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Dolphin
Dec 5, 2008

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

cpach posted:

I have an anal-retentive correction to make to the otherwise good OP.

At the bottom of the OP equal temperament tuning is mentioned. The method described has nothing to do with equal temperament, and actually, if correctly performed, will definitely result in deviations from it. Tuning theory (and temperament in particular) is frequently misunderstood, so I felt I should clear this up.

Tuning by comparing the harmonics over the 5th and 7th frets (the 4th and 3rd partials) will ideally result in pure, pythagorean relationships between the strings, where consecutive strings (excepting between the G and B strings) are a perfect fourth away from each other, a 3:4 ratio apart, and approximately 498 cents. An equal tempered fourth is exactly 500cents. Thus, following the posted directions, you would (ideally) get an E string 2 cents sharp, an A string in tune, a D string 2 cents flat, a G string 4 cents flat, a B string 4 cents sharp, and an E string 2 cents sharp. The worst is the 408 cent major third between G and B, which is 8 cents sharp of equal temperament, and 22 cents sharp of just (pure) intonation.

This is mostly not so bad, as 2 cents is bordering on inaudible in most circumstances, and 4 cents still isn't a big deal. That one major third sucks pretty bad though. In practice, the real problem with this method is that there is opportunity to compound error. For example, if you, say, tune the D string a little sharp, and the G string a little sharp, it can add up to a fairly substantial error.

The ideal (aside from tuning each string to its own reference) is to tune all the strings to one string, preferably on fretted notes and octaves, as these should theoretically be accurately tempered. Thus, one could:
Tune A to a pitch fork or other pitch reference
Fret E string at fifth fret, compare to open A string
Fret A string at fifth fret, compare D string to this
Play 12th fret harmonic of A string, compare 2nd fret of A string to this
Play 5th fret harmonic of A string, compare 10th fret of B string to this
Play 5th fret harmonic of A string, compare 5th fret of high E to this

Of course, guitars never intonate perfectly accurately, so anything you do is likely to need small corrections, which are best done by comparing various octaves on different parts of the guitar, if you'd like to be very accurate. One should not ever tune to chords because the 3rds in equal temperament are supposed to be off. And strings are subtly inharmonic, maybe throwing off some of those harmonics off very slightly.

I don't even do the above proceedure. I tune quickly by harmonics, and make a few quick octave checks, if I'm not using an electronic tuner. This is all terribly nerdy, and I mostly just think the OP should just remove reference to equal temperament.
Haha, alright. Removed. I was taught wrong and just went and read up on this poo poo.

Dolphin fucked around with this message at 04:48 on Oct 11, 2010

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BENGHAZI 2
Oct 13, 2007

by Cyrano4747
I picked up the strat today. So loving pumped. I love this thing. I love it.

e: Out of the last fifty minutes, I've been playing for forty of them. My fingers are sore. It hurts to type this right now. I couldn't be happier.

BENGHAZI 2 fucked around with this message at 23:52 on Oct 11, 2010

Hanpan
Dec 5, 2004

Gah, guitar is so frustrating. I've been playing pretty much every day for a month (sometimes for more than 2 hours) and I just feel like I'm not really making any progress. I'm playing Blink 182 - Dammit fairly well, but it's kind of fast and I'm struggling to get all the way through it. The intro in particular I struggle to play clean and after a month of practicing it over and over I guess I was expecting to be able to play it by now :smith:

I was wondering if anyone could let me know how long it took them to get fairly competent, at least enough to make a simple song like Dammit no problem. I know a month isn't a very long time but I can't help but feel I should be better for the amount of hours I have put in.

BENGHAZI 2
Oct 13, 2007

by Cyrano4747
I was about to come in here to say that I was working on the same song. I played for three hours last night, alternating between working on chords and working on the intro when I got too frustrated with that, and I've played for three hours today, and I've pretty much got the intro down. Need to work on my timing and playing it cleaner but it's there. So loving happy right now.

Hanpan
Dec 5, 2004

Dickeye posted:

Need to work on my timing and playing it cleaner but it's there. So loving happy right now.

Yea it's keeping that drat intro clean that I'm having problems with.

BENGHAZI 2
Oct 13, 2007

by Cyrano4747

Hanpan posted:

Yea it's keeping that drat intro clean that I'm having problems with.

My biggest problem is going from the low e back to the d at the end of that riff. I can do the rest, but that one part keeps loving me up

e: That's a lie, it's getting my index finger up to the low e.

