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Kiri koli
Jun 20, 2005
Also, I can kill you with my brain.

Wow, this thread is amazing!

My husband and I just adopted a 10 month old American Eskimo. I had no idea they were a primitive breed, but it sure explains a lot. She's very smart and we're doing all positive training via her high food motivation. The only real problem we're having so far is that she is very protective, so barking inside at noises outside (we live in an apartment) and barking/jumping at people/dogs outside.

In the two weeks we've had her, she has improved on both barking inside and at people outside, though it's obvious that she is leash reactive and there are no fenced dog parks around here. I know that she can get along with other dogs because she did at the foster, but she tends to sniff then lunge at them before playing. When she's on the leash it's just impossible. She barks her fool head off and then I can't be sure if she's going to start playing or start biting.

When primitive breeds play rough with non-primitive breeds is it common for the other dog (who is usually really chill) to growl back? When she lunges, the other dog growls back and this may just be a 'calm the gently caress down!' growl or the other dog may be actually pissed, I can't tell yet.

It's only been two weeks though and we're having a blast with training. I'd post pictures if I knew what hosts are kosher these days.

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Kiri koli
Jun 20, 2005
Also, I can kill you with my brain.

paisleyfox posted:

Yeah, every place rivals suggested is good. I generally use Photobucket for the bulk, flickr if I already uploaded something on there, but it is usually a little harder to link images (they changed their sharing option, so it's a headache to find it sometimes.)

Go check out the two videos in the OP. There are a LOT of sounds going on, but they're all play sounds. It depends on the growl, too. Koji goes for more of a yell, personally. Just be sure you continue to train and socialize by shoving extra special treats in his mouth when he does something correctly. Koji barks every time he hears a door knock or a car he recognizes, but it's more of an alert than telling people to stay away, his tail always wags and if they don't get to him fast enough he cries. :3:

Does anyone know if linking from picasa works? I usually use it, but I'll use photobucket this time. Edit: on second thought, photobucket can bite me.

Her name is Psyche, partially because we both like greek history a lot and partially because my landlords require a doctor's note, so I have a note (from an RN, shh!) saying that I need her for my stress levels. :D





Psyche the Destoyer!! (she has the dog's tail in her mouth, which she ripped off after she gutted his head)





Her hobbies include destroying things and misbehaving and then looking supercute afterwards.

Kiri koli fucked around with this message at 17:24 on Sep 13, 2010

Kiri koli
Jun 20, 2005
Also, I can kill you with my brain.

paisleyfox posted:

And it's just so funny. Because many of these dogs aren't the lovey snuggle bunny kind of dogs, but Koji (and other Shibas I know) wants to be in the same room as I am in, but never all upons me. For example, right now I'm in the living room and he's sleeping on his bed across the room. If I'm in the bathroom for a while for a shower, he'll curl up outside the door, if I'm in the kitchen, he'll watch me from the hallway (though honestly, might be because of the food), and if I want to be in the bedroom, he'll want to curl up on his bed in there. Now, this isn't always the case, but it's just like he wants to get a feeling for where I am but never wants to cuddle or get really close, he just needs to know where his people are, in a way. At the dog park, he'll run back and check I'm still wherever I was, but won't come close enough for me to get him unless he's practically dead on his feet. ;)

My Eskie is like this too. Has to be with us, but will lay across the room and watch or take a toy and play with it within view. I noticed something curious though. She's really good about laying quietly when we eat at the table, but one day I wanted to eat on the couch and watch tv. So I tethered her to the couch (she's still a puppy and gets into trouble especially when I'm trying to eat) and brought my food over. She came over to investigate the wonderful smelling food and when I asked her to lay down, she got all excited and started barking for attention and nipping at my food/hands.

Well, I was all gently caress that, so I moved to the next couch where she couldn't reach. She HATED that and barked and howled at me like never before. We have neighbors, so when she was quiet for a split second, I moved back. She laid down then and didn't bother me again until I was done eating. Didn't even try again for my jambalaya. I think I'm insulted.

Kiri koli
Jun 20, 2005
Also, I can kill you with my brain.

paisleyfox posted:

Hey, auri, I just thought of something this morning. My dog and my friends' dogs get a salmon oil with their meals (one pump at one meal since they're smaller dogs) and we've found that it really does help out with the allergies. I know your dog doesn't really like fish, but maybe the fish oil would help? My friend has noticed when she forgets to give salmon oil to her allergy dog, he gets a little more itchy the next day.

