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If the comic had committed harder to 'this cult is psychologically loving up the robots/numans, because they're being taught to receive death as a gift and pain as a blessing, to love the weakness of the flesh in ways that humans would find really distressing' - that would make this much stronger. Because the thing Robot's been doing is taking his own weird and horrible relationship to pain and flesh, and projecting it into the entire cult and onto Kat as though she intended it. As the rest of the numans are in fact totally boring normal humans, except they also worship Kat as the angel, this loses all its teeth. Her divinity just gets accepted and the looming, terrifying figure of the machine angel cut loose from all human morality... never actually mattered. Because Kat's actually fine, nothing is interesting, and her total disregard for people, souls, and meaning is in fact what the comic seems to be agreeing with at this time. I will never get over Annie calling myths and stories 'older technology' - it communicates that the technology/myth dialectic of the comic is in fact not real and doesn't matter, because Kat can just be the synthesis by being So Good At Technology that the myth stuff gets in line. She's the Elon Musk of Godhood and the comic is basically convinced this is a great thing.
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Mar 30, 2024 19:14
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Joe Slowboat posted:If the comic had committed harder to 'this cult is psychologically loving up the robots/numans, because they're being taught to receive death as a gift and pain as a blessing, to love the weakness of the flesh in ways that humans would find really distressing' - that would make this much stronger. Because the thing Robot's been doing is taking his own weird and horrible relationship to pain and flesh, and projecting it into the entire cult and onto Kat as though she intended it. uuuggggggh I just realized that this ties in to how Annie has decided to accept her own pain and abuse as a blessing
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Mar 30, 2024 20:03
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Oh my god, or how Tony is resigned to living with his mental cage, and therapy or a support group are never even mentioned as possibilities? Jones's "have you tried talking to her" and "idk just learn to live with your grief without being consumed by it I guess" are infuriating on their own, but even more so in the grander context of the "ha! what mental health care???" theme that is emerging here. And his bff Donald deciding that the best thing to do after witnessing Tony verbally abuse his daughter in Don's family home in front of his wife and child was to show Annie her father having a breakdown in private and telling her "but he's so saaaaad, okay bye". (edit: a repeat of him telling Annie about Tony being a general anxiety disorder having teen in microsat 5 when she felt devastatingly abandoned and unloved by her father and her being so starved for connection and desperate to believe her father is good that she is satisfied with the anecdotes of the previous generation getting up to shenanigans) And the weird argument in mind cage with jimmy jims and his green girlfriend where the only two options are "let them be a close family, do not intervene in any way shape or form" vs "remove child from we-will-not-call-him-abusive dad" and not... see how you can help as friends? As mentors of said minor? Nothing? what Was the comic always like this and we didn't notice or...? isasphere fucked around with this message at 20:41 on Mar 30, 2024 |
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Mar 30, 2024 20:30
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i mean gunnerkrigg is in its weird pocket dimension thing and i can't recall any evidence they have even advisors on staff, let alone proper therapists
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Mar 30, 2024 20:34
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Catgirl Al Capone posted:i mean gunnerkrigg is in its weird pocket dimension thing and i can't recall any evidence they have even advisors on staff, let alone proper therapists I mean, yeah, but why is asking for help from his friends not even discussed as an option Tony could take? Why is "I do not have human emotions" Jones the only person allowed to seriously talk about this with Tony in the comic? Is this a sort of "it is forbidden to intervene in private family matters" cultural thing I'm too dumb to get or?
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Mar 30, 2024 20:37
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isasphere posted:I mean, yeah, but why is asking for help from his friends not even discussed as an option Tony could take? Why is "I do not have human emotions" Jones the only person allowed to seriously talk about this with Tony in the comic? Don't forget that the forest woman talked about how Annie just needs to buck up and be happy her dad is even here!
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Mar 30, 2024 20:40
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idk that kinda seems like looking at a point the webcomic's trying to make about the inadequacies of the court and making it about the author instead. you can argue it's being done badly but the fact that it's a mess of an institution held up by thoughts and prayers that constantly fails the people in it is a pretty frequent recurring theme
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Mar 30, 2024 20:41
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CodfishCartographer posted:Don't forget that the forest woman talked about how Annie just needs to buck up and be happy her dad is even here! I had forgotten that entirely  I just can't get over how the comic used to be so good at sympathizing with Annie's feelings and the moment Tony's feelings were shown, now she has to suck it all up and grow up like the rest of us.
