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Hieronymous Alloy
Jan 30, 2009


Why! Why!! Why must you refuse to accept that Dr. Hieronymous Alloy's Genetically Enhanced Cream Corn Is Superior to the Leading Brand on the Market!?!




Morbid Hound
The Wheel of Time is pretty much a perfect storm of everything going right. The author had years to prepare for the handover and had been amassing careful notes for a decade; his wife and manager of the estate had been his editor for the entire series and so knew intimately what he wanted with the handover; they lucked into a one in a thousand writer for the handover, who was good enough to do the job but not so famous already that he'd refuse it.

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Hieronymous Alloy
Jan 30, 2009


Why! Why!! Why must you refuse to accept that Dr. Hieronymous Alloy's Genetically Enhanced Cream Corn Is Superior to the Leading Brand on the Market!?!




Morbid Hound

MrFlibble posted:


The only problem I had with the dark lord in Harry Potter was that while JKR tried to say Riddle had a choice, everything she wrote made it seem he was born evil. Even if one wasn't completely wrong to put into a childrens book (I am not going to debate whether people are born evil, but either way it is not a message for a childrens book) You can't have it both ways.

The sad thing? So loving simple to avoid its criminal. Dumbledore meets Tom, who is independant but otherwise normal. No torture of little kids. Tom follows path into stronger magics, likes the power. Becomes wizard hitler.

I think Rowling was trying to create a parallel "lovely as hell childhood" to Harry's, and show that Voldemort reacted differently and made different choices. After all, Harry did a lot of things with magic that were "over the line" -- blowing up his aunt, etc.

Hieronymous Alloy
Jan 30, 2009


Why! Why!! Why must you refuse to accept that Dr. Hieronymous Alloy's Genetically Enhanced Cream Corn Is Superior to the Leading Brand on the Market!?!




Morbid Hound

thrawn527 posted:

So...this is a thing. Apparently J.K. Rowling told a reporter friend what one ending she almost used was, and he transcribed it from memory. It can be read here, and is far too long for me to include a quote here. But it is weird as hell.

I have no idea what happens to Voldemort here. He imbues his wand with the Dementor's kiss, then his (Vodlemort) parents show up, and the spell he casts rebounds off of Harry's scar and hits Voldemort? Who has begun growing younger and younger until he's a child? Then he and his parents turn into a statue?

Then it's the year 2130, a very old Harry Potter is headmaster, and it's his 150th birthday. He has a bird named Ginny, who is actually his wife Ginny who turned herself into a bird instead of getting older. (I'm not even going to get into how weird as poo poo that is) And he has a great, great grandson in the room with him who is playing with a chocolate frog. And I think his name is Tom. And Tom crushes his frog with sudden anger, which makes Harry realize that the world is about to darken for generations to come.

I...what? What the hell was all that? Granted, Rowling didn't actually write that out, so I guess the language itself would be different. But that is so drat weird it's hard to even know where to begin.

Of course, it might all be bullshit. Plus I think he missed things in his retelling, because why would Tom Riddle Sr. and his wife give a poo poo about Voldemort?

My guess is that Rowling both overstated how seriously that particular plotline was considered, and the reporter mis-told and mixed up his retelling as well.

The main interesting point from that seems to be that Rowling was willing to do drastic re-writes to her story, repeatedly. Which is probably a large part of why her final product was of such high quality.

Hieronymous Alloy
Jan 30, 2009


Why! Why!! Why must you refuse to accept that Dr. Hieronymous Alloy's Genetically Enhanced Cream Corn Is Superior to the Leading Brand on the Market!?!




Morbid Hound

ashez2ashes posted:

There's actually some really good information in the latest Prisoner of Azkhaban chapters of Pottermore. The following about werewolves from Rowling is pretty cracktastic: "One curious feature of the condition is that if two werewolves meet and mate at the full moon (a highly unlikely contingency which is known to have occurred only twice) the result of the mating will be wolf cubs which resemble true wolves in everything except their abnormally high intelligence. They are not more aggressive than normal wolves and do not single out humans for attack. Such a litter was once set free, under conditions of extreme secrecy, in the Forbidden Forest at Hogwarts, with the kind permission of Albus Dumbledore. The cubs grew into beautiful and unusually intelligent wolves and some of them live there still, which has given rise to the stories about ‘werewolves’ in the Forest – stories none of the teachers, or the gamekeeper, has done much to dispel because keeping students out of the Forest is, in their view, highly desirable".

As if being a werewolf isn't rough enough, some poor werewolf woman gave birth to a litter of cubs? drat...

D'awwww, magical puppies!

Hieronymous Alloy
Jan 30, 2009


Why! Why!! Why must you refuse to accept that Dr. Hieronymous Alloy's Genetically Enhanced Cream Corn Is Superior to the Leading Brand on the Market!?!




Morbid Hound

Wow. That . .could actually be pretty cool. It would be like a 1920's New York setting?

Hieronymous Alloy
Jan 30, 2009


Why! Why!! Why must you refuse to accept that Dr. Hieronymous Alloy's Genetically Enhanced Cream Corn Is Superior to the Leading Brand on the Market!?!




