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Sock Weasel posted:Basically he's an 8 month old Vlack / Czechoslovakian Wolfdog who I will definitely give you guys a write up of once I'm not half asleep  That's awesome!!!!!! Odd question, is he from Galomy Oak, by any chance? He's the right age and has the right face for it... If not, what's his name? I'd love to look him up in the wolfdog.org database.  (I'm absolutely CsV obsessed, if you couldn't tell...)pandrax posted:Since you commented back, I've gone full out with the NILF training. It works and it works fast. I'm having a harder time explaining to roommates and guests, than training Jolly to be in line. Spoiling him, or letting him get away with stuff (even if it's just for the camera) made him pretty unmanageable at times. I spent the last couple days with a water bottle and a bag of treats, and it made a big difference. I just wanted to update on that. The couch thing needs to be worked on - we seldom let him in but he does go straight to the couch. He sits before I give him a bowl of food (usually without telling him to, and if he doesn't sit, then he doesn't get anything until he does). I find him at his most unreasonable if he hasn't eaten in awhile. I hid all of the toys and he won't get most of them back for awhile. In the past I've found most of the backyard drama between the two dogs has been over rawhide and bones - so I'm cutting those out completely and just going to use treats that will be gone fast instead of something that he can be aggro/possessive over for hours to days. That's fantastic!!!  I'm so glad to hear it's working out! You'll have to keep us updated with your progress, you really have a couple of awesome dogs, there. 
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Sep 13, 2010 21:30
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paisleyfox posted:I hear a lot of times of people having a hard time of ignoring the dog that jumps all over them when they come in the door because the jumping just means he loves you and isn't rude and why wouldn't EVERYONE love that?! "But I like when he jumps on me!" WolfensteinBag posted:
That's what I was thinking too. That was a small litter though right? I think there were only 4 (including Luna) but I'm not positive. I was just looking at the pictures of them the other night
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Sep 13, 2010 21:30
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rivals posted:He looks awesome, out of curiosity what kennel is he from? He's from the first litter of 'Wolf Lore' in the UK, sire being bred by Crying Wolf (Fergus, d11036 in the database) and dam by Wolfzone (Takima, d9712.) Finding good CsW lines in the UK which haven't been crossbred is somewhat of a needle in a haystack. His name is Hrafn
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Sep 13, 2010 21:33
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I'm familiar with Crying Wolf, though Wolf Lore just rings a bell and I'll have to look it up to see if I've seen much about them before. Thanks for the information! I can't wait to see what you say about him, my next dog is going to be a Vlcak, we're just not quite sure when that's going to be just yet.
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Sep 13, 2010 21:39
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Ooooh, you definitely do have your work cut out for you finding a dog in the UK. With all the problems with the breed there, no one even wants to sell to the UK, so even good breeders are having a hard time finding dogs.  Are you ever in the forums there? That's the only other place I hit up as much as PI. Oooh, just looked up your dog, I knew Fergus sounded familiar! He's actually from a good line, I love the breeder of his mother. I swear I recognize the name, too, I think whoever his owner is posts in the forums. It's a shame the dogs aren't FCI registered, though.
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Sep 13, 2010 21:43
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Tell me about it - I thought I would never find a decent breeder over here! I'd almost given up all hope as European breeders (rightly so) are so wary of selling to the UK. Seeing the breed being ruined so soon over here with all the crossbreeding/moneymakers really makes my blood boil. Fergus is a stunning dog with such a lovely temperament. So aloof and really doesn't give a drat what's going on around him haha, even with Hrafn and his littermates pestering the hell out of him. I'm not too sure what's going on with the FCI status on Takima's mothers side though, that's a new database feature, I'll definitely be looking into that! I do lurk the forums there a lot but barely ever bother to post because UK residents are all automatically heathens you know.
Sock Weasel fucked around with this message at 22:00 on Sep 13, 2010 |
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Sep 13, 2010 21:58
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Sock Weasel posted:Tell me about it - I thought I would never find a decent breeder over here! I'd almost given up all hope as European breeders (rightly so) are so wary of selling to the UK. Seeing the breed being ruined so soon over here with all the crossbreeding/moneymakers really makes my blood boil. How would you describe Hrafn's temperament? What's your exercise schedule like? Do you have any plans to work/compete with him?
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Sep 13, 2010 22:01
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Random Buddy photo dump! We're going to have to have a contest for smallest husky ball.                  Here's what was on the website that made us want to meet Buddy  These were all some of the older pictures I had, since I haven't posted them in a long time. There's tons more where that came from, though. Also, here's a link to our channel on YouTube, there's a bunch of other random stuff, but there's a TON of Buddy videos on there. http://www.youtube.com/user/randomwordcombinatio?feature=mhum#g/u
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Sep 14, 2010 04:14
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Buddy's eyeliner is so glamorous  He looks soooo soft, I wanna pet him!
