|
In the last thread, someone linked to a TFN thread with a ranking of all the EU novels. I've been unable to find it since, does anyone have a link handy? I like rankings.
|
#
¿
Aug 16, 2010 16:02
|
|
|
|
| # ¿ Apr 29, 2024 11:15 |
|
|
It's so funny that every EU writer ever took that one trait from Lando's character in Empire (being the administrator of a commercial facility) and just ran with it. Did Zahn start that with Lando's mobile mining operation in Heir to the Empire, or did someone else beat him to it? Not picking on Zahn here, since Lando's operation in that novel at least showed some continuity with the movies, and was being run competently.
|
|
#
¿
Aug 21, 2010 17:13
|
|
|
Mister Roboto posted:You know, The EU is basically glorified fanfiction. In a heartbeat. It would probably suck.
|
|
#
¿
Sep 2, 2010 13:07
|
|
|
arioch posted:Why does it matter? Asking about her real mother implies that there are two mothers, one adoptive and one birth mother. I don't think Luke was saying "do you remember your mother? I mean your real mother, not like my fake adoptive aunt-mother". If Leia was talking about her adoptive mother, or her first adoptive mother or anything stupid like that, the conversation between them has no purpose or weight whatsoever. Luke is curious about his family, he knows he was adopted and he knows Leia must have been too. Since he asks about her real mother, we have to assume that Leia knows she's adopted too (it's a really weird question to ask otherwise, and Leia doesn't seem to mind it). Luke doesn't gain anything from knowing that Leia's adoptive mother was kind and sad, and neither does the audience. It's just another one of those screwups that can't be reconciled in any reasonable way, and it could have been avoided if Lucas had bothered to actually pay attention to the few lines in the original movies that refer to the past.
|
|
#
¿
Nov 2, 2010 19:44
|
|
|
Looking at Rotten Tomatoes, TPM has a 62% score (40 by top critics) AOTC has 66% (40 by top critics), and ROTS has 80% (67 by top critics). The way I remember it, a lot of critics deluded themselves into thinking these were okay movies, just like a lot of fans (I guess it's not unreasonable to assume many of the critics were also fans). These critics typically praised Lucas' vision, the visual effects, and some just used the "it's a kids' movie" defence. Judging by the scores, this delusion grew stronger over time...
|
|
#
¿
Dec 27, 2010 00:06
|
|
|
Starsnostars posted:I always feel bad for Grievous when people say he was given no back story or introduction, he's a villain on the same level as Admiral Piett or if you're feeling really generous, Grand Moff Tarkin and no one gives them a hard time for not being properly introduced. I'm pretty sure Grievous is portrayed as more important than Tarkin, certainly more important than Piett, who is just a random Imperial officer who happens to get a promotion and survive. Tarkin doesn't really need more of an introduction than "Governor Tarkin. I should have expected to find you here holding Vader's leash". Besides, Tarkin and Piett are uniformed humans working for an evil empire. Grievous is a droid-cyborg thing who wears a cape and has a bad cough and collects lightsabers. You can't just throw a ridiculous character like that in there and expect people to get what's going on.
|
|
#
¿
Dec 28, 2010 18:37
|
|
|
The_Flasherman posted:Naturally, this being Star Wars, we -did- get backstory for him. Hell, if there's backstory for a character we see for two seconds in the Cantina during ANH... None of that is actually in the film though, which is kind of the point here.
|
|
#
¿
Dec 28, 2010 23:35
|
|
|
Andorian Blues posted:I felt the urge to make a really long "here's what I would have done" post to explain where Lucas went wrong, but then I realised how terrible that would be. The only correct thing to have done would be to never have made them in the first place. This argument has come up several times in this thread before. Godfather Part II and Temple of Doom are some examples, but prequel films in themselves are rare, and most of them are just cheap and fast cash-ins like Dumb and Dumberer or various "baby" versions of popular franchises. I don't think that means the SW prequels were doomed from the start. Put in the hands of a competent team of filmmakers with a passion for the source material, I don't think there's any reason whatsoever that they couldn't have turned out to be decent films.
