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LLJKSiLk posted:I think there was some sort of interview with George Lucas where he discussed the pacing and that the time Luke was on Dagobah was supposed to be months and not a matter of days like it appears in the movie. Oh yes, I'm sure it was months. What I'm saying is Mecha Gojira's explanation of Han and Leia traveling close to light speed caused time to go at a different rate for them is probably not involved. It's probably just that Han and Leia spent longer traveling to Bespin than we saw, most of the trip just wasn't shown.
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Nov 22, 2010 19:16
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Directorman posted:Yeah no one plays me around here, either Ha! I have the same one. I can't remember the Episode I questions, but I remember them being rather silly. I was also outlawed from playing with it. The only one I got "wrong" was a question about what color the controls on the Falcon were. I was confused, and just said gray. The answer was silver, and they counted me wrong. Since I had just gotten around 20 right, I didn't argue. As for the original question, no idea on a good Star Wars trivia game. If you find one, let me know, because I'd like one too.
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Dec 1, 2010 15:40
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^^^ Son of a bitch. Beaten. On both counts.Andorian Blues posted:I'm pretty sure at least one of the fan edits does this. One of the big fan edits (pretty sure it was "The Phantom Edit", but I may be wrong) adds some gibberish over his dialogue, and then uses subtitles. And the subtitles make him out to be a rather funny, not very annoying character. He sort of fits into the Han Solo role in the edit (not saying he's as good, but he's the skeptic with a bit of an ego). It really helped the movie more than I would have expected. They did the same for the Trade Federation dialogue, and made the embargo at the beginning about slavery. Which was also a big improvement, as it made the movie actually be about something.
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Dec 6, 2010 17:21
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EddieDean posted:I've been a Star Wars fan for ages, but never thought to ask: Nope. I mean, there's some effort in some books to create New Alderaan, and Leia is occasionally mentioned as helping. But other than that minor plot line, no, nothing. (At least that I've read or seen.) EddieDean posted:2) What happened to the Tantive IV after it got boarded by Vader at the start of ANH? Vader destroyed it and the entire crew was killed. Later, propaganda was released saying an asteroid storm was the cause of it's destruction.
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Dec 10, 2010 16:45
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JediTalentAgent posted:I do have to admit, I actually do like the space battle in the start or ROTS, despite it being cluttered to hell and back. If Episode 1 or 2 had started out that good, it would have instantly grabbed the attention of the audience more than a tea party or a slow landing craft would have. I'd agree with you if the vulture droids weren't the dumbest weapon ever. They managed to get a missile to plant objects onto the wings of the ship. It sure would be helpful if those objects would just blow up. But no, they slowly start taking the ship apart. Dammit, you've got them right where you want them! Blow up the drat wings! Visually, it was very cool. Logically, it makes no drat sense.
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Dec 28, 2010 17:18
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Fox of Stone posted:But they'd be useful for shipboarding actions. Come to think of it, those would be the weapon of choice for Wraith Squadron. They'd go in with Hobbie strapped onto the nosecone of an x-wing riding a buzzdroid missile. And it will be glorious. Fair enough, they might be useful for that. But attacking a one man fighter with them is just a waste of resources.
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Dec 28, 2010 17:34
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ROTS might have more scenes that are fun to watch, but it's hard to say it's the best of the trilogy because it's just such a flawed movie. I would struggle to even describe to someone what it's about, beyond "Jedi are killed, the Emperor takes over." Seriously, what's the plot of that movie? It's a series of scenes connected together by lose threads, but the movies doesn't really have a plot. It's not really about anything, other than the fall of Anakin. And that is handled so suddenly it's hard to even say it's about that. "What have I done?...okay, I'll kill kids." You yet again have a villain that was never mentioned before (Maul, then Dooku, then after quickly dispatching Dooku, Grevious) so you can't even get a consistent villain like Vader to keep you connected. Sure, the Palpatine is there, but he's not really a villain until halfway through. Before that he's the damsel-in-distress. You have what starts as a decent lightsaber battle finally about something, that turns into a CGI-fest with stupid hopping around lava like a video game. Then the final montage of random scenes to try and half-rear end a connection to the OT. It's terrible. Just like the others.
