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I know it's super spergy but I get annoyed by when Rowling tried to really expand the Wizarding world with the Quidditch World cup. It'd be fine if she wasn't as specific as she was with the 100,000 spectators. From that you can extrapolate that the wizarding world must be much larger than previously hinted at. Romania and Ireland at least must have comparable magic populations to England. Also why is wizard geography dictated by muggle geography (the explanation is obviously to make it more accessible to the reader) but it's a bit funny that you have a whole community that at best thinks muggles are backward yokels but follow their geography despite the magical community predating most national boundaries. Rowling's focus on the UK while expanding the magical world also makes Voldemort come across as more of a local killer than a world wide threat. If he really was such a threat, wouldn't wizards from around the world be willing to help out? Are they too busy dealing with other dark wizards? Hogwarts seems to be either the best magic school in England or the only one - it seems that the size of the wizarding community in the UK would need more than one school + home schooled kids. but yeah, that's all super spergy poo poo that can be explained easily by Rowling not thinking things through to that extent and most people not caring. I recommend that you all read Magicians by Lev Grossman. It's a very similar concept to Harry Potter but treated in a much more adult fashion.
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Aug 14, 2010 12:25
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reflir posted:I actually like The Magicians better than the Harry Potter series. However, if Brakebills and Hogwarts existed in the same universe, Hogwarts would have no graduates. Now that you mention it, most students at hogwarts did seem exceedingly mediocre at magic. I suppose that's part of Rowling's criticism of standardized testing. But yeah, seriously. Magicians rocks not only for it being a more realistic Harry Potter but for satirizing Narnia too.
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Aug 15, 2010 00:12
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LooseChanj posted:I think this is a problem with any story involving magic in a modern setting. There just aren't a whole lot of normal everyday problems technology hasn't solved. I should test this theory by reading a Dresden novel or something. That's why Magicians was so good. It really dealt with the "welp, we're magicians now what?" Of course it's super spergy to really analyse Harry Potter. It's a little fun though. The whole standardized testing thing is a little off too. Of course it's because a lot of Rowling's readers take GCSEs and A-levels but is it really necessary for the wizarding world to have such bureaucratic oversight. Although that kind of sets up a nice theme of individual vs. society.
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Aug 15, 2010 12:01
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Seriously, posters in this thread if you haven't - read Magicians by Lev Grossman. Basically Harry Potter if it was real (ie. the students drink and gently caress like normal teenagers would) and set in a preppy New England boarding school.
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Aug 15, 2010 23:34
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Hobnob posted:Yep, that's the one. Also I wasn't expecting him to return, so when he did much later in the story it creeped me the gently caress out all over again. Especially with who he ended up being!
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Aug 16, 2010 18:47
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CaptainJuan posted:This book arrived from Amazon about two hours ago, and holy poo poo, it's really really good. Thank you for the suggestion! I'm glad you like it! I've started a reread. Does anyone think it's worth starting a Magicians thread?
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Aug 20, 2010 00:11
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My pet theory behind why a lot of people didn't like the camping at the end of book 7 is that Hogwarts itself was the character that everyone really liked - and deviating from that probably left a lot of people unfulfilled.
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Aug 23, 2010 11:32
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To me Harry Potter is so wildly successful because it taps into that base need that everyone wants to feel special - that they could be singled out from their humdrum life to be taken away to a secret underground society of magic and be known as one of the most important figures in their history. It's great textbook escapism.
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Aug 30, 2010 15:48
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Did Harry Potter serve as a tipping point for deranged shipping? I'm largely ignorant of that side of things (thankfully so it seems) but I can't really remember people being so vocal about fictional character's love lives before HP.
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Sep 2, 2010 15:25
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DarkCrawler posted:Still think that Prisoner of Azkaban is the best book. I think he was the Quidditch referee for the world cup. efb! I definitely think the first three books were stronger. I don't quite know how to explain it but I feel like she started writing the last four books to cater to the rabid juggernaut that the franchise became rather than what perhaps would have been best for the series.
