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Honestly I'm kinda surprised robot didn't make top ten
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Oct 7, 2020 15:03
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Frankly I'm surprised anyone thinks the top 3 aren't Annies and Kat in some combination
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Oct 14, 2020 01:04
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Gravitas Shortfall posted:*banging on table* Boxbot, Boxbot, BOXBOT
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Oct 15, 2020 16:30
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#1 is that one kind of obscure character you always forget about and then when you see them you're surprised you forgot about them. You know the one
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Oct 15, 2020 16:41
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Kennel posted:It looks like he has pretty much disappeared a few years ago, but there's fan uploads: https://kiwisbybeat.netlify.app/minusarchive.html Minus was amazing, but I really am sad that we lost Great! when Kiwis by Beat went down. It was such an amazing webcomic about accepting that you can't always fulfill your dreams, and learning to accept that and be happy anyways. It's really the only piece of media I've seen that really directly addresses that instead of "if you just keep trying, you'll achieve your dreams!" Yeah it's not as magical of a message, but it's so much more realistic and useful. Arguably it's an even happier message, since it's essentially saying "even if you don't achieve your dreams, you can be happy!"
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Oct 24, 2020 02:28
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Daktar posted:
Yeah I feel like there's a LOT going on behind those words
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Oct 26, 2020 16:37
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Captain Oblivious posted:Kat is the most boring character in the entire comic and every chapter that heavily focuses on her tends to suck the life out of the comic. Ok
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Oct 28, 2020 04:32
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Captain Oblivious posted:Get this. I've got this idea, a nerdy gamer girl...who has the BIGGEST science brain. And she's like, bisexual, so everybody can fetishize her very big gamer brain. Science is cool right fellas? I too have read a book or two in my time. And she's like SO good at the sciencing that she's a GOD and doesn't even know it lol. Her greatest weakness? I would say that it's probably the awareness that she could solve so many of her friends problems with her very big brain (the biggest). It's tragic, really. Ok
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Oct 28, 2020 23:31
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Was about to ask why Annie doesn't just say "hey dad I'd like us to talk and open up more with each other" but then realized she's a teenager and probably doesn't really get the concept of communication like that yet
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Nov 11, 2020 20:29
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Jan 11, 2021 23:18
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Something I love about this comic that's pretty low key is the placement of text bubbles. So many web comics (and even print comics) don't put much thought into their placement, and just throw them wherever there's space. Gunnerkrigg is one of the few that seems to really put thought and effort into their placement to ensure they flow and are easily readable in the correct order. They work with the art towards the flow of the page to lead the eye around properly. It's something that bothers me when it's done poorly, so it's nice to see it done so well.
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Feb 17, 2021 22:35
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So who do we think Mr car guy is? He's the only one with a face, and he seems to have Zimmy's eyes. He also looks concerned for her. Of course, this is trusting Zimmy's perception.
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Feb 18, 2021 07:21
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coolusername posted:I suppose my issue (as it stands) is we had a potentially really interesting thing - The two Annie's in heated emotional conflict and lashing out at each other in a way that really seemed like it could become an interesting character moment (some of the best emotional moments have been with Annie contending with her emotional issues: re Surma, like the bit in the comic with the tree) and instead of getting the resolution it just all got resolved off-screen. So like even if they split again, what happened here was camera panning away from interesting thing for small talk and then 'whoops it got resolved' chapter end. It just feels like it introduced an element/conflict a few pages before then tossed it in the trash. Am I the only one who thought them lashing out at each other was solely due to zimmy universe just messing everything up? I didn't really get invested in that argument cus it didn't seem particularly "real"
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Mar 9, 2021 22:55
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jng2058 posted:What bugs me about it is that Annie should be kind of pissed by all this. Not only had she been getting along with herself, but no one asked her if she wanted to be fused back into one person. I dunno necessarily if she should be pissed, but yeah I do agree it feels weird that she seems accepting and serene about it. I'd expect there to be at least a LITTLE internal conflict at this point, if only because "aww, I enjoyed having myself there to talk to." Granted we might see this in the next chapter, but we saw her literal first impressions of this and she seemed just a-ok with it. I think a lot more people would be more accepting of this change if there was a bit more conflict to it, rather than just happy acceptance. Hopefully this is Tom setting us up to knock us down though? Bussamove posted:I feel like the comic peaked with The Stone. I came into the comic fairly late - when I caught up they were just starting the wisp hive, so in terms of this comic I'm REALLY new to it. However, I