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Dec 28, 2010 17:52
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Starsnostars posted:I always feel bad for Grievous when people say he was given no back story or introduction, he's a villain on the same level as Admiral Piett or if you're feeling really generous, Grand Moff Tarkin and no one gives them a hard time for not being properly introduced. Piett and Tarkin didn't need back stories, because their role allowed us to fill in the character ourselves. They're career military men/Governor's who are high in rank in a totalitarian Empire. That's all we need to know going forward. Grevious is an entirely different story. (I mean, maybe, but who knows?) And my problem wasn't that we didn't get a back story. It's that he was a symptom of a larger problem: Rotating villains. There was no true villain to connect us through the trilogy, someone to always have our heroes struggling against. Sure, there was Palpatine, but for the vast majority of his screen time we were supposed to be pretending he wasn't evil. So it was hard to keep in mind he's this evil mastermind our heroes are fighting against (mainly because they weren't). His evil persona was as present as it was in the OT, but we had Darth Vader as the real villain of the OT. Here? Dooku is in two of them, but he's dispatched so quickly into ROTS that it barely counts. Grevious would have been a much better villain if it was actually Darth Maul inside that machine thing. Still hard to logic out, but it would have served the story better. Then you would have had a villain with a history with Obi-Wan, and someone that might actually scare Anakin, since he was a snot nosed little kid the last time he saw this killing machine. thrawn527 fucked around with this message at 18:47 on Dec 28, 2010 |
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Dec 28, 2010 18:44
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Duckman2008 posted:I think when you are doing what is basically movie 6 of a cult like franchise you can assume people have seen the previous movies, so a lot of plot development in theory is already carrier over from the other 5 (I think this really applies to palpatine, everyone knows he's evil already). Its just how they do it, like what you said on how quickly Anakin turns. I mean, I'm not saying we needed everything explained, but ROTS still didn't have a plot for the movie itself. Sort of like The Matrix Reloaded, where the plot consisted of them going from place to place because people kept telling them to. In the end, you end up with a movie that is essentially about nothing. And just because we know that Anakin turns doesn't mean they shouldn't spend time setting it up in a way that makes sense.
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Dec 28, 2010 18:46
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bad news brown posted:I'm pretty sure it was already mentioned in one of the earlier threads but the prequels would have been a lot better if Qui-Gon and Dooku were the same person, and Maul and Grevious were the same person. Agreed, both of these things would have gone a long way to making the prequels more interesting.
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Dec 28, 2010 18:49
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Powered Descent posted:It saddens me to see people ripping on the actors. The acting was NOT the problem with the prequels. The actors were doing the best they could with horribly-written lines, nothing but blank green walls to interact with, and direction that basically consisted of "Flatter... more wooden! That's it, BLANK expressions! You got it!" I don't believe anyone (in the last couple of pages, at least) was blaming the actors, but the acting itself is terrible. Granted, that doesn't mean it's their fault. Lucas is to blame for the bad acting. But it is still bad acting.
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Dec 28, 2010 21:25
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Starsnostars posted:Another problem with Grievous is that his robot body seems to be better than Vader's, he seemed much more mobile and had extra arms. If he was meant to show failings of the becoming a cyborg process, his mildly annoying cough didn't seem too much of a big deal. You know that's a good point. I wonder if Vader was ever pissed that his new body didn't get extra arms and the ability to spider climb up walls. DrBouvenstein posted:And I agree with the whole "Oh, in less than two decades everyone seems to have forgotten about the Jedi" thing. Han is the only part of that that actually works for me, though. I've talked about it in this thread before (which I shall shamelessly post again here because I can't think of a better way to say it), but it's not that Han doesn't know about Jedi. His issue is with the Force itself. Keep in mind, just because you've seen or heard about Jedi that move things with their minds, doesn't mean they have access to an all powerful life force that is the cause of all things in the universe. Think of the X-Men. These guys have mutations that let them have awesome powers. Can the people in their universe see that their powers exist? Sure. Do all those people assume that the mutants are Gods that understand the meaning of the universe? Of course not, they just have cool powers. You can believe that Jedi have powers beyond what normal people have, but you don't have to believe that the Jedi are right in their philosophy of where these powers come from. They could just have won the genetic lottery and be able to move things with their minds. It's like if someone honestly believes David Copperfield can fly. They're not sure how he does it, but they've seen it so it must be true. That doesn't necessarily mean they're going to start listening to him about his views on religion. (hopefully) Han may have seen Jedi use their powers, or heard about it from other people, but what he has issue with is that the Force is something that controls everything in the universe. That makes perfect sense to me. Same goes for the Imperial officer that talks back to Vader in that Death Star meeting room. Sure, he knows that Jedi (and Sith) have powers, but he's belittling those powers because they didn't stop the Jedi from being wiped out, and he feels that Vader being able to choke a guy from across the room means nothing when he can now blow up a planet. Neither he nor Han say, "You don't have powers beyond normal beings", they both just minimize the importance of the Force. But yeah, everything else that happened in those 18 years does seem bizarre.