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Sep 4, 2010 18:39
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Merope posted:I have a feeling she struggled to keep them as 'short' as they came out to be. Magic! Sometimes I almost wish that Harry Potter was more of a "Hogwarts" series with books being able to focus on other characters and just share the setting. Of course that sort of goosebumps/animorphs model is out of date.
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Sep 4, 2010 20:04
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Lyon posted:My only issue with the series is how terrible of a wizard Harry is. Hermione was a great wizard but Harry never really did anything that impressive. A lot of what he did do that was cool more or less plot forced. I think the message Rowling was going for was heart over head. That courage and whatnots were more important than book learning. I always got pretty annoyed how it just seems like every student at hogwarts is mediocre at best apart from a few exceptions. They don't even really seem to care about the responsibility of magic either.
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Sep 4, 2010 20:21
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I always found it strange that there was a house that was essentially evil and they just kept putting more evil people in it. Not to mention their common room is more like something out of a bond villain's lair than a place to chill and do homework
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Sep 5, 2010 00:24
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Well I mean despite some Slytherin defying the odds and being merely opportunistic rather than outright evil it's not like it's an environment that really fosters becoming good and noble.
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Sep 5, 2010 16:42
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Pththya-lyi posted:But the addendum from that link says that she apparently retconned that in a different interview: first child and son Fred could hilariously imply that he had a son and daughter called Fred. Yeah, you're 100% right about the Neville thing.
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Sep 7, 2010 00:39
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Decius posted:I never had the impression Neville grew up in a crappy household. Sure, his grandmother and the rest of the family were apparently quite strict and especially harsh when trying to get him to show some magical talent (his great-uncle holding him out of the window) and were seemingly disappointed that he didn't show his parent's abilities for a long time, but it didn't seem that they didn't love him or didn't care for him, especially once he found something he liked and was good in (Herbology and the plants he got from his relatives over the years). The invisibility cloak thing is a great point and probably shows that the whole Neville thing was something Rowling shoehorned in and wasn't really thinking about early on.
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Sep 7, 2010 13:40
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Paul.Power posted:e: For all the talk of "Why don't wizards have [X piece of muggle equipment]?", for some reason the thing that bugs me most is the lack of ball-point pens and A4 lined paper. Quills and ink pots and rolls of parchment: WHY. If not ballpoint pens how about even just fountain pens? A point of annoyance for me is how Rowling slavishly tries to replicate the British educational system with GSCE/A-levels and OWLS/NEWTS. Which sort of ties into my main frustration at how big the Ministry seems to be. Is it just me or are there only really only three career options for a wizard? Ministry, teach at Hogwarts, or the service industry? I know Rowling is probably trying to make a point about government bureaucracy but it just fits into the problem she seems to have with scale as the books progress.
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Sep 17, 2010 15:52
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It's kind of an interesting thing to think about - is if the magical skills of the wizarding community were generally declining. There certainly seems to be a gap between the upper tier wizards and what is learnt in Hogwarts. You also have lines like how most ministry wizards weren't capable of performing a shield charm. Which begs the question where do you go to learn more after Hogwarts? It's bizarre to have a culture where 17 year olds go into adult jobs straight after high school especially when the average lifetime hovers around the century mark. That might be Rowling's statement on higher education maybe? You'd certainly expect someone like Percy to do some kind of advanced learning but he goes straight into the ministry. You can even compare Hermoine who is this generation's smartest student at Hogwarts with someone like Snape at Hogwarts. All Hermione does is rote learning, but Snape as a student was intensely curious and developed his own spells and improved old potions recipes. Paragon8 fucked around with this message at 19:40 on Sep 17, 2010 |
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Sep 17, 2010 19:22
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Chaglby posted:I didn't exactly throw the book away in a fit of rage. The cardboard box just seems very out of place. It is no more complicated than that. And I obviously was getting tired of the series before that scene, I'm not sure why that is hard to understand. There are many small things (and big ones) that just don't work. Rowling just didn't put much thought into the world she built. Considering that there's no machinery or anything in the wizarding world - having cardboard existing seems to imply that there's a paper mill staffed by luckless hufflepuffs or house elves somewhere churning out chocolate frog cards and packaging for magical janitorial products.