I mean, nothing to lose, really, and it'll make your dog's coat even softer (as well as officially having said to help soothe itching). :3: We use the Grizzly Salmon Oil brand since it doesn't have the Ethoxyquin preservative. We just keep it in the fridge and Koji gets a squirt on his food in the morning.

Seconding this. Our Eskie was super itchy when we first got her, rubbing up against walls and doors all the time. The vet said that it's common for dogs to have minor allergies that are not food allergies and he recommended an omega-3 supplement. We give her a pill every day and now she just itches like a normal dog now and then. And her fur is super soft. :D

Vino, how long have you been working on the bell? We've been using a bell for a couple weeks now and she's just starting to get the hang of it. If she doesn't need to go too bad, she'll just run to the door and look back. If we come by the door, she'll ring it. A few times she's really had to go though and she rang right away. I think if you're just consistent with having the dog ring the bell before going out (even treat her for it), it'll work, it just takes time.

Kiri koli
Jun 20, 2005
Also, I can kill you with my brain.

We've done a lot of work on down, from getting the puppy to do it on cue to rewarding her for laying down at our feet when we're working at our desks or watching tv (she lays down, we throw a treat to reset her, then she lays down again...etc). Of course we kinda had to because she's a bouncy thing. When I get home from work, she gets so excited she bouncy straight up almost to my face several times before she remembers that I will only pet her if she sits, then all of the sudden she's gone and I have to look down to see her butt firmly planted on the floor. She used to jump and nip, which we would make her go down for until she stopped that. She anticipates and offers down for everything else though.

What I can't figure out though is how to get her to bow and roll over. For bow, I put my hand between her front legs and she bows, but then instead of getting back up, she plops her butt down. For roll over, I get her to down and then sweep my hand toward her side and reward her for flopping on her side. Eventually she did it fast enough to roll over and I treated the hell out of it...but the roll startled her and it keeps startling her every time! I don't think she's getting that that's the end goal.

Tricks are fun and I love everyone's videos. :D

Kiri koli
Jun 20, 2005
Also, I can kill you with my brain.

Wally P posted:

Oooo thanks for the information. This makes a lot more sense, given his bolting tendencies.


Just to warn you, the way the canny collar is made is that the part that's attached to the leash connects directly to the part that goes over the nose without other supporting attachments. The result for us was when we put it on Psyche it would just fall off her nose if we didn't hold constant tension on the leash.

Maybe we were doing something wrong or maybe it's because she just has a little nose, but we couldn't get it to work, especially since she hates head collars and will paw at them. We're trying a halti now and I'm shoveling cheese in her mouth to keep her from pawing at it...I hope it works, though I do worry about her taking off after a squirrel and hurting herself. :(

Kiri koli fucked around with this message at 22:42 on Nov 21, 2010

Kiri koli
Jun 20, 2005
Also, I can kill you with my brain.

Steve French posted:

The Cuteness

Yeah, you're right, something terrible will probably go wrong, so you should definitely send her straight on over to me before you get too attached.

(OMG, want to snuggles :3:)

Kiri koli
Jun 20, 2005
Also, I can kill you with my brain.

Pretty Cool Name posted:


Saw this as a related video to the clip of Ike in the snow and it's pretty much the best thing I've seen all day. :)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qvjJE9VUKIE

I have this conversation with my dog at least twice a day.

Kiri koli
Jun 20, 2005
Also, I can kill you with my brain.

SmuglyDismissed posted:

It took my dog a few hours to finally get the hang of the tug-a-jug. He has it down to 20-25 mins now. Unfortunately he's started chewing hard on the base and breaking them. The last one didn't make it a month so I've moved back to the Kong Genius

What sort/size of treats are you using? I generally use mine to feed Quid his kibble.

Psyche has broken two tug-a-jugs too. Which is too bad because she loves them, she flings them around by the rope to get treats out. But we accidentally bought one of the newer ones with a plastic 'rope' and it's too easy for her.

Is the Kong Genius actually a challenge? It looks pretty easy for small pieces like kibble. We're constantly trying to find something that will keep her occupied for more than ten minutes...

Kiri koli
Jun 20, 2005
Also, I can kill you with my brain.

SmuglyDismissed posted:

Unfortunately, it's not great. Quid eats so much that I have to use two of them (I wish I could borrow this dog's metabolism) but it probably takes him 15-20 max to get it all out. I've tried bigger treats and while they do keep him occupied longer, he dosen't manage to get them out unless I step on it to break them up a bit. It's hard to balance challenge and interest...