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Dec 29, 2010 15:18
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JediTalentAgent posted:Dooku could have had a LOT of room to build a story around and give some plot between he and Anakin, but that never happened. If nothing else, Dooku could have been and should have been a guy who was 'half-right' about things. He was well-intentioned, suspected something corrupt in the Senate, was attempting to fix the universes problems with himself at the helm, but ultimately fails. He shouldn't have been a mustache twirling villain, he should have been a guy who was doing what he was doing, had hesitations about it, desperately wanted his former allies to join him to serve the greater good, but would ultimately have to turn against them because they not only refused to help him, but actively stood against him. This would have worked great, because it could have setup Anakin to have a similar story. After Dooku is killed, he could wonder whether he was right all along, and then follows down the same path, again, for the greater good.
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Dec 29, 2010 20:52
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Here we go: 1 hand - Zam Wessel by Obi-Wan - AOTC 1 hand - Anakin by Dooku - AOTC 2 hands - Dooku by Anakin - ROTS 2 hands - Grevious by Obi-Wan 1 hand - Mace by Anakin - ROTS 1 hand - Anakin by Obi-Wan - ROTS 1 arm - C-3PO by some random Tusken Raider - ANH 1 arm - Alien in Cantina by Obi-Wan - ANH 1 arm - Wampa by Luke - ESB 1 hand - Luke by Vader - ESB 1 hand - Vader by Luke - ROTJ That brings the count to 13 hands/arms. Although C-3PO seemed to have his arm ripped out, not cut off, so count that if you wish or not.
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Dec 29, 2010 22:56
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ThatWhiteGuy posted:I always think about this as well, and it also gives rise to one of what I believe the worst additions Jorge made in the Special Editions of the OT. After the battle in ROTJ they show a mini montage of everyone on planets that we have see throughout the series celebrating the fall of the Empire. The problem I have with this is that we never see any real oppression. The only real thing would be fear of the Death Star pulling a drive by on your planet, as that is the only really despicable act we see the Empire committing against its populace. As far as we know, nothing changed for the everyman when Palpy took over, we are just supposed to assume they were oppressed because the Empire is "evil." It just seems out of place to have everyone celebrating when we are never shown a real example of how they are being treated. While I agree that the closing montage to ROTJ in the Special Edition is unnecessary and out of place, it's not like the galaxy was shown to be a good place when the Empire was in charge. In ANH hope you see three big examples of this. First off, yes, there's the Death Star. This shouldn't be minimized. The Empire can, at any time, show up at your planet and wipe out everything you've ever known. All the people, history, places, and culture associated with your whole life, gone in a flash. It's like an instant Holocaust. And they've done it before, so it's a real threat. Second, the Emperor dissolved the Senate. So what one day was a government run by duly elected officials of the people, is now run by appointed cronies of a scarred old wizard. If tomorrow, Obama were to somehow make Congress not exist and instead had his appointees in charge of everything that happened in your state, you better believe there'd be uprisings. (Please no edgy comments about how he's already done this, just trying to make a point.) Especially if the reason he could do it was a giant gently caress-off weapon that scared the poo poo out of you, as mentioned above. The people's voice was silenced. Thirdly, when the Empire is looking for the droids, they burned Owen and Beru Lars to death. It's not out of the question to assume that this kind of thing happened more than just that once, and that lots of people knew other people who had disappeared in the middle of the night, or been found killed under suspicious circumstances. Beyond the movies itself, you find the Empire to be a highly xenophobic organization, enslaving entire alien races. But that wasn't mentioned in the movies, so we can really stick with those first three points. It's perfectly understandable from just those three that the average citizen of the Empire might feel like they're living in an oppressive government, and it's all shown in ANH. thrawn527 fucked around with this message at 17:01 on Dec 30, 2010 |
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Dec 30, 2010 15:25
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DrBouvenstein posted:It also makes no sense because there is still an Empire. Palpatine must have had lots of higher-ups and cronies that he kept in charge of critical places, and I imagine Coruscant especially would have lots of them. Not to mention generals, admirals, and such that weren't at the Death Star battle (I know the best EU trilogy deals with Grand Admiral Thrawn, but there must have been more than just him, right?) This is a much better point, and really why the end of ROTJ SE doesn't make a whole lot of sense.
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Dec 30, 2010 16:58
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ThatWhiteGuy posted:I wasn't trying to diminish the significance of the Death Star. But think about it. Nobody really knew about the Death Star; Han didn't, and if anyone would have heard about it would be him (as he himself states). Chances are the general public were not even aware of until after it was destroyed so it had little affect on them. They might not have heard about it until it was destroyed, but they sure as gently caress would have heard about the destruction of Alderaan. And in the mind of most people, what would stop them from making another? (Clearly nothing, as they immediately began making another) The threat of living under a government that has no issue with destroying a planet (and has already done so) would be ever present. Our Congress now is currently corrupt as hell, and very little gets done there. But if a President would dissolve Congress and declare himself supreme ruler, how would you feel? And don't forget, Tarkin mentioned that "Fear will keep them in line." Clearly that means the Empire wasn't handing out government cheese to keep people happy. The plan was to have people scared shitless as a way of controlling them. Even without the Death Star anymore (for a period of time) they still had massive Star Destroyers, that were so beyond overkill that fear is the only thing that justifies their size. You do make a point about the military atrocities, but if you lived in an area that experienced these atrocities, it might be hard to distinguish between "soldiers acting like assholes" and the Empire itself. And would then be happy when that Empire is taken out.