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Mar 30, 2024 20:44
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Catgirl Al Capone posted:idk that kinda seems like looking at a point the webcomic's trying to make about the inadequacies of the court and making it about the author instead. you can argue it's being done badly but the fact that it's a mess of an institution held up by thoughts and prayers that constantly fails the people in it is a pretty frequent recurring theme These aren't the failings of the Court, though, they're the failings of the friends of the protagonist - and these failings are more or less called out as Good and Correct by Jones ('you seem perfectly mentally healthy') and Annie's little filibuster in The Mind Cage, and by the elf in that same chapter getting to rhetorically dunk on all these adults who go 'him neglecting his daughter by not being present was bad, and him emotionally abusing her while being present is also bad' with 'you don't want him to be here and you want to yell at him for not being here, you're so contradictory!' The comic is not, in fact, talking about the Court's lack of therapists when it proposes that Annie and Tony's relationship as presented is healthy, and that Annie just needed to become more mature and grow up and accept this shabby treatment.
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Mar 30, 2024 20:49
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There'd be kinda of a kernel of a interesting idea if Robot's beliefs were widespread enough among the robots that Lana's injury at Loup's hands was interpreted by her as a sign of divine favor: suffering and pain is the gift of the gods. It'd make their relationship even more hosed up and foreshadow Robot's weird-rear end poo poo
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Mar 30, 2024 20:58
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Joe Slowboat posted:These aren't the failings of the Court, though, they're the failings of the friends of the protagonist - and these failings are more or less called out as Good and Correct by Jones ('you seem perfectly mentally healthy') and Annie's little filibuster in The Mind Cage, and by the elf in that same chapter getting to rhetorically dunk on all these adults who go 'him neglecting his daughter by not being present was bad, and him emotionally abusing her while being present is also bad' with 'you don't want him to be here and you want to yell at him for not being here, you're so contradictory!' Yeah, this. Jones is portrayed in the comic as being immensely wise and almost absolutely impartial (almost because she does have some sentimentality for people). She's presented in this chapter as the one person with the most lived experience and context on Annie's situation to know what to do. Because we have this long segment where she is carefully collecting information and different perspectives before she makes a judgment on Annie's situation. And in the end she renders her verdict that Annie is perfectly fine at the end of Mindcage. The whole chapter is more or less set up like a trial for Tony with Jones as the ultimate arbiter. And sure enough we've gotten no updates or changes in Annie and Tony's relationship since then, cause as far as the comic is concerned its a settled matter. It would be much more interesting if Annie was getting poor support/bad advice because of the court's dysfunctions given how it consistently fails the people it's supposed to support. And her well-meaning friends failing as well because they are too caught up in their own baggage to recognize how bad things really are with Annie. It wouldn't even take that much to get there since the seeds of that are planted throughout the early comic. But the conclusion of Mindcage pretty much shut the door on all that unfortunately. JuniperCake fucked around with this message at 21:23 on Mar 30, 2024 |
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Mar 30, 2024 21:21
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Robot having angst or fear about Kat, Annie, and Shadow's reactions to all this is a fine idea. Him descending into more paranoid delusions as the momentum behind the cult builds and he's raised up as the head prophet of it, etc. Except there's not enough groundwork laid in the comic before this. We get a bit of the "It was worth it!" stuff, but nothing about how Kat will totally read all his memories (or his fear of that, however possible it actually is), or how his thing with transforming all the robots before himself was not a completely selfless act. Which stinks because that'd be a compelling tension to add in earlier. I don't know if it was really the plan all along, but bringing it up now ends up coming off like a back-filled justification that'll be cleaned up and tied off immediately with the end of this scene.