I figure it's better that letting him eat from a bowl but as a doggie distraction it isn't as good as I would have hoped. The tug-a-jug was a bit better but after finding the bottom part in pieces I am afraid of him eating the fragments. :(

Have you tried a buster cube? It's one of the few things Psyche hasn't been able to break and, though it could be harder, she really enjoys it. We give her breakfast in it. We just wanted a second option to keep her interest, but nothing has been hard/unbreakable enough yet.

Kiri koli
Jun 20, 2005
Also, I can kill you with my brain.

huskyjackal posted:

I like the Everlasting Treat Ball, I acknowledge it isn't for every dog (it certainly isn't "indestructible") but Diaz does great. She hasn't figured out how to pop the ends off, she scrapes them with her teeth until they're flat and it's MUCH harder for her to get them off. Basically they fall apart from the drool after a day or week or so, haha.

I was so excited to try this, I was like finally, she'll be occupied! I gave it to her and I swear I turned my back for two minutes. Turned back around, she had popped the treat out and was happily trying to eat the whole thing. So there went that. Now she's chewed off the plastic rim, so I couldn't put another one in anyway. I do put big pieces of kibble in the middle, but she's worked out how to pop those out too.

Would the Kong Wobble work on carpet? We don't have a big kitchen.

Kiri koli
Jun 20, 2005
Also, I can kill you with my brain.

huskyjackal posted:

Oh man, I read reviews of the Everlasting Treat Ball after I got it and soo many people complained of this. :/ Diaz managed to pop it out once and that was indeed frustrating, but thankfully she just seems content to scratch away at the treats until they're just flat discs. I gotta say I was not impressed with the rubbery material, it definitely had tears after one use but didn't fall apart. My dog doesn't really chew stuff unless it's, well, tasty and edible. I hear the orange one they offer is much sturdier, when I get some extra cash I'll probably buy it since I lost my blue one. Not pleased with the cost of those refills, but I put a bit of peanut butter on the kibble (then froze them so each piece was hardened) I stuffed inside and it helped keep her occupied for longer since it was harder to get out.
I think that wobble kong will work on carpet, Cassiope mentioned it dispenses faster on their kitchen floor because the surface is smoother so it rolls more.


This is so stupid but my dog made me :aaa:. I first gave her that Tug-A-Jug and she nosed it around, picked it up by the rubber top, and that was it. I would pick it up, turn it upside down and pull the rope out so treats fell out to "show her how it's done" (LOL ok I was impatient and trying to make them come out too). I gave it back to her and after she stopped handing it to me to get the treats she started to turn it upside down. Improvement! But still not effective enough to get those treats. I turn around and she's figured out that if she steps on the rope and pulls the toy upside down while holding the rope it will drop a shitload of treats. (see bottom right pic) :catstare: Dog too drat smart. What next, cracking safes and heisting jewels?

bonus: the sophisticated look where one eye doesn't quiiiitee wanna look the same direction as the other.

Bah, stop me from posting so many photos of my stupid dog, it's a bad habit!

No, no, no, more photos! :D That's exactly what Psyche does with her little tug-a-jug, turns it upside down. Chomping down on it like that is how she broke the plastic cap though. The first one we got her was the bigger size because we ordered from the internet...she couldn't fit her mouth around it so she would pick it up by the rope and fling it around! Surprisingly effective, but then the endcap broke against a wall...:sigh:

Kiri koli
Jun 20, 2005
Also, I can kill you with my brain.

Vino posted:

After months of trying many different things to get my dog to stop pulling on the walk I finally caved in and got a prong collar. I didn't want to use a prong collar because it looks downright inhumane and can hurt the dog and I didn't want the walk to be a negative experience, but I'd run out of options. I'd tried using food techniques and he started snubbing the food as soon as he realized there was a condition attached. I tried the gentle leader and he eventually learned how to pull against it too, and he reverted as soon as it came off. A bunch of other stuff too, including Cesar's techniques. The prong collar eventually worked and the key was using it only to correct when he started pulling ahead, alongside my usual snap (I snap at him to discipline him instead of the usual "no") I never let him get so far as to pull against it. Result: with relatively few corrections he stays by my side now and doesn't even try to chase squirrels, although he definitely tries to stare them down. Ideally after a while of training with the prong collar he'll get the idea where he should stay and then I'll be able to take it off. Hopefully.