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Dec 30, 2010 17:25
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ThatWhiteGuy posted:Just a couple more points. Considering it only took the Rebels ONE battle to take out the Death Star, chances are the Empire wouldn't be frothing at the mouth spend more time and resources to build another one when the first paid little dividends. Again, I say this from the viewpoint of someone in the galaxy. Here's the thing, though. In the movie we're never shown the Empire being good to the people of the galaxy or having the shuttles run on time, as it were. What we do see is the Empire destroying a planet, dissolving the Senate, and burning people alive. We hear Luke say he hates the Empire. That's really about all the movies could have done to show us that the Empire was evil, and that the man on the street (in this case Luke) sees them as such. I'm not sure what else the movies could have done to get this point across without showing large groups of people in shackles building a monument to Palpatine while getting whipped by Stormtroopers. To say that the people would see the Empire as evil is using what we're shown. To say that the people of the Empire wouldn't really see much difference between being under the Empire or the Republic is to assume quite a bit that we are not shown. And I know that the EU doesn't really count in this discussion, but I feel it's important to point out that the Empire enslaved whole populations, such as the Wookiees. This goes a bit further than just the EU, since it is the official back story of Chewie, with him being freed from slavery by Han. If you were an alien in the Empire, your life sucked. Slavery and genocide on a massive scale would make anyone feel their government is oppressive.
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Dec 30, 2010 19:26
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Mad Hamish posted:Because the Mon Calamari enslaving Quarren, robbing them of their culture and running residential schools is completely and totally OK? Someone else doing something wrong does not make it right for other people to do it. I am making no judgments about the Mon Calamari. To the Quarren, they are oppressive. To most of the galaxy, the Empire is oppressive.
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Dec 30, 2010 21:25
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The fact is, there are small changes that could help the prequels a little (Grevious is actually Maul) and there are large changes that could help even more. My big thing I'd change? Palpatine didn't engineer a war and get duly elected, but instead he started the war as an enemy of the Republic, lead the clones in the Clone Wars, and defeated the Republic. He takes over ruling the Galaxy, but because it's so large he keeps the Senate in place to pacify the systems, albeit a somewhat useless and corrupt Senate. (Until the Death Star makes it unnecessary, of course.) This way you get to have a real villain (have Dooku be the Vader like character, a General for the Emperor) and the Emperor can stay about as behind the scenes as he was in the OT. Always present, but not walking around as a perfectly nice guy for the whole trilogy. In the PT you have Palpatine who is totally evil, except when you usually see him he's being polite and attentive. I know he's not actually a nice guy, but seeing him be the Chancellor for 3 movies and not as the villain takes away from his impact as THE villain, in my mind. The only challenge here would be why Anakin joins him if he's an outside invading force, but that's easily covered by having him seduced by the Dark Side, that he sees from both Dooku and eventually Palpatine. Drawn in by the power. The Jedi would want to join in the Clone Wars because they're worried what would happen to their "Peace and Justice" if Palpatine, a Sith Lord, wins. Maybe Anakin hunts down the remaining Jedi because the Jedi (who are not a centrally organized group) all plan on continuing the fighting after the war is over, and Anakin feels order has to be restored. He might kill the Jedi for his own idea of a "greater good", in that it would hopefully end the war, bringing order (and more power to himself). It's mainly a half idea at this point, and I generally hate fan fiction, but I'm so close to writing these up (and never showing them to anyone) just for my own benefit (picturing these events when watching the OT, and ignoring the PT). P-canon to an extreme level.
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Jan 4, 2011 16:15
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Gammatron 64 posted:I do really prefer the idea of the Republic becoming the Empire and not being conquered by it. Heck, you could even still have the war engineered by Palpatine! Except this time around he isn't in control of both sides, he just started it under false pretenses, and it isn't just Palpatine who is in on the scheme. The main reason I prefer the Republic being conquered by the Empire and not becoming it is it gives the war some reason for fighting it. If Palpatine engineer's the war, and the Jedi are fighting on a side that Palpatine wants them too, then if the bad guys win everyone is screwed, and if the "good guys" win, everyone is screwed. It works for some types of films, but I don't think space opera is suited to it. It's a massive galaxy spanning war, and you should be really hoping one side wins. Even if that side loses, you're more interested in the battles if there's something at stake. Palpatine trying to take over through the war makes the battles interesting. Palpatine trying to take over through manipulation behind the scenes makes the battles shiny distractions from the plot. But that's just my opinion on how I'd do it. There's plenty of ways to make better prequels. I just like the way it brings Star Wars back to simple light side vs. dark side, and not political machinations.
