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Echo Chamber posted:Alright, I'm going to mark this thread and attempt to follow it, even though the last one moved pretty quickly. Perhaps part of the problem that Legacy wasn't going anywhere? I was pretty into it for the first 30ish issues and then it started to feel repetitive and it lost a lot of its luster. That probably reduced sales a bit. Do you think it would be worth me reading the final 20? I almost don't want to get interested again only to run into a premature final issue. edit: nevermind. Question answered above.
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Aug 14, 2010 21:02
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Muppetjedi posted:Is this the book where Dooku tries to get Yoda to turn to the dark side, Yoda does for a fraction of a second and Dooku shits himself because he realises how evil a 900 year old master would be like? I'm not sure why they even pretend to have continuity at this point if they're just going to bulldoze everything. That article was pretty brutal. twice burned ice posted:Star Wars. Lol. Yeppp. 
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Aug 15, 2010 01:08
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Miketopus posted:Any idea why there's so much disassociation with Knights of the Old Republic 2? I thought it was better than the first in a lot of ways. The first is awesome, don't get me wrong, but the sequel is treated like some sort of malignant monster. I've never seen a single person say that they didn't like KOTOR 2. The only time the discussion ever veers into negative territory is when the incomplete ending and untapped potential are considered.
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Aug 15, 2010 18:12
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Esroc posted:While I'm definitely not entirely happy with everything the EU has given us. I accept all of it, even the bad. And enjoy it to a point. I don't want a Galaxy where everything is perfect. Did it piss me off when Jacen did a total 180 and became a massive dick? Of course. But I enjoyed being drawn into the story moreso because of my love for a character whom I never thought could have done that. I like knowing that characters have flaws, and react to changes in their universe. Even negative ones. I'm totally with you in theory. It's the manner in which many of the random or unconventional things happen that cause me (and I assume many people) to just throw up their hands. LotF spoilers I don't mind that Jacen became a Sith but I hated that he didn't do it because of trauma or resignation or an insight during his journeys but, rather, almost accidentally because he was basically tricked about the ramifications and realities and was taught that he would be able to deal with the dark side in a clinical and objective way. He was never that stupid as a teenager or adult until the plot demanded he be. So I agree that the overall notions of some of the things that happen that fans cry out about are actually pretty cool but it's often the way that they happen that cause problems.
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Aug 16, 2010 05:45
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Hazo posted:Imagine this: The butchering of Jacen's character is why even Kevin J. Anderson's Young Jedi Knights series is objectively better than LOTF. At least the YJK series was honest about what it was. I don't know if I would agree that the quality of writing is on par with LotF but the stories are appropriate and don't just oooooze with disdain for the readership. The way Jacen and the Mon Cal took over the government - a loophole in some forgotten document - is disdainful to the audience. Mara Jade not telling Luke that she was about to go try to hunt down Jacen and the subsequent attempts by her dead body to show that Jacen is a Sith were disdainful to the audience. Jacen's fall the dark side was so poorly thought out that it was disdainful to the audience. The Mandalorian side story made no sense and was disdainful to the audience and the series itself. Denning's attempts to counter Traviss' hack job was disdainful to the audience. Most of that stuff isn't even believable in the Star Wars universe and the rest is way too convenient to accept as part of the story. It's all noticeable when you view through the eyes of a cynic. I hate to say it, Esroc, because you seem like a good guy but: run. Run from these forums! You will be pointed to so many plot holes and problems in your beloved Star Wars EU that shame will replace adoration and your heart will wither into the little charred husk that the rest of us have. edit: NEW WRAITH SQUADRON BOOK! NOT ALL IS BLEAK!
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Aug 16, 2010 06:17
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draize_train posted:In the last thread, someone linked to a TFN thread with a ranking of all the EU novels. I've been unable to find it since, does anyone have a link handy? I like rankings. Here be rankings
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Aug 16, 2010 17:30
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DougieC posted:I really enjoyed SOTME when I read it (I was about 12). Rose-tinted memories? You're definitely viewing SOTME through rose tinted goggles. It's a very silly story. I also thought that Allegiance was rated too low. Should be a point higher. Same with the Darth Bane books. Overall, though, most of the list makes sense to me.