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Sep 14, 2010 04:17
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WolfensteinBag posted:Random Buddy photo dump! Yessss. It's pretty close. I'll have to dig up and take small Kaidanball pictures. He has been doing it more lately but he still oozes out quickly. The picture of Buddy leaning out of his crate is so damned though.Also,  on the Baroness vid.
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Sep 14, 2010 05:22
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I just wanna pet your dog wolfstein he just looks so fluffy and he's so cute. 
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Sep 14, 2010 05:24
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LOVE all the pictures - you folks have some lovely pooches! This is purely to fuel my fantasies of having some kind of primitive some day, but I was wondering if anyone here has had experience in working with primitive breeds as well as horses? While training processes and specific techniques are obviously going to be very different (prey vs. prey drive? haha), it seems to me that general attitude/baseline philosophies are rather similar. (at least as far as my horse training techniques go) For example, with a horse, body language plays a key role and your goal is to set yourself up as "boss" using positive reinforcement and making the wrong thing hard and the right thing easy (there is a better way to say that but it escapes me at the moment). Pushing them too much leads to them pushing back, you've gotta convince them it was their idea, boundaries = healthy friendship, etc. Would those concepts apply to these doggies? I have not had much practical experience with dogs (lots of reading and watching though!) but would die to get my first within the next year or so. I have always loved the character and personality of huskies/malamutes/other primitives and the more I learn about 'em the more interested I get! I would, of course, settle for a herder (corgi, heeler, BC ) but neither are ideal first dogs per se, so I want to make sure I am well prepared.Anyway, just wondering if my hoofed training experience might cross over in some ways. Keep up the great articles! fake edit: wow - second post in one day. New world record for me.
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Sep 14, 2010 05:46
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Some more of Scout and Jolly. Scout is a weird guy. At first there was a lot of trouble with him smashing pots and tearing up plants during the night. I now keep him on a chain (long enough so he can run around but keeps him away from stuff he can mess up). He is a Shiba mix, probably a Pit Bull, or maybe a Fox or Rat Terrier. He's extremely friendly. He is also so spazzy that he gets worked up and passes blood. The problem stopped after a bunch of vet visits, and deciding to keep him on a chain to limit his activity. He gets walks, by himself, every day, but is very, very excitable. It's called Stress Colitis. In the NILF method, I'm giving him chances to earn the whole backyard instead of just a piece of it. He just has to work for it.  Here's Jolly, bushy, curly tail, sitting side-saddle:  Here are some videos I got today of Scout instigating against Jolly. They don't get that bad with each other and I think it's over asserting which one is the alpha between the two. What I like about the second video is that Jolly knows exactly how long Scout's leash is, and stays just an inch away from how far he can get, taunting him. I'm also interested in hearing if anyone else's dog does that sideways hop that Jolly does - I haven't seen a normal dog being able to move that way. He's pretty agile. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uS0HsDQQxG0 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hst5N-RYo7E I find that if toys and food aren't at issue, Scout, the smaller one, starts all of the fights and also fights the dirtiest. It may be a dominance thing. They haven't hurt each other, so I don't break it up. I don't, however, know where to say play ends and aggression begins. Hope these vids help and I appreciate any input. pandrax fucked around with this message at 19:53 on Sep 14, 2010 |
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Sep 14, 2010 06:54
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Hrafn. ("raffen") Male Czechoslovakian Wolfdog, born January 28th 2010. He went from starting out life as a wormling:  A litter of nine! All have grown up healthy and mum did so well with her first litter.  To a floppy-eared fuzzbutt when his ears grew too big for his face   Looking so much like his dad  He also became fluent in Seal-Face somewhere along the line  Currently he's looking like so:   I need to get some new ones as they are about a month old already. Still growing into those ears... a life less posted:How would you describe Hrafn's temperament? What's your exercise schedule like? Do you have any plans to work/compete with him? Temperament I would describe as... challenging. Persistent. As with most dogs in this thread, if you want him to do something you need to give him a good reason why. If he thinks there is nothing of value to be gained? Good luck getting him to listen. However with that said he is a dream if you're making him work for something he wants - positive reinforcement all the way! The NILF method is working really well for him! We're finally at a stage where when we set his food bowl down and tell him to wait, he'll lay there looking up at you with a wagging tail until you say he can go. They aren't very vocal - I can count the amount of times I've heard him bark on one hand - so will mostly utter ridiculous mewling sounds and huffs/growls/whines when playing. He's extremely friendly with my partner and I, loves to cuddle, goes completely insane with love rush whenever we visit his breeder (it is adorable that he remembers his 'dad' so well). With strangers he can be a little aloof/wary until he's had a good sniff, after which he's usually more than happy to be fussed. We do Viking re-enactment so we've worked hard with him to