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Jan 4, 2011 17:31
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Captain von Trapp posted:A poster above suggested that when it doubt, rip off Akira Kurosawa. Works for me, but I'd extend it - when in doubt about a grand overarching plot for a war, rip off Thucydides and Edward Gibbon, or classical history in general. Mix and match - Palpatine is a Caesar figure, the clones are the Carthaginians with Grievous (and fix his name) as Hannibal. I like this idea quite a bit, actually. Because it lets Obi-Wan and Anakin be completely on the same side for the entire war, but then they fall on different sides in the resulting Civil War. Anakin could then become a Marc Antony type character to Palpatine's Caesar (if Caesar hadn't died, of course). Anakin could be drawn to him by his vision of, I don't know, order and extreme justice, as well as his power in the Force. Then they wipe out the Jedi to end the war and kill off their biggest threat, these wandering-samurai Jedi who do not agree with Palpatine's way, and thus are creating a Rebellion.
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Jan 4, 2011 20:23
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Captain von Trapp posted:Yep. And you'd want to keep some of the mysteries and surprises of the OT intact as well. Offhand, I'd say: I don't have much to add, I just want to say that I agree wholeheartedly with everything you just said.
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Jan 4, 2011 22:31
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Jerk McJerkface posted:The only problem with that, is that to make Yoda a surprise in ESB you can't show him, but then you have the problem where Obi-Wan was trained by Yoda, so to show Obi-wan you sort of have to include Yoda some way or the other. Showing Obi-Wan doesn't mean you have to show him being trained. In my mind, the prequels should start with Obi-Wan already a Jedi, maybe training Anakin, or maybe just convincing him to come with him on some "idealistic crusade". Doesn't mean Yoda has to be shown at all. Jerk McJerkface posted:I think a cool idea would have been to kill off Obi-wan, and then have him cloned or something. That's the only way to have tension. Then it's not a matter of knowing that he's going to be ok, but instead the mystery will be that he's dead, and how does he come back? I couldn't disagree with this more. It would feel cheap and kind of silli, and we'd know he doesn't stay dead. The how he comes back is kind of pointless. We already know a couple people who won't die. Everyone else you introduce is fair game and tension can arise from there, and from the attrition the Clone Wars cause.
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Jan 4, 2011 22:51
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Doc Hawkins posted:Something that occurred to me in the shower just now: the prequels spend all this screen time explaining senate politics bullshit and jedi library bullshit and complex betting bullshit, when ANH doesn't even tell us what the gently caress a Bothan is. No idea if there was ever any vision for them, but I think it was just mentioned as a throw away to emphasize the sacrifice involved in the war. In any other war movie, she would have said, "Many people/soldiers/spies died to bring us this information." But this is s sci-fi movie, so they created some sci-fi sounding word, and bam, she's talking about a different species. And since this is Star Wars, a massive back story had to be created for them after that. (Also, and this is nitpicky, but the Bothans comment was in RotJ, not ANH.)
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Jan 10, 2011 18:50
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Fox of Stone posted:Do any of you guys know if the Bluray re-release of the OT will have only the special edition + additional scenes version or will it have the original theatrical release as well? I've read a few things about the Bluray release, and nothing mentions the original theatrical versions. Plus, yeah, Lucas hates them. He bitched like crazy when putting them on the last DVD release. I'll be shocked if they make it on there, and if they do, I can almost guarantee they won't be touched up in any way, and will still look like crap. But yeah, there's been no mention of it, so don't count on it.
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Jan 10, 2011 23:01
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T-1000 posted:I don't really get how this thread went from mocking officially sanctioned fan fiction to writing our own fan fiction. We all realized that we're posting in an Internet thread about Star Wars, and trying to pretend we're not nerds was pointless.
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Jan 11, 2011 16:13
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Fine, whiny babies, we'll stop talking about how we'd actually make it better. Let's go back to simply bitching about what's wrong. But I'll remember to not make any suggestions for improvement. (I'm only half serious with my sarcasm. I guess the fanfiction had kind of taken over, so sorry about that.)