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Aug 16, 2010 18:09
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Pretend Squirrel posted:The last thread was always too big and intimidating for me to get into, but now that there's a new one, I'll join in. I'm a huge Star Wars geek. I speculate that many people, as you're probably about to see, have a personal dislike for Traviss that transcends and ignores the good writing that she has done. The Republic Commando books are some of my favorite Star Wars literature - action stories about small unit operations which ask moralistic questions that might face a soldier and his commanding officers. One of the greatest things is that the stories are self-contained and have very little of the George Lucas taint (ridiculous names, reminders that the prequels exist, attempts to give the prequel storyline some meaning and reason for having existed). Instead it's just guerilla and spec-ops warfare by soldiers who are slowly maturing and starting to ask questions of the world around them. Your enjoyment of Legacy of the Force is folly, though, and you are a horrible person for enjoying that series.
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Aug 17, 2010 00:50
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. I just want to be friends. Really!)
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Chairman Capone posted:Traviss things Well said. That should be added to the OP as a quick go-to explanation for why people hate her. Despite all of that the first three Republic Commando books are awesome and the common demerits people assign them are usually based on external factors such as those you've listed or based on her shoddy writing in her other Star Wars projects. There are so few good Star Wars books being released these days that I just can't imagine letting personal feelings about an author interfere with my enjoyment of a book. I especially can't sit by when I see people steering potential readers away from those books. Which is why I just preempted that whole process in the post you responded to.
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Aug 17, 2010 07:07
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SmokaDustbowl posted:Sorry dude. I guess kung fu styles really would gently caress up a magical universe of laser swords and muppets huh? I think he means that obviously choreographed dance sequences that server no purpose and provide no tension because neither character is going to defeat the other until the dance sequence ends are part of what is killing Star Wars. Watching that TOR trailer again just left me screaming in my head....WHY DO THEY LEAVE COVER TO GO ENGAGE IN HAND TO HAND COMBAT WITH LIGHTSABER-WIELDING SITH? It doesn't make any sense.
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Aug 18, 2010 00:32
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SmokaDustbowl posted:Oh, okay! I mean poo poo! Darth Vader just hit Obi Wan once and he disappeared! Totally lame. And man, all those space fighters just shooting around everywhere! In that clip you provided they are doing gymnastics tricks while their opponent carefully avoids hitting them and, instead, aims at various points so that their blows can be easily avoided. I'm just saying that Star Wars doesn't need more battles with both sides wearing indestructible plot armor. The death of Obi Wan was a pretty big shock to most people, I imagine, and his duel served the dual purpose of buying time/creating a distraction for his friends to escape while also becoming one with the force so that he could better guide Luke's development in the force. Compare that the the prequel lightsaber fights where none of the saber battles over the course of 2 3/4 films occurred for any reason until the end of RotS when Yoda and Obi Wan finally decided to kill some fuckers.
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Aug 18, 2010 00:45
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I grin uncontrollably almost anytime somebody mentions something specifically related to Allston's X-Wing novels. Those were really the best books.
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Aug 18, 2010 22:34
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Slantedfloors posted:Well, you probably should. Philosophical quandry: Is it better to be free and miserable or guided but secure + provided for?
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Aug 19, 2010 22:19
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Crowetron posted:It just wouldn't be Star Wars if we didn't also kind of hate it. "He beats me but I love him anyway because he can't control his anger sometimes...that's all." Did any of you ever play X-Wing vs. Tie Fighter on a network or on the internet? It was great solo but I feel like I probably missed out on the best part.
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Aug 23, 2010 21:16
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Mister_Eel posted:I know I'm a little late to the Empire at War hate party but once I had a fleet containing just the Executor. So I fly it over a rebel planet containing a single squadron of B-wings. "Well this should be easy, I'll just auto-calculate the battle instead of loading up the space battle". Well the single loving squadron of 3 B-wings destroyed the Executor, which by itself could launch something like 10 squadrons of TIEs and Interceptor, both of which should have kicked the poo poo out of the THREE MOTHER loving B-WINGS! I'm enjoying the mental image here.