Morbid Hound

TheModernAmerican posted:

Anyway I've been devouring the series, putting my normal podcasting schedule out of whack as I've finished the first two books in one week but I've noticed that going through the first few chapters has been a chore, taking me the better part of two days of going through one to five minute chunks before moving on to something else.

There was no mystery as to why it was so hard, but it did finally answer the reason why I threw the book down as a kid and started reading Zelazny and Robert E Howard before I got out of elementary school. It's the Dursley's. Everything about them is so problematic and vividly triggering to my childhood of abuse that I end up in tears just trying to get through it. I don't understand how a children's book can have vivid and graphic destriptions of child abuse to open up each book. Granted I haven't been in the fandom but simply by existing in the culture I've heard more than my share of Potter discussion and I've never once heard anyone talk about how terrible and disgusting the portrayal of his adoptive family is. And the way Rowling describes it is so unfortunately vivid because the only times I've heard someone fictionalize abuse that well is from victims of it themselves, so my mind doesn't focus on the story, but of my own past and the theoretical past of Rowling's. But worst of all is how unnecessary it is, the place of the Dursley's in the story makes no sense if they’re supposed to make me hate muggles then why is the entire plot of the second book about how much Harry doesn’t hate muggles? If it’s supposed to be about how great it is that the wizarding world actually cares for Harry why do they send him back year after year to suffer at the hands of uncaring, evil people? If it’s supposed to emphasize how wonderful and magical Hogwarts is and how boring and bland the ordinary world is, why the gently caress would you even do that, that’s the most terrible, egregious way of showing the fact that real life is boring I’ve ever heard of. I, hand to God, can't make sense of it and need to discuss it with someone.


Hrm, good question.

I think it's a couple of different things.

Partly as was mentioned above it's that there's a tradition of horrible parents of victimized orphans in English literature, especially in Roald Dahl and Dickens, both of whom seem to have been really big influences on Rowling.

More importantly though there's a reason that authors like Rowling, Dickens, and Dahl start their stories like this, and I think it's that the books are escapist fantasy and escapist fantasy generally means an escape from something fairly horrible. Most people reading the story of Harry's life are going to 1) stop thinking about their own problems because Harry's are initially worse, and then 2) Harry gets a literally magical ticket away from all his problems! I, the escapism-seeking reader, may one day find my own fantastical ticket away from my problems too! Wouldn't that be nice! And then the rest of the story happens.

As to why he has to keep coming back, there are some in-narrative explanations for that later in the series. More to the point though I think Rowling wanted that "horrible life --> escape into magic" dynamic to happen in every book, since it's one of the engines that drives the fantasy. Just like Harry, you, the reader, get to escape from your horrible life into this magical fantasy. That type of explicit in-narrative labeling of the story as "ESCAPIST FANTASY HERE, LOOK HE LITERALLY ESCAPES" may seem redundant or unnecessary to readers who've read a lot of other modern fantasy, but it's part of why the books had such mainstream popular appeal. That fantasy of escape is the "hook" that brings you back.

Plus she's always careful to show the Dursleys getting comeuppance and Harry getting some appropriate degree of vengeance in every sequence, whether it's Vernon getting frightened out of his wits in the first book or whatever else. SO that's part of the fantasy too.

It's difficult to deal with and vivid because Rowling's a good writer and she's got a good eye for human character and she understands how neglect and abuse happens and so she writes it believably. If you're interested in fictional chronicles of child abuse, I'd recommend checking out David Copperfield as well.

Hieronymous Alloy fucked around with this message at 06:43 on Oct 27, 2014

Hieronymous Alloy
Jan 30, 2009


Why! Why!! Why must you refuse to accept that Dr. Hieronymous Alloy's Genetically Enhanced Cream Corn Is Superior to the Leading Brand on the Market!?!




Morbid Hound

Bad Wolf posted:

(and in my head was James Hacker.)

I think this was true for just about everyone, or at least everyone who's seen Yes Minister. I wouldn't be surprised at all if she was imagining Jim Hacker as she wrote.

Hieronymous Alloy
Jan 30, 2009


Why! Why!! Why must you refuse to accept that Dr. Hieronymous Alloy's Genetically Enhanced Cream Corn Is Superior to the Leading Brand on the Market!?!




Morbid Hound
Unfortunately mod stuff is kinda up in the air a bit this weekend due to the Halloween Shuffle but yeah, lemme ask please everyone knock off the child abuse discussion at least for now.

Hieronymous Alloy
Jan 30, 2009


Why! Why!! Why must you refuse to accept that Dr. Hieronymous Alloy's Genetically Enhanced Cream Corn Is Superior to the Leading Brand on the Market!?!




Morbid Hound

ArtIsResistance posted:

As a grown adult, can anyone share tips for stopping people from bullying you for reading a book for children?

Kindle.

Hieronymous Alloy
Jan 30, 2009


Why! Why!! Why must you refuse to accept that Dr. Hieronymous Alloy's Genetically Enhanced Cream Corn Is Superior to the Leading Brand on the Market!?!




Morbid Hound
Has Harry Potter ever really ended? In our hearts?