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Jan 11, 2011 23:06
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Doc Hawkins posted:No more than the head of White House Security is second-in-command of America, I think. Tarkin was in charge on the Death Star, but it's always been a little murky who ranked higher in the Empire. I think it depended on the situation. Not to mention, when he was killing the officers in ESB, this was after the disaster of the Death Star, after which I think he was given more control. The point is, by the time ESB came around, Vader was outranked only by the Emperor itself. And yeah, the analogy isn't perfect, because the head of White House Security is in no way as powerful as Darth Vader. The Empire rules with an iron fist, with no checks or balances. They answer to no one, because the Senate was dissolved. Vader can do whatever he wants, and the only thing stopping him is if it pisses off the Emperor, or if all the officers get together to stop him. But the latter isn't really likely, as they're all scared shitless of him (above picture not-withstanding). It's also worth noting that in the original draft of ROTJ, the commander who met Vader at the beginning on the second Death Star was a Grand Moff, and had a much larger role. (He may have still been a Grand Moff in the final product, but it wasn't mentioned and didn't matter.) He outranked Vader, and was undermining him the entire movie. But that was cut out by the time they got to filming, so it doesn't count.
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Jan 12, 2011 16:29
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DougieFFC posted:Actually that's from the Classic Star Wars series set between ANH and ESB, published first as a newspaper strip and later by Dark Horse Comics. Those are Admirals, not Moffs, and they're rebelling against the construction of Vader's Super Star Destroyer the Executor, which they try to help the Rebellion sabotage. It turns out to be a trap though - Admiral Griff the ringleader is working with Vader to weed out traitors. You're right. This is a Mofference: 
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Jan 12, 2011 16:38
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Fox of Stone posted:His name was Moff Jerjerrod and that sounds really neat but I think would've obfuscated the movie with a subplot. I only know his name from the card game and I feel ashamed that I can recall it all these years afterwards. Yeah, that's his name, thanks. I couldn't remember. I wrote up a longer description of the differences between the first draft of ROTJ and the final version in the last thread (which I can repost of anyone wants it) but Jerjerrod was a foil for Vader, who wasn't entirely a bad guy in that version. He was conflicted for far longer than he was in the filmed version, and ends up killing Jerjerrod. The whole thing is an interesting idea, but that version gets really weird, with the Force ghosts getting way more involved, showing up and freaking out the Emperor. The second draft has Obi-Wan showing back up in the flesh, not as a ghost. Weird poo poo I'm not sure would have really worked. My post is in the old thread, but I can go find it and repost it here if anyone is curious.
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Jan 12, 2011 17:09
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Danzou posted:Rather much. Was the first draft entirely Lucas? As far as I can recall, yes, he wrote the first and second drafts, and then it was modified by committee afterward. But I'm not positive about that. Here's what I wrote for the last thread: Okay, this is probably going to be long, but here we go. (I'm paraphrasing most of this from The Secret History of Star Wars, so if you've read this, there's nothing new here. If you haven't read it...do it, it's great.) The vast majority of the movie takes place on Had Abbadon, the capital of the Galactic Empire. (One assumes this was still the name of the capital, even if unspoken, until Zahn named it Coruscant in Heir to the Empire) Which, admittedly was described as a planet covered in cities and enshrouded in smog, so it had that which stayed the same come prequel time. There's two Death Stars under construction, and they're orbiting the green moon above Had Abbadon. At the beginning of the movie, Leia and a group of Rebel troops, undercover as Imperial troops, sneak into the moon. The plan is to assault the Imperial capital and destroy the Empire. Darth Vader and Jerjerrod then land on the capital planet and meet with the Emperor. Here we see the Emperor for the first time. In order to reach him, they have to go to his grand palace and then travel many miles underground. His throne is so far underground it sits atop a lake of lava. The Emperor tells Vader his powers are weak and that Luke has grown in power and must be destroyed. When Vader disagrees, he's choked. He says that Luke is the Emperor's to destroy, and orders Vader away. He then tells Jerjerrod to watch Vader, and that he doesn't actually plan to destroy Luke, but make him replace Vader. This whole thing sets up a different Vader than we see in Jedi. Vader is not turned back at the end, he plans for most of the movie to have Luke kill the Emperor and rule with him. Lucas starts humanizing Vader much earlier in the movie. Then we go to Tatooine where Luke is dreaming of Vader, Ben, and Yoda. In the dream, he yells at Ben for not telling him the truth, and Yoda says that soon he'll join Ben (you know, as a dead guy), and that he'll be stronger then and able to help Luke. Then we get Luke and Lando rescuing Han from