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Sep 22, 2010 21:00
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Hijinks Ensue posted:Which is one of the most awesome yet sad-making things Hermione's ever done. It could have backfired and she might never have been able to modify them back. Hermione's relationship with the non-magic world would have been interesting to explore further. I mean Harry understandably had a reason to jump straight into the wizarding community without looking back. Hermione actually has loving and supportive parents, so it' s interesting how she would reconcile that with prevailing attitude in the wizarding world towards muggles.
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Sep 25, 2010 10:20
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She's going to remaster them in 3D
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Oct 1, 2010 14:16
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IRQ posted:I kind of hope she sticks to her guns and just leaves it where it is. I dunno, they do have a Harry Potter theme park now... You're right though, I don't think she's greedy but I do think she might be so in love with the world she created that she won't be able to resist picking at it some more down the line.
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Oct 2, 2010 12:25
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At best I could see Rowling allowing other authors to write novellas and publish the collection to raise money for charity or something.
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Oct 6, 2010 20:44
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IRQ posted:Because the people plugging it made it sound like Harry Potter, which it was not. At all. It's conceptually similar to Harry Potter, and written with an interesting perspective with regards to a magical education set in the contemporary world. As long as you read more than a few books a year, I don't think it's such a waste of time picking up The Magicians.
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Oct 16, 2010 19:11
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Slowpoke! posted:The Magicians is okay but really the only similarity is the premise: young(ish) kid doesn't feel at place in the world, learns he is a wizard/magician, gets whisked away to school for magic where he meets new people. That's why I think it's a neat book that's worth reading by a Harry Potter fan because one of the only similarities is the premise. You can see how a very similar concept is treated by two different authors with divergent intents. I do think the similarity isn't as much "fish out of water" which is a common trope as you say but the treatment of magical educational in the contemporary world. I think Grossman does a much better job with showing how magic exists in the 20th century than Harry Potter. Of course the intended audiences are very different. The Magicians isn't Harry Potter 2.0, but it is still a book that I think Harry Potter readers would get a kick out of or at least find it worthy of discussion.
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Oct 18, 2010 10:24
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M_Sinistrari posted:
I think it's this thread that I posted in or it could have been one of refiler's but I've sort of had the same thoughts you have. I think Rowling either intentionally or unintentionally has mirrored the decline of Britain or Western society in her books. Especially with things like the reliance of standardized testing in education and how bureaucracy is the worst thing ever. You had a lot of thinly veiled criticism at anti-terror legislation as well. I do think it's a huge flaw that Rowling made muggles so retarded in the eyes of the wizarding community. It's pretty shocking how quickly muggle born wizards are indoctrinated in that view point as well.
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Nov 20, 2010 21:11
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Blight posted:Anyone else wondering why Harry has no grandparents? Or at least why he never gave it a thought? I'm pretty sure (after reading the books several times) that they're never mentioned. Now that you bring it up it's quite interesting that there are very few cases in HP of grandparents or direct predecessors. Even the Weasleys don't mention grandparents - just a great aunt. In fact the only main character to have a grandparent mentioned and detailed in the novels is Voldemort Maybe Rowling didn't know her grandparents or they were assholes which subtly influenced her work?
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Feb 27, 2011 22:38
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IRQ posted:Neville lives with his grandma doesn't he? Knew I forgot someone. Parents/grandparents in YA seem to be handled weirdly in general. Everyone has a weird living situation.
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Feb 28, 2011 04:15
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ConfusedUs posted:A large part of me has always wondered why it's so bad to use the Imperius Curse on someone, controlling their actions temporarily, but modifying someone's memory permanently, which can entirely change a person, isn't just okay, but encouraged at many levels. There's a whole department at the Ministry dedicated to modifying memories, after all! It's the hypocrisy of the magic world. gently caress Elves, Hermione should have been campaigning for Muggle rights.
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Mar 10, 2011 14:12
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bitterandtwisted posted:Harry Potter and the Oldham East By-Election, by J. K. Rowling. Amazing. I wish JK Rowling would actually do something like this as a political pamphlet.