really enjoyed the overall plot of the comic - we need to free Jeanne, but then it turns out Jeanne was a safeguard preventing Coyote from accomplishing his goals. It felt, to me, like Loup's introduction was kind of the beginning of the end. I expected that the comic would be heading in the direction of a conclusion, because it felt like that was a decent story to wrap up. The two Annies was a really cool concept and felt like it was a good way to force Annie through some character development on the way towards the finale of overcoming Loup and maybe also some Court bullshit. However, it kind of feels like the comic has sorta spun its wheels since then? We need to get the goose bone and the lake water because...well, Loup told us to I guess, we don't really know why aside from keeping Loup from attacking the Court. Our reward for getting the water was getting to see Coyote again which was dope, but now we're kinda just fartin around til we get the bone. Or was it the other way around? I admittedly can't really remember. Finding these things doesn't really feel that compelling compared to trying to save Jeanne. Of course, my perspective on this may be off since I binged the vast majority of the comic and didn't have to wait week-to-week for earlier stuff. I suppose quite a lot of the pre-loup content felt similarly wheel-spinning, but back then the comic felt more like a slice of life in this weird court and occasionally the forest. Now that we've got huge chunks of the court destroyed, poo poo from the forest attacking, and Loup threatening to attack if they don't find the things, the chapters which don't directly further the plot beyond development for a character / providing a few extra hints at a mystery (but not solving it) feel more inappropriate.
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Mar 10, 2021 18:53
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I'm still of the opinion that there has never been an Annie that belongs in any timeline. Ghost dude's dialogue simply said neither belongs, that doesn't mean one ever belonged in the first place.
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Mar 10, 2021 23:11
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You know, rereading The Stone, I realize a few things about Jones that I didn't before. I think she definitely does have emotions, just maybe very very subdued ones / ones very different from ours. She contradicts herself throughout the chapter in subtle ways. She mentions that she prefers to let humans discover history and science on their own, yet explains to Annie her own history and the theory of how the ether worked to create her. She says she has no emotions at all, and yet she says she'd be honored to take on the names of people she's been close to. Yeah maybe she just did that to make them happy, but why would she want to do that if she had no emotions? We see her promise people that in private, sometimes as they lay dying - she had no reason to tell them that or even honor her promise of she truly had no emotions.
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Apr 9, 2021 17:13
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Kennel posted:Making up false stories about honoring dead people is pretty good strategy to win people's trust, if you are a psychopath rock creature. You know this is a good point. Wonder if any of the stone is true
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Apr 9, 2021 21:19
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yeah actually they will posted:I think most of the comic is made up pal gently caress
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Apr 10, 2021 08:10
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FronzelNeekburm posted:Well, both are from a different timeline, or are otherwise "wrong" in some way: It's fully possible the "original" Annie was never supposed to be here either. The assumption made with this page is that the original was correct, but these two are both incorrect, however we never received any confirmation of that first half.
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May 7, 2021 20:07
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Niavmai posted:but the arbiter says it's temporal affairs! I'm not sure if it's a joke about dumb corporate bureaucracy, where each department thinks an issue is another department's problem, or if it's just that it truly isn't related to either temporal affairs or the arbiter. The simplest explanation is just that the arbiter didn't know what happened and assumed temporal affairs, but then it turns out it wasn't temporal affairs either.
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May 10, 2021 17:39
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a mystery, wrapped in an enigma, wrapped in a 16 year long webcomic with no end in sight.
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life_source posted:The Omega Device, Coyotes Plan, the entirety of Loup and how much he sucks, the possibility of Kat's divinity being evil, Antimony being in service to/enslaved by the psychopomps. There are still several big "problems" still present in the comic, but we're in that part of the book series where we are wondering why we're reading about how much Sam wants to cook potatoes the right way. There are plenty of hanging threads and mysteries still, but the comic isn't really "about" those. The characters' only real current goal is "get the things back for Loup" which will accomplish...something. Maybe helping fix the forest?? But who knows. The main characters don't even have a means to get to the last item, right? We're just waiting for the forest folk to carve it outta the tree. I honestly can't remember if it's the goose bone or the lake water they still need. So with no clear goal and no clear motivations, it just feels like the comic is spinning its wheels a bit. We've had some cool revelations and plot developments, but also it doesn't feel like any of them were really driven by the actions of the characters. Kat did some cool time travel poo poo, but also SHE didn't really do it, her mom's friend just showed her the Norns and they did it. The two Annies got resolved (maybe), but THEY didn't merge together themselves, Zimmy just randomly did it. What plot progressions are made feel like they're accidents or happen through no fault of our protagonists.