BENGHAZI 2 fucked around with this message at 21:40 on Oct 12, 2010

Hanpan
Dec 5, 2004

My biggest difficulty is most definitely going from the intro to the power chords and back in time with the song. It's so incredibly fast, and despite playing it endlessly I just can't seem to get anywhere close to being in time with the recording.

BENGHAZI 2
Oct 13, 2007

by Cyrano4747

Hanpan posted:

My biggest difficulty is most definitely going from the intro to the power chords and back in time with the song. It's so incredibly fast, and despite playing it endlessly I just can't seem to get anywhere close to being in time with the recording.

This is my next step, as soon as I can get the end of that riff down.

Philthy
Jan 28, 2003

Pillbug
I've decided to replace my strings for the first time and I thought it went fairly well all things considered. I did the once over, then rest under method for the winding. However, some strings are buzzing now on the low end. Is this something that should go away over the next few days as I play and keep tuning it to get the new strings broken in or could it be I just didn't wind them as good as I could have? Also the low E string seems to have a more hollow type sound, which I don't know its normal or not because I haven't changed my strings since I got the guitar last Christmas and the old ones went bad or not.

Edit: Strings are the same brand/size that I had on prior. Did one string at a time.

Philthy fucked around with this message at 05:05 on Oct 13, 2010

baka kaba
Jul 19, 2003

PLEASE ASK ME, THE SELF-PROFESSED NO #1 PAUL CATTERMOLE FAN IN THE SOMETHING AWFUL S-CLUB 7 MEGATHREAD, TO NAME A SINGLE SONG BY HIS EXCELLENT NU-METAL SIDE PROJECT, SKUA, AND IF I CAN'T PLEASE TELL ME TO
EAT SHIT

Hanpan posted:

Gah, guitar is so frustrating. I've been playing pretty much every day for a month (sometimes for more than 2 hours) and I just feel like I'm not really making any progress. I'm playing Blink 182 - Dammit fairly well, but it's kind of fast and I'm struggling to get all the way through it. The intro in particular I struggle to play clean and after a month of practicing it over and over I guess I was expecting to be able to play it by now :smith:

I was wondering if anyone could let me know how long it took them to get fairly competent, at least enough to make a simple song like Dammit no problem. I know a month isn't a very long time but I can't help but feel I should be better for the amount of hours I have put in.

Well y'know, even 'simple' three-chord punk songs have a level of technique to them, especially when they're fast and rhythmically tight. Don't beat up on yourself for not having it down yet! Practice slowly at first (this is important), use a metronome to get your timing accurate, and gradually speed up. It's not just timing either, I'm sure you've noticed when you try and play along to the song you stumble here and there but the song keeps on going and you have to try and catch up - playing to a consistent beat forces you to lock in and play things right, and your mistakes get smaller.

If you're having trouble playing the intro cleanly, and you have other strings ringing everywhere, try this - when you play (say) the D string, mute the lower (A and E) strings with the heel of your picking hand. Like palm-muting them if you've done that, but make sure you're not muting the string you're playing - it should ring out nice and clean. With your fretting hand, mute the strings above the one you want to play (the G B and E strings) by resting your fingers against them. When you play a different string, you do the same thing - mute the strings below with your picking hand, and the strings above with your fretting hand. The idea is that only one note is ringing at a time, and even if you accidentally hit another string it won't really sound because the string is muted. It's a technique you'll have to work on a bit but it's definitely worth it.

And if you're struggling to go from one thing to another (intro riff to power chords, C major chord to an F major chord etc) then practice that transition over and over, slow at first but speeding up as you nail it. Just play the end of the intro and the first few power chords over and over, and your fingers will learn what they're meant to be doing

Hanpan
Dec 5, 2004

baka kaba posted:

Words

Thanks for the sound advice. I think I am definitely being too hard on myself because I tried out some other stuff last night (House of the rising sun etc) and I managed to get them down pretty well... I'll have to work on my punk rock harder!

Zo
Feb 22, 2005

LIKE A FOX
Well generally it takes 10000 hours of practice to become truly good at something, which is like 15 years at 2 hours everyday, so I'm not in a big rush and you shouldn't be either! Just have fun on the way.

BENGHAZI 2
Oct 13, 2007

by Cyrano4747
So I've spent the last four days playing with no amp. Woo. Stupid dorms.