ensure he's good with meeting new people for when we are at shows with the public. If we're at a multi-period show which has loud cannons or gunfire from the WWII lot? Not fussed at all! They get bored very easily and love company, which is one of the many reasons we'll be adding a rescue mutt from the local shelter to our family in January/February  Exercise is every day, twice a day preferably. If you don't take him out you would have the joys of a very bored, energy-filled pup on your hands. Half hour to forty-minute walks each time at the moment as I don't want to be pushing him too hard while he's growing, but we take him out on occasional long trips with his father/mother and sister (who are all local) every couple of weeks or so. My parents live out by the Yorkshire moors and I can't wait to take him out on long hikes out there. Phew. Working wise I want to get him into agility classes once he's a bit older and see how he takes to it. His mother can fly around the course, but as he's a male - therefore has a much heavier build - he probably won't be quite as nimble, but I think it would be a good outlet for the amount of energy he has. Making him focus on me and not the crows or pigeons in the distance may be a challenge though  One of the females from the litter has gone to a chap who will be training her up in Search & Rescue, sadly though he doesn't seem to have an online presence so I'm relying on small updates from the breeder to see how she's doing. Showing is something I'd really love to do with him. CsW's aren't Kennel Club registered in the UK yet due to only being here (legally) since 2008, so until they are accepted in (do I really want that? I do not know) we stick to local fun dog shows.Didn't mean for this to be such an essay, whoops.
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Sep 14, 2010 10:45
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Great googly moogly he is GORGEOUS!  How is he around other animals?
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Sep 14, 2010 14:21
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perhapsimabandit posted:LOVE all the pictures - you folks have some lovely pooches! I do not have experience with horses, so I'm only going off what you mentioned in your post. I think that the idea behind horse training can be equated to dog training -- being the boss, being the provider of good things, setting the animal up to make the right decision. But the key difference is how we use our bodies with each animal. Studies have shown that dogs can read our gestures better than any other animal on Earth. (They've done studies in how animals read our bodies when we point. Dogs, over apes and other simians, are the only ones who can be directed to a reward by hand signals from a distance.) Dogs, more than any other species, have evolved alongside humans to function in our world. So, while I'm not entirely sure what I'm trying to say, I think the core principle is that the dog training process is very much a partnership. I'm not sure this is the same with horses, since I think that full control is necessitated by their size. With dogs it feels like it would be more of a conversation, rather than a command. I think that dogs at their core have a greater capacity for learning. Anyways, the more I type and think on it, the more it seems likely that at their core the principles are the same. Where they differ is in the details. Sock Weasel your dog is absolutely gorgeous. Feel free to post more pictures if, y'know, you really want to.
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Sep 14, 2010 14:28
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Sock Weasel posted:Hrafn. ("raffen") Male Czechoslovakian Wolfdog, born January 28th 2010. Those are really beautiful dogs. What is the younger ones' coats like? pandrax fucked around with this message at 20:24 on Sep 14, 2010 |
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Sep 14, 2010 19:42
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When he was a pup his coat was unbelieviably soft and plush! It's getting nice and wirey now though, especially around his neck and back. Oh gosh don't tempt me to post more pictures. I have hundreds of this drat dog. (I'm just gonna sit here and over Buddy and his pretty face.)
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Sep 14, 2010 19:56
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Okay, these pictures STILL crack me up, and I just need to post them for y'all. I was "hired" to take pictures of my friends' dogs out in the bluebonnets when they were nice and blooming, and I tagged Koji along so I could get pictures too, why not? OH MY GOD they were all more distracted than usual and no amount of usage of the word "treat", kissy noises, squeakers or calling their name would get their goddamn attention. These were all taken in quick succession with a rapid fire feature on my camera. Jiro is the sesame (left), Koji in the middle, and Yuki is the creamie on the right. This, ladies and gents, is my dog:           Seriously. Yuki was the only one to take a ton of pretty pictures.
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Sep 14, 2010 20:31
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hahaha Koji cracks me up. I  Shibas. Kerfuffle posted:I just wanna pet your dog wolfstein he just looks so fluffy and he's so cute. If you're ever near Chicago, just let me know!  Sock Weasel, thanks for posting Hrafn!! It's so funny, he totally has his mother's face. Do you by chance remember who Fergus' owner is? I KNOW it's someone who posts on wolfdog.org, but the database is still somewhat down (no owners are listed) and it's KILLING me that I can't remember who it is. Also, feel free to post more pics!!! CsVs are a novelty around here, obviously, you're the first person on SA who's come forward owning one. I'm planning on getting involved with the breed down the line, ideally starting a kennel, so I absolutely love seeing pictures of them. Oh, also, I sent you a message on wolfdog.org, but I just realized you're fairly new here, and you might not have gotten the reference.