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May 19, 2021 04:58
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Lmao I forgot the shadowmen took the last item. What chapter / page was that again? The comic has been far more aimless than most overall, but there's always been at least a clear goal that people have been working towards, even if there have been plenty of distractions along the way. This is the first time since maybe the start of the comic that it feels like there's no clear objective. I'd be fine with almost entirely slice of life stuff with no primary direction, but I feel like the character interactions and conflicts just aren't really there for that sort of thing at the moment.
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May 19, 2021 05:52
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Thanks! So yeah, I guess we're just sitting around waiting for them to do something.
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May 19, 2021 06:53
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Bell_ posted:"Jones is old" crowd checking in. While this long monologue very well could lead to something justifying it, it's worth keeping in mind it's bad for the comic's format. Week-to-week manga series, such as in Shonen Jump, are very concerned about multiple levels of pacing based on different types of readers. They need to keep the following groups of readers happy: 1) Week-to-week readers. Interesting things need to happen each weekly chapter, to entertain the people who read as it releases. 2) Readers that pick up in the middle. Small narrative breaks / climaxes / cliffhangers need to happen every 5 or so chapters. This helps people who start reading midway through a series have a good starting point, who don't want to read possibly hundreds of chapters in order to follow along. This also makes for good episode breaks if the series takes off and gets an anime. 3) People who only buy the physical compilation books. Big narrative climaxes or cliffhangers need to happen every few dozen chapters, for when the series gets an independent physical release. These physical releases compile a bunch of chapters together, so the author needs to ensure the pacing makes for a thrilling ending in these books that leaves the reader wanting to buy more. 4) Readers that only binge read huge sections at a time. There needs to be an overall satisfying narrative for the people reading in bulk online, possibly after the series is completed. Gunnerkrigg passes number 4 pretty easily I think, though it's not done yet so who knows - however bulk reading the series is enjoyable so pass. Tom's summer breaks are also excellent examples of number 3, though admittedly I haven't read just the physical books so I'm not sure if they exactly work well. How gunnerkrigg does "chapters" fits number 2 well enough, if someone joins in the middle of a chapter it won't be too long before a new one starts, giving them a fresh new story to follow with if they don't want to reread the entire series. I think where Tom struggles is in number 1. Where manga series have to make each chapter interesting, Tom has to make each individual page interesting. A boring one here or there isn't the end of the world, in fact they can be relatively common as long as narrative progress is consistently made, but overall you need to make sure the week-to-week readers are happy. Overall Gunnerkrigg is fine with this, but it's definitely the weak point. Tom likes to have some setups over the course of several pages / chapters, and while that can be very satisfying when it's paid off it can be boring or frustrating before then for the weekly readers. Yes, it can be hard to make every page interesting and keep good long-term pacing, but it's worth pointing out that Tom is the one who sets the release schedule. If Tom wants to release a page every few days, it might not be the best decision to go for as many long-term payoffs as he does. I know Monday Wednesday Friday is a webcomic gold standard, but I think Gunnerkrigg is well-established enough to break that mold and go for something that would better benefit the narrative. Imagine if every Friday we got three pages at once? Or every month we got an entire chapter (or maybe half a chapter) all at once? A think a lot of the complaints and concerns shown in the thread would vanish, or at least be lessened, because then it doesn't feel like UUUUGH THIS MONOLOGUE JUST WILL NEVER END, because we'd get the whole narrative of an entire chapter at once, or at least most of one. Even if it's just weekly three page releases, then Tom could take more care to ensure 1/3 of the pages have something more interesting and unique happen to make up for any relatively mundane dialogue that's needed to move the plot.