Unfortunately a lot of times when a deterrent like a prong collar is removed, the dog is smart enough to notice the difference and can start old behavior again as up saw with the gentle leader. If I am occasionally lazy and just hook the leash to my dog's collar instead of putting her harness on, she will pull like crazy because I haven't shown her not to in that situation. Since you eventually want to take the prong collar off, in my opinion it's probably a waste of time to use it in the first place.

Did you try stopping or turning around and walking in the other direction when your dog pulls?

Kiri koli
Jun 20, 2005
Also, I can kill you with my brain.

Vino posted:

What's wrong with correction based training? I use what works. Sometimes rewards based training works, sometimes correction training works. What would you suggest?

The problem with correction based training is that a lot of the time people do not utilize it properly. If you correct a dog without showing it what it should be doing, then eventually you will merely suppress the dog's behavior through accumulated punishments. The dog hasn't learned anything and doesn't understand what it is doing wrong, but avoids the punishment in a very submissive sort of way. You can decide for yourself if you think this is traumatic for the dog.

There are times when corrections can work, but I tend to try to exhaust all reward attempts first and I don't like to use pain. I do tell my dog No! when she barks and such.

If your dog is just as happy to go in any direction (as mine is) then I suggest trying a dead stop when he pulls. Also, you could try finding an irresistible treat for walks. Remember that you need to start with no distractions and work up to things like squirrels and whatnot. You can even take your dog for walks around your home.

I think the regular collar/prong collar idea is pretty novel and may work, but personally I don't think I would ever use a prong collar. It would definitely be detrimental to my dog, who is already reactive.

Kiri koli
Jun 20, 2005
Also, I can kill you with my brain.

Nione posted:

My brother's husky mix bats at things with her paws like Kaiden does in that video, it's like watching my cats play. Is that a husky thing? Is there a specific reason for that behavior (like there is for the huskyball)?

Psyche does the same thing with her balls and other toys. She also holds things in her paws a lot, even when upside down on her back. Maybe it's a spitz thing.

Kiri koli
Jun 20, 2005
Also, I can kill you with my brain.

Sock Weasel posted:


Japanese Spitz



How can you tell this one is a Japanese spitz and not an American Eskimo? I've read a bit about both and can't figure out what the actual difference is...they look so similar and seem to have the same characteristics/temperament.

Thanks for the pics! I want to squish them all. :)

Kiri koli
Jun 20, 2005
Also, I can kill you with my brain.

cuntvalet posted:

From what I can see from good ol' GIS the only difference I notice is that their muzzles are a little wider.

Then again, this is compared to Roxy. The MINIATURE American Eskimo. So, really, she's the midget of the Spitz world.

One website I saw claimed that Japanese Spitz tails curl up on the center of their backs while Eskie tails drape to the side. That gave me a good laugh.

How much does Roxy weigh now? Psyche is at 23 lbs, the little fatty fat fat. At any rate, I think Poms are the midgets of the Spitz world. :D

Kiri koli
Jun 20, 2005
Also, I can kill you with my brain.

rebounded posted:





:3: Want to snuggle so bad! Thanks for taking her in. How old is she?

Seconding if you have any questions, there are a lot of great people here who can help you out. There's also a Dog Training Megathread for all your training needs.

Kiri koli
Jun 20, 2005
Also, I can kill you with my brain.

rivals posted:

:neckbeard: Kaidan lays like this all the time. I love it. He's also realized that when he rolls onto his back he gets lots of attention because it's cute as gently caress so he does that whenever he wants pets now. It's awesome because he does it to make us pay attention to him, but we pay attention to him to make him do it more :3:

Can I have some belly rubs pweaaaase???


IMG_1968.jpg by Kiri koli, on Flickr

Yaay, thanks in advance!


Time for bellyscratches! by Kiri koli, on Flickr

Kiri koli
Jun 20, 2005
Also, I can kill you with my brain.

Steve French posted:




Oh no, viscous shiba attack dog, run away!!

Husky + shiba = the cuteness.

Kiri koli
Jun 20, 2005
Also, I can kill you with my brain.

cuntvalet posted:

This probably sounds stupid, but do American Eskimos (and Mini Eskies) have undercoats? I've seen my boyfriend's mom's dog Calleigh (lab/husky cross) start blowing her winter coat (in easy to pull out chunks) but Roxy seems to be shedding as per normal...hair here and there but not like...chunks or any noticeable difference.