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Sep 14, 2010 21:42
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paisleyfox posted:this dog is the greatest dog He's literally looking at you like 'What a nice day for ruining all your plans'.
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Sep 14, 2010 22:59
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Wolves Part 2: Hybrid Boogaloo ”It’s a Great Idea! Didn’t you read White Fang?” Wolf Hybrids and Why You Really Don’t Want One “So, I can’t own a wolf so what about a wolf hybrid? It can live in the house and be *~*my companion*~* not my slave!” Honestly, this is a huge reason people list for wanting a hybrid. Also, “I’ve always felt such a BOND with nature,” and “I’ve always just had a natural understanding with animals.” The FIRST thing you need to ask yourself is, “Why get a wolf hybrid when there are so many breeds that are similar to wolves, and much safer to own?” While you mull that over, we’ll go over what hybrids actually are, what the community is like surrounding them, and what people in that community consider to be a “good” hybrid breeder*. *I’d like to take a moment here to do an aside on this topic. I’d like to point out that with these dogs, the grey area of what you’d consider a good breeder gets even broader. All I can do is point out how people involved with these dogs see breeders, and it’s VERY important to understand that all these people are PRO hybrid and actually own these dogs, so it’s likely their views are bias in that direction. When I mentioned that while I'm doing research, I will likely never own a hybrid myself, I actually had someone reply, "That's a shame." The most important thing anyone reading this can do is to take in the facts and compare them to your personal ethics on breeding to decide where you feel on the subject. Just know when I write this, I’m not condoning anything, I’m just posting what I’ve learned.* One of the first things you’ll learn if you do any sort of research into wolf hybrids is that it’s apparently become politically incorrect to call them as such. The term “Wolfdog” has been favored as of late for two reasons, 1) The dogs technically aren’t hybrids because wolves and dogs are the same species, and 2) “Wolfdog” just sounds better when dealing with the general public. A wolfdog, however, is a very general term encompassing a wide variety of dogs. Wolfdog can mean a 50/50 mix of a pure dog and a pure wolf, it can mean a dog that has a wolf in its far ancestry who’s pedigree is mostly dog, or it can mean the opposite, a dog who mainly has wolf in it’s pedigree, but has just a drop of dog to make them still legal to own (in areas where it’s legal to own hybrids). Overall, dogs can be further categorized into High Content (mostly wolf, and must be approached and housed as such), Mid Content, and Low Content (or “Low-No Content” when the dog is claimed to be a wolfdog, but it exhibits no real wolf traits). Responsible owners of hybrids stress the fact that since these dogs are all over the board in terms of content and the dogs they’re mixed with, it’s vital to do research before owning one. It’s important to understand wolf behavior and containment (in case the dog winds up unfit to live indoors and must be kept in an outdoor environment with at least one other companion wolfdog), “wolf-like” dog breeds that are commonly mixed like huskies and malamutes, and to a lesser extent, GSDs, and how these traits can mix. Wolfdogs should be trained and treated as wolves, since typical dog training methods simply do not work. It is extremely important to build up a bond with your dog and understand that there are a lot of wolf-like instincts, such as prey drive, that may never be trained out. Here’s a link to Wolf Park’s Guide to Keeping Wolves and Wolf-Hybrids. It has a lot of fantastic info on the dedication it takes to keep these dogs. As far as reasons for breeding and finding a responsible breeder, I got a lot of responses that boils down to the fact that the reason there isn’t an American Wolfdog breed the way there is a Czechoslovakian Vlcak (Wolfdog) is that specific breeders have different goals in mind, so it’s important to find a breeder that shares your vision of the “perfect” wolfdog. While specific goals may differ, it seems there are a few things that draw people to these dogs that good breeders will take into account when breeding. First and foremost should be health. I got a lot of people talking about breeding these dogs because wolves are naturally more healthy because they haven’t been so horribly inbred, and so they breed wolfdogs to essentially bring “new blood” back into old lines. Good breeders actually do keep track of pedigrees very closely and will only breed dogs who have a clean health history. There are even breeders who will register their dogs with OFA, however it seems most people are more “old fashioned” in that they just track whether health problems arise as opposed to actually testing. In addition to just tracking health, a good breeder will be able to look at dogs with a critical eye and be able to pick a sire and dam that are suitable to one another physically. Breeding two dogs