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May 19, 2021 16:52
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Imagine if Tony had the mind cage talk with Forest Annie instead of Jones
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May 25, 2021 01:02
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Let's pretend that the next page or two somehow tie everything together and make everything that's happened in the chapter so far worth the long build-up - that the pages upon pages of monologuing was a set up that is perfectly paid off. It still doesn't change the fact that the experience of reading live as the pages post is hurt by this format. Even if the format was 100% necessary for this theoretical payoff, and said payoff could not have worked without it, there's still a solid argument to be made that this was a poor choice because of the impact on page-to-page readers. Maybe it'll be the best payoff in the comic so far, but that doesn't change the fact that this is turning off a lot of fans and may not have been a smart choice.
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May 25, 2021 07:01
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PubicMice posted:A take: GunnerJ posted:I, too, am at the bargaining phase.
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May 28, 2021 23:43
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To be fair though, I can totally buy this being Annie trying to convince herself as much as anyone else. I really hope that something does come of this, as otherwise the story is basically saying "if you have some kind of social anxiety, you can't improve. Just hope other people accept it." which isn't the healthiest mindset. Like, I don't know if it would have made anything better, but Annie easily could just say to Tony "hey I know you struggle to talk to me, I understand and am willing to work on it little by little with you" or something similar. Of course, Annie has always struggled with telling people her feelings, but she seems pretty in-touch with this one specifically based on what she just told Jones.
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May 29, 2021 01:07
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Mimesweeper posted:i think its presenting it as deeply hosed up and unsettling, despite what annie is saying about how its all fine, and that's the intent. The problem is in how the comic portrays this information. The situation is deeply hosed up, yes. However, the comic portrays it with bright, friendly colors. It uses attractive and interesting composition. It has the protagonist front-and-center, smiling and looking confident. Tom knows how to use color and composition to relay a message. If he wanted to show that this was hosed up and not a good thing, he would. He could use dark dreary colors, he could have more of a wild look in Annie's eyes, he could have the camera be pulled back and distant from her, and maybe not show us her face so her real emotions are unclear. E: also worth noting that when talking with Tony, Jones interjected asking why he felt the way he did, offered advice, and gave her opinion on his situation with her wisdom from thousands of years of working with people. Meanwhile with Annie, she didn't say anything for seven full pages, and then just reacted with positive support of Annie's statements. Admittedly that support may not be sincere, but we were just shown that Jones was willing to pry at the heart of perceived problems and offer advice toward them. By NOT doing so with Annie, the comic communicates that she thinks Annie is correct, and Jones has so far almost always been a source of true and trustable information. CodfishCartographer fucked around with this message at 05:36 on May 29, 2021 |
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May 29, 2021 05:20
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V. Illych L. posted:i think that using a text as an exegesis as to the opinions of its author is bad practice Yeah definitely. While I think the comic is giving some very questionable messages, it shouldn't be assumed that these messages are necessarily what the author believes, and it's also fully possibly they're unintentional.
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May 29, 2021 18:29
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Niavmai posted:y'all are just straight up insulting tom as an author and artist at this point. Sorry I should have clarified, I don't think it's unintended. Tom is a good author and I think it was intentional - my previous post notes how Tom is skilled enough to know how to portray things how he wants to. That being said, it is possible it was unintended. Not likely, but possible. Tom is skilled but can make mistakes.
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May 29, 2021 19:04
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Niavmai posted:my problem with it is that this is a TERRIBLE coping mechanism for someone who is still living with the parent that neglected and then abused her. "i guess he just can't help it when he hurts me" is a truly heartbreaking thing to see in anyone, especially a child with their parent. It's also pretty bad advice for people suffering from anxiety. "There's not anything you can do to improve your condition, just hope people deal with it!" Of course "accept someone for who they are" is a good message, and not all anxiety can be / needs to be cured. That being said, if someone is suffering from severe enough anxiety that they shut down when attempting to speak with their daughter, they probably need to seek help to learn how best to handle the situation. "Just hope your daughter learns to accept you!" is bad advice.