Jabba, without Leia, but similar other than that. They go and join up with the Rebel Fleet, while on the way Luke has a vision of Ben that reveals the whole Leia sister thing. Meanwhile, Leia, on the green moon, meets the "Ewaks", who are pretty much the same as the Ewoks. (The Wookiees may have been originally planned, but by the time they get to the script stage, it's short furry merchandising machines.) Luke, who at first doesn't think he's ready to fight Vader, has a vision that Leia is in trouble and that the attack on Had Abbadon will fail, so he decides he has to help. They're ambushed, and everyone else escapes, while Luke surrenders. Vader gets to Luke before Jerjerrod can, and tries to tempt him with the dark side. This whole scene is similar to the scene in Jedi, until Jerjerrod enters, yells at Vader, and Vader kills him. Then he takes Luke to see the Emperor. Then the Ewaks and Leia blow up the communications disk on Had Abbadon, and the Rebel fleet shows up to start the battle. Then things start getting loving weird. As Vader is escorting Luke to the Emperor, Obi Wan's ghost appears. He says he's there to save Vader, and that if he turns to the good side, he'll pass through the Netherworld when he dies and Obi Wan will rescue him before he becomes one with the Force so that he will retain his identity. Vader just refuses and takes Luke to the Emperor's lava lair. They talk about Luke and the Dark Side, Luke refuses, then Obi Wan shows up again, followed by Yoda, and the Emperor freaks the gently caress out. He orders Vader to destory Luke, and Luke and Vader fight, while jumping from rock to rock over a river of lava. (Yeah, Lucas really wanted to work this in at some point.) Luke cuts off Vader's arm, but refuses to kill him. When the Emperor tries to shoot lightning bolts at him, he's protected by a Force Ghost shield. Whenever the lightning comes at him, the images of Obi Wan and Yoda appears. But eventually Luke falters, Vader grabs the Emperor, and they both fall into the lake of lava. The movie would end with Luke telling Leia she's his sister, and then Obi Wan appears in flesh and blood, not as a ghost, followed by Yoda, and then finally Annikin (that was the spelling the script) Skywalker. Apparently killing the Emperor brought those three back to life. Or something. The basic plot is still the same, and while I'm sure some parts had to be changed due to budget (the Imperial Capital, lake of lava) Vader is seen struggling with his issues throughout the entire script. Also, Jerjerrod is portrayed as someone to be feared. Even Vader is cautious around him. The opening scene we know in Jedi is in the script, except it's Jerjerrod talking to Vader, with Vader bowing before him. Vader then talks about how upset he is that the Emperor refuses to talk to him, with Jerjerrod brushes off with a "Well, he's really busy, you know?" The scene ends with Vader saying to himself, "Luke, beware, you are the Emperor's prey now." The second draft goes even more into this, with Jerjerrod taking Luke before the Emperor. When Vader finds out he breaks his neck with his bare hands, and then goes to the Emperor. Luke meanwhile is on a lava island, when Obi Wan shows up...in the flesh, not as a ghost. A lot of other crap happens the same, then Luke and Vader fight, with Obi Wan and the Emperor just kind of watching. The Emperor eventually shoots lightning at Obi Wan, but Luke (and Force Ghost Yoda) block it. Then Vader and the Emperor do their tumble into the lava. Obi Wan then says, "It's in Yoda's hands now." Presumably he's talking about saving Vader's soul, because at the end, Yoda and Annikin show up, very much not dead. Some parts of this version I like. For example, when Obi Wan said he would become more powerful than Vader could possibly imagine, in this version that actually means something. But most of this was changed in meetings with Kasdan, Marquand, and Kazahjian into the movie we got. Really, I just find this stuff interesting because you can slowly see the movie we saw emerge from what was kind of a retarded script, full of one-ups. (Oh yeah? Now there's 2 Death Stars!)
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Jan 12, 2011 17:40
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Chaos Hippy posted:You forget that there were four years between A New Hope and Empire Strikes Back. It was made clear at the beginning of Empire that the Alliance loved Han, and felt they were taking a big loss if he left. Three years, not four. But yeah, everything else you said is right. I'd also like to add that the Rebel Alliance wasn't exactly the Imperial military. They needed men, both soldiers and generals. If you were a hero that people would follow (like Han who had a Death Star kill under him, plus whatever else he did in the three years between) then being made a general makes sense. The important part is that people will follow you into battle willingly. The Rebel Alliance didn't exactly have a ton of options.
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Jan 19, 2011 15:37
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Donkey Kunt posted:I read very few EU books. I would check them out of the library when I read them, but is that the same book where some Imperials were stuck in a black hole cluster and they were building a Death Star without being aware of the destruction of the first one and they also were building a ship with a metal alloy that was unbreakable. The ending involved Luke getting in the ship and I vaguely recall him ramming a hole through Star Destroyers and other ships with this invincible alloy ship. You've basically got that right.