Psyche isn't blowing her coat either. I can barely get a handful combing her before she runs away. She definitely has an undercoat and is too hot, but it just isn't coming out.

Dummy dog, has to do everything the silly way.

Edit: I just remembered that Eskies supposedly come in short, medium, and long fur varieties. I think Roxy probably has short fur and Psyche might be short or medium. I've definitely seen Eskies that are much fluffier than ours. Maybe they won't blow their coats as spectacularly as others.

Kiri koli fucked around with this message at 04:11 on May 11, 2011

Kiri koli
Jun 20, 2005
Also, I can kill you with my brain.

rivals posted:

I think Riiseli has a Lapponian but breeds Lapphunds.

We should have a roll call thread where people post what pets they have or have had experience with. Optional locations for PI socializing. The Dorkroom people do it to set up photowalks and whatnot.

Kiri koli
Jun 20, 2005
Also, I can kill you with my brain.

paisleyfox posted:

Also, aren't Klees just like, Husky Eskie mixes? I'm not sure how long you want to jog for, but a full on Husky might be better for a jogging buddy. I haven't met many dogs that size that would be able to go for really long jogs. Hikes, sure, but jogs probably not so much. I don't know any breeders for them, since i think they are still sort of a new novelty breed. They also seem to have quite a few health issues for a relatively new breed...

Wikipedia says Husky/Eskie/Schipperke, if you can believe it. The extra curly tail does seem to indicate huskies bred with something more assholish. :D If they're anything like my (lazyass) Eskie, then jogging won't really be in the cards. Psyche is a sprinter, she'll run all over in short bursts, but sometimes she doesn't even want to walk for more than five minutes unless something interesting is up ahead.

Of course, I hate jogging too, so maybe she just takes after her (lazyass) owner.

Kiri koli
Jun 20, 2005
Also, I can kill you with my brain.

YAY, an Eskie puppy! :3: :3: :3: I'm the loudest Eskie owner around here and I'd be happy to tell you about them.

American Eskimos are a spitz breed and so they are closely related to a ton of other breeds ranging from huskies to poms to akitas. I'm not sure if they are less primitive than other spitzen (or even what that would really mean), but they do share a lot of the traits. They are moderate to high energy, very smart, and stubborn/independent compared to other dogs. Training them is definitely different than some other breeds because while a spitz is eager to learn, it will also go do its own thing if you haven't provided ample reasoning for why obeying you is more awesome than doing other stuff.

I don't have a really reliable source on their history, but everything I've read suggests they were bred as watch dogs. This means that they are typically weary of strangers, alarm barkers, and territorial. You MUST put a lot of effort into socializing your new puppy! An Eskie that is not socialized properly is more prone to have reactivity issues later than other breeds. They can become fearful and reactive toward strangers and strange dogs. They are also very sensitive dogs. Positive training techniques are a must for them. Clicker training goes over fabulously and really builds their confidence. NILIF is also great at helping you teach them boundaries and that they need to earn what they get with good behavior. Eskies don't respond well to punishment and will become distrustful if punished moreso than other more laid-back breeds.

Eskies were also popular circus dogs at one point, so if you or your mom have any interest in agility or other dogs sports, go for it when your puppy is old enough! My eskie is scary agile and loves climbing all over our furniture (and us). They have a ton of personality and are pretty much cute in whatever they do. This will help you during the rear end in a top hat puppy stage where your Eskie will attempt to drive you nuts. Stay patient and remember that training is supposed to be fun for everyone! I definitely recommend puppy classes, which will be good for socializing your pup and good for teaching you how to train!

I'd be happy to discuss more general Eskie things here. For training, we have a Training Megathread. You'll find a lot of good resources and guides in the OP. You've already posted in the puppy thread too, so more puppy issues can go there.

Also, remember to post pictures on a regular basis. Puppy Exploding Syndrome is a very real danger that is only avoided through copious amounts of puppy pics.

Kiri koli
Jun 20, 2005
Also, I can kill you with my brain.

tadnar posted:



Haha, already sleeping in awkward positions, I see.

We live in the northeast so it doesn't stay terribly hot for a long time, but Psyche does pretty well in the summer. She does get more sleepy and likes to sleep/lay in front of fans like so:


DSCF1834 by Kiri koli, on Flickr

We usually leave an AC window unit on for her on the hottest days, but that's probably me being paranoid. She's never shown any heat exhaustion on walks or playing outside.