I should probably change the thread title at some point.

Hieronymous Alloy
Jan 30, 2009


Why! Why!! Why must you refuse to accept that Dr. Hieronymous Alloy's Genetically Enhanced Cream Corn Is Superior to the Leading Brand on the Market!?!




Morbid Hound
Make me some suggestions

Hieronymous Alloy
Jan 30, 2009


Why! Why!! Why must you refuse to accept that Dr. Hieronymous Alloy's Genetically Enhanced Cream Corn Is Superior to the Leading Brand on the Market!?!




Morbid Hound
It could be that wizards are just culturally slapdash and slack. Like not just British wizards but almost all wizards. After all if you could just wave a wand and get all your necessities provided for, why work all that hard?

Hieronymous Alloy
Jan 30, 2009


Why! Why!! Why must you refuse to accept that Dr. Hieronymous Alloy's Genetically Enhanced Cream Corn Is Superior to the Leading Brand on the Market!?!




Morbid Hound
On the bright side though permanent injuries are very rare and almost no magic-induced injury appears incurable, short of death.

Hieronymous Alloy
Jan 30, 2009


Why! Why!! Why must you refuse to accept that Dr. Hieronymous Alloy's Genetically Enhanced Cream Corn Is Superior to the Leading Brand on the Market!?!




Morbid Hound

Variant_Eris posted:

See Lockhart. And all those people who were murdered at the hands of magic. Dudley's pig tail had to be removed via a hospital, and if Muggles didn't have that kind of magic, he would've been screwed. And then there's Marietta Edgecomb and the Pimples of Sneak in book 5, And that's not to mention the Longbottom's Cruciatus-Curse induced insanity.

Giving schoolchildren a wand is begging for an apocalyptic event.

Yeah, basically it seems like magic can cure anything except death and insanity.

Hieronymous Alloy
Jan 30, 2009


Why! Why!! Why must you refuse to accept that Dr. Hieronymous Alloy's Genetically Enhanced Cream Corn Is Superior to the Leading Brand on the Market!?!




Morbid Hound

quote:

There’s a linguist’s saying about English speakers that we go to work in Latin and come home in Anglo-Saxon. Meaning that much of our professional language (words like office, supervisor, colleague — even computer and telephone) comes from the Latin-derived French. While the language of home (house, hearth, fire) comes to us from the German-derived Anglo-Saxon. To use Latin is to ally yourself with all of these powerful connotations at once: mystery, power, and formalism. Thus, it is interesting to note that the wizarding world falls into the same patterns of speech, with many lower-level hexes and household charms in English, such as Scourgify. It’s in the higher-order spells that one sees the shift to Latin and Latinate phrases: Expecto Patronum, Cave Inimicum, Fidelius, Expelliarmus, Finite Incantatem.

Rarest of all spell languages in the British wizarding world is Greek, which makes surprisingly few appearances. In pure form, there are only two Greek-based spells mentioned in all of the seven books: Anapeo and Episkey. The interesting thing to note is that both of these are spells with medical uses, which should not be surprising: in the ancient world, Greek was the language of physicians.




http://www.tor.com/blogs/2015/01/the-language-of-spellwork-in-harry-potter-jk-rowlings-incantations-hold-surprising-linguistic-depth

Hieronymous Alloy
Jan 30, 2009


Why! Why!! Why must you refuse to accept that Dr. Hieronymous Alloy's Genetically Enhanced Cream Corn Is Superior to the Leading Brand on the Market!?!




Morbid Hound

Bad Wolf posted:

I watched the movies (with the exception of Hallows) before I ever read the books, and all I can say is well done Alan Rickman. I would have absolutely hated the character of Snape if I had read the books first, but the guy made him entertaining. I remember reading somewhere that Rickman was also the only person who knew in advance what Snape's deal really was, since Rowling felt it was important enough for his portrayal. In contrast, my hate for Umbridge is unchanged between media.

Man was born to play the role. Well, that and everything else he's ever done, because he's always amazing, but yeah it's like Rowling wrote Snape with Rickman in mind. I've never seen him do a bad job but I can't imagine anyone else filling that role. One of those performances good enough to prevent future remakes because how could anyone ever compete?

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Hieronymous Alloy
Jan 30, 2009


Why! Why!! Why must you refuse to accept that Dr. Hieronymous Alloy's Genetically Enhanced Cream Corn Is Superior to the Leading Brand on the Market!?!




Morbid Hound

TheModernAmerican posted:

People hated the pope because he was forced into the Hitler Youth. Genuinely wanting to replace the British government with a wizard-run dictatorship in a violent coup should totally invalidate the fact that he was a cute kid. Normally I hate Nazi analogies because they are so cheap, but the Death Eaters wanted to kill or enslave every non-pureblood in the world, they actually wanted to do something with a Hitlerian level of violence, hatred, and scale. Snape wasn't a hero, he was the right hand man of the greatest evil to ever exist in the wizarding world.

Snape is Rowling's Gollum-equivalent. He's a bad person and a jackass but he exists for the narrative purpose of demonstrating that even horrible, evil people can sometimes do good things and you shouldn't just write them off completely.

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