who are drastically different will result in a wide variety of pups and will never “breed true”, regardless of the aim of the breeder. Also, small faults can be possibly “fixed” by breeding a similar dog with a much better structure in regards to the fault. This is really true of ANY dog breeding, and should be taken into account to matter what breeder you’re looking for. In regards to specifics, honestly I’d say the majority of breeders are really just looking to breed companions. This flies in the face of a lot of what is commonly known as “good” breeding (as in, breeding for work or confirmation) so one must be very choosey in picking a breeder. Some breeders aim for a high-content dog that acts and looks almost identical to a wolf, aside from their papers. It’s commonly understood in the wolfdog community that these animals are best left to people with tons of experience, and that it’s better to own Low-No content dogs first and “work your way up” to higher contents. Some other breeders are looking to breed pet dogs similar to the sledding breeds used, but are healthier because of their more diverse genetics. Still others actually will breed for work, whether it’s something like service dogs to bring into hospitals or nursing homes, or more actual work like Search and Rescue or Drug Sniffing. Amusingly enough, studies have shown that wolves in fact have a better aptitude for scent trailing which makes wolfdogs ideal for this type of work. All in all, it is vital to do research before even considering one of these animals, or you could wind up with a huge problem on your hands. It’s also important to get tons of experience with other Primitive Breed dogs so you have more of an understanding of the temperament you’re going to face. Wolfdogforum.com is a fantastic resource for anyone interested in these dogs as most of the members own wolfdogs of all different content and have tons of experience with them. They’ll also admit that pretty much all of them have been lied to about percentage in their dogs, so they know what to look for in a good breeder, and have reputable ones they can recommend (and know bad ones by name). Wolf Park also has a fantastic page with tons of info on wolfdogs/hybrids. A lot of the links are unfortunately broken, but there is still a lot of great info. Also, be sure to check out their articles. Speaking of percentages, that’s the last thing I’d like to bring up. Basically, everyone involved in these dogs is OBSESSED with figuring out percentages of “wolf blood” in their dogs. They do all sorts of complicated math to figure it out and use that to determine content of their dogs. Truth be told, however, percentages are all completely bunk. Based on variation in genetics, littermates can be so drastically different that people familiar with the breed will “identify” them as being different percentages if they were only shown pictures and not told the dogs were related. This is part of the reason it is VITAL to do research and understand that if you are unable to handle a wolfdog at its worst, it is irresponsible to own one even if you believe it to be a lower content. When all is said and done, there is little to no “sure thing” with these dogs since there is no standard for them to breed true to. They’re a bit like the Labradoodle of the Primitive Dog world- you may end up with exactly what you want, but you may also end up with the exact opposite. Wait a minute… You’re STILL considering a hybrid?? You Don’t Need a Wolfdog If… This is a fantastic thread on Wolfdogforum.com. The title’s pretty self explanatory, and I feel it’s necessary reading if you aren’t already deterred. Here are some picture references regarding "Percentages" Dog that would be considered Low Content:  Dog that would be considered High Content (supposedly 1/8 Great Pyrenees, if you could believe it!):  The following dogs are examples of how percentages are just useless. It's far better to judge based on outward appearance (it's generally understood that a wolfy looking dog will act more wolf-like, regardless of content, and the same is true for more "doglike" hybrids) rather than whatever number is on paper. These two dogs are both 50% on paper. The first was, for the most part, a good housepet, where the other was not:   These two dogs are actually littermates. Once again, the more "wolflike" dog was much harder to handle:   I'm guessing the final installment (including Czechoslovakian Vlcaks, Saarloos Wolfhounds, Tamaskans, and Northern Inuit Dogs) will be finished tonight since I have a lot of time, but I'm not making any promises to you heathens.  EDIT: I forgot a really great resource, a bunch of info compiled about every aspect of owning hybrids.
WolfensteinBag fucked around with this message at 01:13 on Sep 15, 2010 |
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Sep 15, 2010 00:22
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Way to make me look inadequate, Wolf!  My post writings are all kinds of jumbled and I feel like I'll never get them done (but yesterday was my anniversary, so I was busy, damnit!) So, uh...Here's a picture of Hachi to let everyone know I have been working on it. And how loving cute he was. 