|
|
#
¿
Jan 1, 2011 20:43
|
|
|
That's a pretty funny thought though. A bunch of Tusken Raiders out raiding, they hear noises from over a ridge... "Quick, everyone behind me! They'll think we're one sandperson!"
|
|
#
¿
Jan 3, 2011 22:45
|
|
|
Bene Elim posted:One of the important things to me with this project is not leaving plot holes with the OT. I don't want to make these plans into a drawn out love letter to the OT, but I do want to make sure they mesh together better than the current PT and OT. Like everyone else here, I've thought a bit about how I would have liked the prequels to have played out. One of the problematic things for me is tying it together with the OT. For instance, how do you explain the fact that Luke is placed on a backwater planet with his aunt and uncle (this raises another set of questions: what is Owen and Beru's relation to Anakin/Luke/Obi-Wan? I think my preferred solution is making Owen into Obi's brother, like it was originally planned) while Leia is raised by royalty on Alderaan? This issue is completely sidestepped in the PT, of course, probably because Lucas just couldn't think of a reasonable explanation. There are plenty of other questions; why does Yoda go into hiding on Dagobah while Obi stays behind on Tatooine to watch over Luke? Again, Lucas just shipped them off at the end of the film without giving any real reason. I guess these are kind of minor details, though. The way I like to imagine the prequels is with Obi-Wan encountering Anakin as a brash, young pilot (or "navigator on a spice freighter"?) and convincing him to join him on some sort of mission connected to a galactic war. This doesn't even have to be the Clone Wars. I don't think a couple of mentions in ANH mean that these wars have to be a focal point; this is primarily because I don't think cloning as a theme is a very good fit for Star Wars. It was horribly botched in the PT, of course, but I just don't care for the idea of clone soldiers or cloned Jedi in general. I also like the idea of dropping the Sith thing altogether. It's never mentioned in the OT, and I think Lucas made a mistake in relying too much on the EU when he wrote the prequels. I don't care about making them fit in with all the poo poo that's been produced after the OT. Palpatine could be a fallen Jedi, dark Jedi, or just some kind of mystical wizard who no one can figure out. By making the Sith an established order that the Jedi are aware of, it just raises the question of how they can possibly miss the fact that Palpatine is a Sith lord.
|
|
#
¿
Jan 4, 2011 23:39
|
|
|
What's a duck?
|
|
#
¿
Jan 6, 2011 14:54
|
|
|
It's obvious that major plot points in the OT like the relationship between Luke, Leia and Vader were not planned out ahead. We all know that the scripts for the PT, especially II and III were hastily put together. Lucas might have had some general idea of what would happen in the prequels, but considering the result, I think it's safe to say there was never any detailed, overarching plan.
|
|
#
¿
Jan 15, 2011 18:27
|
|
|
Wouldn't any cable network be extremely interested in a serious Star Wars live action series? I guess Lucas wants complete control, so maybe that's keeping them from getting a deal with a network. The idea as laid out by McCallum actually sounds interesting. Going with the rise of the Empire instead of Jedi stuff (which would have to be about Obi-Wan or Yoda, unless they start bringing out other Jedi, which of course is a distinct possibility) at least brings us closer to the OT in terms of content and atmosphere. I would love to see a well-written Star Wars show aimed at adults. It all depends on how deeply involved Lucas is going to be, obviously. If he cedes just a little control to writers and directors with genuine talent, it could be decent. I'm not getting my hopes up, though. They've been talking about it for years now, but there haven't been any definitive signs that it's happening any time soon.