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Jan 24, 2011 23:46
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Fox of Stone posted:What. My 7 year old brother figured it out well enough for us to play. All we have now are magic and WoW TCGs...nothing that lets you snipe through Jabba's palace at someone near the Sarlaac next door while you steal their TIE fighter playing sabacc. I'm sad that the license was given to WOTC (guess why: they're owned by hasbro) to make their stupid game which failed within a year. We might still have SWCCG if it weren't for that. I think the problem with the Star Wars CCG is that it continued to get more and more complicated as time went on. The premiere set wasn't too bad. Being at certain locations to attack certain characters was weird, but nothing too confusing once you got used to it. They added events (I don't remember what they were actually called. Epic Events maybe?) like using the Death Star to blow things up, or blowing up the Death Star, and it got slightly more complicated, but still manageable. Then Jedi Tests (or whatever) with the Dagobah set made it even more complicated. By the time I quit playing, I hadn't done that great at keeping up with buy new sets, and playing against people who had kept up with them confused the hell out of me. "'Death Star II's movements are immune to revolution?' What the gently caress does that mean?" (Please don't explain revolution to me, I'm just using it as an example.) I mean, just look at the long description of rules for this card. They couldn't even fit a picture on there! 
thrawn527 fucked around with this message at 17:52 on Jan 25, 2011 |
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Jan 25, 2011 17:44
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Powered Descent posted:(And which isn't exactly a "NOOOOOOOOOOOOO," more of a "YEEAAAAAAAAAAAAAGH") Yeah, I think you've got it right. However, just in case it wasn't clear, Fox of Stone knows how many O's are in that word thanks to this card:  Which does show the screaming scene, not the falling scene. (That game was fun mainly because of how ridiculous they went with some of the cards.) Suenteus Po posted:The reverse side of that card was just a picture of Han in carbonite. It was a card that could never be in a deck, so it didn't need to have a standard back. It actually looked really cool. Yeah, I agree that the Jedi Tests cards were the most annoying cards, but it didn't quite get the point across like that picture of Jabba's Prize. That picture definitely wins for absurdity. thrawn527 fucked around with this message at 15:23 on Jan 26, 2011 |
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Jan 26, 2011 15:20
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Fox of Stone posted:Holy poo poo, I had completely forgotten about this card. I was going to go search for a more ridiculous one, but then I read the rules for this one and realized I would never find one.
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Jan 26, 2011 15:42
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Huitzil posted:It's kind of silly to use Brainiac as a representative of how complicated the game was; Brainiac was a joke card (that happened to be good sometimes) and the whole joke was how complicated it was. It's like using a card from Unglued / Unhinged as an example of how complex Magic is. Oh, I don't think it was being used to represent how complicated the game was. At that point, we were talking about how fun some of the cards are because of how ridiculous they are. Hence Fox of Stone talking about puns and other weirdness. Trust me, there was nothing but love for Braniac.
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Jan 26, 2011 17:01
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DorianGravy posted:Now I'm interested in the Rogue Squadron books as well. Outside of the Thrawn trilogy, I think I've heard they're probably the best books in the EU, right? Are the nine books in the series somewhat standalone? Are they all fun? They are standalone, both compared to the rest of the EU, and also (sometimes) comparing them to themselves. Here's the breakdown: Books 1-4: Rogue Squadron by Michael A. Stackpole. Good books that rarely meet up with the main characters of Star Wars. It relies on new characters (and Wedge). Books 5-7: Wraith Squadron by Aaron Allston. Fantastic stuff, not related to the first 4 books. (Well, we still get Wedge, but mostly new characters.) Once again, they rarely meet up with the main Star Wars characters. Han is in one of them a bit more, but it's still mainly about new characters. It's a bit different than Stackpole's stuff, but may in fact be better. (It's at least as good.) Book 8: Stackpole is back for another Rogue Squadron book. Book 9: Aaron Allston returns for a wonderful desert for the entree that was the rest of the series. Seriously, this book is just fun as hell, but also mostly unrelated to all the books before. Wedge and a few buddies are the main characters. It's a treat. In short, read them. They're great.
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Jan 26, 2011 17:25
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domi the great posted:I have in the last few months really began to immerse myself in the wondrous Star Wars cosmos. I also work at a bar and am organizing a Star Wars extended version marathon day/night (we're having a LOTR one this saturday, my bar rules) -Any time you see good guys wear white, or bad guys where black. -Twice any time you see good guys wear black, or bad guys wear white. (for uniforms, only the first person on screen counts) -Three times if someone hovering in between wears gray. -Someone's hand gets cut off (prequels could make this deadly). -A woman other than Leia is on screen. -A Rebel pilot is of a race other than white (I think this happens only once?). -Something doesn't work on the Falcon. -A gigantic technological marvel explodes in a single blast. (These are stolen from a list I read years ago)
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Jan 27, 2011 19:42
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