paisleyfox fucked around with this message at 00:42 on Sep 15, 2010 |
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Sep 15, 2010 00:39
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There's a big-rear end Husky at my dog park (female, named Marlo) who the owner has mentioned is part wolf. The dog is freakishly large (but no larger than the other freakishly large Huskies at the park) and has a huuuuge stubborn streak, but is at its core "just" a dog. I love how just about any gangly primitive looking dog is at least "one-eighth wolf!!!11". Anyways, the dog's a sweetheart, and it gets along great with my dog. I love her. Great post, WolfBag. You did a great job. ETA: Also, I think it's interesting that you mentioned that the more "wolfy" looking hybrids tended to have the more wild temperaments. It makes me wonder if this mirrors the same things that happened in Russia during the silver fox study -- the foxes bred for softer, friendlier temperaments adopted more dog like features and coloration, where the more wild ones maintained their wilder appearance. The study suggests that the gene tied to the prolonged puppyhood most dogs experience is also tied to coat colour, ear carriage and tail shape. a life less fucked around with this message at 00:48 on Sep 15, 2010 |
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Sep 15, 2010 00:44
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a life less posted:ETA: Also, I think it's interesting that you mentioned that the more "wolfy" looking hybrids tended to have the more wild temperaments. It makes me wonder if this mirrors the same things that happened in Russia during the silver fox study -- the foxes bred for softer, friendlier temperaments adopted more dog like features and coloration, where the more wild ones maintained their wilder appearance. The study suggests that the gene tied to the prolonged puppyhood most dogs experience is also tied to coat colour, ear carriage and tail shape. Yeah, I always found this really fascinating and I wish there was some sort of class at a school nearby that I could take that talked about this. But I'm sure this sort of class would totally go into very advanced genetics and whatnot (but I think I'd still enjoy it.)
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Sep 15, 2010 00:52
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paisleyfox posted:Way to make me look inadequate, Wolf! hahaha I don't mean to make you feel bad!!! I've just been trying to blow through this stuff so I can get to my CsVs I'm sure you'll figure it out, that's exactly how I felt with all this hybrid stuff. If you want, you could always e-mail me what you have and I can try and help you figure out how to order things, but keep in mind I know practically nothing on all that stuff, those are your dogs. Also, happy anniversary!! quote:So, uh...Here's a picture of Hachi to let everyone know I have been working on it. And how loving cute he was. Oh man he is SO cute. a life less posted:There's a big-rear end Husky at my dog park (female, named Marlo) who the owner has mentioned is part wolf. The dog is freakishly large (but no larger than the other freakishly large Huskies at the park) and has a huuuuge stubborn streak, but is at its core "just" a dog. I love how just about any gangly primitive looking dog is at least "one-eighth wolf!!!11". hahaha I know!! People mention that a lot in those forums, that's where the "Low-No Content" came along. When enough generations go by, they really are just considered dogs (as in the case with CsVs) but unfortunately, awesome wolfy-looking mutt dogs aren't nearly as "cool".  It's really unfortunate because a lot of really great dogs wind up being put down because of their supposed "wolf content." quote:Great post, WolfBag. You did a great job. Thanks!!! quote:ETA: Also, I think it's interesting that you mentioned that the more "wolfy" looking hybrids tended to have the more wild temperaments. It makes me wonder if this mirrors the same things that happened in Russia during the silver fox study -- the foxes bred for softer, friendlier temperaments adopted more dog like features and coloration, where the more wild ones maintained their wilder appearance. The study suggests that the gene tied to the prolonged puppyhood most dogs experience is also tied to coat colour, ear carriage and tail shape. Yeah, that study is most definitely tied in. I agree, all of it definitely is interesting, and why so many geneticists are so curious about dogs and domestication of the wolf.
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Sep 15, 2010 00:56
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It's funny, because I spent about a year looking at primitive dogs, including wolf hybrids. I ended up using examples of "fake" wolf hybrids to find wolfy looking primitive breeds and mixes to look around for.
Warbadger fucked around with this message at 01:38 on Sep 15, 2010 |
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Sep 15, 2010 01:33
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Ok, so I'm definitely not going to have the rest of that stuff finished.  I made it through the CsV portion, but I was planning on posting that all together with the other breeds, so unless anyone's DYING to read it, I'm just going to wait. That was the biggest hump to get over, though, because honestly I don't have as much info on the other breeds, so it shouldn't take as long. I just do NOT feel like looking up any more reference material right now.Also, PFox, I'm really only getting through all this because it's been on my mind lately and a friend of mine posted this on facebook this morning. 
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Sep 15, 2010 03:06
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I hear your pain with people claiming every kind of wolf-content with their dogs. I'm good friends with a couple who adopted a gorgeous male husky, they claim that because he has one blue eye that "means he is part wolf!" (I have not the effort required to explain wolf genetics to them without getting kicked in the face by a very proud owner) Personally I wouldn't want anything higher content than CsV's - they are hard enough to handle and I would not enjoy trying to make a pet out of a skittish, shy creature like a high-content wolfdog. Raf's breeder used to own an F4 timberwolf x CsV (oh god why) and although she was gorgeous, she was extremely shy. He works with wolves so I can kind of appreciate him being knowledgable when it comes to wolfdogs and such, but they really aren't my cup of tea to see being kept as pets. WolfensteinBag posted:Sock Weasel, thanks for posting Hrafn!! It's so funny, he totally has his mother's face. Do you by chance remember who Fergus' owner is? He totally has his mothers bat ears at the moment. Haha no worries - reference is indeed known! I've been lurking here for a good two years or so without signing up, shame on me. His owner is a Mr. Church, I *think* he goes by Tiikani on the forums? His posts there may be a bit odd sometimes but he's a lovely chap, very knowledgeable about the dogs and always willing to give the owners of his litter a helping hand. It's always exciting to see people so interested in the breed If Hrafn ends up having good hip/elbow/eye scores a few years down the line we might consider having him sire a litter; there is a female his age up in Scotland who is from completely new bloodlines compared to the rest of the UK CsV's, which would be wonderful for the breed over here, but we'll see.
