their meanings still elude me.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 9, 2020 19:13
|
|
|
I'm very glad the Mistborn Trilogy was my introduction to Sandeson. I'm almost done with Way of Kings which will make it the second Sandeson book I've read twice, the first being The Final Empire. I won't pretend to recall everything about Mistborn perfectly but I think I forgot more things in Way of Kings than happened in all of TFE. I love that book and I like Way of Kings a lot but...man, it's night and day in terms of keeping track of characters, events, lore, powers, etc.. I gotta finish my reread the first three Mistborn books to see just how different they are in terms of information overload. Also Vin is still my fave protagonist. Her and Kelsier forever, even though I also deeply love Dalinar and Kaladin.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 10, 2020 15:32
|
|
|
It would be impossible for a Radiant to make use of the Thrill, right? The powers just seem incompatible on an ideal level. You can't put Life Before Death when you also are consumed by the hunger for death.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 11, 2020 10:25
|
|
|
I have yet to see a good adaptation of a fantasy book. From Harry Potter to A Song of Ice and Fire to now this disastrous Artemis Fowl adaptation, all have been garbage. I came to the conclusion that fantasy books should not be adapted years ago when I read The Silmarillion as I contemplated how it would be totally ruined . I don't know why people are so obsessed with "well if the book is good it needs a movie or TV show." NikkolasKing fucked around with this message at 14:25 on Mar 12, 2020 |
|
#
¿
Mar 12, 2020 14:21
|
|
|
Cicero posted:Eh, I liked both the Harry Potter and Lord of the Rings movies (though I never read either series). If you stretch the definition of 'book', Fullmetal Alchemist: Brotherhood was really good, so was Mob Psycho 100. I don't think manga to anime is comparable to novel to film. Since LOTR was mentioned, I don't blame them for killing all nuance in the narrative to focus more on character development. The novels were not about character development. Gandalf's death got a couple lines in Fellowship about how Frodo and the others were crying and then we move on. In the movie it's all dramatic and slow mo and all the rest of it. It's impossible to tell the same story in the same way in a movie based on a book. And that's why you just don't make adaptations. You have to turn Elrond into a bitter old man or Aragorn into a reluctant hero afraid of his destiny or Denethor into a gross pig or.... They have to inject a lot of stuff into LOTR to make it more compelling for cinema. Mistborn isn't LOTR of course. Sanderson is as much about character development as he is about themes and worldbuilding. But I still think my point stands that adaptations can never be the same as the novels and that's just an inevitable part of books and movies being wildly different mediums.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 12, 2020 15:04
|
|
|
Daric posted:The point of an adaptation is to create more fans who wouldn’t normally read the books. How many more people do you think read Harry Potter after seeing the movies? I agree that spreading awareness of good books is awesome but we're talking Harry Potter, Lord of the Rings and Brandon Sandeson here. These are not unknown quantities. I know HP was a phenomenon long before the movies happened and I read Sanderson after years of hearing people sing his praises on forums. I mean, I'm not campaigning to stop him or anything. I just don't understand why famous books have to be adapted when it so often turns out bad. It seems like a cheap grab for money. But I guess if it results in more people reading Mistborn, that is good.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 12, 2020 15:19
|
|
|