Definitely don't shave Eskies and they need lots of water. I think they're prone to dry skin, so in dryer climates, fish-based food or fish oil vitamins are good for their skin/fur.

Having an Eskie in LA/Washington is a little sad though...one of the best things is watching an Eskie play in snow. So you guys should try bringing her to the mountains or something so she can romp around in her natural habitat. :D I can't wait until we get snow again this year.


White by Kiri koli, on Flickr

Kiri koli
Jun 20, 2005
Also, I can kill you with my brain.

Pretty Cool Name posted:

Socialize, socialize, socialize and be very careful with the kid and you should be fine, really.

I would add that, if you're getting an older dog, to make sure you select one with a known history that was well socialized as a puppy. It isn't trivial to socialize an older dog who wasn't socialized well as a puppy and may have hidden issues. Personally, I wouldn't adopt a primitive breed dog while I had a small child. Primitive breeds are in general pretty independent and can be very unforgiving. Not that they can't be great around kids, but I would just want to know the dog really well and to have their body language down cold before handling one and a young child. Actually, I'd feel the same way for pretty much any dog, but I'm super paranoid, so ymmv.

Kiri koli
Jun 20, 2005
Also, I can kill you with my brain.

Goetta posted:


e: Here is another picture


OH GOD, WHAT IS THAT THING!? PLEASE DON'T STEAL My SOOOOOOOUL!!!!

Kiri koli
Jun 20, 2005
Also, I can kill you with my brain.

Aravenna posted:

His rear end really seems to confuse him. This is usually how he lays down. His butt stays in the air for at least a couple seconds after his front end goes down.


Cute. :3:

Downward facing dog is one of my dog's favorite positions. She does it to get us to play with her, to stretch, while she holding stuff with her front paws to chew on it, while she's waiting for us to throw something, and sometimes for no discernible reason. My favorite is when she does a stretch, holds that position for a few seconds, and then her butt just fall down. Often followed by her flopping over for a nap.

And yet, I have not successfully taught her to bow on cue (or gotten a picture of it). I feel like a lazy owner. :D

Kiri koli
Jun 20, 2005
Also, I can kill you with my brain.

^^^ Yeah, that, in long form.

Actually, my Eskie is a complete couch potato. She sleeps most of the day and gets tired out by short play sessions or 45 minute walks. She may not be typical, but being active (like border collie active) is not usually the first thing you have to worry about with American Eskimos. :)

So I have an Eskie. Here she is:


IMG_0801 by Kiri koli, on Flickr

It's kind of hard to tell, but from what I've read, American Eskimos used to be called German Spitzen and were renamed during WWII. They are a different but related breed from Japanese Spitz (though I can't tell the difference by looking) and there could always be offshoots/slight differences for the German Spitzen in Australia, but overall, I think the descriptions are essentially the same.

Eskies do not make good first dogs, even compared to other primitive breeds. Here's what I wrote the last time I was asked about this:

me posted:

...they are high energy, very smart but also stubborn dogs. They are very good at learning, but not the easiest to train because they want to know what's in it for them, rather than just being pleased to please like other breeds that are regarded as easily trainable.

Eskies were originally bred as border patrols for sheep farms and as such they are naturally weary of strangers and are barky watch dogs. They are very 'talkative' and will use noise/barking a lot to try and convey things.

They are great dogs and I love my Eskie, but you should be forewarned that they are very touchy dogs. If not well socialized from a young age, they can more easily become reactive than other more laid back breeds. We found this out the hard way when we adopted an 8 month old Eskie who came from a family who did not train or socialize her and probably yelled and did other things to her. From all of that, she is now reactive to strangers and other dogs and we have been working for months to teach her not to be afraid of new people/dogs and bark/growl at them.

I would recommend, while reading about the breed, also read about positive training techniques. I love clicker training as my Eskie is very smart and it lets me teach her as fast as she can learn...

If your friend is going to get a puppy from a breeder, than she will be able to do the socialization stuff properly. This is ABSOLUTELY VITAL! The trainers I work with always say that they've never seen a normal Eskie. They are extremely easy to gently caress up because their nature is to be suspicious and paranoid and easily anxious/fearful if not made bomb-proof, which leads to reactivity. An Eskie puppy need to be properly socialized, under the guide of a professional who uses positive training in the case of your friend who doesn't sound very experienced. Your friend will have to be up on good training techniques. If she justs wants a cuddly friend, get another dog. If she's looking forward to training, maybe doing dog sports, and is into that stuff, then she may do okay.