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Mar 30, 2024 21:25
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Rat Patrol posted:I just don't buy any of this. I don't get why I'm supposed to think anything of this
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Mar 30, 2024 21:29
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Nuns with Guns posted:Which stinks because that'd be a compelling tension to add in earlier. I don't know if it was really the plan all along, but bringing it up now ends up coming off like a back-filled justification that'll be cleaned up and tied off immediately with the end of this scene. A conclusion which, I can't stop saying, is happening in a magic montage-universe that exists to close up major plot points succinctly. And despite this being the longest running plotline in the entire comic, it's being wrapped up as the sidearc (robot) of a sidearc (not!zimmyote) of the main plot (loup, the main character). And I can't get over that. I do creative stuff, finally hitting a conclusion you spent so long writing up to is incredibly satisfying. To finally get to write the scenes you spent months or years planning? It's an incredible feeling. I cannot imagine concluding something you've spent 15 years building to as a series of impressionistic montages as a side note of someone else's story.
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Mar 30, 2024 22:34
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Joe Slowboat posted:If the comic had committed harder to 'this cult is psychologically loving up the robots/numans, because they're being taught to receive death as a gift and pain as a blessing, to love the weakness of the flesh in ways that humans would find really distressing' - that would make this much stronger. Because the thing Robot's been doing is taking his own weird and horrible relationship to pain and flesh, and projecting it into the entire cult and onto Kat as though she intended it. You know, if the natural endpoint of Robot's cult of robots/numen is the devotees basically become Cenobites and that makes Kat finally take this poo poo seriously, I would be fine with that.  "We will experience whole new levels of pleasure and pain just as you designed us for, creator!" "Haha, jee-HOLY gently caress WHAT ARE YOU DOING?"
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Mar 31, 2024 03:29
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Annie taking a long hard look at herself in the mirror: "Oh... Annie..."
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Mar 31, 2024 20:11
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How much of this comic is Annie being a gormless bystander while things happen I wonder
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Mar 31, 2024 22:43
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I have a feeling that Robot's entire arc is going to be wrapped up in "Love makes you act in strange ways", and that is it. No consequences, no growth, no change, just a platitude from one of the best chapters in the story. Those words started as a non-explanation from some confused and distraught girls learning about some heavy, disturbing history. But after Tony's arc, I have to assume they are actually an explanation and an excuse and all the justification anyone needs.
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Apr 1, 2024 12:02
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HERE LIES ROBOT HE NEVER SCORED
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Apr 1, 2024 13:27
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feetnotes posted:HERE LIES ROBOT HERE LIES ROBOT HAHA, JEEZ
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Apr 1, 2024 13:28
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I'm still liking these pages. Robot tried to use his robot-hood to self-decieve himself ("Everything I'm doing is for the greater good of Kat, I'll willingly sacrifice myself at the end after everyone else is made new") running headfirst into the inconvenient truth that... whoops, despite him being a robot, he's not an emotionless, soulless machine, and now doesn't want to martyr himself, but has done a LOT of poo poo. Or to paraphrase Alice isn't Dead "I always knew I would spend my life alone and unloved. I had planned on it. The first time I saw I'm hoping that Robot does see some form of repercussion, but also that Shadow stays with him.
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Apr 1, 2024 13:51
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I wish I'd actually seen the two of them spending time and getting close and what they were up to and how robot hid this stuff from shadow. Instead we get a montage of moments we've already seen and a bunch of text about the other stuff that was totally happening just off panel, honest
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Apr 1, 2024 14:01
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Robot can have his tragic fall and be "punished" by serving as the afterlife guide for the new people. The goddess in her infinite wisdom and mercy will appoint shadow as his eternal companion and they'll become this weird creepy goth thing that takes them to the ether. I think the weird demon shape and barnacles are there to stay, robot won't get to go through the transformation process.
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Apr 1, 2024 14:12
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Rat Patrol posted:I wish I'd actually seen the two of them spending time and getting close and what they were up to and how robot hid this stuff from shadow. Instead we get a montage of moments we've already seen and a bunch of text about the other stuff that was totally happening just off panel, honest I wish we'd seen like, a hint of barnacles growing on a rock under Robot's angel robes during the she gave us an ocean chapter to hint at his deal too
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Apr 1, 2024 15:07
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isasphere posted:I wish we'd seen like, a hint of barnacles growing on a rock under Robot's angel robes during the she gave us an ocean chapter to hint at his deal too Why do you think Robot was wearing such massive robes in the first place? But yeah, if there was some sign of the barnacles in the back shot, that would have been some good foreshadowing, but I get the feeling the idea is that the wings are ALSO the barnacles?