I know I've mentioned this a couple times now but it really does strike me as the biggest difference between ASOIAF and TSA is just how idealistic the latter is. Martin is not as grimderp as some say but his story is one of relentless failure and misery for our poor heroes. There are bright points but they feel so few and far between. It's why, even though The Final Empire (my first Sanderson novel) starts off more hosed up than anything in Westeros, Mistborn never felt to me like it was half as depressing as ASOIAF. As it pertains to Stormlight Archive though, Shallan's convincing the deserters to be better men and her relationship with Tyn really stand out to me. Tyn talks about making hard choices, about being broken. She's clearly not a happy person. And that's the key - justice is vital component of happy and fulfilling life in this setting. Wealth and power and even excitement are no substitute. There is is not a single happy unjust person in this setting that I can think of. Even Sadeas, when we get his perspective, is doing all of this because he's afraid of death, of his failing body, He's not happy scheming and plotting.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 13, 2020 11:38
|
|
|
Also I was wondering about what Odium's Shard was and if it was actually Hatred or just Passion since Odium himself invokes that a lot in Oathbringer. I figured he's just like a Chaos God or Sith Lord and only channels the darkest of emotions. But I then found this from Sanderson himself explicitly saying Odium's Shard was Hatred: https://www.reddit.com/r/Stormlight_Archive/comments/bvbdsr/odium_or_passion/epnmbqc?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x But Rayse's perception did have some effect on it. Spoilers for Book 2 and 3 and the new reader posting in here Anyway, as idealistic as I am feeling lately, I have a hard time mustering up any real arguments against Graves. Oh believe me, I was very sad and angry when he did finally die in the next book but that's a long ways away. A lot happens between Kaladin's meeting in the bar and Elhokar's final fate. Up until this point, Elhokar has been a drunken buffoon. Graves compares Elhokar to a festering hand but in a monarchy it's more like a rot at the heart of the body or the brain. A bad king is the doom of nations. What reason is there to keep Elhokar alive? He dies anyway and everyone will be fine.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 14, 2020 14:43
|
|
|
And now going back to ASOIAF comparisons, I sometimes saw in the ASOIAF fandom a disgusting dismissal of Tyrion's suffering. Sure his father was a monster who had the love of his life raped in front of him and his sister was physically abusing him since his birth but he was rich and part of a powerful House so that made it less terrible somehow. I wonder if people do the same with Shallan? I'm at the part where she's with Kaladin in the chasms and given people tend towards dichotomous thinking, I wonder if some people think she had it "better" than Kaladin did. The problem is that even in a stratified society, those at the top aren't really better off. To be a child in a Noble house is like child abuse. Even to this day symbolic monarchs and their family are horribly mistreated by their handlers. Shallan and Tyron faced a burden equal to anyone else's and their station didn't lessen it.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 15, 2020 14:10
|
|
|
Slanderer posted:Uhhh ok I'm just trying to get a feel for the fanbase. What characters people like or don't like and why.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 15, 2020 16:03
|
|
|
Subvisual Haze posted:It's a hard thing to comment on until you've finished Oathbringer. Generally it seems like most characters are universally loved except perhaps Shallan whose character and role in the story seems to change dramatically in each book. I've read all three books already, I'm just doing a reread. Shallan's arc in Oathbringer was tedious but I am liking her role in WoR more this time around. I might change my views on her in the next book after a reread as well. New Yorp New Yorp posted:I think you will find a lot less grey areas in Sanderson's works. He writes fantasy much more similarly to Tolkien or Jordan than to Martin or Abercrombie; the Good Guys are good, the Bad Guys are bad, and the Antiheroes are Antiheroic. That makes sense. I don't know if having more clear-cut good and bad guys makes characters more or less popular, though. I guess in a series like TSA you won't find people defending Sadeas the way you occasionally find people defending Tywin in the ASOIAF fandom. Seems like everyone is in agreement that Dalinar is the best. I fully endorse that view.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 15, 2020 17:09
|
|
|