Someone suggested I get headphones that I can plug into them. What do you call the adapter to go from the amp jack to a 3.5mm cord?

cpach
Feb 28, 2005

Dickeye posted:

So I've spent the last four days playing with no amp. Woo. Stupid dorms.

Someone suggested I get headphones that I can plug into them. What do you call the adapter to go from the amp jack to a 3.5mm cord?

Do you mean to plug headphones into the amp? Those're usually 1/4" TRS, so you'd typically need a 1/8th" (3.5mm) to 1/4 TRS adaptor. Someone in your dorm probably has like 5 of the drat things lying around, or you can spend like $3 at a Radioshack.

The headphone amp on most amps (except modeling amps, maybe) tends to be pretty poo poo, but whatever. Practicing on unplugged electric is less ideal because you don't hear your string noise and muted notes and such as clearly, although it's not really as big a deal when your technique is already pretty clean. I do it a lot.

If you can get a soundcard with an DI in for your computer amp simulators, including the limited edition or some free ones, can be a good way to practice. Then you can lay down your own rhythm tracks, play to a metronome, drum tracks, etc. Obviously this can be a lot more setup and can cost a bit more, but it's fun, and makes a great practice environment when you can't crank up an amp. I only ever play through my real amp when I'm playing with others these days.

BENGHAZI 2
Oct 13, 2007

by Cyrano4747
I'm just looking for something to plug into the amp so that I can hear what I sound like. I just started, so I'd really like to be able to plug it in. I'm gonna pick up the piece at Radioshack later....once I find one.

Tez
Apr 25, 2004
Nothing Really Matters..........
Im not new but not sure where else to ask this question.

Im going to a buy a used 1993-94 Fender Mustang (Made in Japan) for about $900US. Is this overpriced? It has all its original parts and looks nice.

Any feedback appreciated.

Chip McFuck
Jul 24, 2007

We droppin' like a comet and this Vulcan tried to Spock it/These Martians tried to do it, but knew they couldn't cop it

Tez posted:

Im not new but not sure where else to ask this question.

Im going to a buy a used 1993-94 Fender Mustang (Made in Japan) for about $900US. Is this overpriced? It has all its original parts and looks nice.

Any feedback appreciated.

That is absolutely way overpriced; a brand new Mustang is only forty dollars more than that. $600 is a much more reasonable price for a used MIJ Mustang.

Tez
Apr 25, 2004
Nothing Really Matters..........

Side Effects posted:

That is absolutely way overpriced; a brand new Mustang is only forty dollars more than that. $600 is a much more reasonable price for a used CIJ Mustang.

Yeah...not sure how much cheaper he will go and i havent seen one around in Sydney for a while i guess. I want it bad but not bad enough to get rorted a few hundred bucks.

Thoren
May 28, 2008
Anyone have some good spanish chord progressions? The only one I really know well is Am > G > F > E

Suspicious Lump
Mar 11, 2004
I have a simple question that isn't just about guitars: Are you ever too old to learn a musical instrument?

Age:23

man thats gross
Sep 4, 2004

Suspicious Lump posted:

I have a simple question that isn't just about guitars: Are you ever too old to learn a musical instrument?

Age:23

Sorry man, you missed the cut-off. :(

Thoren
May 28, 2008

Suspicious Lump posted:

I have a simple question that isn't just about guitars: Are you ever too old to learn a musical instrument?

Age:23

Yeah you have to start by at least 12

no, you can learn anytime.

Suspicious Lump
Mar 11, 2004
Yeah that's what I always thought I just wanted anonymous confirmation.

I realise it's going to be more difficult when I'm older but I'm sure the satisfaction from learning an instrument will be greater.

Now I just have to decide on which instrument. I'm leaning towards the guitar but it seems more complex than I thought.

Famicom Bunko
Jan 30, 2005
Title text (optional; no images are allowed, only text)
I've been playing acoustic for almost a year now and I'm thinking it is time to pick up an electric. Based on what I've seen in this thread, I checked out Rondo's site and saw this beauty: http://www.rondomusic.com/al3100pp.html.

But then I also saw this bad boy: http://www.rondomusic.com/AL25002TSFLAMEbigsby.html

So I don't really know what I'm looking for here. What exactly is the extra $100 getting me? Could anyone recommend anything better for someone who has been learning the chords to a bunch of John Frusciante songs and recently started learning songs that involve picking? Which is to say up until now I've mostly just been a folky campfire guitarist.