Like I said, I love my Eskie and I think, if raised right, they are amazing dogs. Tons of personality, smart, agile and cute as all get out. Great for doggie sports and fun companions. But they are not easy.

Kiri koli fucked around with this message at 20:45 on Apr 29, 2012

Kiri koli
Jun 20, 2005
Also, I can kill you with my brain.

It's very confusing and I don't really know how to find better sources than just googling around, though I've done that a lot. I just recently came across the German Spitz of all colors thing. I think probably Eskies were brought over as German Spitz from Germany and then renamed during WWI (not WWII, I was mistaken about that) and maybe they were also bred with other breeds before becoming an official breed themselves?

That's what the AKC says anyway (though reading the temperament section, I'm not sure I believe anything they say).

Another fun fact: Eskies were apparently circus dogs during the early 1900's because they are so smart and agile.

Kiri koli fucked around with this message at 14:19 on Apr 30, 2012

Kiri koli
Jun 20, 2005
Also, I can kill you with my brain.

huskyjackal posted:

I love this post, my only Eskie encounters were as a small child, either running for the life of my achilles tendons or leering away from a short lip-commissured growling dog at my feet or on the adjacent chair. It was always typical case of "old lady's single dog, never gets out because she doesn't so it hates and is scared of everything". I bet a socialized one would be SO nice to pet! All that fluff! I<3 Psyche photos.

She is amazing to cuddle with and pet. I am totally spoiled, petting a short furred dog is just not the same. Everyone we introduce her to is always so disappointed that they can't pet her. My mom keeps reminding me that I need to fix her because next time she's going to pet that dog!

It's really unfortunate that people get them without knowing what they are in for and then inevitably end up with a messed up dog. :( And then the whole breed gets a bad name.

Kiri koli
Jun 20, 2005
Also, I can kill you with my brain.

wtftastic posted:

Regardless of what her friend chooses to get I think a rescue or fostered dog with known personality, among other things, might be a good choice for a first dog.

This is not without risks because a former family can lie about the dog's history and some fosters can and will lie to get a dog adopted. Not that all rescue dogs have problems, but with a breed that's prone to problems like Eskies, you need to be more careful. We knew going in that my dog's history was not great (and it was probably worse than we were told), but the fosters did downplay/leave out some things, like her leash reactivity. Psyche ended up being a much different dog than what we were told and what we saw at the foster place. I'd rescue an Eskie again (I'm crazy, I know), but I would definitely be more choosy about history and less trusting of what the foster people say.

An older dog is a safer bet, but unfortunately, a lot of people don't go for older dogs.

Kiri koli
Jun 20, 2005
Also, I can kill you with my brain.

xun468 posted:

Well, finally worked up the guts to post. Hi guys!

This is our eskie Boris when he was a puppy :3:



And here he is now


After reading this thread I guess Boris is a weird eskie. He just looooves people and rarely barks at anything. Unless we're watching. Then he shows off and chases the squirrels for once. :argh:

ESKIEEE!!! :3::3::3:

More pictures please.

Kiri koli
Jun 20, 2005
Also, I can kill you with my brain.

ButWhatIf posted:

So...thanks to one of my bosses going on week-long medical leave, I am going to be bringing home a 10-ish week old Akita puppy for board-and-train for three weeks.

Any insights into specific things I should focus on? We're definitely going to go heavy on socialization.

Thirding millions of pictures.

If there's one thing I have learned from my primitive-pain-in-the-rear end breed dog is to never let them take an inch because they will take 80 bajillion miles and then steal your lunch. Don't let them get away with not doing stuff they know how to do and never let them dictate how things are going to go. You can shovel in all the treats you want to make a positive association, but if you let them stop you or go much slower than you should, you'll never get anywhere.

In other words, in between all the fun tricks, work on handling handling handling.

Kiri koli
Jun 20, 2005
Also, I can kill you with my brain.

mydogwatchestv posted:

This is Boo trying to get the ladies. Also he went for 2 runs today, oops?




I love this picture because if I didn't have any size reference, this could totally be my 25lb Eskie. Same white fluffyness, same adorable 'how the hell is that comfy' napping position, same little happy thoughts smile. :3:

Kiri koli
Jun 20, 2005
Also, I can kill you with my brain.

mydogwatchestv posted:

Yeah! A lot of people think he's an eskie until they seem him in person. Then they think he's a mutant eskie. I want to see photos of your dog!