Why didn't Ruin or Preservation make their own Spren on Scadrial? Also, if I'm remembering the revelations from Well of Ascension right, even an imprisoned Ruin could alter text and the like. Odium never makes use of this ability that I know of. Why not? I finished my reread of TSA. Oathbringer was still fuckin' awesome but it made me want to reread Mistborn now as well so I'm doing my third read of TFE but I intend to also follow through with a second read of WOA and HOA.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 28, 2020 07:05
|
|
|
Subvisual Haze posted:Spren are chunks of divine power that gain their own sentience either by design or if left alone for long enough. A shard can choose to purposefully make their own spren, or the spren can form on their own if chunks of the shard's power have been broken off (the little light ball things in Elantris). It's unclear if Honor's spren or Odium's spren+unmade are voluntary creations or involuntary ones resulting from their struggles and mutual wounding or maybe a mix of both. I had no idea Braize was an actual planet. I wondered what exactly Damnation was but I just figured it was some hell dimension Odium created. This all makes sense but the earlier post talking about how different Shards having different and unique abilities also made sense to me. I can't remember but when the Lord Ruler took the god power for a minute, did it come from Ruin or Preservation? The wiki says it was Preservation and " quote:Afterward, Rashek took up the power in the Well to prevent the release of Ruin, and used it to reshape the world of Scadrial in an attempt to get rid of the mists. He was not very delicate with the power, starting with moving the world too close to the sun and having to make constant adjustments to compensate.[9] Preservation's intent can be seen here, as he could not destroy, only change This doesn't make any sense to me. The Lord-Ruler created a world constantly on the brink of destruction. I distinctly remember Ruin is very happy with the Scadrial Rashek made. That's why I thought he must have gotten his power from Ruin because he made a world of constant death and misery and, getting back to the ideas Shards have unique abilities, he couldn't have done otherwise. The Final Empire and Scadrial endures because of the Lord-Ruler himself being a font of unequaled power. Everything else is a malformed mess that is slowly collapsing. NikkolasKing fucked around with this message at 00:09 on Mar 30, 2020 |
|
#
¿
Mar 30, 2020 00:06
|
|
|
I just finished my third read of The Final Empire. I had no idea there is a not-insubstantilal amount of the fandom that seemsto view Kelsier as some sort of sociopath who is just doing all this because he hates the Lord-Ruler. Apparently some of this is due to Secret History where he won't answer Vin asking him about how much of this was for him or the Skaa. To me, that in itself can be a mark of his humility. What, do you think if he said "I did it all for the people!!!" that would be taken as the unbiased truth instead of egotistical boasting and "virtue signaling"? We see time and time again how the suffering he witnesses gets to him deeply. The others were ready to pack it up and go home after the army was destroyed but Kelsier was the one who made them stay and keep fighting as they watched all the random executions. His last words to Vin were about how she needed to understand friendship demanded a certain level of reckless loyalty where you are willing to rush into impossible situations for your friends. (This bugged me a lot since I love their relationship and it made me feel weird that his last line to her was a reprimand.) No doubt the novel makes it clear he isn't Jesus. He has a paternalistic view of the Skaa but why not? He's smarter and stronger than any of them and he is indeed taking a fatherly role in leading them to freedom. He isn't among equals, he's among the people who he needs to follow him to freedom. But being a natural born leader doesn't make you a bad person. His core motivation is on display all throughout The Final Empire and it's seeing how much innocent people are being victimized. I would say his changing attitude on the nobility also speaks well of his more virtuous character as opposed to blind revenge. He saved Elend when he had no reason to other than the fact Vin loses him. He also amended his plan to have Vin murder the Noble Houses.
