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Otcho
May 4, 2012

Griff M. posted:

I'm working on my first feature, and so far I'm off to a rough start.

I think this idea is a diamond, but I feel like the writing isn't stepping up to the plate. It's not terrible, but I just don't think it's quite "there" yet. Obviously there will be LOTS of drafts, but is this feeling of "meh" normal? It's seriously bumming me out.

I recognize that feeling, too. Every step I take I'm unsatisfied with it and just can't seem to do my wonderful, profound idea justice. Either some of the beats are just not as good as the others, or some character can't manage to be as much part of the story as the others, and in the end some stupid line or cut I can't seem to get on paper properly.

The way I see it, it's a constant bummer and in the end I can never be as excited as I was before I started writing. It's only when I end up in deeper discussions about the script with directors and producers that I usually start understanding that 95 percent of the stuff I wanted to be in there, actually is.

When you're done writing, go back to the notes you had describing the diamond idea you had. It's usually a lot less profound than the script you ended up with.

But then again, that might just be me, I'm a notorious perfectionist.

(Hi, thread!)

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Otcho
May 4, 2012

I'm plotting, re-plotting and re-re-plotting my graduation script for my film school. I can't let myself start writing scenes until I've mapped everything out or things'll go all over the place. I've got to focus on the technical side first or else I'll be unable to filter good from bad ideas.

All in all it's going reasonably well, but I'm not really good at it and probably never will be. Not an excuse to quit doing it, though, but it's kind of depression I always have to go through this phase of doing something I can't do to do something I'm good at. :)

Otcho
May 4, 2012

screenwritersblues posted:

I decided that it was in my best interest that I went back and restarted my script from square one. The idea had changed a lot since I started to write it, but luckily I wasn't too deep into the story, thankfully, but it had to be done and I like this story a lot better than the one I was working on.

You'll run into that problem a lot if you don't plan in advance. Just open a second word document, name it "GOOD IDEAS" and put everything not remotely interesting for your story's structure in there. That way you won't run into trouble halfway.

Otcho
May 4, 2012

Slowly gaining ground on my graduation script. It needs to be good so I spent a lot of time rewriting the outline. I'm really happy with how it turned out - but that doesn't make the first draft of my treatment any less lovely.

I'm too much of a control freak to be a writer, really.

Otcho
May 4, 2012

bushisms.txt posted:

I wrote the whole thing on my phone

First screenwriting advice: invest in a keyboard. They're pretty cool - I'm using one right now!

Otcho
May 4, 2012

If TV's your thing, https://sites.google.com/site/tvwriting/home has a pretty good collection of TV scripts.
(It even has the Terra Nova bible, which always gets a chuckle out of me)

Otcho
May 4, 2012

Sporadic posted:

I know the rule is normally no images ever but the last time I posted about purchased script having images, the response wasn't that negative towards it.

My script has a fantasy element and I was thinking about commissioning one of my artist friends to draw a world map. It would save me alot of time trying to describe everything but would it be enough to cause somebody to stop reading it?

Why would I want a world map? How would it be relevant (like, for shooting, casting, editing...)?

I don't want to sound like a prick, but I'm exactly in the same boat as you are (screenplay set in a fictional world) and I've been banged over the head with the fact that I should never ever need to insert a world map. And if I do, the need should emerge from the story.

Take game of thrones for example: okay, there is some kind of world map in the opening credits, but the only relevant information you need to get started is: the wall is up north and there's a sea separating two continents. Whether King's Landing lies south of Winterfell is interesting, but not relevant.

Unless your producer is going to be the biggest goon ever, I think he's not going to care. I've personally had more luck selling these kinds of stories with two-three subtle pieces of art so people know what the look and feel of the thing will be like.

(that said: I'd advise making a world map for yourself, but you probably already know that :))

Otcho
May 4, 2012

Working on developing sitcom constellations and settings at the moment. Anyone have any experience with this and care to give me some pointers to maximize the potential funny?

Otcho
May 4, 2012

STORY is pretty much the only thing you absolutely have to read.

Other than that, I mainly read dramaturgical analyses of other films. If you speak German, there's a book named "Drehbuch Reloaded" I found to be pretty cool. Basically it's a dramaturgical analysis of films like Amores Perros or Eternal Sunshine.

But then again I'm a sucker for structure tables. Might not be your beef.

Also, read scripts. Get started here: https://sites.google.com/site/tvwriting/home.

Otcho
May 4, 2012

There's some unproduced screenplay awards, maybe you can find some of those screenplays on google.

Seriously, though, read a screenplay and then watch the movie. It's more fun than you think - it's like reading a book and then watching the film, only they didn't leave out any of your favourite parts. Alternatively, you could read a TV script and then watch the show.

Otcho
May 4, 2012

By the way, not sure if this was posted yet:

http://www.filmbuffonline.com/FBOLNewsreel/wordpress/2013/01/02/read-30-2012-oscar-hopeful-screenplays/

Oscar-nominated screenplays.