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May 29, 2021 20:03
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Yak of Wrath posted:I guess my issue is we went from two Annies on the brink of clawing each other to death over their messed up family, to a single Annie who is now fine because (???). I'm really confused people keep bringing this up. It seems extremely obvious to me that they were ONLY at each others' throats because of Zimmy's influence. https://www.gunnerkrigg.com/?p=2410 and https://www.gunnerkrigg.com/?p=2411 establish that people in this situation were lashing out uncharacteristically due to Zimmy's influence. On https://www.gunnerkrigg.com/?p=2424 Reynard explicitly calls out how out-of-character he's acting, again due to Zimmy's influence. The Two Annies had never fought about Surma before, and before their fight were completely fine. Like, I don't know how it could be more obvious that them lashing out at each other was purely due to Zimmy's influence. Yeah maybe those were deep-seated feelings, but they'd never been touched on at all beforehand so it seems a bit unlikely. Would a page or two of them apologizing to each other after this have been good? Sure, I guess, but ultimately I doubt it would have added much. If this conflict had been built-up more beforehand, and the Zimmy-verse had forced the conflict to a head, then yeah this would be a lovely way out. I don't think the two Annies had ever mentioned Surma to each other on screen even once before this, nor had either had any internal monologues about it or anything. The conflict came totally out of nowhere, after it had been clearly established that Zimmy's influence causes people to lash out unnecessarily - it's pretty clear to me that it wasn't something they were "really" having a conflict about, just was somethin Zimmy was causing. e: to be clear though, I do think this would have been an interesting development and character conflict, and would have liked to see it elaborated on, but it never really came off to me like the comic wanted to explore it. CodfishCartographer fucked around with this message at 20:55 on May 31, 2021 |
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May 31, 2021 20:52
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I guess I just never expected that argument to be elaborated on further, and am surprised so many people think of it as a dropped plot thread.
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Jun 1, 2021 02:18
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Bonster posted:It came up before: Admittedly I forgot about that, but also they seemingly resolve things later. If anything, the Zimmy argument kinda just feels like it's digging that previous argument up simply because Zimmy's trying to lash out, and that's the form it took. Or maybe I'm just trying to justify the abruptness of the merge lmao
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Jun 1, 2021 06:52
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dragon enthusiast posted:death flags being thrown up all over this page I can't help but feel like this is building up towards a finale, though I hope I'm wrong. We just "resolved" a bunch of loose ends (tik toks, two Annies, Annie's relationship with her dad) and now everyone is gathered together to face Loup.
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Jun 4, 2021 16:03
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DontMockMySmock posted:I think the answer is simpler - they weren't so obviously sinister 20 years ago. Honestly though, to the average person, how does the court act particularly "sinister"? From a layman's point of view, things were chugging along like always, then a lot of trips started happening between the forest and court for a couple years, then suddenly there are bigass trees in the court and monsters attacking and everything is hosed. If anything it's the forest that likely seems sinister, and the court noble. Suddenly big trees showed up (obviously the forest's doing) and the brave warriors of the court are trying to protect the people from these hostile invaders. It wouldn't surprise me if this was more or less the view held even by named adult characters we know, except with maybe a bit more "well the court is doing a bunch of secret stuff, but it's probably for our best interests." Watch there be a surprise twist where the court was actually doing good this entire time, and they only appear sinister thanks to seeds of doubt planted by Coyote.
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Jun 13, 2021 08:41
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Niavmai posted:i don't really care if it makes sense or not, i'm mad that people know more about the comic than i do because they read an interview, or completely unrelated text. things that haven't been revealed or explained in any way in the actual text of the comic. just poor form. disappointing. Yeah I agree with this. I've always been under the impression the headmaster was the leader of the court - or if not, a very high-level member within it. Him seeming bored during all his interactions with the forest made him come off like someone who had such grandoise plans that all this "Dealing with the forest" stuff was beneath him. Jones even points out that he sees the inhabitants of the forest, Coyote and Ys included, as just annoying animals. Him not being an important member of the court seems like a pretty huge revelation to just tuck away in an interview somewhere outside the comic.
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Jun 13, 2021 18:50
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What are those court folks doing in the first panel, anyways?
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Jun 18, 2021 18:28
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GlyphGryph posted:She could have just said she didnt do it and the court didnt do it and didnt know why it happened. If she was gonna lie she could even say she assumed it was something Loup did for some unknown reason. To be fair, this does kind of seem like something a hotheaded teenager like Annie would do. That being said, I'm not sure I fully buy the reading of her saying this to tease him or establish dominance or whatever. That might just be cus the recent chapters have shaken my trust in the writing.
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Jun 23, 2021 17:49
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