|
|
#
¿
Apr 3, 2020 04:24
|
|
|
Taffer posted:Yikes. I think you're revealing your own paternalistic view of lower class people here. There is no reason to consider him smarter than anyone else in the society, and any advantage he has in strength or wealth comes from generational privilege, not himself. You're making a distinction that doesn't refute the point. No doubt Kelsier knows more because of his privilege. That doesn't mean he isn't smarter than the Skaa, it just explains why he's smarter than them. A wealthy kid who goes to Harvard is smarter than some poor black kid who was raised in a lead paint-filled house. That is a tragedy and unjust but it's also the truth. It's why poverty is so insidious, it can literally damages your brain and empathy and thus keeps you perpetually at the bottom of society. All things being equal, most Skaa could be just as smart as Kelsier. But obviously all things are not equal and it's just patently false to say an average skaa worker is as smart as Kelsier. They've never had the opportunity to learn like he has. That was another part of Kelsier's plan. The crew were to lead the new government because they have vital skills and experience none of the other skaa do. quote:Kinda ironic too, considering his whole plan and everything he set in motion actually just made things worse. He was just being manipulated by ruin just like everyone else, there was nothing special or brilliant about his plans. I mean, it was the first skaa rebellion to ever work and that seems more due to the Mists empowering Vin than Ruin helping Kelsier. NikkolasKing fucked around with this message at 05:08 on Apr 3, 2020 |
|
#
¿
Apr 3, 2020 05:06
|
|
|
Tunzie posted:Sanderson himself said he thinks Kelsier would be a villain in another story: https://wob.coppermind.net/events/31/#e9702 Isn't that comparison a bit faulty? Kaladin's "darkness" is better described as depression. It's the total opposite of Kelsier in that Kaladin cares far too much about everyone and everything to really function in a setting that demands he kill and fight. He has to delude himself into thinking it's Us vs. Them which is very different from Kelsier who genuinely believes in Us vs. Them. Like most of the rest of the crew, by the way, at least in TFE.
|
|
#
¿
Apr 3, 2020 06:02
|
|
|
Torrannor posted:Since Kelsier's story is obviously not over, we will see how he behaves when he's facing different circumstances. It's one of the reasons why I would have preferred getting Lost Metal before Rythm of War, since I guess Kelsier will actually be much more involved in that story. We'll see whether he stays on the side of "good" going forward. I really need to read Arcanum Unbounded. I bought it a year ago but just never got around to it. Maybe afte rI finish going through Mistborn again. And as long as we're diagnosing our heroes with real mental disorders, does Kaladin actually have like clinical depression? I got the feeling there was significnatly more wrong with him than Kelsier insofar as Kaladin can barely function a good deal of teh time.
|
|
#
¿
Apr 3, 2020 06:26
|
|
|
Tunicate posted:If we are talking about alternate takes, Moash's arc so far would absolutely make him the hero if he were the protagonist. The only reason the Alethi nobility seems heroic is that they get all the PoV time. Sanderson is very big on seeing people as individuals and respecting individual dignity. It's why I'm surprised this forum of all places is so hostile to Kelsier killing some nobles and not feeling bad about it. (even though his position on the nobility did change as seen by him rescuing Elend and also changing his plans for Vin so she didn't have to murder nobles) This forum which is littered with guillotine memes. But Sanderson has no interest in that. However righteous you are, if you hate a group of people, you are absolutely in the wrong. That has been absolutely true for both TSA and Mistborn in my experience and I would assume it holds true for his other works. A big difference between ASOIAF and Sanderson's everything in my experience is Sanderson wears his morality so much more on his sleeve than Martin. I couldn't tell you who Martin was rooting for or what type of ethical system he held. Sanderson? It's like BioWare levels of "this is what you ought to believe." NikkolasKing fucked around with this message at 01:23 on Apr 4, 2020 |
|
#
¿
Apr 4, 2020 01:20
|
|
|
Tunicate posted:I mean, Elhokar hated the parshendi enough that he genocided them, and he gets a narrative pass Hm. I don't know if I agree with that. He launched a justified war against them but then lost all control of the situation. The fight with the Parshendi became all about the gemheart game. I think it's made clear that Elhokar had no real power and nobody really listened to him in the books. Also remember, in one of the first battles on the Plains, Sadeas murdered Parshendi who tried to surrender. Apparently none of the other High Princes knew about this but it convinced the Parshendi that quarter was not an option with any of them. I think, honestly, that Elhokar was too stupid and powerless to really be blamed for the Parshendi being wiped out. I don't think he cares about them at all by the time of the books.