Otcho
May 4, 2012

Just do it. Try to keep your text as short and snappy as you can. Don't get lost in description. Once you finish, use the time with your creative headache to format that puppy.

Otcho
May 4, 2012

Hey guys, I like reading books on screenwriting when I'm not screenwriting.

Has anyone read Vorhaus' "The Comic Toolbox"? And: should I?

Otcho
May 4, 2012

Golden Bee posted:

Screenwriting books are a great way to avoid reading screenplays, or writing screenplays. If you read 3-4, you can sidestep a writing career entirely.

Not an answer to my question. I read and write plenty of everything.

Otcho
May 4, 2012

Pudgygiant posted:

Let's say I have a really good idea for a TV show, good enough that even people who hate me think it's a good idea, but I have neither the talent nor the patience to write a treatment for it. Where can I go from there? Are there some cheap hacks out there (or on here) that, given a rough framework and a couple hundred bucks, will do a decent enough job on a treatment that I can push it?

Unless you've already got 5 hits under your belt and can get a great writer to write it for you, you're better off writing it yourself. Like every creative business, we've all got ideas.

Otcho
May 4, 2012

Mike Works posted:

More info: the protagonist is a guy in his mid 30's who's stuck in life, wants to be ambitious, but is going nowhere. Still lives with his parents. He decides to take this job overseas hoping that it'll kickstart his life and ambition. It's in this new country that he meets the unique girl this girl who has strengths where his weaknesses are, and vice versa. The script contrasts the guy's established North American family live, job, and ideals with her own (Asian) perspective on those same themes. That's why I want to establish his bleak way of life before he moves (and I'm thinking he'll be moving back home in the third act, possibly with her).

Try asking yourself where the story lies: is it a romance with an assassin, or is it a coming of age/emancipation story? If it's a romance, the former life in the US seems irrelevant; if it's coming of age, the assassin thing might even be a good mid point.

But I could be way off-base here, as I can't possibly know what's in your head.

Otcho
May 4, 2012

Sataere posted:

I've noticed everyone universally agrees not to start a story with a flashback. What about starting a story in the middle? Just one scene that sets a tone of where the movie is going to end up.

Example: Guy is being chased by terribly bad men, who corner him in an alley. They menacingly approach and he slowly wets his pants. Then cut to the start of the movie.

Is this basically the same thing as a flashback? I have two different openings for the project I am working on. One starts off like that example. Another one is just a page and a half of this guys life sequentially getting worse the older he gets.

I'd hate to seem contrary, but it seems to me that each story has a way of being told, and the execution is going to be more important than the method of delivery. Kiss Kiss Bang Bang starts with a flashback, and it certainly works well for it.

So tell me why I am an unsophisticated lout who doesn't understand the mechanics of what I am trying to create. :v:

I really just want perspective. Am I just being stubborn? I think what I am working on will be very marketable. A sweet, funny story. I just don't feel I should get hung up on worrying about it being perceived as trite, when in the long run, it can help make for a better, more organic story.

I guess I don't really worry about how I am getting there, just trying to get there in the most engaging manner possible.

(Sorry, I ramble. You should see my first drafts)

The thing with starting with flashbacks is you're trying to get people invested in a character through an event in the past instead of the present. It generally works if you do stuff like Spielberg and reveal the backstorywound in the first scene.

What you are talking about is actually a trick often used in biopics: You start with the second act turning point (i.e. the protagonist's worst possible moment) and then have the movie be one huge flashback to the life story. It's actually quite common.

Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind does this, for example, by starting with Clem and Joel's second encounter. (okay, added difficulty with that movie is that it's actually tricking you into believing it's the chronological start, but that's a different story)

The important part is the decision which moment to start the movie with. Generally speaking, if this is a three act hero's journey, you're best off taking the 2nd act turning point because that's what's usually done.

But then again do whatever you want. Rules are meant to be broken, yaddayadda.

Otcho
May 4, 2012

I probably posted this one before but it's gotten even more awesome now that they uploaded the entire third season of Breaking Bad:

Welcome to TV writing nirvana

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Otcho
May 4, 2012

Judging by the first six pages, you really, really ought to truncate. There's a lot of "did you hear?!" and talking about stuff instead of stuff actually happening. Leave that stuff out, figure out how you can do it more compactly. Get to the conflict as soon as possible - six minutes in and I only know there's a dude with panic attacks who wants to make a movie. But he's not making one yet.

I think your descriptions are fine, but your dialogue is off - both in what they say and the way they say it. Try reading it out loud, you'll see what works and what doesn't.

E: for example, has any mom ever asked their son what they are up to? Do they really want to know?

another edit: 8 pages in and the conflict is established. "Dude needs to make the best movie ever to stay in college. Problem is: He's got massive panic attacks." You can establish that in two scenes.

(Not going to go into whether that premise is interesting or not, but I'm not feeling your main character's conflict, a guy who keeps repeating what he can't do isn't that sympathetic, at least let him try and fail massively so we know he's not faking it and actually feel his pain.)

Otcho fucked around with this message at 17:46 on May 15, 2014

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