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Sep 15, 2010 10:34
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Sock Weasel posted:If Hrafn ends up having good hip/elbow/eye scores a few years down the line we might consider having him sire a litter; there is a female his age up in Scotland who is from completely new bloodlines compared to the rest of the UK CsV's, which would be wonderful for the breed over here, but we'll see. If you do decide to go this route, please, please go hang around those forums a ton and get some advice from people that are really into the breed (I also left you a PM over there ). Breeding isn't just about good hips and bloodlines, it's also about making sure two dogs are good matches together and will help eachothers' faults. It's also important to breed great examples of the breed, especially since you're in the UK and like you mentioned, you don't have a lot to work with there. I know you're saying you're shunned out because of where you're from, but they are really great if you're dedicated to the breed and making great choices and you will be able to find help. You're going to want to study the breed standard and really get a good eye for the dogs. Even though the breed is young, it doesn't mean it's a "go" to breed lots of litters, if anything you have to be MORE selective to make sure you're doing the best for lines in the future. I know he's still young, but do you have any stacked pictures of your dog? Also, make sure not just your dog has good hips and elbows, but also check the lines he's coming from. I know his mother has a "C" hip score, and Fergus' score isn't on the database, so you're going to have to do some digging to make sure the lines are healthy. Check siblings, parents, grandparents, aunts & uncles, etc, and work your way back. You'd also really want to consider testing for DM and Dwarfism.
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Sep 15, 2010 12:29
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Ru likes to sleep across the front door so nothing ever happens without him knowing about it. Eating bamboo and showing off his huge snowshoe feet.  
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Sep 15, 2010 14:47
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If you decide to get the tests done, I think at least DM needs to be a necessity. As you can see from the thread, there's a big push in the community right now to get as many dogs tested for DM as possible. One of those threads has a great explanation of how it works to be clear, a carrier, and affected.
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Sep 15, 2010 15:32
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WolfensteinBag posted:Man this looks a lot like Cosmo, minus his fashionable crimped ears.  I really wish I knew what Cosmo had in him for sure, I really don't think there's any Chow Chow in him, I do think there's border collie and possibly Husky/Malamute? And now WOLFDOG?!?! (j/k) We did finally take him to the dog park now, he's 6 months old so we still didn't know if it'd be too early, but he's been up to date on all shots and he's the most well behaved dog ever, and he had a blast! But he'd only play with dogs smaller than or almost as big as him. He's a little scaredy cat. A BIG rear end 5 month old Newfoundland Pup came in, and was the cutest thing ever, tried to play with Cosmo but he just hid behind mom and pops, until the newfoundland caught him off guard and chased him and cosmo rolled on the ground and cried...I'm sure he'll get better though. Anyway, here's pics of his favorite play buddy, Bruiser, some 4 month old mutt. (Lady claimed they told her part Chow but that COULDN'T be true because his tongue wasnt BLACK!)    Sorry if this post got too long. Great work on the Hybrids Post Wolfenstein, I've got even more reading to do now! (I love learning all this stuff about dogs.)
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Sep 15, 2010 16:38
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RizieN posted:I could stare at this picture for forever. They look like cartoons~!
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Sep 15, 2010 17:48
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Oh god Cosmo is adorable He really does look like a cartoon dog.rivals posted:If you decide to get the tests done, I think at least DM needs to be a necessity. As you can see from the thread, there's a big push in the community right now to get as many dogs tested for DM as possible. One of those threads has a great explanation of how it works to be clear, a carrier, and affected. ) Not something I would like to see in any breed, yet alone one just starting out like the CsV's are!There's breeding to further a breed, and there's breeding to make sure a breed stays healthy; to the standard; and doesn't have a tiny genepool. I would be aiming for the latter That's if we even breed him at all, I need to see how his adult temperament turns out like yet! I tried to stack him, much bribery was needed for his cooperation and these are still the best results.  Stupid stretching-for-treat legs.  Straightened up a little:  eta: Northern Inuits, oh dear. The 'breed' is a complete mess in the UK and I wouldn't touch them with a 10ft pole. My parents dog is technically an N.I. but I pretty much refuse to use the name and just refer to her cross. When they adopted her from the rescue we were non the wiser on their health issues. We managed to dig up her 'pedigree' from the people who bred her and good lord inbreeding. A supposed "metal plate in her leg from it being broken as a pup" - as we were told - turned out just to be really awful arthritis in her elbows at age 5. Sock Weasel fucked around with this message at 19:46 on Sep 15, 2010 |
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Sep 15, 2010 19:40
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As far as NI's go, I think they are pretty much a wreck everywhere I can't comment much on those pictures because I'm not super well versed in their conformation yet. Also, going through puppy development he could go in and out of good conformation, I think and it's difficult to tell without a proper stack. He's really damned adorable though.