|
|
#
¿
Jun 16, 2011 00:13
|
|
|
Luke Skywalker is not a Mary Sue, at least not according to the generally accepted definition. Mary Sues are wish-fulfillment characters without any serious flaws. Luke was rash and moody and made mistakes because of it (facing Vader too soon against the advice of a 900-year old mentor who should know what he's talking about, underestimating Jabba which put all his friends in danger, letting his anger get the better of him when fighting Vader, etc.). I can't really comment on Corran Horn, since I haven't read anything with him in it.
|
|
#
¿
Jul 31, 2011 00:20
|
|
|
MisterGBH posted:I was watching Robot Chicken's third Star Wars specials extra features and a segment with George Lucas he talks about the Jar Jar hatred and he starts talking about how when Star Wars came out everybody hated C3PO. Is this actualy true? Many of the truths we cling to depend greatly on our own point of view. So yeah, it's bullshit.
|
|
#
¿
Sep 5, 2011 12:39
|
|
|
movax posted:Also interesting is that he wasn't allowed to use 'Sith' in the book at all, he had to settle for 'Dark Jedi'. Actually, he wanted to call the Noghri Sith. Remember, Sith was not established as a title for what Vader and Palpatine were at that point. Vader was a dark Lord of the Sith, but the word was never mentioned in the original trilogy, and never applied to Palpatine in the scripts (as far as I know). Zahn's original idea was that Vader modeled his mask on the physical appearance of the Noghri (or Sith, if he'd been allowed to use it). I've just started re-reading Heir with the annotations now, and it's interesting, but a little sad how Zahn keeps acknowledging the prequels and commenting on how they make things in the novel appear in a new light or whatever. Obviously, he's not going to say "screw the prequels, I could've done it way better", and for all I know he enjoyed them (although it's hard to imagine, since he knows how to craft a real narrative, and should know tripe when he sees it).
|
|
#
¿
Sep 13, 2011 22:04
|
|
|
thrawn527 posted:Really? That's...wow, that's great. I didn't know that. Is that from the anniversary edition? If it is, I may need to pick that up. Yeah, it is. I've only gotten a couple of chapters in, but already there's a bunch of interesting tidbits. I would highly recommend it. Also, I may have exaggerated the stuff about the prequels, it's not like he's praising them or anything, just showing some respect for Lucas. I guess I'm just such a sperg about Star Wars that I get sore just seeing the prequels mentioned!
|
|
#
¿
Sep 13, 2011 22:42
|
|
|
Buml0r posted:(By the way, again, anyone in this thread who hasn't read Matthew Stover's Revenge of the Sith needs to get onto it. I've read maybe two or three other Star Wars books and they all came across as dreadful fanfic, but Revenge of the Sith is wonderful, explains, apologises for and re-writes more or less the whole thing with only a passing reference to the film's actual script, and is every bit the prequel Star Wars should've had in the first place. Obi-Wan is explored in amazing depth as a good guy who's been worryingly dogmatised and is beginning to wonder about his own moral position, every time Palpatine opens his mouth he says something I've never forgotten since, and even characters like Grievous and Dooku are well-rounded. By the time Dooku dies you know everything about him, and most of it just from the fight itself. This one book has replaced the prequel trilogy on my shelf, and in my opinion you don't need anything else to get a worthy background to the original trilogy. Try it!) I've heard this so many times now that I'm tempted to give it a try. You say that the story is more or less rewritten; does this mean that the actual plot is different (I'm suspecting the answer is no, since I don't think anyone could get away with that in an official Star Wars novelization), or just that lines are rewritten, motivations explained, etc? Because I find it kind of hard to believe that someone could write a decent prequel story within the godawful framework of clones vs. droids and Palpatine's poorly thought-out machinations.