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Apr 1, 2024 16:23
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Out of curiosity, have we seen any use of barnacles in the art previously? It would be neat if a couple of barnacles happened to be on the ship, and it could be one of those innocuous details where of course barnacles show up on ships that's fine, but in a reveal like this it would show Robot's influence on that whole ordeal.
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Apr 1, 2024 18:21
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Rat Patrol posted:I wish I'd actually seen the two of them spending time and getting close and what they were up to and how robot hid this stuff from shadow. Instead we get a montage of moments we've already seen and a bunch of text about the other stuff that was totally happening just off panel, honest Yeah like a lot of things it would have had much more impact if he wrote this story out instead of having some character tell us all about it in some cliffnotes version after the fact. It could have been really good actually, oh well.
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Apr 1, 2024 18:47
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Rat Patrol posted:I wish I'd actually seen the two of them spending time and getting close and what they were up to and how robot hid this stuff from shadow. Instead we get a montage of moments we've already seen and a bunch of text about the other stuff that was totally happening just off panel, honest Gawd agreed. We got a small glimpse of that in New Data, which was.... almost 9 years go. It was adorable and told us a TON about their relationship and what they've been doing in only 5 pages. We've been subjected to Loup/Lana for years. Edit: Handy link https://www.gunnerkrigg.com/?p=1609
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Apr 1, 2024 22:56
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catapede posted:Edit: Handy link Oh, THAT'S what that corner was! https://www.gunnerkrigg.com/?p=1613 https://www.gunnerkrigg.com/?p=2905
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Apr 2, 2024 03:17
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Lmao I didn't even notice. Good catch!
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Apr 2, 2024 12:42
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Last Visible Dog posted:Oh, THAT'S what that corner was! Oh my god is she Robot?
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Apr 2, 2024 13:59
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Demiurge4 posted:Oh my god is she Robot? Don't be crazy. Clearly she's Shadow.
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Apr 2, 2024 14:57
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FlocksOfMice posted:This, like, by the dramatic angles it's being suggested the robot cult has been a Bad Thing this entire time, but every time Kat has ever interacted with it it's with bemused acceptance of what is clearly her due. She doesn't even like... there's never, I don't think, even a storyline where she's like "Hey Annie the robots are like really obsessed with me and call me their Angel and they ALL do what I say, is that weird?" She just accepts it like "Ah, yeah, the robots all love me and do everything for me devotedly. Sure, that's what I have coming to me, makes sense." Going with this, the person who should really be mad at Robot is Annie since by making Kat a god she got pulled back into being a psychopomp, but that requires Annie to do something. Also a much better turn here would be Robot raging at the new god since she's literally achieved apotheosis from his work and she's just going "oh ok  " about it.
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Apr 2, 2024 15:02
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lol the one flaw in this plan, oh jeez
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Apr 3, 2024 09:19
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Gravitas Shortfall posted:just hurry up and make Robot the psychopomp of the New People
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Apr 3, 2024 09:21
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I think this would have more impact if it was discovered by Annie putting two and two together instead of being a straight confession.
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Apr 3, 2024 09:23
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LOL Robert J. Human died exclusively to rob Robot of this moment. That's why it felt so awkwardly horned in and cast aside, it was the build up to this as a punchline. Ok!
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Apr 3, 2024 09:27
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I can't honestly tell if I'd be having the same reaction to this in a better written story or I'm just too far gone on this comic to give it any benefit of the doubt like someone has this big long multi-week crime/betrayal reveal including their own fantasy of martyrdom and last meal of steak and potatoes, and the only response from the person listening after all that is "well ackshually the court doesn't allow steak for last meal requests 🤓" and the martyr's like oh no my fantasy unravelled i am undone what was the point of all that crime if I can't have the steak
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Apr 3, 2024 09:47
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LMAO *THAT'S* YOUR loving POINT OF ENTRY? THAT'S THE ONLY TIME YOU THOUGHT TO SPEAK UP AND SAY SOMETHING THAT ISN'T "OH, ROBOT"? "um sorry to intrude on the fantasy of your own death but you'd actually be the second dead guy"
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Apr 3, 2024 10:04
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Looking at her dumb background ‘-‘ like how are we meant to take this seriously as a heartrending self-destructive reveals when there’s multiple characters making goofy and uncaring faces at the back.
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Apr 3, 2024 10:32
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