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Aug 25, 2010 10:52
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Locutus Of Bored posted:Speaking of LotF, I found a paperback copy of Betrayal behind my bookcase this morning, but I have no memory of buying it. In addition to the first novel in the LotF series, it also contains two short stories by Karen Traviss about Darth Vader. I'm way too afraid to read them. "The natives seemed restless. Vader knew that their reaction wasn't due to his presence - Mandalorians were present. Vader shuddered." "Vader entered his meditation chamber, shaken. The Emperor's reprimands seemed gentle compared to his recent fight with Boba Fett." "Vader watched their war dance. Deep within his heart, though he would not admit it to any person, Vader felt a panging jealousy. Never had he seen such brotherhood." There you go. You probably just read something pretty close.
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Aug 28, 2010 07:00
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SeanBeansShako posted:To be fair here, there was an assload of forresty and fresh water lake stuff and some of the game actually took some visuals from those awful Ewok cartoons. So how similar in play was Galaxies to WoW? I don't think I've ever seen a screenshot of a group of players working together to kill a boss or a group of enemies. Thus I only know that the game was "fun" but I can't get an idea about how combat worked, how classes fit into combat or even what the goals of the game were.
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Sep 7, 2010 15:04
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deathsuxdontdie posted:The gameplay wasn't similar at all. The combat was originally just "everyone put on the heaviest armor you can afford to buy, group up with 20 other people, and do as much damage as possible before the krayt dragon killed EVERYONE in your group" or "be a teras kasi/fencer mix and kill anything in the game without taking damage" That's hilarious because it's literally what every single screen shot (not in space) I've ever seen consists of. So there was some 1 on 1 combat at least. Were there at least a bunch of places to go where you could like...piss off the local imperials and fight security or gank players in an opposite faction?
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Sep 7, 2010 15:15
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Pththya-lyi posted:I am sorry, but that point about Asohka is just not true. Yeah, a teen girl is annoying (I should know because I was one), but I'd rather put up with her than with a rabbit-thing who steps in poopy. I think his broader point was that there shouldn't be anything we have to "put up with" in a show that is meant for entertainment. Every time I try to watch the show I find myself flipping away at a commercial break because it's so full of cheesy poo poo. Not charming cheesy but Power Rangers cheesy. It's just hard to care about any of the characters or stories when the way they act and the things they say are constantly taking me out of the story. I admit this is a failing of mine for being unable to turn my brain off and just enjoy but...meh. Not a very good show for me, but I can see why people like it.
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Sep 23, 2010 07:03
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Shimrra Jamaane posted:It's not going to be pretty. Somehow I think the odds of the words "That's good enough" being said within the walls of ILM are better than 100%
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Sep 29, 2010 22:26
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Why would they kill Organa?
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Oct 3, 2010 21:41
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Shimrra Jamaane posted:Better question: Why wouldn't Palpatine kill Organa after he found out he was leading the Rebels with Leia in TFU? Real world answer: people who work at a video game studio put together a lazy story composed of flash bang bigger better badder! storytelling techniques. The projects sole purpose was to make money and they did not care about silly things like consistency or legitimacy. In-Universe answer: Perhaps Palps wanted the Rebellion to exist in order to vet out his potential enemies?
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Oct 3, 2010 21:49
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Kenshirou posted:Why not? They don't want any witnesses of what's going, let alone the fact that they literally just kill a Jedi in front of him. Appo also says "It's okay, let him go" so the other troopers obviously thought it would be necessary so it's not really a matter of why they would. If they kill the senator from one of the more prominent planets in the galaxy they're going to have a lot more political fallout than if they just spin the story of a Jedi uprising. Plus the clones aren't exactly cackling villains - they seemed to believed they were protecting the Republic. No reason for them to assassinate a senator. edit: Wingnut Ninja posted:I hadn't really thought about how Order 66 somewhat undermines the whole "clones are living, thinking people and the Jedi are monsters for using them as a slave army" argument. I mean, as clones, you'd expect them to be exactly like natural-born people, albeit with some rather extreme training, but EXECUTE ORDER 66 whoops nope they're essentially just sophisticated, squishy droids. No free will and programmable to do whatever you want. It's still an ethical minefield, but it moves them a lot closer to the "manufactured tool" end of the spectrum. If you view them as protectors of the Republic, raised and trained to trust the leadership of the Republic explicitly and to the exclusion of even their own perceptions, they become slightly less robot-like. It's really not much different from the way military forces in our world have done some things that, in retrospect, were heinous and inexplicable. Their orders from higher up make enough sense at the time that they follow through. Azzmo fucked around with this message at 22:02 on Oct 3, 2010 |
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Oct 3, 2010 21:58
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RocknRollaAyatollah posted:
They literally had her come out of nowhere (politically) at the end of LotF to take power. I don't even think there was a vote - it seemed like a "We should have Daala as Chief of State!" So it was basically one last gently caress you to the people who wasted their time reading LotF. It's also symptomatic of the reason I no longer read Star Wars books, that being a subtle contempt towards the readers and the franchise on the part of the authors.