Famicom Bunko fucked around with this message at 02:51 on Oct 15, 2010

BENGHAZI 2
Oct 13, 2007

by Cyrano4747
Roommate offered to tune my guitar for my tonight. A minute later I hear "What the hell?"

My neck is bowed more than it should be, and the intonation is all hosed up. I go by a guitar place on my way home though, so I'll drop it off tomorrow and pick it up Saturday.

Crooked Vulture
Mar 26, 2010

Famicom Bunko posted:

I've been playing acoustic for almost a year now and I'm thinking it is time to pick up an electric. Based on what I've seen in this thread, I checked out Rondo's site and saw this beauty: http://www.rondomusic.com/al3100pp.html.

But then I also saw this bad boy: http://www.rondomusic.com/AL25002TSFLAMEbigsby.html

So I don't really know what I'm looking for here. What exactly is the extra $100 getting me? Could anyone recommend anything better for someone who has been learning the chords to a bunch of John Frusciante songs and recently started learning songs that involve picking? Which is to say up until now I've mostly just been a folky campfire guitarist.

I'm far from a gear expert, but this is the little bit that I could tell between the 2 guitars.

AL3100: Better electronics, (maybe?) better tuners, better wood. Basically the same guitar without a trem, but better materials used to make it.

AL2500: has a trem arm.

My advice would be based on a few factors. If the extra $100 is going to mess up your budget, just get the 2500. If the extra $100 isn't a problem and you have a good amp already, go for the 3100. If you don't have a good amp, buy the 2500 and put the $100 toward getting a good one. The Vox amps mentioned in here seem pretty popular. I like the Fender Super Champ XD and the Blues Jr. personally.

Either one is fine, so there really isn't a wrong choice. For me, I'd choose based on your amp situation/budget.

edit: Also, I had a couple of friends with bigsby guitars that bitched about restringing them. This is probably because they are lazyfucks, but it does add another layer to it. Gretsch had a pretty good how to video on youtube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7jHUg--teQE

Crooked Vulture fucked around with this message at 11:17 on Oct 15, 2010

Dolphin
Dec 5, 2008

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

Suspicious Lump posted:

Yeah that's what I always thought I just wanted anonymous confirmation.

I realise it's going to be more difficult when I'm older but I'm sure the satisfaction from learning an instrument will be greater.

Now I just have to decide on which instrument. I'm leaning towards the guitar but it seems more complex than I thought.
Practice 8 hours a day for 2 years and you'll be better than anyone on your block.

Practice fatigue blah blah, whatever.

You're never too old to learn an instrument. I started learning violin at 7 and there was an 80 year old woman in my instructor's slot before me. She had been playing for 2 years and was really damned good because all she did was practice. This was violin, arguably a much less friendly instrument to get into.

Dolphin fucked around with this message at 19:08 on Oct 15, 2010

swimgus
Oct 24, 2005
Camlin bought me this account because I'm a Jew!
I'm not really new to guitar. I've been dinking around with it for like five years, and I can strum chords pretty well straight up, but I'm having a bitch of a time trying to play triplets. I can't get it to sound right at all. I'd really like to learn that Bruce Springsteen song about Atlantic City, and I'm pretty sure the strum patter requires triplets. Any tips on getting that down?

Suspicious Lump
Mar 11, 2004

Dolphin posted:

Practice 8 hours a day for 2 years and you'll be better than anyone on your block.

Practice fatigue blah blah, whatever.

You're never too old to learn an instrument. I started learning violin at 7 and there was an 80 year old woman in my instructor's slot before me. She had been playing for 2 years and was really damned good because all she did was practice. This was violin, arguably a much less friendly instrument to get into.
This is awesome. Makes me want to go out right now and get a guitar and start practicing.

Realjones
May 16, 2004

Famicom Bunko posted:

So I don't really know what I'm looking for here. What exactly is the extra $100 getting me? Could anyone recommend anything better for someone who has been learning the chords to a bunch of John Frusciante songs and recently started learning songs that involve picking? Which is to say up until now I've mostly just been a folky campfire guitarist.

You can compare specs here:

http://www.rondomusic.com/alspec.html

The 3100 is a better guitar built from higher quality materials. If you don't need the whammy bar, the 3100 will be much easier to restring. If money is an issue the 2500 will work just fine.