Will do! Unfortunately, I don't have any pics of her sleeping because she always jumps up when I try to get the camera out.


IMG_3638 by Kiri koli, on Flickr


009 by Kiri koli, on Flickr


Time for bellyscratches! by Kiri koli, on Flickr


IMG_1966 by Kiri koli, on Flickr


IMG_3902 by Kiri koli, on Flickr

Kiri koli
Jun 20, 2005
Also, I can kill you with my brain.

mydogwatchestv posted:

Boo LOVES the snow and does this exact thing. Whenever it snows, his face is absolutely covered because he won't stop rolling around. Your dog is way too cute.

Thanks! I can't wait for it to snow. Psyche just goes crazy and amuses herself, which basically never happens. My favorite is when the snow gets too deep for her, she digs her own trenches and then basically races up and down them, and if you call her over she'll run over and fling herself at your feet and end up half buried in the snow.


IMG_0722 by Kiri koli, on Flickr


The Great White Land Shark by Kiri koli, on Flickr


IMG_0773 by Kiri koli, on Flickr

Kiri koli
Jun 20, 2005
Also, I can kill you with my brain.

Koivunen posted:

I've never had experience with dogs that are afraid of a specific gender before. Is this something they adapt to once they live with their new owners for a while, or will he always be afraid of my boyfriend?

Is Goliath afraid of other men at the shelter? Unless there's a history there, there could be other factors (hats, sunglasses, body language, size, etc).

It's impossible to say for sure whether the dog will "get over it" for sure or not, but as was said above, there are things you can do to make the dog more comfortable. Your boyfriend will have to be on board though. It sounds like Goliath is mostly shy and shuts down when startled or anxious. Keep in mind that this behavior may change when he enters a permanent home and gets comfortable. It may get better, but it could also get worse.

There are definitely things you can do that will give you a good chance at the best outcome. The first step was outlined above. Treats should rain from the sky when your boyfriend is around. A further step I would take is to read up on dog body language. Dogs have calming signals, which they give others to ask them to back off or leave them alone. If you both become familiar with these signals, then Goliath will be able to communicate to you when he is stressed and needs space, which will, along with the treats, go a long way toward making him feel safe and changing his attitude (plus teaching him that he doesn't need to resort to more drastic measures like cowering or other inappropriate signals). Also, your boyfriend's body language is important. Timid dogs will appreciate it if you are turned to the side instead of facing them full on or not being reached for or stared at or other things like that. Everyone wants dogs to love them and to enjoy being pet and playing and whatnot, but Goliath may need space and predictability when it comes to your boyfriend for a while.

Kiri koli
Jun 20, 2005
Also, I can kill you with my brain.

Aravenna posted:

Then if he still doesn't get it, he tries sitting harder. I don't know how you sit harder, but Quaffle sure is trying to figure it out.

Psyche has two versions of advanced hardcore ireallyreallywantit sits. One involves her tail vibrating so fast that her butt can barely stay on the floor and the other is an extended sit pretty where there is a non-negligible chance of her falling over backwards as she tries to sit prettier.

Needless to day, they both involve me laughing my rear end off.

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Kiri koli
Jun 20, 2005
Also, I can kill you with my brain.

Koivunen posted:


Anyway, we need some advice. We live in a house with a basement, main level, and upstairs. Goliath won't come downstairs to the main level, even with treat bribes. His food and water dish are down here, but I've only seen him drink water twice after walks. He has only eaten a small bit of kibble.

If we get him on a leash he will follow us downstairs, but we spend most of our time down here and wish he would come hang out with us on his own. As soon as the leash is off he is running upstairs again. Is this something that he needs to get used to and do on his own, or is there a way we can get him to come spend time down here?

I think it's too early to tell if this is a real issue or just part of his settling in phase. As long as he is not scared of the stairs (sounds like not, since he will run upstairs on his own) and not having accidents/getting into trouble, then I wouldn't worry about it. He might just want some space and have picked out a safe spot. My dog was the opposite, she couldn't be alone for a second and didn't go off by herself until several months after we got her. A more normal adjustment timescale is probably a few days up to a month.

If he needs to be supervised and you want him downstairs because you need to be there, then you could use a babygate, but I would make sure he had a nice spot he can go to and not be bothered.

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