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Sep 15, 2010 19:50
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paisleyfox posted:I could stare at this picture for forever. They look like cartoons~! hahaha I was going to say something along those lines, that picture is fantastic. :iamafag: Sock Weasel posted:
hahahaha Thanks for the effort! He is looking handsome, though, I bet if he were standing straight his angles would be pretty great (from the pictures I've seen, though, that's the only way I can learn about confirmation at this point, unfortunately. ) You'll have to keep posting pictures as he grows up and fills out!! rivals posted:As far as NI's go, I think they are pretty much a wreck everywhere Yeah, the NI part is pretty much going to be a longer version of, "They're a joke, don't buy one."
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Sep 15, 2010 21:28
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Growing up we owned a wolfdog. He was only about 1/4 but he still retained a lot of the wolf temperament. I wish I had pics of his mother (who we also owned but sadly died at 4 years old due to a vet's error in administering anesthesia - saddest ever) but she was even worse (but GORGEOUS). I have no idea how my parents came about owning Shannon, as they got her before I was born, but this was in the early 80s, so I'm sure people were doing some shady dog stuff back then. After Shannon died, one of my mom's friends who had originally taken Bear from us when he was a pup, gave him back to us because he was "impossible to handle". He lived to be 16 and turned out to be one of the most amazing, loyal assholes of a dog I've ever owned. He was about 13 years old here: We ended up getting one of his many pups (my parents were pretty wary against having him neutered after the anesthesia incident with Shannon and Bear was the sort of dog that ran away nightly only to return in the morning. We lived pretty much out in the country, but I do believe he managed to sire something like 5 litters between different dogs. Definitely something I do not approve of now, but again, my parents were super wary about having him fixed and this was the late 80s-early 90s. They do fix their dogs now, thankfully). Cubby was the absolute opposite of Bear: loving, dopey, goofy, etc... He was half Akita and somehow became the most roly-poly friendly dog ever.  Not really the greatest pic ever, but I think it was taken on a crappy one time use camera in like '94. I really need to scan some more pictures of them next time I'm out by my parents. Now I own a dog who most people assume is a wolfdog, but I highly doubt he is. I do think he has some Chow in him, but he doesn't really have any of the primitive temperament at all. I have no idea what he is, really, other than a GIANT DORK.   
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Sep 16, 2010 00:28
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rivals posted:"But I like when he jumps on me!" This is the worst. Cosmo's only 6 months and we're still training him obviously...but when people see how cute he is and want to pet him, he'll jump up on them and we'll say 'Down Cosmo! Down!' the reply? "Ohhh no I dont mind! He's just fine! He's SOOOO CUTE....what is he?!?' 'hes the cutest loving dog ever and he's still being trained, don't gently caress it up' (i dont actually say that but I want to)
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Sep 16, 2010 03:06
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stabbity posted:Now I own a dog who most people assume is a wolfdog, but I highly doubt he is. I do think he has some Chow in him, but he doesn't really have any of the primitive temperament at all. I have no idea what he is, really, other than a GIANT DORK. He looks a lot like a GSD, except his muzzle is a bit off. I wouldn't be surprised if he were mostly GSD with just a "splash" of something else like akita or lab, especially if he has a better temperament. He's super handsome, though. It's a shame about your family's dogs, and I don't mean any offense by it, but that sort of stuff is exactly the reason people have to be careful with wolfdogs. For one, there are a LOT of people who breed their dogs almost just because they need something to do, and people lying about content is rampant with BYBs (not your parent's necessarily, since you didn't say it, but seemed to fit with the topic). Also, your mom's friend not being able to keep her dog is a great example of how people get these dogs with zero understanding of what they entail. I mean, hell, people tend to get ANY Primitive Breed without knowing what they're getting in to, getting a dog with actual wolf content is so much worse. It's really a shame (in my opinion) that these dogs are becoming so popular, because there are vastly more bad breeders than there are decent ones, and 99% of the public is not equipped to handle them. It was really great of your family to take the dog back in when it didn't work out, too, btw.So, yeah, on a completely different note, I totally forgot to work on those other breeds last night.  I'm done making promises I'm no going to keep, I'll get it done when I get it done, I guess!
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Sep 16, 2010 12:13
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