Zo
Feb 22, 2005

LIKE A FOX
Got my index finger split open again via barres. Hurts like a giant papercut, ground away over a period of days. Last time this happened it took like 2 weeks for it to close back up :(

Also I think this thread will see a lot of action once rock band 3 is out and the pro mode guitar or whatever is out, and people want to learn to actually play. Squire strats for everyone!

Gorilla Salsa
Dec 4, 2007

Post Post Post.

Zo posted:

Got my index finger split open again via barres. Hurts like a giant papercut, ground away over a period of days. Last time this happened it took like 2 weeks for it to close back up :(

Also I think this thread will see a lot of action once rock band 3 is out and the pro mode guitar or whatever is out, and people want to learn to actually play. Squire strats for everyone!

You're playing too hard.

Zo
Feb 22, 2005

LIKE A FOX

Gorilla Salsa posted:

You're playing too hard.

I just barre and slide a lot. My guitar's action is actually pretty low and I'm using 10s.

I just always use the same part of my finger :( Also, I play a lot. Threw a bandaid on there and just kept going!

Incredulous Dylan
Oct 22, 2004

Fun Shoe
I've been really looking at Rock Band 3 but I don't want my first electric to be some poo poo electric just to play a videogame. I wish there was some way to adapt a guitar to the game but I know that there's sensors built into the board :(

Zo
Feb 22, 2005

LIKE A FOX
I read it's a modified squire strat which isn't too bad. That was my first guitar and it did its job. Every guitar you touch is going to sound like poo poo when you first start anyways.

CalvinDooglas
Dec 5, 2002

Watch For Fleeing Immigrants

Zo posted:

I just barre and slide a lot. My guitar's action is actually pretty low and I'm using 10s.

I just always use the same part of my finger :( Also, I play a lot. Threw a bandaid on there and just kept going!

You're pressing way too hard. Technique that hurts you is completely counterproductive.

Zo
Feb 22, 2005

LIKE A FOX

CalvinDooglas posted:

You're pressing way too hard. Technique that hurts you is completely counterproductive.

No, trust me, I'm not pressing down hard at all. I slide a lot with my finger on the string and it slowly opens up the skin where the lines meet, which doesn't hurt at first, but then digs deeper and opens it wider until it hits a nerve.

It has nothing to do with how hard I'm pressing down. This is on the low A string.

I've also never heard of anyone else getting this before, so it's hard to describe it.

CalvinDooglas
Dec 5, 2002

Watch For Fleeing Immigrants

Zo posted:

No, trust me, I'm not pressing down hard at all. I slide a lot with my finger on the string and it slowly opens up the skin where the lines meet, which doesn't hurt at first, but then digs deeper and opens it wider until it hits a nerve.

It has nothing to do with how hard I'm pressing down. This is on the low A string.

I've also never heard of anyone else getting this before, so it's hard to describe it.

No, trust me, you're pressing too hard or using the wrong part of your finger to barre/slide. If it injures you, you need to make an adjustment. It's entirely possible to play for long periods regularly without any pain at all, but only with good technique.

Zo
Feb 22, 2005

LIKE A FOX

CalvinDooglas posted:

No, trust me, you're pressing too hard or using the wrong part of your finger to barre/slide. If it injures you, you need to make an adjustment. It's entirely possible to play for long periods regularly without any pain at all, but only with good technique.

I'm using the best part to barre, the bit right under your finger pad that's all boney. I'm well away it's possible to avoid injury but "press lighter" doesn't help me at all since I'm not pressing hard at all. I suppose this is a question for the next time I take a few lessons since the internet has no answers.

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seigfox
Dec 2, 2005

Just an average guy who serves as an average hero.
Help! I feel like I'm being pulled in too many directions.

There are different playing styles, types of picking, strumming, sliding, and a billion chords, scales, modes, positions... I don't have a a particular style that I'd like to learn over any other so I feel like I've lost focus. I'm learning a little bit of everything but I don't feel like I'm getting good at anything.

I guess my question is; What do I do first? Do I learn to read music? Should I focus on scales? Chords and strumming? Is a particular style of music easier to learn?

Is there any one thing that will make the other things easier/clearer or is meandering the best way to do this?

EDIT: Zo, are you using razor wire or something? I'm playing songs that consist of nothing but barre chords and doing so for hours and other than the occasional cramped hand I'm none the worse. Something is amiss with your situation.

seigfox fucked around with this message at 01:50 on Oct 19, 2010

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