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Mar 21, 2011 10:35
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CaptainJuan posted:Yeah, there was a thread about that a few months ago. I think it's been archived. Very controversial amongst goons. (I liked it, fwiw) Yeah, it ended up having a really lively debate. For the most part it was a pretty good discussion.
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Mar 23, 2011 13:32
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coffin posted:I'm just showing up to say that I'm reading fanfiction for the first time in at least five years, and that it is terrible and it is all your fault. All of the people who recommended Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality should feel ashamed of themselves. First-year Harry is generally the most endearing of all the Harry Potters, and yet somehow the author has managed to turn him into the most insufferable, annoying character possible. Yeah, I kind of gave up on that when Draco and Harry as 11 year olds were talking about hypothetical rape.
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Apr 7, 2011 14:13
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coffin posted:The problem is that I'm the sort of person who can't just stop reading something in the middle of it. I've started this terrible journey, and now I must watch in vague disgust as the author shits on everything I love. I think it appeals to people who literally have aspergers. I seriously mean that. There is something wrong with people who like that fanfiction let alone the person who wrote it. It soldiered through it as well because I like finishing things, and it really is a special kind of terrible. Harry Potter is a sociopath. There is a scene where a now "badass" Quirrel who teaches "battle magic" gets Harry Potter to list ways to murder people with items in the room. And again, I have to repeat there is like a page of where Harry and Draco as 11 year olds discuss hypothetically raping Luna to prove some magical soda correct. It's really a bizarre self insert mary sue by someone with really weird issues.
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Apr 8, 2011 01:19
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haha, it's a special kind of meta to be fantasy casting dream authors to write harry potter fanfic. I think the worst part of fanfic is that it should really be confined to someone's imagination. Sharing that can be really way too much information. ESPECIALLY slash/fic which I've fortunately never really read. I can't imagine anyone who has read Rowling that hasn't entertained the notion of going to Hogwarts and thinking it'd be super cool - but unfortunately the internet almost encourages people to vomit out their twisted imaginations. It's especially awkward when people feel they have stronger ownership than the creator of the characters. I think most author's tend to fall in the "well if you're going to write, write your own poo poo" camp which I really support. Sadly the community around fanfiction encourages people to use retreads rather than really let loose with their own worlds and such. All that being said I'd read the poo poo out of a Harry Potter short story collection with guys like Gaiman, Mieville, and Pratchett contributing.
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Apr 8, 2011 21:13
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zachol posted:Personally I'm disappointed by the lack of good original character fic. Yeah, if you look at Star Wars novels - the better ones (relatively speaking) are the ones that use original characters. Unfortunately what sells in this day and age is familiarity. I think there's a goon webcomic called "The gunnerkrieg chronicles" that is a great example of taking something similar to the core concept of Harry Potter and actually turning it into something imaginative and original. The people who wouldn't be able to do that probably wouldn't be able to produce interesting stories anyway. I do think there's room to have your own imaginative stories in the Harry Potter universe but keep them to your imagination - it's like when you're a kid playing with action figures. It's fine to think of insane reasons why robocop is teaming up with gi joes to fight a terminator but to anyone else it is really dumb.
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Apr 8, 2011 22:10
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Epi Lepi posted:Who are you to tell someone what they can and can't post anonymously on the internet? Hell yeah 99% of fanfic is terrible terrible garbage, but kids love to write it and kids love to read it so who are you to stop it? I'm not stopping anyone from posting or reading it, I'm just saying it's dumb. There are plenty of people that do find enjoyment in dumb things though and that's fine. The 1% of fan fiction that is legitimately good is probably a waste of talent that could be better served generating original content. I do comfort food reading, I've reread books quite a bit. I certainly get emotionally invested in books and series but I don't like perpetuating them with mediocre shades that fan fiction tends to be. I'd much rather move on to a new and exciting book or series.