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Oct 3, 2010 23:43
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Kenshirou posted:Are there any good books that take place during these time periods that aren't focused on Jedis? I think part of my inability to read any of that poo poo is because it always seems focused on Jedi and Sith. "These time periods" being post New Jedi Order? I stopped after LotF so I don't know if any of the stuff that's been released to continue the timeline has been good. Supposedly Millenium Falcon was ok.
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Oct 4, 2010 00:00
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Faerunner posted:Denning's Forgotten Realms books are at least readable. Is his Star Wars EU stuff THAT bad? He's perfectly readable. He was actually considered one of the better Star Wars authors after his first entry into the franchise. Unfortunately he went on to pen a three book series called The Dark Next Trilogy which contained some very uncomfortable plot lines and characters who didn't act like themselves. I consider it the point that the EU stopped being fun and started being about slogging through grandiose plot lines where the longstanding characters do what the plot demands when the plot demands it for the sake of extra pages. He then contributed three completely forgettable books to the nine book Legacy of the Force series. Again, the prose was readable but the things that happened were so unusual that it didn't seem like Star Wars much of the time. He was even more guilty of having the plot's needs dictate everybody's behavior in this series and, combined with a petulant Karen Traviss' three abortions, the series ended up completely inconsistent and unfocused. I guess it just comes down to his Star Wars books being no fun.
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Oct 4, 2010 18:44
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Chairman Capone posted:I actually thought that Star by Star was terrible. It has some good moments (Luke, Tsavong Lah, Nom Anor and Leia are well written, and the battle segments are good) but it's really clunkily written, way too long, focuses disproportionately on Dennin'g pet characters, and the Wayland mission makes absolutely no loving sense and just screams out "This is written to satisfy a Lucasfilm plot mandate." It's fair to dislike the book. The general consensus was that SbS was one of the better Star Wars books and it was the high point of the NJO up to that point. Part of the reason it was well liked was that Denning had a lot of the plot laid out for him already and he got do some major payoffs of plot lines that had been developing throughout the NJO, thus lending SbS an "epic" feel. It's only in retrospect that I see how marginal that book's plot was. As you said, the mission makes absolutely no sense since cloning doesn't work that way. The predictability of the enemy to act in the exact necessary manner for the heroes to get into position also came off as lazy writing. Despite all this, though, I really liked the characters and their interactions and the action scenes and still consider the book to be very enjoyable.
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Oct 5, 2010 04:07
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ScottyJSno posted:I was just reading the wookieepedia and found this... They were playing the odds. Since about a third of all things that happen in the entire galaxy happen on Tattooine it follows that the force was discovered there. Hyperspace engines were also invented there, as well as the first functional Republic and the highest calorie-per acre strain of grains. Tatooine also hosted the First Contact between humanity and an alien species and Mos Eisely was where the high-density metals that would be used in space ship hulls were first formulated.
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Oct 15, 2010 05:10
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SeanBeansShako posted:I heard he stuck Jar Jar and whole Gungan concept into TPM to please his adopted son. Said sons cameo was equally pointless in ROTS. I thought that scene was great. It worked as a time marker to note the conclusion of the operation in the temple and I thought it was pretty dramatic to see one of the last remaining Jedi - just a kid - being mopped up.
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Oct 16, 2010 01:45
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Nucleic Acids posted:It's really hard for me to want to go and reread his old Lando books when he's writing poo poo like this. Luckily you get to choose whether you care more about the story or the storyteller. I've always been at about a 100/0 story/storyteller ratio and so I can argue that the Republic Commando books were great while acknowledging Traviss' stupidity and later failures in the franchise. Just choose not to care about real world factors; sci fi books are supposed to be an escapist experience anyway.