|
|
#
¿
Apr 4, 2020 15:11
|
|
|
Tunicate posted:There's a flashback in Oathbringer right after Gavilar's death, where Elhokar sets the goal of the war - and it's to wipe out the parshendi race. When he loses control of his highprinces, it's because they became less interested in slaughtering for vengeance, and more interested in slaughtering for valuable gems Is that really the real life inspiration for the Alethi? I'm not that great with history in this are. I figured the Azish are supposed to be Chinese but that's all I got. Reminds me a bit of when I first read ASOIAF and people had to explain the real life basis for most of the cultures in the setting. I don't have a clue what inspired the various societies we see in Roshar.
|
|
#
¿
Apr 5, 2020 14:52
|
|
|
Anshu posted:So I recently discovered Sanderson's work, starting with Skyward, and I've just finished Bands of Mourning. What should I read next? I take it you read all currently released Mistborn books? I might suggest Arcanum Unbounded since it contains some important side stories that elaborate on other things happening in the setting. After that, The Stormlight Archive seems the natural choice. It's his masterwork from all I've heard from more long time fans than me. A minor comment, though. A big difference between Mistborn and TSA that I noticed in my current reread is the latter is much, much less gritty. TSA might be compared to A Song of Ice and Fire more but Mistborn is much more like ASOIAF in the levels of violence and rape. You won't see stuff like this in TSA: quote:Interesting, Vin thought, picking her way through shattered furniture, stepping clear of blood pools, making her way to Kelsier’s side. He crouched beside a pair of corpses. One, Vin noticed in a moment of shock, had been Ulef. The boy’s face was contorted and pained, the front of his chest a mass of broken bones and ripped flesh—as if someone had forcibly torn the rib cage apart with his hands. Vin shivered, looking away. Stormlight Archive is a bit like ASOIAF in that it starts as a "low" fantasy setting but the magic steadily comes back. But things are never as dark as they were in Mistborn if that matters to you at all. There's also a helluva lot more going on. There is so much to remember, more than happened in the entire Mistborn Trilogy. NikkolasKing fucked around with this message at 03:41 on Apr 8, 2020 |
|
#
¿
Apr 7, 2020 09:59
|
|
|
Speaking of the Lord Ruler, if I have one criticism of Hero of Ages - which is possibly my favorite Sanderson novel - it is how I feel it whitewashed the Lord Ruler. I just got passed this part for instance: "Fortunately, Cett," Elend said with a raised eyebrow, "the Lord Ruler has proven more altruistic than we might have expected." "Not something I ever thought I'd hear,"Ham noted. "He was emperor," Elend said. "We may not have liked his rule, but I can understand him somewhat. He wasn't spiteful—he wasn't even evil, exactly. He just . . . got carried away." There are all kinds of brutal utilitarian scenarios you can conceive of for Rashek to use to fight Ruin and preserve humanity. But The Final Empire makes Nazi Germany appear efficient and caring. Rashek was always a racist shithead and also became a murderer. His flaws, like his power, were magnified a hundredfold and the result is the Final Empire which was not "what needed to be done' but what Rashek wanted to be done. In the end, Mistborn seems to say times of crises demand compromising certain ideals. But Rashek didn't compromise like Elend did, he was always a bad person and his power made him even worse. Yet HoA wants us to praise his helpfulness? This is not a case of a bad person who did good, it's a case of a bad person who did everything wrong except for 1 or 2 things. NikkolasKing fucked around with this message at 11:32 on Apr 8, 2020 |
|
#
¿
Apr 8, 2020 11:29
|
|
|
I know some people speculate Hoid might end up being a villain but it seems to me, as I finish Mistborn, that he was the only good one of the group that killed the God and split it up. They were all arrogant fools who thought that it be a grand idea to combine a limited concept with unfathomable power I brought up Sprenn and DA Spirits earlier on but Shards are even worse. What do you think will happen when your entire being is nothing but Hatred or Ruin? Even Harmony, a combination of Preservation and Ruin, is impotent and doubly bound. There is no way for a human to wield a Shard correctly because it's a goddam shard, a piece, a fragment, a thing that is incomplete and flawed. No, I don't know how Hoid's powers work or if it's explained anywhere. He seems to indicate he has no control over some of said powers. But he still seems like the only smart one of the original group. I don't think the guy who comforted Shallan can be some monster. Also why did Vin avoid talking to Hoid in Hero of Ages? She sensed something bad might happen and ducked away and it's never clarified what she sensed.