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Apr 8, 2011 23:30
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Crisco Kid posted:Original fiction isn't inherently better, we just never have to see the thousand godawful rejected manuscripts, only the professionally-edited winners. Unfortunately there's no such gatekeeper on the internet. You have to sift through a lot of crap to find that 1%, but it does exist, and the massive size of the Harry Potter fandom means their 1% is larger than most. I don't view it as a waste of talent so much as a love-letter to canon. For example, I like drawing and normally draw my own ideas, but sometimes it's fun to exchange dumb fanart with my friends because we really like this book/show/whatever. I assume fan writers are doing it for fun too, and I spent many a summer in my early teens being entertained by the results. Some media leaves me wanting more, even if it's somebody else's interpretation; now that I'm an adult I still wouldn't be adverse to reading fanfic if it was from a reliable recommendation source. See I think original fiction is inherently better because so much of fiction is about creating characters and settings so just using someone else's creations just skips out on a lot of the process. It is sad that hypothetically all things equal except setting and character a Harry Potter fanfic would get more attention than an original story. I mean sure a good Harry Potter fanfic probably beats a bad piece original fiction, but I don't think a good Harry Potter fanfic would ever beat a good piece of original fiction. I mean yeah, it's fine as a hobby and if you enjoy that community - there's nothing wrong with that. I just don't think it's an especially productive one if you actually care about writing as a "craft". It'd be great if people that wrote fanfic went on to write their own projects and maybe fanfic is a good way to get readers for original stuff but I'm worried that it just ends up like a deviantart circlejerk because the consumers of fanfic care more about Ron and Harry banging than quality. It is a weird thing how fanfic has become so incredibly accessible for people whereas actual original fiction pales in comparison.
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Apr 9, 2011 07:30
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THE HORSES rear end posted:I think fanfiction can be a good workout/starting point for writing your own original fiction. George Lucas read the works of Campbell and Frank Herbert's Dune, then wrote a script that was basically "Dune meets heroes' journey," then the script evolved into the Star Wars we all know and love. but I think the problem with that show the internet is - is that someone writing a fanfic will get infinitely more attention than someone pushing boundaries with writing original fiction and that would encourage you to keep going to the fanfiction well rather than strike out for originality. It's tempting for a lot of people to be safe. It's a hard break going from hundreds of "omg so awesome" comments on an average piece of fiction where Harry and Ron team up to save Obama than getting harshly criticized and forced to grow as a writer by actually soliciting opinions from people who care about the craft of writing. Don't get me wrong I'm not a rabid anti-fanfiction zealot. I'm just interested in how it exists in our framework of reading and writing. Our culture is really dependent on retreads and revisting concepts which I find interesting. Look at the amount of sequels and near copies that come out in movies, tv, and books. Not to mention you have something like the comic industry where they've been retreading stories and using the same characters and settings for decades with hundreds of different stories by dozens of different authors. I think the key difference with something like that is that that kind of property is knowingly shared by the creator/owner of that IP - overwhelmingly however authors frown upon fan fiction and are a little disturbed by it. I can't imagine the revulsion JK Rowling feels or would feel if she discovered how many pages there are written about Draco and Harry loving. I think this is a really interesting debate and might be suited to a new thread.
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Apr 9, 2011 23:27
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ShardPhoenix posted:It is better. I tried to reread Deathly Hallows recently and it was so poorly written I couldn't even get past chapter one. MoR on the other hand is one of the best things I've ever read (although it's certainly not perfect). No, I'm sorry but the Methods of Rationality fanfic is terrible borderline sociopathic wish fulfillment fantasy. I'm really sorry that you think it's the best thing you've ever read. Saying that only "typical self-loathing nerd-culture-cringing goons" would hate it is an odd way to deflect any criticism. I don't hate it at all, I just think it's awful. It's not because people don't like "nerd culture" or that they're "self loathing" it's that it is loving terrible. You have 11 year olds talking about hypothetical rape in a theoretical conversation that really really didn't need to use rape as a hypothetical. You have established characters that are similar in name only - why bother using them if they're essentially different characters with the same name? Why make Quirrel into some super wizard battle tactician or Dumbledore into a sputtering retard. It's basic stuff like this that makes it poorly written and bizarrely conceptualized. It's not that the idea of logic and rationality are "too real" or "too nerdy"
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Apr 10, 2011 15:12
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My big Harry Potter sperg is more with logistics than anything sciency.
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Apr 12, 2011 21:12
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