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Oct 18, 2010 04:14
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RocknRollaAyatollah posted:Apparently he wielded his lightsaber like there were 10-20 there. It's still pretty ridiculous and the whole "oneness" thing. Is there a citation for which book it happened in in the Wiki article? I have no recollection of this. They do, later in the NJO, explore the definitions and understanding of the force and whether there even is a dark or a light side which might explain the "Oneness" thing. I wonder if you're referring to Anakin Solo, who in a heroic last stand found a higher plane of force use and used the poo poo out of it to the point that his cells burned up and he died while glowing brightly and killing everything in mega-hero-mode.
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Oct 23, 2010 14:02
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Ghost Town Perv posted:So what you're saying is that there isn't a fifth EU book that you ever read. He's explaining why he was in a coma for 10 years.
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Oct 24, 2010 08:08
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thrawn527 posted:Son of a bitch. You broken, pathetic bastard. (if the previews are good I'll see them in the theaters also  l)
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Oct 25, 2010 17:07
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Shimrra Jamaane posted:Let me tell you, I have wasted a lot of time reading a lot of crap to get where I am today. If all those awful EU books were declared non canon...oh god no. You're like the WoW guy whose thousands-of-hours-of-raiding gear becomes completely obsolete when they raise the level caps.
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Oct 26, 2010 01:19
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hollylolly posted:You could also explain it that baby Leia was Force sensitive and somehow imprinted the memory of Padme on her little baby brain. So, basically, magic. As a George Lucas George Lucas is mostly incapable of transposing actual human behavior onto his characters. On a literature note I've been reading through KW Jeter's old Bounty Hunter Trilogy and I've found it be be surprisingly readable. It's fun seeing things happening in the Star Wars galaxy that don't involve the same three characters. Even though it's far from great storytelling it's a Bantam book and those are always enjoyable for the lighthearted and silly stories.
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Nov 2, 2010 21:01
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The Geeky Star Wars Questions Megathread 3: Every New Page Makes Star Wars Dumber
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Nov 9, 2010 08:26
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What's your mom like?Doc Hawkins posted:She was very beautiful. Kind, but sad. Why are you asking me this? Wanna meet that mom.
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Nov 20, 2010 06:46
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Why are you guys still reading that tripe? Going through the spoilers makes the general plot seem significantly worse than a good chunk of the fan fiction I used to read. Are they dead loving serious with ANOTHER force using planetoid, a Cthulu analogue and actually continuing to write Daala as if she was the leader of the Alliance? That should have been retconned with an apologyto the readers in the book subsequent to the last LotF novel. What happened to you, EU? This must be what it's like to see your child grow up to be a meth head.
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Dec 8, 2010 11:05
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Rev. Bleech_ posted:Might I remind you that the most highly regarded and beloved piece of EU fiction culminated in Luke Skywalker battling a silent clone named Luuke Skywalker. It has always been pulp garbage, some of it was just slightly better pulp garbage than the rest. That wasn't meth use - perhaps just ill behavior by an otherwise adorable young child. To this day I find many of the older books to be a lot of fun and good for a reread. I think we can overlook a lot when the story is entertaining and an adventure occurs. Besides, if the name Luuke Skywalker was the stupidest thing in that series then it didn't do too poorly. Besides, as Fox of Stone said the X-Wing series is also frequently considered the best the EU has to offer. Even with the horse pilot. Because it's fun. Sentient, force-using planets and constantly bleak novels containing characters who no longer have the ability to communicate with one-another or remember things from earlier in the book and all this new stuff people are bringing up.....it's so lazy.
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Dec 9, 2010 06:55
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thrawn527 posted:Nope. I mean, there's some effort in some books to create New Alderaan, and Leia is occasionally mentioned as helping. But other than that minor plot line, no, nothing. (At least that I've read or seen.) Many of the Bantaam books have political opponents giving her grief about how she frequently brings up the destruction of Alderaan for sympathy and I vaguely recall her expressing that sentiment more than once in books, though the specific scenes aren't coming to mind. So it's definitely addressed in the EU.
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Dec 11, 2010 01:28
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