|
|
#
¿
Sep 27, 2011 11:23
|
|
|
Carnaticum posted:People were pointing out some of the minor changes from the link posted before, and some of the tiny dialogue ones are what annoy me the most. See, when Lucas directed he usually took two takes and made the actors say the dialogue exactly as written. Kirshner took many, many takes and encouraged improvisation. So then Lucas goes back and over-dubs some scenes with out-takes that match the script. There's some pretty bad lip syncing in parts of the blu-rays. Like the Dagobah scene, where R2 is vomited out of the swamp. Luke originally said "you're lucky you don't taste very good!", while now it's "you were lucky to get out of there!". Which is of course, like most of the changes, completely pointless. It goes from dry wit to a basic statement of what just happened in the scene. All because Lucas had to have it his way. Prediction: by 2020, Han will reply "I love you too" in the carbonite freezing chamber. draize_train fucked around with this message at 14:00 on Oct 3, 2011 |
|
#
¿
Oct 3, 2011 13:56
|
|
|
Captain von Trapp posted:After the Luke/Vader fight in ESB, original Vader tersely instructs an officer to "Bring me my shuttle." Special edition Vader grandly instructs the same officer to "Instruct my star destroyer to prepare for my arrival." Oh yeah, that's another good one. I was actually thinking about that the other day (what can I say, I belong in this thread), and I agree completely. "Bring my shuttle" perfectly captures Vader's mood at that moment; he's just been rejected by his own son and cut off his hand in blind rage, he's realized that he can't make Luke join him, and he has to face the Emperor again. Obviously he doesn't really want to deal with officers.
|
|
#
¿
Oct 3, 2011 14:50
|
|
|
Mu Zeta posted:He seems to just tell the exact same story over and over. Right down to forgetting the name of the planet is Tatooine. That's what you do when you have to do a million talk shows and press junkets. Coming up with an amusing anecdote for each one is not really worth it.
|
|
#
¿
Dec 16, 2011 20:37
|
|
|
Ensign_Ricky posted:Ok, was up until 3:30 reading last night because Palpatine was introduced. Fun fact: he hated his immediate family so much he decided to discard his first name and go only by the name of his ancestral line. Just wanted to point out how stupid this is. If you hated your family, the natural thing to do would be changing your last name (your FAMILY name), not getting rid of your first. Apart from that, it's also stupid that we need some sort of explanation for this just because Palpatine's first name isn't mentioned in the movies. The more logical explanation for it is simple: almost no one is going to address a Senator, Chancellor or Emperor by his first name.
|
|
#
¿
Jan 17, 2012 12:32
|
|
|
Can't say I feel sorry for Lucas. Most of the "fanboy wailing" would stop if he could just release the original films (in a decent version) along with the Special Editions. I really don't care if he wants to ruin his old films, as long as the originals are still easily available somewhere. They're not, so he can go gently caress himself.
|
|
#
¿
Jan 18, 2012 16:43
|
|
|
Paragon8 posted:The best fix for the prequels would be just to make Naboo into Alderaan. With the rest of the plot remaining unchanged? I really don't see how that would fix anything.
|
|
#
¿
Feb 11, 2012 14:07
|
|
|
That's really well done! Young Heath Ledger would have been an awesome Anakin. All-Australian Star Wars!  Owen as a Jedi is an idea I've always liked as well. In the ROTJ novelization (maybe early script drafts too, can't remember) Obi-Wan reveals that Owen was his brother. I would have liked to see Lucas run with that idea in the prequels. Would have made the decision to place Luke with Owen more natural. draize_train fucked around with this message at 23:44 on Mar 14, 2012 |
|
#
¿
Mar 14, 2012 23:38
|
|
|
teagone posted:Also, something to note, I decided on throwing Russel Crowe in there (as opposed to Ewan McGregor) because of a concept art piece of Obi-Wan I remember seeing in a "Making Of Phantom Menace" book I had a long, long while ago. The best I could track down was this cropped, low-res image: I have that book too! I bought it before I saw the movie, when I still thought it could be good. There are some nice concept sketches in there. I actually think that piece looks more like Ewan McGregor than Russell Crowe, though.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 16, 2012 01:50
|
|
|
|
| # ¿ Apr 29, 2024 11:15 |
|
|
Well, here's one count.
|
|
#
¿
Apr 20, 2012 23:35
|
|