|
|
#
¿
Apr 11, 2020 18:40
|
|
|
Speaking of Hemalurgy, it seems to me a clear example of an intrinsically evil power in the Cosmere. Hemalurgy can be used to steal Allomantic or Feruchemical powers and give them to another person. However, a Hemalurgic spike can also be created by killing a normal person, one who is neither an Allomancer nor a Feruchemist. In that case, the spike instead steals the very power of Preservation existing within the soul of the people. (The power that, in fact, gives all people sentience.) Originally, we assumed that a koloss was a combination of two people into one. That was wrong. Koloss are not the melding of two people, but five, as evidenced by the four spikes needed to make them. Not five bodies, of course, but five souls. In the real world we could argue no tool is really evil. We can conceive of good uses for guns and nuclear weapons and other things. But fantasy is obviously different. Evil is often a literal, metaphysical force in fiction so obviously anything it produces is evil. Ruin is not exactly the Devil but the power clearly was a corrupting, malignant force. With nothing to balance it, of course Ruin or Hatred lead to evil. I can't see any justification for ever using Hemalurgy for good. Yes, some good things came out of it but even in the story the kandra just don't like to acknowledge their life came from some poor person being murdered. And the Koloss and Inquisitors are nightmares made manifest. Furthermore, what about how the spikes trap "souls?" I totally forgot about that until this reread. Does that mean people fused into Koloss or Inquisitors never went on to the spiritual realm in death? Was their essence destroyed and they now have no afterlife? Or are they freed when the Hemalurgic creation dies? Are the people used to make Marsh even now still trapped in him? It seems to me anything to do with souls is indefensibly evil. It's like how Hell is completely ethically wrong. Nobody deserves eternal torture as an infinite punishment for a finite crime is repugnant. As such, Hemalurgy is definitely wrong if it does something to the soul as it's more than just hurting or killing the ephemeral physical body, it's damaging that eternal aspect of a person.
|
|
#
¿
Apr 12, 2020 12:09
|
|
|
Having thought a bit about it, I think I have to slightly readjust my Sanderson favorites. Oathbringer is still my favorite TSA novel but The Final Empire is now my favorite Mistborn novel. Kelsier and Vin are just the best and Elend is no substitute for me. I guess I would also say Vin's story feels the most compelling in this novel.
|
|
#
¿
Apr 19, 2020 07:20
|
|
|
Daric posted:The best Mistborn book is Alloy of Law, sorry your opinion is wrong. Taken this as being 100% serious, I got the impression the Mistborn Trilogy was much more popular than Era 2 stuff generally speaking? I enjoy the new stuff but definitely not as much as the original trilogy. To each their own, I just never met anybody before now who preferred the new books.
|
|
#
¿
Apr 20, 2020 02:42
|
|
|
|
| # ¿ May 13, 2024 05:01 |
|
|
Huh,I got much lower score than everyone else. Edgedancer: 46% Truthwatcher: 41% Windrunner: 37% Lightweaver: 35% Skybreaker: 18% Willshaper: 16% Stoneward: 9% Bondsmith: 1% Dustbringer: -8% Elsecaller: -8% I guess Edgedancer fits me as well as anything though. I am more like Lift than I'd like to admit. Emotion and zeal always trumps reason and planning. Although I'm actually pretty religious ("spiritual" be the better term, I suppose) which fits the order of old more than Lift.
|
|
#
¿
Jun 17, 2020 08:40
|
|